[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

1mirg

Sikon wrote: »

My Sub is already canceled, especially as I saw the new "class sets" which only prefer DK. Dragonknights set is most overpowered other class sets are useless. The Nightblade set especially is a joke. Wear it if you want to lower your DPS

I did try to warn everyone but most people don't use eso logs. so i'll just prove to you and everyone that yes, NBs are a dead dps class to play.


now if you excuse me I got things to do outside of eso

KaironBlackbard

woah, ok, so this thread is old and still in use, ok.
Well, I like the change to siphoning strikes.
I'm saddened at the loss of Reave.
I like that more abilities are able to grant their effects when slotted on either bar.
I wish certain guild and world skills did the same, such as Magelight, Expert Hunter, Revealing Flare, and Temporal Guard.

I'm still miffed about how I can be attacked while UNdetected.
If someone's using a detection potion to see me, even when invisible, it should notify me that I'm detected.
Also, I don't like that detection potions ignore invisibility. Not only does it make cloak useless, it makes Invisibility potions useless.
If someone invests time, resources, and skill points into making invisibility potions, they should get some usefulness out of them, not get treated as if they never used the potion at all.

KaironBlackbard

Also, if a Vampire is tier 4 with unnatural movement, and they use invisibility and then start sprinting, it shouldn't instantly remove the invisibility since they will become invisible anyways.
I'm a Nightblade Vampire.
Basically I just want this perk added to Unnatural Movement:
Can use invisibility while sprinting, or Activating Sprint does not remove invisibility effects from you
Another benefit of this is if you chug an invisibility potion, sprint across a gap, and then stop, you will remain invisible because the potion was not removed from you. No more wasting invisibility potions while being tier 4 vamp with at least 1 rank in Unnatural movement.

KaironBlackbard

@1mirg Nightblades aren't very good at healing. Templars outheal us by a long shot.
Nightblades are good at making 75k damage attacks. I've yet to make it that high but plenty have done it to me.
I don't really see many Nightblade tanks, so I don't know how good they are at it. Mine's not doing so hot.

Theist_VII

@KaironBlackbard what?

Nightblade healer has replaced Templar in an optimal trial setting since the Pillager set dropped from Dreadsail, Update 34.

Sure Nightblade tank could use some help as they don’t have a reliable health-based burst heal or a great in-class defensive ultimate, other than that though, the class as a whole has access to AoE Minor Vulnerability, AoE Major Expedition, AoE Minor & Major Cowardice, an AoE stun in-class, Major Evasion without having to medium armor tank, and great sustain now with Siphoning Strikes.

Theist_VII

The only area Nightblade is truly struggling in, is as a competitive PvE damage dealer, which every class has been ever since the introduction of Fatecarver.

Outside of that, everything else is passable, where Nightblade healers are actually sought out.

KaironBlackbard

huh

Theist_VII

Are you wondering why a healer set that’s dependent on ultimate generation would be more effective on a class that has better ultimate generation?

Pillager’s Profit


Nightblade Passive


With Infused jewelry and Reduce Potion Cooldown glyphs, you can build your ultimate up extremely fast and give the rest of your group more every 45 seconds if you time your ultimates appropriately.

Foxtrot39

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

[...]
I don't really see many Nightblade tanks, so I don't know how good they are at it. Mine's not doing so hot.

With the right build its ok, been a Nb tank for about 3 years now, syphonning changes made so you can perma block with ease but you still suffer from not really adding anything to the group buff wise so mine is just an ult generator acting as off duty healer since I can still easely hit 10-13k with shrewd offering and its morphs

Telos_Tim wrote: »

[...]

With Infused jewelry and Reduce Potion Cooldown glyphs, you can build your ultimate up extremely fast and give the rest of your group more every 45 seconds if you time your ultimates appropriately.

Not sure wasting enchant slot for only shugging pots is better than having stronger heal or sustain, either costly or only viable on argonian for the passive they have drinking pots using trash one

KaironBlackbard

I use Thews of the Harbinger and Shattered Fate, thinking of swapping shattered fate (8k penetration on 5th) for either Frozen Watcher (AoE Frost damage while bracing) or Adamant Lurker (stand still for health recovery)
Current Pen 12k
Should I trade 8k for other set or keep?
If trade, here's what I'm looking at
Frozen Watcher: 1900 frost dps 8 meter radius while bracing
Adamant Lurker: +1900 health recovery when standing still (current ~500-550, so big bonus)

Still trying to figure the best set to pair with Thews for most effective bracing only to make kills deal, since tank's damage is trash.

Foxtrot39

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

I use Thews of the Harbinger and Shattered Fate, thinking of swapping shattered fate (8k penetration on 5th) for either Frozen Watcher (AoE Frost damage while bracing) or Adamant Lurker (stand still for health recovery)
Current Pen 12k
Should I trade 8k for other set or keep?
If trade, here's what I'm looking at
Frozen Watcher: 1900 frost dps 8 meter radius while bracing
Adamant Lurker: +1900 health recovery when standing still (current ~500-550, so big bonus)

Still trying to figure the best set to pair with Thews for most effective bracing only to make kills deal, since tank's damage is trash.

I'm mostly a vet trial support tank so damage is quite far down my priority list

If you're doing PVE I'd say drop any health regen set, standing immobile with dark cloak will largely cover that part, if using master sword and board even more so

Frozen watcher can be fun since its also does AOE root for free with a charged staff and buff crit damage, could synergise well with Nunatak monster set but haven't tested it

Dont think set giving pen is needed, you already debuff 8k with pierce armor

For PVP I can't tell, rarely engage there with the amount of broken build and ball group spam

KaironBlackbard

I'm dealing minimum damage to players dual wielding with a poison blast set, as if they have max armor and both protections.
My 12k penetration and pierce armor don't do a single point of increased damage.
It's heartbreaking honestly.
Sometimes I wish I could disable their capability to heal or recieve heals or something. They outheal all my meager damage.
NPCs take 150k from a single beam attack they cast at me that I block, players cast a bunch of flurries and are hardly hurt. Only one person has died so far and they were a level 34. Took them a while too. They didn't use any heals. Flurried themself to death.
I take that back, there was another, an arcanist who only casted the damage beam. That one took 5 times as long.
365 a tick is low, but it's 2.2k in PvE zones like Archive. That's where it really shines, against a certain few opponents.
Firebeam caster = 150k dps. Seriously, that beam ticked soo fast he killed himself 15 times faster than the ads.
I don't remember NPC titles. I think he was a miniboss?

master_vanargand

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

I'm dealing minimum damage to players dual wielding with a poison blast set, as if they have max armor and both protections.
My 12k penetration and pierce armor don't do a single point of increased damage.
It's heartbreaking honestly.
Sometimes I wish I could disable their capability to heal or recieve heals or something. They outheal all my meager damage.
NPCs take 150k from a single beam attack they cast at me that I block, players cast a bunch of flurries and are hardly hurt. Only one person has died so far and they were a level 34. Took them a while too. They didn't use any heals. Flurried themself to death.
I take that back, there was another, an arcanist who only casted the damage beam. That one took 5 times as long.
365 a tick is low, but it's 2.2k in PvE zones like Archive. That's where it really shines, against a certain few opponents.
Firebeam caster = 150k dps. Seriously, that beam ticked soo fast he killed himself 15 times faster than the ads.
I don't remember NPC titles. I think he was a miniboss?

PvE Group Dungeon DPS does not need to increase penetration.
Enemies in World map and Normal Group Dungeon have 9100 armor, enemies in Veteran Dungeon have 18200 armor.
And the roll that lowers the enemy's armor is Tank.

You are making a mistake as a PvE Group Dungeon DPS.

Also, this is not the place to ask basic questions like yours.
This is the official thread for telling ZoS game creators what you want for Nightblade.
You are asking your question in the wrong place and should create your own question thread.
[snip]
[edited for minor baiting]

KaironBlackbard

I was just using an example of how in PvE it wipes out certain enemies (others don't attack that much) and in PvP it's practically useless.
I was trying to up my pen to bypass some of the damage dealer's armor but it didn't do anything.
How damage dealers can have max armor while my tank only has 27k is beyond me.

Foxtrot39

Still the ideal place to discuss the NB class

master_vanargand

Nightblade has many problems, but there are two main ones.

The first problem is that Nightblade is the worst performing PvE DPS.
Compared to PvE Top tier classes, Nightblade's single dps is over 10% worse.
Of course, AoE DPS is also at the bottom. And skill rotation is the most complex.
Designed as a DPS when ESO started, Nightblade suffers as the worst DPS in its 10th anniversary.

There are many ways and ideas to solve this problem, but I think a simple solution is better.
Here are some simple ideas to buff PvE Nightblade DPS.

[My idea list]

1. Increase the duration of the passive ability Dark Veil to 4 seconds.
2. Increase Death Stroke's duration and reduce its ult cost. (For example, if the ult cost is 60 and the effect time is 12 seconds, the DPS will increase by about 5%)
3. Change the "Pressure Points" value of the passive skill to 657.
4. Passive ability "Magicka Flood" increases stamina and magicka. (Rename it to "Power Flood".)
5. Change all stamina morph skills of Nightblade such as Killer's Blade to "Bleed Damage" and unify them. (Incapacitating Strike, Killer's Blade, Ambush, Relentless Focus, Surprise Attack, Power Extraction.)

The second problem is that of red light.
It is discussed in the thread below.

[Grim Focus Permaglow]

Jazraena wrote: »

Grim Focus now makes your weapons permanently glow just for having the ability slotted

But it feels like game creators are forever ignoring us.
Game creators may not have time to give love to all classes.
But shouldn't game creators give players a fair chance without discriminating between classes?

The game balance that only tier1 classes can enjoy is a bad habit of old MMORPG.

Isn't class "discrimination" unnecessary in modern times?
Shouldn't game creators at least try to make the game balance fair?
For the past 10 years, it feels like game creators have done nothing but mess up game balance.

KaironBlackbard

I'm still trying to figure out how someone can hit 72k with concealed weapon when I can't top 12k on a pure damage setup. 21k crit tops.

Foxtrot39

Same magic you see PVP player use to get 35k HP maxed out resist and still hit 12+k with spammable

Uanian

Well currently the only good change we saw so far for the Nightblade in Gold Road is that the Dark Shade ability will be doing aoe damage for now on rather than random single target or aoe damage. It's a start but there's more that can be improved for this class to make it more rewarding to play in competitive PvE content. This is a class that has a really complex rotation yet it is not hitting high numbers or offer much utility like an Arcanist or Dragonknight. And yeah, I never really understood why the class has the red permaglow when we slot Merciless Resolve, at least give us the option to toggle it off.

In the meantime, I shall continue to play with other classes and return back to my Nightblade main when the class is accepted into endgame trial groups as a damage dealer.

Crow_IX

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

However, my complaints as a High-level PvPer are different;
1. Shadowy Disguise is in a tight spot. Without it, a Nightblade has almost no survivability/escapability. With it, they become almost unhittable. I would like more alternatives for escapability and survivability, as being reliant on Shadowy for everything from damage to surviving to stealth (the skill does it all) can be very one-note. Furthermore, I would like some more class options for Marks to counter Shadowy, as currently the only class that can counter Shadowy without Guild Skills is another Nightblade. Like, why can't a Templar, the class with the Spears of Light and Holy Fire, summon some sort of anti-invisibility zone? I know a lot of people either really like Shadowy or really hate it, so I feel it could use some more counters or more alternatives to ease both sides.
Also, If a player actively expends resources to cast a ranged skill such as Snipe, a Nightblade should be hit even if they use Shadowy. Otherwise it is unfair to the other player who spent the resources.
2. Single Target Burst; It is too easy to die to ganking. Now, I'm not saying Nightblade is too powerful (maybe except for making anti-invisibility skills more common to help counter Shadowy), because I think the downsides of building a ganker (being very squishy, low on healing, enemy players can and will focus you out) are worthwhile downsides for that level of strength. That being said, there should be more counterplay to it. Something like counter-healing, or other mechanic to aid players (especially newer PvP players who are often disproportionately targeted by players) in fighting against gankers) Perhaps a longer lasting-shorter range AoE mark that is meant to serve defensively (I'm open to more ideas, having difficulties thinking of good ones), or something else

1: You cant call yourself a high level PvPer and then show a lack of knowledge of combat mechanics. For example, it's not exactly shadowy disguise that is the issue it's actually just survivability in general particularly with a lack of numbers. While the meta has continued to support the tankiness in PvP by adding all these damage proc sets which allows players to do way to high of damage for simply "playing the game" as the proc conditions are really just as easy as holding the W key and even the forced hybrid change allowed for more tankiness for giving players even more resource management which entails survivability. With all that being said, at this point it really just boils down to numbers of players you're up against. Solo play feels practically impossible. Before, a real high level PvPer would often play solo and never really relied shadowy disguise for a fight but rather for positioning during outnumbered fights.

I wish you would have separated this as it's own issue but I will address it as such. Every class has very easy to use counters for shadowy disguise and depending on your playstyle some may benefit you more than others. So many AOE's drag nightblades out of stealth. Streak pulls and stuns, lightning form, deadric curse, fiery breath, spiked armor, inhale. There is so much counter play to stealth, all it is situational awareness. In 99/100 cases, a stealthing nightblade isn't good enough to take on a 1 to 1 fight.

Lastly, would you say snipe, cfrags, and all other skills hit someone when dodging? It's basically the same situation. Some skills miss, thats just how the game is.

2: Typically, surviving a gank is very easy seeing as once you break free you can dodge and out heal the dps of snipe (assuming this is what is getting you most of the times) then continue on and ignore the ganker because they typically just sit there and wait for prey. Also they aren't very good in actual combat as mentioned before.

The reason the game is in the state it is in, which is terrible if you didn't know, is because it was catered to players of less skill. People kept complaining about good players being able to decimate full teams of inexperienced players because, well, experience if I'm being honest. Zergers and PvErs don't always understand how the combat flows in PvP, its not a rotation, and its almost like a fighting game. You've got your defense, neutral and offense. You gotta read your opponent and time your bursts. It was fairly complex back then before everything started relying on external damage i.e. proc sets. I personally noticed it got worse after a while of seeing major performance issues with skills not working properly. Long story short, please stop trying to base the game around less skilled players.

Ellis_Salamandis

If I'm wrong, you can blame me, but I have no problems with PvE content. I go to dungeons in a pvp build and have no problems. Enjoyable gameplay, energy production and AoE damage are so high that literally a couple of spams with these skills killed mobs.
It seems to me that this is the most balanced class in the game, everything is tasty and pleasant for him, all the passives and the skills themselves. The ZOS team has made some very big changes to this class to make it even cooler and more balanced. I heard that before many skills did not work passively on another panel, stacks of light attacks were mercilessly resolved and reset to zero, now they are with you until you die. What other class can boast of such a skill that passively gives you weapon power and takes you 30-50k with one critical shot.

KaironBlackbard

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

However, my complaints as a High-level PvPer are different;
1. Shadowy Disguise is in a tight spot. Without it, a Nightblade has almost no survivability/escapability. With it, they become almost unhittable. I would like more alternatives for escapability and survivability, as being reliant on Shadowy for everything from damage to surviving to stealth (the skill does it all) can be very one-note. Furthermore, I would like some more class options for Marks to counter Shadowy, as currently the only class that can counter Shadowy without Guild Skills is another Nightblade. Like, why can't a Templar, the class with the Spears of Light and Holy Fire, summon some sort of anti-invisibility zone? I know a lot of people either really like Shadowy or really hate it, so I feel it could use some more counters or more alternatives to ease both sides.
Also, If a player actively expends resources to cast a ranged skill such as Snipe, a Nightblade should be hit even if they use Shadowy. Otherwise it is unfair to the other player who spent the resources.
2. Single Target Burst; It is too easy to die to ganking. Now, I'm not saying Nightblade is too powerful (maybe except for making anti-invisibility skills more common to help counter Shadowy), because I think the downsides of building a ganker (being very squishy, low on healing, enemy players can and will focus you out) are worthwhile downsides for that level of strength. That being said, there should be more counterplay to it. Something like counter-healing, or other mechanic to aid players (especially newer PvP players who are often disproportionately targeted by players) in fighting against gankers) Perhaps a longer lasting-shorter range AoE mark that is meant to serve defensively (I'm open to more ideas, having difficulties thinking of good ones), or something else

1) Shadowy Disguise is useless in PvP.
Do you know how many times I've died while cloaked?
I see enemy in the distance, I cloak, I get executed by a Dragonknight while I'm still cloaked.
What do they say every time? Detection Potion.
A 43.5 meter radius detection potion that lasts 15 seconds on a 30 second cooldown.
Ok, allows them to see sneaking folk from farther away...
BUT INVISIBLE! BS! And yet that is how they are using it.
Also, Revealing Flare is part of Every build. It is Major Protection at all times and doubles as a revealing effect.
Someone in every Zurg is running Radiant Magelight to grant their squad immunity to the stun from sneak attacks. It also grants them critical buffs and doubles as a Revealing Effect.
The Hunter ability is mostly only for those using silver bolts and such. Not as useful.
Unlike most class abilities, they still don't grant their passive perks from either bar, only the active bar.
But seriously, If you aren't running Flare, you're dead meat, because you don't have its Major Protection at all times. Everyone runs that. Everyone.
2) Nightblades are based around the premise of go in, deal a ton of damage, escape and reload. We've lost our escape and reload talent due to the uselessness of Shadowy. I try to avoid PvP, all I'm doing is questing. Imperial City dailies. I see one person, I cloak and go around a corner, they follow me and kill me. I was invisible! They shouldn't have seen me! But the detection potion let them. Unbalanced junk. They need to balance that potion, or better yet Separate Sneak from Invisibility and let our cloak and invis potions make us hidden to detection potions. Of course, they will have to update Faun's Lark Cladding to reflect that change so Vampires don't invisisprint through enemies and remain invisisprinting.

master_vanargand

Why is the duration of Nightblade's passive skill "Shadow Barrier" tied to "Heavy Armor"?
This has been around for a long time, but binding a class passive skill to Heavy Armor is silly.
Need fix the duration of "Shadow Barrier" to 20 seconds.
Alternatively, slotting the Shadow skill will permanently grant Major Resolve.
Making the duration permanent will eliminate duration update spam and reduce server calculations and traffic.

DrNukenstein

master_vanargand wrote: »

Why is the duration of Nightblade's passive skill "Shadow Barrier" tied to "Heavy Armor"?
This has been around for a long time, but binding a class passive skill to Heavy Armor is silly.
Need fix the duration of "Shadow Barrier" to 20 seconds.
Alternatively, slotting the Shadow skill will permanently grant Major Resolve.
Making the duration permanent will eliminate duration update spam and reduce server calculations and traffic.

This is super reasonable. What nightblade (outside of some pve content) goes more than 4 seconds without casting cloak, path, or veiled strike at least once? Really could just be a while slotted effect and have no effect on the game besides less messages to server. Someone would complain about it here though.

master_vanargand

DrNukenstein wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Why is the duration of Nightblade's passive skill "Shadow Barrier" tied to "Heavy Armor"?
This has been around for a long time, but binding a class passive skill to Heavy Armor is silly.
Need fix the duration of "Shadow Barrier" to 20 seconds.
Alternatively, slotting the Shadow skill will permanently grant Major Resolve.
Making the duration permanent will eliminate duration update spam and reduce server calculations and traffic.

This is super reasonable. What nightblade (outside of some pve content) goes more than 4 seconds without casting cloak, path, or veiled strike at least once? Really could just be a while slotted effect and have no effect on the game besides less messages to server. Someone would complain about it here though.

Making the duration permanent will eliminate duration update spam and reduce server calculations and traffic.
Reducing server computation and traffic is important.
It improves ping for all players and allows ZoS to reduce the cost of maintaining the server.
This may be a small change, but it definitely reduces the load on the server.

KaironBlackbard

If they add my Idea for slotting activated abilities as passives, we'll have people dealing less damage while having a lot more permanent buffs and effects.

Let's take shadowy path for example, you would permanently have Major Expedition, and may even grant it to nearby allies.

Dark cloak would give you a permanent heal over time and minor protection. The HoT would have more factors to consider though, such as cost and mag regen, that would reduce its heal rate. High cost and low regen reduce its healing, low cost and high regen can give it up to its full effect.
Let's say it costs 4000 and you have 500 mag recovery. Its heal efficiency would be ~12.5%.
Now lets say you got some enchantments and set buffs to reduce its cost to 2000 and mag recovery to 1000. Heal efficiency 50%.
Now, they would probably set it up a bit differently, but that's the base version I made.
This ability would reduce max magicka.

A more universal ability perhaps? Undaunted's Blood Fountain (totally forgot its name)
Enemies around you in a certain radius (probably reduced radius) would have Minor Lifesteal applies to them.
Once every so many seconds your allies can use the heal synergy if they are within the radius.
Enemies players can see the chalice in your buff list if they can see all your buffs and debuffs. This can allow them to prioritize you if they want.
This ability would reduce max health.
The cooldown of the synergy is based off your incoming healing and recovery, and the cost of the ability.
Whenever you would have been able to recast the ability is when the synergy refreshes. Or However it normally refreshes if its by user not by caster. As far as I can tell its each ally can use it once per cast, so when you regenerate the used resource you would recast for allies to use it again. In this case its passive and costs nothing actively, though it did reduce max resource.

Funny thing: my tank has 500+ resource restore but only ~260 health recovery, and he has no curse. 42.5k HP.
Khajiit Nightblade.
Mostly just a Thews of the Harbinger Build, but can't figure out what my second set should be. Thinking Beekeeper or Adamant Lurker. Maybe Darloc Brae. Maybe Shadow Walker. Penetration sets aren't helping me any.

I wish Siphoning Strikes procced a little more often than once per second. Would help me better in PvP if it did.
Like either 0.5 or better yet 0.25 seconds.
0.25 would make it kind of like that resto staff block to gain magicka passive, except this is damage to gain health.
Would also help with certain other attacks (flurry, bow utl, soul world skills ult, etc).
Anyone else think SS should proc more often?

master_vanargand

PvE DPS Nightblade has the worst DPS.
Low AoE DPS, low single target DPS.

With this update Dark Shade has become an AoE skill, but since NB does not use the AoE Damage UP CP, the Single DPS has actually decreased.
PvE DPS Nightblade is still weak and needs buffs.

[Requests for improvements to Nightblade]

• Increase Death Stroke's duration and reduce its ult cost. (For example, if the Ult cost is 60 and the duration is 12 seconds, the DPS increase is about 5%. "Soul Harvest" does less damage than "Incapacitating Strike" and does not have the special effect of 120 ult, so few people seem to use "Soul Harvest" in PvE or PvP. There are many reasons why Nightblade uses "Incapacitating Strike" in PvE, such as when DPS often accumulate 120 ults while dealing with boss gimmicks, or when DPS want to get ahead of other DPS by attacking the first. "Soul Harvest" on the current live server seems to have no use other than solo use, because there aren't many Trials bosses with a lot of adds. If "Soul Harvest" ult cost becomes 60 and effect duration becomes 12 seconds, PvE DPS Nightblade will choose "Soul Harvest". )
• Passive ability "Magicka Flood" increases stamina and magicka. (Rename it to "Power Flood". If this is not done, Cannot be called the hybridization. Also, please change the activation condition of the passive skill to "While slotted Siphoning skills on either bar".)
• Change passive abilitie "Hemorrhage" to "While slotted Assassination skills on either bar". (The current problem, PvE DPS Nightblade is forced to use Assassination ult skill on both bars. If only one bar is OK, without reducing DPS, NB can change the back bar ult slot to AoE Damage ult skill.)
• Increases passive abilitie "Pressure Points" from 438 (2%) to 657 (3%). (This is the easiest and most reliable way to increase the DPS of PvE Nightblade.)
• Need the duration of "Twisting Path" to be increased without reducing the DPS. (Namely, make it 15 sec instead of 12 sec. Making it the same time as the 15 second weapon skill on the backbar would make skill rotation easier.)
• Add the effect of "Effects additional enemies near your initial target. (+3 targets)" without reducing the DPS of "Cripple". (Making it a splitting skill increases the AoE damage. However, damage should not be reduced from what it is currently on the live server. Single DPS should not be reduced.)
• Add "Now deals its damage in an area around the initial target as well." to "Killer's Blade". (Anyway, since the AoE is lacking, need add splitting damage like "Reverse Slice".)

KaironBlackbard

Responding in inverse order to the above

Killers Blade is a solo execute and will never be anything different.
However, I do wish its execute scaling reached max potency by the time the target hits 25%. 10% even. It should not still be missing potency when they are 3%.
Although I wouldn't mind cripple hitting many targets, they will inevitably reduce its damage if they do that, so I must decline that.
You can increase twisting path's duration by using the passive Dark Veil.
I wouldn't mind the crit boost.
The hemorrhage comment is confusing. What about this: Abilities that have effects that take effect from the inactive bar ("either bar") will count as slotted for the purpose of gaining boosts from passives. They do not stack if also slotted on the active bar.
Again, your either bar siphoning part is confusing. Power flood sounds nice if it restores both resources.
Most of us use Incapacitating Strike on back bar purely for its ultimate gain effect, that entire ultimate is pretty much useless compared to weapon and guild and world ultimates.

Foxtrot39

Issue is you still fall down the "Any buff for PVE is an overbuff in PVP" pit and the opposite

Case example : cloak

Dark cloak change to boost health when immobile is great for the rare NB tanks like me but sucks for DPS or PVP that require a lot of mobility as main source to stay alive, so it got nerfed for use on DPS

The double bar effect of shadowy disguise was nice to boost PVE DPS but has 2 issues :

1.Nobody needs or use that skill outside RP/criminal and PVP activities so you waste a skill slot for dungeons and trials just for the buff and passive bonus

2.It just buffed PVP gankblade and gave even more incentive to go down that playstyle which is already complained about as far as Sheo's cheese cellar goes

Unless PVE and PVP abilities can be clearly separated, which has its own issues, NB can't get any significant buffs for PVE without causing it to become overtuned in PVP

master_vanargand

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Unless PVE and PVP abilities can be clearly separated, which has its own issues, NB can't get any significant buffs for PVE without causing it to become overtuned in PVP

I think the idea that Nightblade is too strong in PvP is wrong in the first place.
Nightblade is not weak, but they can be easily killed by detection pot, detection skills, and other bugged skills that remove invisibility.
Nightblade is weaker than Arcanist, Sorcerer, and Dragonknight.

However, there are ways to buff Nightblade without affecting PvP.

master_vanargand wrote: »

PvE DPS Nightblade has the worst DPS.
Low AoE DPS, low single target DPS.

With this update Dark Shade has become an AoE skill, but since NB does not use the AoE Damage UP CP, the Single DPS has actually decreased.
PvE DPS Nightblade is still weak and needs buffs.

[Requests for improvements to Nightblade]

• Increase Death Stroke's duration and reduce its ult cost. (For example, if the Ult cost is 60 and the duration is 12 seconds, the DPS increase is about 5%. "Soul Harvest" does less damage than "Incapacitating Strike" and does not have the special effect of 120 ult, so few people seem to use "Soul Harvest" in PvE or PvP. There are many reasons why Nightblade uses "Incapacitating Strike" in PvE, such as when DPS often accumulate 120 ults while dealing with boss gimmicks, or when DPS want to get ahead of other DPS by attacking the first. "Soul Harvest" on the current live server seems to have no use other than solo use, because there aren't many Trials bosses with a lot of adds. If "Soul Harvest" ult cost becomes 60 and effect duration becomes 12 seconds, PvE DPS Nightblade will choose "Soul Harvest". )
• Passive ability "Magicka Flood" increases stamina and magicka. (Rename it to "Power Flood". If this is not done, Cannot be called the hybridization. Also, please change the activation condition of the passive skill to "While slotted Siphoning skills on either bar".)
• Change passive abilitie "Hemorrhage" to "While slotted Assassination skills on either bar". (The current problem, PvE DPS Nightblade is forced to use Assassination ult skill on both bars. If only one bar is OK, without reducing DPS, NB can change the back bar ult slot to AoE Damage ult skill.)
• Increases passive abilitie "Pressure Points" from 438 (2%) to 657 (3%). (This is the easiest and most reliable way to increase the DPS of PvE Nightblade.)
• Need the duration of "Twisting Path" to be increased without reducing the DPS. (Namely, make it 15 sec instead of 12 sec. Making it the same time as the 15 second weapon skill on the backbar would make skill rotation easier.)
• Add the effect of "Effects additional enemies near your initial target. (+3 targets)" without reducing the DPS of "Cripple". (Making it a splitting skill increases the AoE damage. However, damage should not be reduced from what it is currently on the live server. Single DPS should not be reduced.)
• Add "Now deals its damage in an area around the initial target as well." to "Killer's Blade". (Anyway, since the AoE is lacking, need add splitting damage like "Reverse Slice".)

For example, the idea of ​​buffing "Soul Harvest" or "Twisting Path" doesn't affect PvP, right?
Because no one uses them in PvP. Yes, it's very simple.
Buff PvE skills that NB don't use in PvP. That's all.

That said, I don't think it's a problem to make changes that affect PvP.

Nightblade is not weak in PvP, but it's not strong either.
The only players who feel Nightblade is strong are beginners who don't know anything in PvP.