[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

Pauwer

Yeh,the stam regen needs to be put back, nb are forced to use 2h. Also it would be nice for nb skills to hit someone and not be so loud and oh yea, nb ultimates to cast in combat. Remember that, nb used to be able to cast soul tether? My nb has permanent full ulti nowdays, the thing never goes off.

TheS1X

Ok, my pain points of playing NB.
I feel like with a bow I can not do enough damage to any class out there. ( Maybe add bow damage for a Bosmer passive )
When I go melee and try to do damage, I feel too squishy against other classes, sure I can do some harm but I am dead with a blink of an eye when playing against decent player. Only way to do something is ganking off guard players.
I am forced to go tank with a NB because of META and I don't want to, I feel it ruins NB, I never chose NB to go tank at first place. I always think about NB as an assassin, there are plenty other classes that are good fit for a tank.
And I still can not take down other tanks when I go tank, just surviving little bit more.
Stealth does not work when I need it most, feels little bit buggy time to time.
I am DD but I see other classes doing more damage and I have decent wep damage, pen and crit chance, still not geting close to Sorcs for example.

TheS1X

NBs mostly relies on broken proc sets.

PS: I read some earlier posts and I see lots of people here posting ideas how to nerf NB, I have huge doupt that they actually play NB. NB is weakest class 1v1 and is below average with damage, surviving and sustain - ( Can make normal amount of damage when sacrificing survivability and sustain and still falls behind Sorc with damage!!! )
It is very difficult to play with and it is very difficult to make NB work. I have tested most set combinations and found only few that work and keep me almost competitive against other classes but still fall behind a lot. There are few builds that are OP but those use broken new sets that will get nerfed soon anyways, so I usually do not even play with those. Anyways, it is weird to see people wanting nerfs here, should I go and asking nerfs for a other classes under their topics?
Is that normal?

Foxtrot39

Consumming darkness + morph needs a rework too, the skill is completely useless and NEVER used by anyone since major protection got nerfed from 30 down to 10% mitigation

The entire skill can't compete to soul syphon wich can burst heal you back to 100% along with any ally nearby

Major protection as only gain for a 200 cost ult is abysmall when necro get +30k hp + AOE lifesteal and DK 10s god mod for it.

Also the synergy ask allies to go next to a tank : the last place you would want anyone to go near to heal or use a synergy

Warden ult increase enemy crit damage taken, snare, sometime freeze, give major protection but also has triple the range

Consumming Darkness is as tiny AOE with a big snare that only grant 1 buff with a counter intuitive synergy im actually amazed how this skill went from very good to completely useless and no one thought of rebalancing it to make it a relevent tank skill again

master_vanargand

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Consumming darkness + morph needs a rework too, the skill is completely useless and NEVER used by anyone since major protection got nerfed from 30 down to 10% mitigation

The entire skill can't compete to soul syphon wich can burst heal you back to 100% along with any ally nearby

Major protection as only gain for a 200 cost ult is abysmall when necro get +30k hp + AOE lifesteal and DK 10s god mod for it.

Also the synergy ask allies to go next to a tank : the last place you would want anyone to go near to heal or use a synergy

Warden ult increase enemy crit damage taken, snare, sometime freeze, give major protection but also has triple the range

Consumming Darkness is as tiny AOE with a big snare that only grant 1 buff with a counter intuitive synergy im actually amazed how this skill went from very good to completely useless and no one thought of rebalancing it to make it a relevent tank skill again

I agree with your opinion.
It's as trash as Drain Power.

Tigertron

I feel I’m lacking a decent AoE and would like Mark Target to mark multiple targets AoE style even if the duration is reduced. Sure caltrops but I’m a Nightblade.

master_vanargand

Tigertron wrote: »

I feel I’m lacking a decent AoE and would like Mark Target to mark multiple targets AoE style even if the duration is reduced. Sure caltrops but I’m a Nightblade.

Certainly Mark Target feels outdated.

I think the Piercing Mark "you can see the target if they use stealth or invisibility" is unnecessary.
I think it is strange as a game balance that NB suffers from NB.
Also, Reaper's Mark's "When a marked enemy dies, you gain Major Berserk" is difficult to use.

For example, what if Reaper's Mark's Major Berserk was synergy?
Or what if the Piercing Mark was AoE taunt?
I don't know if these are good ideas.
But I feel it should change.

Fhritz

Personally, I love the recent changes of Malevolent Offering, but I would love to see it tooltip based on the highest offensive stat rather than only magika, like twisting path

YandereGirlfriend

master_vanargand wrote: »

Tigertron wrote: »

I feel I’m lacking a decent AoE and would like Mark Target to mark multiple targets AoE style even if the duration is reduced. Sure caltrops but I’m a Nightblade.

Certainly Mark Target feels outdated.

I think the Piercing Mark "you can see the target if they use stealth or invisibility" is unnecessary.
I think it is strange as a game balance that NB suffers from NB.
Also, Reaper's Mark's "When a marked enemy dies, you gain Major Berserk" is difficult to use.

For example, what if Reaper's Mark's Major Berserk was synergy?
Or what if the Piercing Mark was AoE taunt?
I don't know if these are good ideas.
But I feel it should change.

Reaper's Mark certainly feels outdated and it was one of the largest casualties from the Minor/Major buff nerfs of a year ago. Its power was severely undermined and the skill was never compensated in any way. Bolstering Darkness also falls into this category - though it is somehow even worse and less useful.

Turning Reaper's Mark into a synergy would be interesting (the game would benefit from more synergy options) but a simple increase in the duration of Major Berserk from a measly 5 seconds to something like 20 would also be a worthwhile buff. Right now, I literally only use it on Nightblade bombers in group play as a "pre-buff" on clumped-up enemy groups. They'll inevitably die in the bomb and then afterward you get Major Berserk to use on the stragglers. The skill deserves a more broad use case for that, especially for solo and small-scale players.

I actually like Piercing Mark as a spy vs. spy tool. Not saying that it couldn't also be buffed but it has a more concrete purpose in the game than Reaper's Mark currently does.

Ezorus

If you are talking about useless abilities that need reworking.. may i add in the middle tree ult, can't even think of the name because its never been good enough to use

Ippokrates

Ezorus wrote: »

If you are talking about useless abilities that need reworking.. may i add in the middle tree ult, can't even think of the name because its never been good enough to use

Actually this Ultimate, i mean synergy it offers could be a really nice tool, if only game allows for more skipping in dungs & trials. And they reduce it cost or extend its duration so it would be comparable with vanish, of course. Then NB would be must have in any team

Faint_One

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Consumming darkness + morph needs a rework too, the skill is completely useless and NEVER used by anyone since major protection got nerfed from 30 down to 10% mitigation

The entire skill can't compete to soul syphon wich can burst heal you back to 100% along with any ally nearby

Major protection as only gain for a 200 cost ult is abysmall when necro get +30k hp + AOE lifesteal and DK 10s god mod for it.

Also the synergy ask allies to go next to a tank : the last place you would want anyone to go near to heal or use a synergy

Warden ult increase enemy crit damage taken, snare, sometime freeze, give major protection but also has triple the range

Consumming Darkness is as tiny AOE with a big snare that only grant 1 buff with a counter intuitive synergy im actually amazed how this skill went from very good to completely useless and no one thought of rebalancing it to make it a relevent tank skill again

I prefer they throw back bolstering darkness to past version witch gives major protection and self non buff damage mitigation

novemberhhh

plz stahp, this dead horse been dead for ages now, just let the class die already
heck do they even still have class reps anymore lmao

exeeter702

Fhritz wrote: »

Personally, I love the recent changes of Malevolent Offering, but I would love to see it tooltip based on the highest offensive stat rather than only magika, like twisting path

Shrewd should have been changed to the current version on live. Healthy offering should have been left the [snip] alone.

[edited for profanity bypass]

ealdwin

Shuffling around some of the affects of Siphoning Strikes & Morphs and Drain Power & Morphs could help a bit.

For example:

Siphoning Strikes

• Now grants Major Brutality and Sorcery (moved from Drain Power)
• Leeching Strikes
  • No longer restores Stamina on ability end (moved to Drain Power)
  • Double the amount of Stamina restore from 106 to 212
• Siphoning Attacks
  • No longer restores Magicka on ability end (moved to Drain Power)
  • Double the amount of Magicka restore from 106 to 212

Now the ability is a self-buff and more "consistent" resource return

Drain Power

• No longer grants Major Brutality and Sorcery (moved to Siphoning Strikes)
• Now restores Magicka and Stamina to you (and allies?) per enemy hit (moved from Siphoning Strikes)
• Power Extraction
  • No change
• Sap Essence
  • No change

This is just an idea of how it could work.
Main key is that Brutality and Sorcery should be on the buff skill, rather than dependent on melee AoE damage.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

ealdwin wrote: »

Shuffling around some of the affects of Siphoning Strikes & Morphs and Drain Power & Morphs could help a bit.

For example:

Siphoning Strikes

• Now grants Major Brutality and Sorcery (moved from Drain Power)
• Leeching Strikes
  • No longer restores Stamina on ability end (moved to Drain Power)
  • Double the amount of Stamina restore from 106 to 212
• Siphoning Attacks
  • No longer restores Magicka on ability end (moved to Drain Power)
  • Double the amount of Magicka restore from 106 to 212

Now the ability is a self-buff and more "consistent" resource return

Drain Power

• No longer grants Major Brutality and Sorcery (moved to Siphoning Strikes)
• Now restores Magicka and Stamina to you (and allies?) per enemy hit (moved from Siphoning Strikes)
• Power Extraction
  • No change
• Sap Essence
  • No change

This is just an idea of how it could work.
Main key is that Brutality and Sorcery should be on the buff skill, rather than dependent on melee AoE damage.

I think these are good changes overall. The only thing is to be sure that Drain Power is not needed to maintain a single target rotation, but guessing doubling the magic/stam restore during the skill probably takes care of that. Not a huge fan of the functionality of the restore magic/stam on skill end anyways. I would rather be rewarded for good uptime, less to micro manage.

Power extraction is a total joke. As a general rule, I think if there is a class skill and a weapon/guild skill that essentially do the same thing, the class skill should be better at it.

Sap is in a great place, but it would be nice to not have to cast on single target fights to get major sorcery when trying to save on pots in pug dungeons. I don't think these would be OP, just synergize a little better.

Only possible complaint is that it might be a little stronger for a NB ganker being able to pre-buff major sorc/brutality out of stealth, but not terribly worried about that. Potion does the same thing.

master_vanargand

ealdwin wrote: »

Siphoning Strikes

• Now grants Major Brutality and Sorcery (moved from Drain Power)

Siphoning Strikes should have Major Brutality and Sorcery.
This has been sought after by Nightblade for many years.
This is a little wish, but it's important for Nightblade.

ESO_Nightingale

master_vanargand wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

Siphoning Strikes

• Now grants Major Brutality and Sorcery (moved from Drain Power)

Siphoning Strikes should have Major Brutality and Sorcery.
This has been sought after by Nightblade for many years.
This is a little wish, but it's important for Nightblade.

It doesn't seem like a bad idea. Warden's version of leeching strikes (lotus flower) is also genuinely awful right now and doesn't really have it's own identity it's literally just a leeching strikes that can hit allies instead of self. i think they both need to be looked at. seeing as it's morphs give major prophecy or savagery depending on the morph when that should really just be a baseline effect. Having the nightblade's AoE Spammable as the major spell/wep dmg buff makes literally no sense.

master_vanargand

I stopped using Power Extraction in PvP.
Therefore, currently 0 players use Power Extraction in PvP.

Stx

I main NB, but I also play magicka templar, stamina templar, stamina sorc, and recently have been playing stam dk and a hybrid warden.

My biggest issue overall with nightblade (other than individual skills being useless) is that the class seems to be focused on high single target damage, yet I don't feel like I deal any more single target damage than my other characters, and my other characters cleave better too. I don't feel like I have any specific advantage dealing damage on a nightblade.

It's frustrating... my templars can deal way more aoe damage in a huge radius, and still kill bosses just as fast as my nightblade which is seemingly supposed to excel at single target damage.

master_vanargand

Stx wrote: »

I main NB, but I also play magicka templar, stamina templar, stamina sorc, and recently have been playing stam dk and a hybrid warden.

My biggest issue overall with nightblade (other than individual skills being useless) is that the class seems to be focused on high single target damage, yet I don't feel like I deal any more single target damage than my other characters, and my other characters cleave better too. I don't feel like I have any specific advantage dealing damage on a nightblade.

It's frustrating... my templars can deal way more aoe damage in a huge radius, and still kill bosses just as fast as my nightblade which is seemingly supposed to excel at single target damage.

Current NB is the lowest DPS in PvE.
NB is also the lowest burst damage class in PvP.
It's sad that the damage-focused NB gives the lowest damage.

Charlotte_Loreley

Every other game that has rogue or assassin archetype follows the basic principles of control, bleeding and poisons, and buildup for reliable burst damage.

• Nightblades have buildup burst, but it is unrewarding and easily avoidable.
  - Cast time and melee-only on Death Stroke.
  - Delays on Teleport Strike and Grim Focus.
  
• Nightblades have some CC (dodge-able and block-able, might I add) but it's pointless because the game has break-free and CC immunity system. So, with delays and cast times on your core damage abilities it's pretty hard to kill something that is not standing still.
  I am surprised the game still has CCs considering resource recovery is so easy especially in a group. You literally cannot die in a PVP group of 2-3+ with a healer, unless you're zerged by 10+ people (even then you'll probably die due to lag and not people hitting you). And lots of Champion Points allow you to easily slot in the extra bonuses just for breaking a CC, when you feel like it.
  
• For some reason, nightblades have disease damage. I understand that assassin types usually have kits that reduce target's healing, and disease is the source for that in this game. However, every fantasy game uses poisons for that. Disease is spread through archetypes that deal in life and death magic (i.e. necromancers or healers). Disease revolves around degradation of body over time (i.e. damage over time), while poisons actively prohibit proper bodily functions unless cured in time (i.e. healing reduction, physical impediments) .
  - Nightblades also have a whole tree supposedly related with blood magic, yet no bleeding effects.
  
• Blood magic is an amazing concept, but we only have one ability that makes use of that. Everything else is just drain and lifesteal, and these exist in every game without "blood magic".
  - Soul Shred: again an ability that has nothing to do with being an assassin or a blood mage. Necromancers and Healers deal with souls.
  - Strife and Drain Power feel more like some kind of telekinetic power rather than blood related. You're literally ripping away blood from enemies with a force. So, basically any mage with telekinetic powers can start ripping out limbs and bones or organs from their target.
  - Where's the idea of sacrificing one's own blood and use it as a catalyst to further power your magicka (or blades) and devastate your enemies?
  
• Shadow tree is also flawed.
  - Aspect of Terror: again with the spirits.
  I imagine Shadow tree to be like a nightblade making a deal with some dark entity by giving their will in exchange for power. Why not make the effect of this spell literally have that dark entity's avatar suddenly materialize from the nightblades body in shadowy smoke? That would truely invoke terror.
  People seeing a spirit being summoned by a nightblade should be confused rather than terrified (Is he a thief, an assassin, a necromancer, or just some weirdo? Should I call the guards?).
  - Consuming Darkness has a good idea behind it, but it's a ridiculously small area. If you're going to summon darkness out of a nether, it better be real damn darkness and encompass an insane area and provide no vision into it to people outside the boundaries of its magic (instead of tying invisibility to a synergy). This creates great use for strategic warfare in PVP and PVE.
  - - - A healer can use it to shroud the group from summoned adds but keep tank out of the area. Thus, adds run after what they see, which would be the tank. If adds summon in the area, healer's skill in using the ability will be tested. They have to keep their tank in the area also, so he can see the adds and taunt them off.
  Also make it immersive and reduce light for people inside it, so they actually feel they are dealing with something terrifying and that they better not anger the nightblade in their party.

In addition, passive skills need to be revised. A lot of useless bonuses and conditions like:

• % stat increase
• need to have certain ability slotted (If the ability is useful, I'll slot it anyways. What's the point of slotting something just to get a minor use out of it through a passive?)

If it were up to me, I'd rather remove passives altogether and replace them with talent trees where you can't have all the passives all the time. Create meaningful choices that work for your build or play-style. They could provide proper useful bonuses that further specialize you in certain way:

• maybe further improves certain abilities and/or their morphs
• or adds bonuses that come with a drawback:
  - your single target damage abilities do more damage, but your AOE abilities do less, or vice-versa
  - maybe a passive can add an effect to an ability at the cost of not being able to use another ability
• convert the damage type of your abilities to something else for a different flavor
  - i.e. damage is based on staff equipped
  - Dagger = poison, Mace/Hammer = physical, Axe/Sword = bleed
• increase range/radius is a good talent to specialize in (for people that love ranged combat more)

Make them only re-specable at a shrine for a decent cost, so you can't just keep changing them willy-nilly. Thus, they will truly feel like a part of your character identity.

Another very big issue I have with skills in ESO is the lack of harmony between weapons and class skills. You guys really need to figure out how to make them work together. It will improve the combat so much more and grant much better immersion.

---

TL;DR
The nightblade class is very lacking in terms of identity, focus and power potential in terms of gameplay and thematic standpoint. So, the fun to be head is very minimal with them in ESO.
This class and probably many others have some immense potential to be more interesting, satisfying and fun to play. ZOS just need to crank their creativity up to 11 and improve the game for the better instead of recycling an endless barrage of "new" content. Items, maps and creatures are not the only things that can shake up the meta and drive interest in the game and theorycrafting of builds.

Despite the bad rep that Blizzard received for their talent and skill system overhaul during Cata and MoP, they still managed to create something new and interesting out of the old stuff. Then, in Legion they followed up with a whole other additional skill system through artifacts. Though they were criticized for grind, the skills themselves were very well received and even missed after artifacts were consumed in the following expansion.

master_vanargand

PvE NB DPS is currently the weakest DPS.
I came up with an idea that could solve this problem.

[My idea]
Increase critical chances gained with Pressure Points.
Increase weapon and spell damage gained with Grim Focus.
Increase duration of Dark Shade.

Pressure Points and Grim Focus are simple math, so you can make fine adjustments.
Skill rotation of NB is 12 seconds, so if set Dark Shade to 24 sec or 36 sec, Skill rotation will be smooth and the DPS will increase.

This is a simple idea, so surefire way.

Tommy_The_Gun

I have been thinking recently about why people say that NB has (arguably) steepest learning curve amongst all eso Classes. And the reason behind this is well... Shades. (Shadow Image). It is a very powerful tool, but it requires a lot of practise to learn & master. Because, literally all you have is a tooltip that says "28 meters" and an icon that changes. That is it. As a result, it is very difficult to use all of the class "powers" to your advantage (unless you spend months learning it, which is less than ideal, shall we say).

So I have been thinking: What if Shadow Image had more "markers" that would make the skill easier to use ? For example, an AOE on the ground, around the shade. So you would know when you are leaving the area in which you can teleport. Alternatively, when you cast shade, there could be a small AOE on the ground with arrow below your character, following you (moving with you). The arrow would be pointing to your shade.

This would not make the skill more powerful, but would certainly be more intuitive to use...

TheS1X

Indeed, NB is weakest damage dealer atm and if you want to squeez some damage out from that class u must sacrifice lots of sustain and defense, that again makes you one hit target from PVE and PVP perspective.
In PVP NBs hunt each other because tanks are impossible to kill. This assassin class is dead and people who play it and who play it well are good players.

RedFireDisco

The major issue is simple, NB is only good at single target burst damage but in order to get anywhere near reasonable numbers you have to sacrifice health, armor, sustain, and speed - Making NB especially MagNB the squishiest class in the game

BUT

All my other characters are tankier and do more damage, much of which is AoE.

My magblade is a beast with it jabby spammable that heals, AoE's and procs burning light on EVERYONE for free

My sorc has frags on tap, phat shields, & pet blockers as well as stun see-ya-later escape in one skill

My stamcro BB/snipe double defiles & ghosty boi

My DK and stamden can heal, burst, dot, and repeat with maximum troll face

I have build on ESO BUILD EDITOR and switch the NB to a Warden and it's always a better idea to just roll that way.


So you can be as tanky as a DK and hit like a wet noodle or as "nearly" damaging as a sorc with no sustain or defence.

Only masichists roll Magblades. It's fun to be invisible until you're dead because you are not invisible and you can't kill anything when you're dead.

OWLTHEMAD

Pain points in no particular order

1. Veil of Blades/bolstering darkness: with the reduction of major protection values this skill in either form is pretty much useless. Even situationally there is no scenario where this skill is justified. There is ALWAYS something more effective.
2. Rotation: for pve nightblades have probably the most punishing rotation with the least room for error. Nothing lines up and a single missed weave throws your dps off dramatically. Both sustain and damage rely on perfect weaving but the end result does not justify the effort.
3. Pvp: ZERO versatility. You either go mag or stam and after that there are very limited ways to play the class effectively.
4. Bar space: there are really awesome passives tied to skills that honestly are situational at best. Concealed weapon, though cheap is a pretty horrible spammable to use on a mag build and is only slotted for the speed bonus on stealth. Reapers mark has the powerful major berserk but only applies to the caster killing an add making it useless for group play. Could be useful in 1vX pvp but that is literally the least effective way to play nightblade, and is terrible for ganking due to it broadcasting an impending attack. The skill is called mark target rework it for pve group utility.
5. Group Utility:, This is a big one. All nightblade group utility is redundant or virtually useless. Being the lowest dps ranking currently its pretty inexcuseable that nightblades bring nothing unique to a group setting. Why would any competent trial group recruit a nightblade when even a less skilled player of any other class brings more to the table?

The part that boggles my mind is that this class could be AMAZING without being overpowered with just a few tweaks.

xDeusEJRx

Me trying to figure out how people don't think NB isn't the most loaded class in PVP. Only being trailed by Necromancer which is vastly held back by it's burst ability and lack of class spammables, That plus nightblade can choose to disengage from any fight they want to at any time. Plus having access to crazy penetration and damage from class passives and abilities. Sounds like they only thing they're lacking is defense, which they can build into since their class already has so much innate damage in it.

RedFireDisco

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Me trying to figure out how people don't think NB isn't the most loaded class in PVP. Only being trailed by Necromancer which is vastly held back by it's burst ability and lack of class spammables, That plus nightblade can choose to disengage from any fight they want to at any time. Plus having access to crazy penetration and damage from class passives and abilities. Sounds like they only thing they're lacking is defense, which they can build into since their class already has so much innate damage in it.

Every class has damage and any class can have high damage

Being salty coz an NB can disengage - Any class can run invisible pots or go level 4 vamp

Cloak is costly and only lasts 3 seconds but in reality 2.8 coz of lag mitigation and that's when it actually works and you don't hit cloak 3 times and burn through all your mag only to not have any invisibility and ergo; be very dead.

OWLTHEMAD

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Me trying to figure out how people don't think NB isn't the most loaded class in PVP. Only being trailed by Necromancer which is vastly held back by it's burst ability and lack of class spammables, That plus nightblade can choose to disengage from any fight they want to at any time. Plus having access to crazy penetration and damage from class passives and abilities. Sounds like they only thing they're lacking is defense, which they can build into since their class already has so much innate damage in it.

I think they are a great class to play in pvp, my gripe is their lack of versatility. Your pretty limited in how you play them. You reference shadowy disguise and that right there is almost my point. Dark cloak, the other morph could be the key to a whole new playstyle but in its current form is pretty useless. Its the dead skills That are problematic.

You pretty much have to rely almost entirely on stealth as a nightblade.

I just think there should be other ways to play the class