[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

master_vanargand

@ZOS_Kevin

Concealed Weapon: This morph now grants Major Berserk for 7-10 seconds based on rank, rather than a unique 7-10% damage done when meeting its conditions.

PvE Nightblade DPS is said to be over 10% weaker than top tier classes.
And Nightblade is 10% weaker as Major Berserk is gained from sorc's atro ult.
What can be said for sure is that Nightblade DPS has become the weakest class in PvE.

ZoS want to annihilate PvE Nightblade DPS?
DPS ... no! Healer ... no! Tank ... DK and Necro!
What should PvE Nightblade do? Answer: Nothing.

Oh my Sithis ...

PandaSticks

@ZOS_Kevin

When I started in 2017, the stamblade was at the bottom. It's at the bottom again. Why? Why is it ok for other classes to be overpowered? And why is it that mag must be stronger? Isn't it play how you want? Do you mean play how you want but don't count on completing the really cool stuff unless you make a top tier mag character? Cause that's what it's starting to sound like
Like, I get that the stamblade is a difficult class to play but that's what makes it fun. It's challenging. Shouldn't the reward be great dps??

Tyrant_Tim

master_vanargand wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

Concealed Weapon: This morph now grants Major Berserk for 7-10 seconds based on rank, rather than a unique 7-10% damage done when meeting its conditions.

PvE Nightblade DPS is said to be over 10% weaker than top tier classes.
And Nightblade is 10% weaker as Major Berserk is gained from sorc's atro ult.
What can be said for sure is that Nightblade DPS has become the weakest class in PvE.

ZoS want to annihilate PvE Nightblade DPS?
DPS ... no! Healer ... no! Tank ... DK and Necro!
What should PvE Nightblade do? Answer: Nothing.

Oh my Sithis ...

I’m not going to pretend to claim I know where Nightblade DDs are in the race for most damage, but Magicka Nightblade is still one of, if not the easiest two-bar solo arena class in the game through the use of Swallow Soul and Assassin’s Will, and with an added Reaper’s Mark healing you to full health every kill… you also have unlimited sustain with Leeching Strikes and Debilitate.

What is concerning, is your claim that Nightblades are not incredible supports right now… they are easily top three for each of the support roles due to their extremely easy AoE access to both Minor and Major Cowardice, Minor Vulnerability, and Major Expedition, Minor Endurance, Minor Intellect and are number 1 for support in Stamina comp groups due to their unhybridized Minor Savagery.

There’s no other class with as much group support as Nightblade right now; only lagging behind Dragonknight or Arcanist due to their ability to burst heal off of their max health.

master_vanargand

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

Concealed Weapon: This morph now grants Major Berserk for 7-10 seconds based on rank, rather than a unique 7-10% damage done when meeting its conditions.

PvE Nightblade DPS is said to be over 10% weaker than top tier classes.
And Nightblade is 10% weaker as Major Berserk is gained from sorc's atro ult.
What can be said for sure is that Nightblade DPS has become the weakest class in PvE.

ZoS want to annihilate PvE Nightblade DPS?
DPS ... no! Healer ... no! Tank ... DK and Necro!
What should PvE Nightblade do? Answer: Nothing.

Oh my Sithis ...

I’m not going to pretend to claim I know where Nightblade DDs are in the race for most damage, but Magicka Nightblade is still one of, if not the easiest two-bar solo arena class in the game through the use of Swallow Soul and Assassin’s Will, and with an added Reaper’s Mark healing you to full health every kill… you also have unlimited sustain with Leeching Strikes and Debilitate.

What is concerning, is your claim that Nightblades are not incredible supports right now… they are easily top three for each of the support roles due to their extremely easy AoE access to both Minor and Major Cowardice, Minor Vulnerability, and Major Expedition, Minor Endurance, Minor Intellect and are number 1 for support in Stamina comp groups due to their unhybridized Minor Savagery.

There’s no other class with as much group support as Nightblade right now; only lagging behind Dragonknight or Arcanist due to their ability to burst heal off of their max health.

Solo play? Hahaha, nice joke.
For solo, sorc is the easiest, and for PvP, DK is the strongest.

Your opinion is wrong.

PvE on forums is the Trial.
I'm tired of all the suggestions to further bully the currently weakest PvE Nightblade DPS.

MindOfTheSwarm

Nightblade is good in PvP for multiple roles. It’s not all about the gank.

For instance, Power Extraction is arguably the best AoE spammable in the game after Whirling Blades.
It’s about the only spammable that can apply Cowardice.
NB do need love in PvE however but it’s not clear for me on how that can be done.

Saint-Ange

like it wasn't enough now we're going to mute into bloody glow-worms:
Public Test Server > [Nightblade] Grim Focus and Morphs perpetual red glow
imma just go back to WoW to play a brat

Sikon

So the top two painpoints for Nightblade are hard to conclude because there are a lot of incoherences with this class since the "hybridization". It feels like for Nightblades this "hybridization process" is unfinished.

To specifiy this and come to at least "two painpoints".

1. At this moment, there is no real choice between Magicka based or Stamina based builds. Basically you get forced into a Magicka based build because of the much better morphs on magicka class abilities ("Relentless Focus", "Concealed Weapon"). Also Class passives like "Magicka Flood" are missing the hybridization completely. From this pain point you can go on deeper and deeper, why this class gets sustain issues on Stamina based builds and so on.
There are already alot of Forum Threads about it and I did also myself a Thread where the Problem is explained.

2.The second painpoint for me which is really annyoing has something to do with the skill cap Nightblades need. Nightblades are a unique class which need a real high skill to shine.
You have the most difficult rotation in the game atm, you need to play a lightattack minigame for your "Focus Bow Proc" burst which will be your highest Damage output and you need to "master" light attack weaving in the game.
Nightblades are designed as an assassin, coming out of stealth or striking from the back with high critbases abilities which require a on point burst at the exact right second. If you fail in this aspects, you will lose and the class will not shine that much. If you master it, the class becomes strong especially in PvP.

You can already see if you start this thread about Nightblades the people directly get triggered in the PvP Aspect of the game. Nightblades can burst with a good timed 30k "Relentless Focus" proc yea, but that requires a much higher skill than most people think. They shine in PvP if perfectly played, but if you waste your "Bursts" Nightblades instantly gonna lose.
I think the community is often triggered by the high burst potential of Nightblades but they don't see the work behind it. That's a real painpoint because it affects the class at all.

The balance in PvE is something completely different, here the Nightblades are far behind other classes. You can just check ESO Logs and see the underrepresentation of NBs. If they are played in Raids then mostly as Healers and still there they are swapped out for Arcanists now.

So you also need to make a difference between NBs in PvP and NBs in PvE. That's a real painpoint that people can not see the difference. NBs in PvE need much more love, easier playstyle, improved class abilities and passives / Ultis which make them useful for Group content.

That's my few words for Nightblades and the two painpoints. (there are alot more)

master_vanargand

@ZOS_Kevin

PvE Nightblade DPS is over 10% lower DPS than other classes.

Other classes are 130k - 139k DPS without Major Berserk (damage+10%).
PvE Nightblade is about 130k DPS using Concealed Weapon's Major Berserk. (about 120k DPS if not using Concealed Weapon.)

Major Berserk can be obtained from the Sorcerer's Atronach ult in Trials.
Therefore, PvE Nightblade DPS is the weakest class in Trials.
PvE Nightblade DPS has the worst single DPS and the worst AoE DPS either.

I've come up with some ideas to fix PvE Nightblade DPS issues and catch up with other classes.

[My idea list]

1. Increase the duration of the passive ability Dark Veil to 4 seconds.
2. Make Weapon and Spell Damage gained by Grim Focus a static value, not related to the stack.
3. Increase Death Stroke's duration and reduce its ult cost.
4. Change all passive abilities like "Pressure Points" to "While slotted on either bar".
5. Passive ability "Magicka Flood" increases stamina and magicka. (Rename it to "Power Flood".)
6. Change all stamina morph skills of Nightblade such as Killer's Blade to "Bleed Damage" and unify them. (Incapacitating Strike, Killer's Blade, Ambush, Relentless Focus, Surprise Attack, Power Extraction.)

ramdrop

master_vanargand wrote: »

Therefore, PvE Nightblade DPS is the weakest class in Trials.
PvE Nightblade DPS has the worst single DPS and the worst AoE DPS either.

Clearly you don’t play as a Warden

master_vanargand

ramdrop wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Therefore, PvE Nightblade DPS is the weakest class in Trials.
PvE Nightblade DPS has the worst single DPS and the worst AoE DPS either.

Clearly you don’t play as a Warden

As you say, Warden DPS needs more love, but this is an official Nightblade thread so no further Warden discussion.

DrNukenstein

We got it a little too good the past few patches, so now this thread has to be about what we're okay with giving up.

-Dodge cost reduction on blur. Too much potential mitigation and stam economy for brawler blades that are set up to take hits

-MProph/Sav on cloak. It's an experiment, it's kind of nice that the premier crit class can get it's crit buffs itself. It's also unecessary, after several weeks of the change Camo hunter has made its way back on my bar because it's a lot of free damage. About 8% damage. What ever skill takes it's place has to be worth more than about 8% damage. If it is a damage skill, it has to be worth more than 8% of your damage to replace Camo.

- Major berserk on concealed weapon. Major berserk is big. It's really big. It should be made less accessible for everyone, but definitely removed from spammables. If anything changing it to minor berserk would help keep camo hunter off the bars of magblades with MProph/Sav on cloak

-Death stroke damage amp. It's a potent and iconic debuff and very assassiny. Is it really necessary though? Consider this: not only is it a cheap hard hitting single target attack that is almost always ready, both morphs have very potent passives that either boost sustain or ultimate generation, they also have your choice of MDefile or a stun. For the price of that damage amp, incap could potentially stun at base ult or soul harvest could have Balorgh(lite) built in.

-Grim focus tooltips: Scourge could be dropped down to 1.6x a spammable, and Will could be dropped down to 1.75x and they would still hit like a stacked molten whip from range.

Lozeenge

i personally want the buff taken off CW and, if you're not willing to make other mag spammables more viable, do something else with it that makes sense. no amount of buffs to surprise attack is going to solve this problem. major berserk is still a really strong buff and you're not going to be seeing sorcerers running atros in every content you do.

stamblades are just not fun to play right now because if you're going for optimal damage you need to cast a skill intended as a spammable for a 10 second buff that doesn't even give you a DoT for your troubles. magblades can simply just use it like normal and get the easier rotation, constant berserk up-time, and free room on their bar for a flex skill.

the skill is and will never be used as they intended, especially on stamina builds, so obviously something must be wrong with it! it shouldn't take four more updates to fix nightblade hybridization.

JerBearESO

1. Cloak is both too strong and too weak due to bugs and design flaw. Right now, several abilities and set procs, as well as NPC behaviors, are forcing the NB out of cloak when they aren't supposed to. One of the mages guild skills that is a DoT does this and lasts for over 20 seconds, so it's essentially a detection that never ends because it's easy to reapply.

Meanwhile cloak without detection is insanely OP and in need of a built in counter measure, such as the suggested ramping cost perhaps.

2. The incap to spec arrow combo is pretty OP, but specifically makes the victor always the one with a better connection. The combo can be counterplayed with a better connection, but actually cannot be counterplayed with a worse connection than the opponents because the arrow will hit during the break free animation in this case.

Thus, a simply opener into finisher under stun combo has no place in this game. Move power out of this combo and give it elsewhere in the NB kit.

P.S. These are PvP pain points, of course. Also yes I see this is a Necro thread but hey it's relevant to bring up these ongoing issues

master_vanargand

The changes to Nightblade in Update 39 had both good and bad points.

Incapacitating Strike: Fixed a VERY old and very annoying bug where the special version of this Ultimate could fail to be activated in some cases where your Ultimate cost was being affected by bonuses or penalties that changed the original 120 Ultimate cost requirement for the Stun. The tooltip, animations, and ability cast will now always update their cost and activation phases when you meet their augmented cost values.

Grim Focus:
This ability and its morphs no longer need to be activated to generate stacks, as they will now generate stacks any time you meet their original requirements simply with the ability slotted on either bar.
Increased the cost of the special activate to 1890, up from 1350, to make up for the fact that you no longer need to activate the buff portion of these abilities.
These abilities now all use consistent naming and icons, rather than having separate names for the active versus stacking portions.
Updated the tooltips to mention that fully charged Heavy Attacks grant double stacks.
These abilities will now highlight on your ability bar when you are at full stacks, rather than becoming a different icon.

Relentless Focus:
This morph now increases the amount of Weapon and Spell Damage each stack grants to 80 at rank IV, rather than increasing the duration of the buff, since the buff no longer has a duration.
This morph now costs 1377, rather than 1148.

Shadow Cloak: This ability and the Shadowy Disguise morph now also grant Major Savagery and Prophecy for slotting on either bar, to help them offer more functionality outside of PvP and to ensure the abilities still offer something when they are being countered.

Dark Cloak: This morph now swaps the Major Savagery and Prophecy to Minor Protection for slotting on either bar, rather than granting it for 10 seconds after casting the ability.

Surprise Attack: Reduced the cooldown of the guaranteed Critical Strike on this morph to 3 seconds, down from 4.

Concealed Weapon: This morph now grants Major Berserk for 7-10 seconds based on rank, rather than a unique 7-10% damage done when meeting its conditions.

Changes to Grim Focus and Shadow Cloak are now quality of life improvements.
However, Concealed Weapon's Major Berserk is like a curse.
I think they should remove Major Berserk and stack small changes to make up for the lost "damage+10%".
For example, use the following method.

master_vanargand wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

PvE Nightblade DPS is over 10% lower DPS than other classes.

Other classes are 130k - 139k DPS without Major Berserk (damage+10%).
PvE Nightblade is about 130k DPS using Concealed Weapon's Major Berserk. (about 120k DPS if not using Concealed Weapon.)

Major Berserk can be obtained from the Sorcerer's Atronach ult in Trials.
Therefore, PvE Nightblade DPS is the weakest class in Trials.
PvE Nightblade DPS has the worst single DPS and the worst AoE DPS either.

I've come up with some ideas to fix PvE Nightblade DPS issues and catch up with other classes.

[My idea list]

1. Increase the duration of the passive ability Dark Veil to 4 seconds.
2. Make Weapon and Spell Damage gained by Grim Focus a static value, not related to the stack.
3. Increase Death Stroke's duration and reduce its ult cost.
4. Change all passive abilities like "Pressure Points" to "While slotted on either bar".
5. Passive ability "Magicka Flood" increases stamina and magicka. (Rename it to "Power Flood".)
6. Change all stamina morph skills of Nightblade such as Killer's Blade to "Bleed Damage" and unify them. (Incapacitating Strike, Killer's Blade, Ambush, Relentless Focus, Surprise Attack, Power Extraction.)

Stacking increasing passive ability values is pretty straightforward.
Also, the method of increasing duration (and reduce ultimate cost.) of "Death Stroke" improves DPS in PvE, but it is not so important in PvP, so it is well balanced.
Nightblade should be able to produce good results with a simple idea.

FoJul

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Nightblade. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

#1 Ranged Magblade is very weak compared to melee blade AS A WHOLE. The ranged stun is bad, the ranged execute is bad, Swallow soul is bad, there is no ranged ultimate, and some of the passives are completely useless to range blade.

#2 The Damage over Time abilities seem underperforming.

Jimbru

Despite being my main, my Nightblade is visibly the weakest or second weakest of my characters as PVE DPS (my mag warden also needs help). NB lacks the immediacy and lethal opening burst one would expect of an assassin class, while also requiring complex rotations with non-class skills for sustained damage. I have tried staff mag, DW stam, 2H stam, bow stam; the stam builds are somewhat more bursty than the mag ones, but I still always feel underpowered, especially when I see Templar jabs and Arcanist beams just erasing mobs at will. Probably the closest you'll get to that with a Nightblade is a 2H stam build using Stampede and Carve. So I guess you could say the biggest things that need improved on Nightblade are TOO LITTLE DAMAGE for TOO MUCH COMPLEXITY.

Foxtrot39

Jimbru wrote: »

Despite being my main, my Nightblade is visibly the weakest or second weakest of my characters as PVE DPS (my mag warden also needs help). NB lacks the immediacy and lethal opening burst one would expect of an assassin class, while also requiring complex rotations with non-class skills for sustained damage. I have tried staff mag, DW stam, 2H stam, bow stam; the stam builds are somewhat more bursty than the mag ones, but I still always feel underpowered, especially when I see Templar jabs and Arcanist beams just erasing mobs at will. Probably the closest you'll get to that with a Nightblade is a 2H stam build using Stampede and Carve. So I guess you could say the biggest things that need improved on Nightblade are TOO LITTLE DAMAGE for TOO MUCH COMPLEXITY.

You mainly pointed out NB has no decent AOE damage spammables or sustained damage abilities, also jabs and beam are channeled abilities which NB has none at all that have its own pros & cons

Good single target damage is all nice, but other classes can do nearly the same as an AOE/cone attack effectively making those better overall

Tweaking damage itself is not gonna do much for NB beside buffing them in PVP for marginaly closing the gap on the PVE issue, they need to rework entire skills mechanics like consumming darkness to make them more viable or less clunky to fully use

master_vanargand

Nightblade remains unchanged in PTS.
To be honest, I'm in despair.
I suspect the game creators enjoy tormenting Nightblade.

Sikon

My Sub is already canceled, especially as I saw the new "class sets" which only prefer DK. Dragonknights set is most overpowered other class sets are useless. The Nightblade set especially is a joke. Wear it if you want to lower your DPS

master_vanargand

I'm dissatisfied with the PvE DPS Nightblade.

"Major Berserk (damage +10%)" for "Concealed Weapon" is given by Sorcerer in Trials.
In other words, "Major Berserk" for "Concealed Weapon" is useless in PvE end content.
This is one of the reasons why Nightblade is not popular as a PvE DPS in Trials.

PvE Magicka Nightblade DPS (Concealed Weapon) is 130k+ dps, but PvE Stamina Nightblade DPS (Surprise Attack) is 120k dps.
By the way, PvE Stamina Sorcerer DPS (without Major Berserk) is 135k dps.
So Nightblade is actually the lowest and weakest PvE DPS.

[PvE DPS tier list]
Tier1 Arcanist (AoE dps king), Sorcerer (Single dps king).
Tier2 Dragonknight, Templar.
Tier3 Necromancer, Warden.
Tier4 Nightblade (AoE dps weakest and Single dps weakest).

The contradiction that Nightblade, which is supposed to be good at single dps, is the weakest.
The solution is to remove "Major Berserk" from "Concealed Weapon" and enhance other Nightblade skills.

Game creators don't have to do anything difficult.

For example, if you reduce the ultimate cost of Nightblade's ultimate skill "Death Stroke" from 70 to 60 and increase the duration from 8 seconds to 12 seconds, this will result in a +5% dps increase.

For example, increasing Nightblade's passive skill "Dark Veil" from 2 seconds to 5 seconds will improve DPS and make skill rotation easier.

For example, increasing the "Pressure Points" of Nightblade's passive skill from 438 (Critical ratings +2%) to 657 (Critical ratings +3%) will improve dps.

DPS can be improved by simply changing Nightblade's skill numbers. Very easy, right?
Also, if game creators remove "Major Berserk" from "Concealed Weapon", you might want to give it "Minor Brittle (Crit Damage +10%)" instead, for example.

Also for PvE Nightblade Tank and Healer, need the duration of "Minor Vulnerability" on "Lotus Fan" should be increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
And for PvP Nightblade, need remove the useless "Empower" from "Ambush" and add "Stun". (the old ESO "Ambush")
Also for PvE Nightblade Tank, need give "Minor Courage" of "Power Extraction" to 11 people in the group and make it last 15 seconds.

These requests are the easiest and simplest way for game creators to improve their gameplay experience.
Just change the numbers. That alone will change for the better.

VoidCommander

PvE Nightblades used to have the identity of being one of the most difficult DPS rotations to master, but were the kings of Ranged DPS if you could master it.

Now, you have to master the rotations and timings just to be 10% worse than your average 3 ability Arcanist player. This game should reward complexity with higher damage. I think we will see that in the next updates where ZoS will bring simple rotations like One-Bar heavy attack builds down in power (but still okay for most content) and bring more complicated builds like Necromancer and Nightblade DPS up to much higher thresholds.

Sorcerer right now is a great example of rewarding complicated rotation gameplay. With the Maelstrom 2H changes, and pairing that with their Summoned Daggers, they can reach some of the highest parses in the game! Keep in mind, their access to overpowered pets is still frustrating and those should be nerfed heavily to compensate in my opinion.

master_vanargand

Shadow
Veiled Strike
Concealed Weapon (morph):
This morph now deals 10% increased damage at all times and deals an additional 10% damage for 15 seconds after leaving Stealth or Invisibility, rather than granting Major Berserk.
This morph’s Minor Expedition and conditional requirement now persist through bar swap.

@ZOS_Kevin
I was disappointed when I saw PTS.

master_vanargand wrote: »

I'm dissatisfied with the PvE DPS Nightblade.

"Major Berserk (damage +10%)" for "Concealed Weapon" is given by Sorcerer in Trials.
In other words, "Major Berserk" for "Concealed Weapon" is useless in PvE end content.
This is one of the reasons why Nightblade is not popular as a PvE DPS in Trials.

PvE Magicka Nightblade DPS (Concealed Weapon) is 130k+ dps, but PvE Stamina Nightblade DPS (Surprise Attack) is 120k dps.
By the way, PvE Stamina Sorcerer DPS (without Major Berserk) is 135k dps.
So Nightblade is actually the lowest and weakest PvE DPS.

[PvE DPS tier list]
Tier1 Arcanist (AoE dps king), Sorcerer (Single dps king).
Tier2 Dragonknight, Templar.
Tier3 Necromancer, Warden.
Tier4 Nightblade (AoE dps weakest and Single dps weakest).

The contradiction that Nightblade, which is supposed to be good at single dps, is the weakest.
The solution is to remove "Major Berserk" from "Concealed Weapon" and enhance other Nightblade skills.

Game creators don't have to do anything difficult.

For example, if you reduce the ultimate cost of Nightblade's ultimate skill "Death Stroke" from 70 to 60 and increase the duration from 8 seconds to 12 seconds, this will result in a +5% dps increase.

For example, increasing Nightblade's passive skill "Dark Veil" from 2 seconds to 5 seconds will improve DPS and make skill rotation easier.

For example, increasing the "Pressure Points" of Nightblade's passive skill from 438 (Critical ratings +2%) to 657 (Critical ratings +3%) will improve dps.

DPS can be improved by simply changing Nightblade's skill numbers. Very easy, right?
Also, if game creators remove "Major Berserk" from "Concealed Weapon", you might want to give it "Minor Brittle (Crit Damage +10%)" instead, for example.

Also for PvE Nightblade Tank and Healer, need the duration of "Minor Vulnerability" on "Lotus Fan" should be increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
And for PvP Nightblade, need remove the useless "Empower" from "Ambush" and add "Stun". (the old ESO "Ambush")
Also for PvE Nightblade Tank, need give "Minor Courage" of "Power Extraction" to 11 people in the group and make it last 15 seconds.

These requests are the easiest and simplest way for game creators to improve their gameplay experience.
Just change the numbers. That alone will change for the better.

The above request is a simple way to repair PvE Nightblade DPS.
I believe that game creators are wise people, so if you see this idea, I'm sure you'll agree with me.

Araneae6537

master_vanargand wrote: »

I'm dissatisfied with the PvE DPS Nightblade.

"Major Berserk (damage +10%)" for "Concealed Weapon" is given by Sorcerer in Trials.
In other words, "Major Berserk" for "Concealed Weapon" is useless in PvE end content.
This is one of the reasons why Nightblade is not popular as a PvE DPS in Trials.

PvE Magicka Nightblade DPS (Concealed Weapon) is 130k+ dps, but PvE Stamina Nightblade DPS (Surprise Attack) is 120k dps.
By the way, PvE Stamina Sorcerer DPS (without Major Berserk) is 135k dps.
So Nightblade is actually the lowest and weakest PvE DPS.

[PvE DPS tier list]
Tier1 Arcanist (AoE dps king), Sorcerer (Single dps king).
Tier2 Dragonknight, Templar.
Tier3 Necromancer, Warden.
Tier4 Nightblade (AoE dps weakest and Single dps weakest).

The contradiction that Nightblade, which is supposed to be good at single dps, is the weakest.
The solution is to remove "Major Berserk" from "Concealed Weapon" and enhance other Nightblade skills.

Game creators don't have to do anything difficult.

For example, if you reduce the ultimate cost of Nightblade's ultimate skill "Death Stroke" from 70 to 60 and increase the duration from 8 seconds to 12 seconds, this will result in a +5% dps increase.

For example, increasing Nightblade's passive skill "Dark Veil" from 2 seconds to 5 seconds will improve DPS and make skill rotation easier.

For example, increasing the "Pressure Points" of Nightblade's passive skill from 438 (Critical ratings +2%) to 657 (Critical ratings +3%) will improve dps.

DPS can be improved by simply changing Nightblade's skill numbers. Very easy, right?
Also, if game creators remove "Major Berserk" from "Concealed Weapon", you might want to give it "Minor Brittle (Crit Damage +10%)" instead, for example.

Also for PvE Nightblade Tank and Healer, need the duration of "Minor Vulnerability" on "Lotus Fan" should be increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
And for PvP Nightblade, need remove the useless "Empower" from "Ambush" and add "Stun". (the old ESO "Ambush")
Also for PvE Nightblade Tank, need give "Minor Courage" of "Power Extraction" to 11 people in the group and make it last 15 seconds.

These requests are the easiest and simplest way for game creators to improve their gameplay experience.
Just change the numbers. That alone will change for the better.

Where does that DPS tier list come from? I’ve not seen other PVE lists rank nightblade so low. Usually dragonknight, warden, and/or necro are ranked lowest on the lists I’ve seen from the past few months.

Opinions also seem to differ greatly on the utility of nightblade as a support in PVE. For DPS, I just wish Grim Focus would be reverted. I don’t get how it’s supposed to work now, but I haven’t tried much as I just cannot stand how it looks.

master_vanargand

Araneae6537 wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

I'm dissatisfied with the PvE DPS Nightblade.

"Major Berserk (damage +10%)" for "Concealed Weapon" is given by Sorcerer in Trials.
In other words, "Major Berserk" for "Concealed Weapon" is useless in PvE end content.
This is one of the reasons why Nightblade is not popular as a PvE DPS in Trials.

PvE Magicka Nightblade DPS (Concealed Weapon) is 130k+ dps, but PvE Stamina Nightblade DPS (Surprise Attack) is 120k dps.
By the way, PvE Stamina Sorcerer DPS (without Major Berserk) is 135k dps.
So Nightblade is actually the lowest and weakest PvE DPS.

[PvE DPS tier list]
Tier1 Arcanist (AoE dps king), Sorcerer (Single dps king).
Tier2 Dragonknight, Templar.
Tier3 Necromancer, Warden.
Tier4 Nightblade (AoE dps weakest and Single dps weakest).

The contradiction that Nightblade, which is supposed to be good at single dps, is the weakest.
The solution is to remove "Major Berserk" from "Concealed Weapon" and enhance other Nightblade skills.

Game creators don't have to do anything difficult.

For example, if you reduce the ultimate cost of Nightblade's ultimate skill "Death Stroke" from 70 to 60 and increase the duration from 8 seconds to 12 seconds, this will result in a +5% dps increase.

For example, increasing Nightblade's passive skill "Dark Veil" from 2 seconds to 5 seconds will improve DPS and make skill rotation easier.

For example, increasing the "Pressure Points" of Nightblade's passive skill from 438 (Critical ratings +2%) to 657 (Critical ratings +3%) will improve dps.

DPS can be improved by simply changing Nightblade's skill numbers. Very easy, right?
Also, if game creators remove "Major Berserk" from "Concealed Weapon", you might want to give it "Minor Brittle (Crit Damage +10%)" instead, for example.

Also for PvE Nightblade Tank and Healer, need the duration of "Minor Vulnerability" on "Lotus Fan" should be increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
And for PvP Nightblade, need remove the useless "Empower" from "Ambush" and add "Stun". (the old ESO "Ambush")
Also for PvE Nightblade Tank, need give "Minor Courage" of "Power Extraction" to 11 people in the group and make it last 15 seconds.

These requests are the easiest and simplest way for game creators to improve their gameplay experience.
Just change the numbers. That alone will change for the better.

Where does that DPS tier list come from? I’ve not seen other PVE lists rank nightblade so low. Usually dragonknight, warden, and/or necro are ranked lowest on the lists I’ve seen from the past few months.

Opinions also seem to differ greatly on the utility of nightblade as a support in PVE. For DPS, I just wish Grim Focus would be reverted. I don’t get how it’s supposed to work now, but I haven’t tried much as I just cannot stand how it looks.

At least Nightblade is definitely the weakest.
If next update goes live, you'll be able to watch a video of PvE NB DPS harrowing on YouTube.

KaironBlackbard

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I am a nightblade main. I will try my best to discuss the main things about nightblade that frustrate me.

1: Piercing Mark. Its just not fun. 2 purges to get rid of the effects on a stamina nightblade gross. Reduce invisibility reveal time to 4-8 seconds to mimic when detect potions got changed. Just change the skill. Theres already tons and tons of reveal options in the game but this one is just toxic and lasts for almost a minute!

2: No DoT mitigation if cloak is hard countered. Nightblades, especially medium armour wearers have very little healing. If we cant cloak, dots shred us like butter. I suggest bringing some form of purge back to the nightblade kit, not debuff purge like old dark cloak but at least a dot purge.

Extra

3: Surprise attack is to front loaded. Armour Debuff should only occur when using with cloak stun.

4: Mass Hysteria should not fear players who are not blocking. I feel all the cc's that counter blocking should only cc people who are actively blocking. Making it only strong against people who actively block.

5: Assassination ultimate should gain back its feature to only stun targets under 50% or something like that.

6: Assassination ultimate damage boost should only effect direct damage.

1) The Reveal lasts only 3 seconds, the Breach lasts over a minute, plus you are the only one who can see them, it's not a true reveal
4) It should fear everything, period, end of story. If it can hit through block it can, but most things can't. Most people use it as Crowd CCI and Dont target blockers with it, so don't go hurting their playstyle. Plus everyone can break free anyways.
5&6) Just leave it be. What reason do you have for nerfing this? It's already a near useless ultimate.

KaironBlackbard

Maryal wrote: »

This thread is supposed to be for 'pain points' only ... not solutions, not opinions about what is OP and needs to be nerfed.

* Pain points are not complaints/comments about NBs, their class, or their skills

* Pain points are complaints from NBs about what frustrates them about playing their class (what they are having problems with, what is making it difficult for them to play their class, etc.)

I don't want to call anyone out in particular on this, but I think it's important for it to be said in hopes that this thread doesn't end up like the overwhelming majority of other threads about NBs. Just saying.

YES MY FRIEND

KaironBlackbard

Ok, my pain points.

1. When you cloak and have a dragonknight at 35+ meters away, they can use Critical Rush and then swap to dual wield to annihilate you. Happened to me in Imperial City a couple days ago. I'm by a side door, they were at the giant mid door. I cloak, they gap close, I block, I die. Whatever that range band is. He was outside of my lotus fan anyway. He was leading a zurg so that didn't help.
2. Just a general one here: I wish my effects lasted longer, on all classes. Sword and board Pierce Armor for instance, feels like I'm casting every 5 swings. Obviously I can make more than that in 16 seconds but it feels like only 5 seconds. Feels too short.
3. I also wish I could slot some abilities passively on the bar, changing their stats into a passive effect with a permanently active cost and counting as slotted. That's for all classes as well.
   • Take Siphoning Strikes for instance, Passively slotted it reduces your max magicka (or stamina) by its cost and grants you at least half effectiveness at all times, if not full.

My build is a block build focussed on Thews of the Harbinger. It's damage is miniscule, and in PvP is instantly healed unless the foe is a rookie.
Eventually I will also use Cutting Defense as well, when I have the CP for it.
Kill through blocking, without showing aggression.
Purpose: Avoiding PvP fights in PvP zones so I can explore peacefully, with good passive retaliation against gankers.
I heard that Harbinger was greatly nerfed a while back. I guess that's why its completely useless in a true PvP scenario.
In dealing so little damage, I wish it ignored resistances.
Ideal situation: Foe attacks, I block, they lose interest because I'm not fighting back but they are practically killing themselves when they hit me, so they leave me alone and let me explore in peace.
Or for they who don't realize they are killing themselves, they die to Harbinger.
Currently using Warrior Poet, but might go for a penetration set at some point to bolster that aspect instead.
2.2k, 1600 against NPCs PvP, 300 against players in PvP, 2k vs PvE zones, untested in duels.

Recap:

1. Cloak is useless currently
2. General: Effects feel too short
3. Wish for passive slotting of some abilities, with altered effects in some cases to reflect its passive usage. I'll make a thread for that one.

Question: does the status effect +16 second set apply to breach and vulnerability? If so I might use that one.

Question: Will the update 41 spellcrafting allow us to merge abilities? One I'd like to do is Lotus Fan + Pierce Armor. Perhaps also Defensive Stance as well.

KaironBlackbard

Right, I forgot this one for a minute.

The Guaranteed Crit from Shadowy Disguise ends up proccing on Poison DoTs and ruins my Grimm Focus boost.
Sometimes I will have my stuff ready, I inflict Lotus Fan, Pierce Armor, Cloak for Guaranteed Crit, Then Grimm Focus, and it does flat 8k instead of critting 14k like it should have, because the crit procced on a DoT tick instead.
That it annoying and hampers my attacks too often.
Actually, I'm not running a poison right now, so what's the DoT coming from?
Ice Staff or Sword & Shield Status effect perhaps?
Still, it should only guarantee crit for light attacks, heavy attacks, and direct damage abilities. Not Ground AoE abilities.
Perhaps it's my Veil of Blades doing it to me.
Either way it's one of my biggest pet peeves.
I go to boost my damage ability, and it's used on a pathetic DoT.

Avran_Sylt

After getting back into the game and playing on my NB with an Oakensoul build in the Infinite Archives:

1. Mark Target feels burdensome to cast on sequential targets for Major Breech. The Major Berserk morph feels underwhelming especially in boss fights where there are few if any adds. The heal seems irrelevant (especially against bosses) and misplaced in the assassination tree. Outclassed by Razor Caltrops.

And for some PvP:

2. I don’t like that while invisible in cloak, the eye stays closed while you’re revealed to another player using a detect potion. Most notably when they’re using a detect potion while they themselves are sneaking/invisible.

master_vanargand

Need delete the activation condition for Nightblade's passive skill "Hemorrhage".
In other words, just by acquiring the passive skill, you will permanently acquire all the effects. (Assassination skills do not need to be slotted)
If "Hemorrhage" always gives a buff to the group unconditionally, there are the following advantages.

• Players can freely choose the ultimate skills on their backbar without lowering DPS.
• The server no longer needs to update the effect time of passive skills, reducing internet traffic and CPU work.

I think the same should be done for other classes' passive skills that give unique minor buffs.