[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

JayKwellen

Deathlord92 wrote: »

It’s not just magblade that needs a buff stamblade maybe better in terms of damage but stamblade out of the stam classes is the weakest one unfortunately the whole nb class has been left in it’s awful state feels like combat team dislikes nbs man I wish we had wrobel back 😔

Yeah, I could see that. I haven't played a stamblade so I can't speak to what tribulations my stamina cousins are currently enduring, but I do know that from my perspective stamblades don't really invoke any fear in me.

When I come across one in a BG I usually feel relieved, because I know that team now has far less utility available to them than other classes could offer.

Open world on my sorc, plar, and DK, stamblades were a nuisance but not typically an outright threat, kind of like an annoying mosquito, and nothing like fighting nasty stamden or stamcro. Rarely could they gank me outright. The ones who could just delete me were great players, so I could safely assume they'd dunk on me no matter what class they were playing.

As a magblade I do honestly fear them a bit more now though. Since I'm squishy they can kill me quickly if I'm caught out of position (but then again, every class can do that to me now so its not a stamblade exclusive either), and the ones with the rolly-cloaky playstyle make landing a Soul Harvest or Merciless a truly aneurysm inducing experience.

Even still, stamblades should be feared in general in 1v1/small scale type situations shouldn't they? They're supposed to be quick, bursty hitters that strike fast and move on, that's the power fantasy and internal class logic is it not? Unfortunately it just seems, from an outside observers point of view at least, that the fantasy doesn't align with reality. Instead you end up with a class that has a slow unreliable ultimate and a clunky burst system that is the exact opposite of "quick strike". Such a shame.

MindOfTheSwarm

JayKwellen wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

It’s not just magblade that needs a buff stamblade maybe better in terms of damage but stamblade out of the stam classes is the weakest one unfortunately the whole nb class has been left in it’s awful state feels like combat team dislikes nbs man I wish we had wrobel back 😔

Yeah, I could see that. I haven't played a stamblade so I can't speak to what tribulations my stamina cousins are currently enduring, but I do know that from my perspective stamblades don't really invoke any fear in me.

When I come across one in a BG I usually feel relieved, because I know that team now has far less utility available to them than other classes could offer.

Open world on my sorc, plar, and DK, stamblades were a nuisance but not typically an outright threat, kind of like an annoying mosquito, and nothing like fighting nasty stamden or stamcro. Rarely could they gank me outright. The ones who could just delete me were great players, so I could safely assume they'd dunk on me no matter what class they were playing.

As a magblade I do honestly fear them a bit more now though. Since I'm squishy they can kill me quickly if I'm caught out of position (but then again, every class can do that to me now so its not a stamblade exclusive either), and the ones with the rolly-cloaky playstyle make landing a Soul Harvest or Merciless a truly aneurysm inducing experience.

Even still, stamblades should be feared in general in 1v1/small scale type situations shouldn't they? They're supposed to be quick, bursty hitters that strike fast and move on, that's the power fantasy and internal class logic is it not? Unfortunately it just seems, from an outside observers point of view at least, that the fantasy doesn't align with reality. Instead you end up with a class that has a slow unreliable ultimate and a clunky burst system that is the exact opposite of "quick strike". Such a shame.

Another thing that gripes me in general across the whole game is that there are AOE abilities that deal as much damage as single target abilities. Why? Same with ranged abilities dealing as much damage as melee skills. If you need to put yourself in harms way you should be rewarded for doing so. Of course, that would mean that ranged build struggle with DPS in PVE as their spammable skills would deal less damage but the simple solution is to increase that damage of ground damage over time effects to counter it so there is actually no loss in DPS. You could keep the hard hitting ranged skills that have a cast time. Sure people might be worried about a return of the crazy DoT meta that was before, but this was only an issue due to 'directly applied Dot's' Ground effects simply needed to be moved out of.

JayKwellen

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Another thing that gripes me in general across the whole game is that there are AOE abilities that deal as much damage as single target abilities. Why? Same with ranged abilities dealing as much damage as melee skills. If you need to put yourself in harms way you should be rewarded for doing so. Of course, that would mean that ranged build struggle with DPS in PVE as their spammable skills would deal less damage but the simple solution is to increase that damage of ground damage over time effects to counter it so there is actually no loss in DPS. You could keep the hard hitting ranged skills that have a cast time. Sure people might be worried about a return of the crazy DoT meta that was before, but this was only an issue due to 'directly applied Dot's' Ground effects simply needed to be moved out of.

Yeah, AOE abilities doing more damage to a single individual than single-target abilities is something I've just always felt was...weird. I think leap was a good example of this, my leap tool tip on my DK is something absurd like 25k, which can go even higher with further buffs.

25k for a ranged AOE is amazing, but then I compare it to my 18k soul harvest which is more risky to do (gotta be up close in my light armor), slow (although leap did get nerfed in that regard too), and can be completely mitigated by a roll dodge, and I always miss my leap. Yes, leap costs 45 more ulti, but personally I would be more than happy to have a higher cost 25k tool tip AOE ranged undodgeable soul harvest. That would be quite nice lol. And let's not pretend like spammable AOE major defile isn't a thing that already exists.

Leap isn't the best example of course because it's one of the best ultis in the game in regard to cost vs. damage, but still, I feel it's still a good example of some of the issues that exist in this game between AOE and single-target abilities. Although I don't think AoEs should be nerfed at all, I'm of the opinion that they should mostly all be buffed.

RavenSworn

Nightblades badly need a proper do over. As many of the other posters have said, alot of the core mechanics that define NBs are slowly but surely being given to the other classes or made into a neutral skill that everyone has access to.

so let me ask this pertinent question, what is a nightblade? Like, what is its core defining gameplay? is it stealth gank? is it brawler? What makes a player go, "yeap thats a nightblade."

Teleport strike? Dual wield has it.
Cloak? pots are covering that.
Fear? FG says hi. oh, so did Necro.
Grim Focus mechanic? Sorc has it as well.
one shot burst? Templars, Sorcs and even DKs have it.

So what is a nightblade? because only when we all, as one, agree on what nightblade is can we actually get any focus for the class. Cos, im sure as hell the devs dont know what is a nightblade too.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Gina just confirmed that we wont be getting any class balance changes to any class, so we are stuck with the current balance till August 2020.

Big RIP.

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524116/can-the-nb-community-please-get-an-answer

csparks1

so...It's almost May of 2020 - 2 years since this discussion started. Along with all of my other issues - I have decided to quit paying them any kind of money ever again. Is there a way to get a refund for my pre-purchase of the next dlc? I didn't go through every damn page of posts - but almost everyone I went through had someone asking a dev or gina for an update. No such luck - shows how much they listen.

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Cancelled


If I had known 2 years ago what I know now about their continual promises being outright LIES I would have saved myself HUNDREDS of Dollars. I'm looking at this as an investment in my future.

Araxleon

I would enjoy Dark Cloak to be a invis + purge again or keep the dark cloak heal + purge. It was amazing and they removed it cuz they couldn't fix the bug of it pulling you outta stealth so they reworked it, now the way dark cloak works, it would be a strong add-on.
I also miss when mark had a gimmick, a long time ago (long long ago) mark used to lower your resists roughly by 50%, both you and your target. It was sorta like a 1v1 make us both squishy kinda deal and I loved it.

dorogov.alexeyeb17_ESO

Im leaving, maybe till august.

Haza_212

1) ages ago the removal of in build buffs seemed unnecessary, the Minor berserk and minor endurance on relentless and merciless resolve made sense for the class (a self sustaining rouge damage class). And compared to other classes it doesn't seem to make much sense to have removed them: warden gets Minor berserk just for slotting a skill, and stampars get all three minor resource return buffs just for slotting the a skill. Necromancers get %damage increases and damage mitigation for slotting skills, plus a heap of easy access to strong debuffs. The nightblade class should be self reliant and selfish at the same time, the would match the classic identity of the rogue class.

2) Burst: why keep nerfing the class burst for? Adding cast times and increased travel times to the main damaging skills (incap/ assassins will) seems highly unnecessary, especially compared to classes like the Templar with crescent sweep, a really cheap and fast ultimate, that even hits in conal area. with the change to heavy attack breaking cloak, it makes the burst even more difficult to pull off. Even if it is not how the skill is intended to work, it at least gave a bit of potential to use the skill. Now that it doesn't, and cloak is always buggy and seems to get disabled by any attack, the skill is becoming less and less useful.

Playing the class in battlegrounds and cyrodil it is just turning more and more into a snipe spamming gank class that isn't even all that effecting at that. It's sad to see such a popular class turn to rubbish like it is.

MusCanus

Too bad all that falls on deaf ears on a really dense head.

Haza_212

MusCanus wrote: »

Too bad all that falls on deaf ears on a really dense head.

Yeah RIP NB

newtinmpls

Disclaimer of sorts: I hate classes and think they have NO place in any ES games. Ever.

That being said, I started with Sorcs (loved summoning in Morrowind - I created tons of summoning items and had whole armies of everything I could ...)

I prefer magicka characters.

I do okay with magsorc. Okay with stamsorc (and needed some help from friends/streamers to find a workable buld)

Used to love templars till they nerfed the healing a while ago...they are okay now, but I'm not crazy about them.

Wardens are ... interesting. Mostly play magika because that's what I like. But they seem to be an inherently (thinly disguised) cross between pay-to-win (most of their skills seem OP compared to base class skills) and inherently "hybrid" which doesn't work for vet/advanced play.

Necromancers are more interesting than I thought, and the second class (after sorc) that I can actually get into a stamina version (stam tank necro - still honing her).

DK - hated them till I took the "flame mage/magika" approach.

NB......NB....NB

The class... well. I think it stinks. Only good for sneaking and ganking, and I don't enjoy that. I have two NBs. Stamina - that I pretty much don't play. Magicka that I play as healer, and pretty much don't use NB abilities.

It's crap, the whole class, basically. It's set up to be a gank-fest.

1mirg

dorogov.alexeyeb17_ESO wrote: »

Im leaving, maybe till august.

same

csparks1 wrote: »

Cancelled

If I had known 2 years ago what I know now about their continual promises being outright LIES I would have saved myself HUNDREDS of Dollars. I'm looking at this as an investment in my future.

same

Goregrinder

1mirg wrote: »

dorogov.alexeyeb17_ESO wrote: »

Im leaving, maybe till august.

same

csparks1 wrote: »

Cancelled

If I had known 2 years ago what I know now about their continual promises being outright LIES I would have saved myself HUNDREDS of Dollars. I'm looking at this as an investment in my future.

same

Nice, I just recently came back and subbed plus bought crowns.

John_Falstaff

Wait for it, people, good self-healing and new vampire changes open up wide field of excuses to nerf the class even further.

Thedragonlolitucker

just delete the class at this point

Tommy_The_Gun

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/525297/pts-patch-notes-v6-0-2#latest

Nightblade

Shadow

Veiled Strike: This ability and its morphs now stun and set targets Off Balance when used from the flank of an enemy, rather than when you are stealthed or invisible. This change was done to offset the loss of the ability to activate this portion of the attack with the recent fixes to Heavy Attacks properly breaking invisibility.

Ragnaroek93

Giving a stun to Veiled Strike will help a lot, thx for that. Now the class needs a bit more healing with the upcoming global healing nerf and a bit more pressure as well.

OWLTHEMAD

But the flanking aspect means that the ability really is only going to be decent for ganking and might be finicky at best. Im not sure thats such a good thing, though i respect them for adding it.

Tommy_The_Gun

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

But the flanking aspect means that the ability really is only going to be decent for ganking and might be finicky at best. Im not sure thats such a good thing, though i respect them for adding it.

If server RNG will work that is. Problem with positioning in ESO is that you may see a target from the side / flank, but due to a lag, server sees as if you were attacking from the front.
At least that is my concern.

Anyway, who cares if ZOS just admitted that everything breaking cloak is how it is supposed to be . I can not think of any other class in ESO that can have its core mechanics and defences 100% nullified by a heavy attack...
Not a set.
Not an Ult.
Not a skill.
Not even a slotted skill.

Just a heavy attack.... Imagine if you could heavy attack sorc so they would streak back to you. Or heavy attack Templar to 100% reduce their healing.... idk man... this stinks.

Langeston

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

But the flanking aspect means that the ability really is only going to be decent for ganking and might be finicky at best. Im not sure thats such a good thing, though i respect them for adding it.

I keep seeing people saying that ZOS "added" this to Surprise Attack — I may be missing something, but didn't they just change the conditions under which off balance is procced?

To be honest, this just seems like [yet another] net nerf for most PVP NBs. You now have less control over whether you proc off-balance (if your opponent suddenly turns, you just wasted your CC) and you cannot begin your combo from cloak with a heavy attack anymore.

This is definitely a straight-up nerf to any NB that intended to use Stuhn's even somewhat reliably — and since I don't trust the combat team anymore, I assume that is intentional.

Like I said though, maybe I'm missing something.

Ragnaroek93

Langeston wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

But the flanking aspect means that the ability really is only going to be decent for ganking and might be finicky at best. Im not sure thats such a good thing, though i respect them for adding it.

I keep seeing people saying that ZOS "added" this to Surprise Attack — I may be missing something, but didn't they just change the conditions under which off balance is procced?

To be honest, this just seems like [yet another] net nerf for most PVP NBs. You now have less control over whether you proc off-balance (if your opponent suddenly turns, you just wasted your CC) and you cannot begin your combo from cloak with a heavy attack anymore.

This is definitely a straight-up nerf to any NB that intended to use Stuhn's even somewhat reliably — and since I don't trust the combat team anymore, I assume that is intentional.

Like I said though, maybe I'm missing something.

Camo Hunter works the same way and I can tell you that it's really easy to hit someone from the flank, the radius for this is extremely huge. Therefore I expect that Veiled Strike will be a very realiable stun (haven't tested it on PTS yet tho). And no, it's not a nerf imo because I actually get a stun without having to waste a skill slot and a global cooldown (for fear or that fighters guild thing or by pre using Cloak).

OWLTHEMAD

No after looking at the change your not missing anything. If that change goes live nightblades will simply stop using their own spammable altogether.

Im waiting to see what other nerfs they manage to sneak in.


I may spend this entire content cycle grinding for gold and nothing else.

Pvp looks like its out. Whether i go mag or stam.

Pve is a maybe. Most of my friends have already been chased from the game by the time dragonhold came around. And the new trial has nothing worth farming so thats a one and done.

A few of my friends might comeback if i do, but im not sure i should. This patch just seems miserable for nightblades.

Deathlord92

I’m still unsure if it’s a buff or nerf sure the stun will be useful at times but I see it being a hindrance to if it happens at the wrong time hopefully good nb players will release videos so I can see for myself. I’m just going on a guess atm but I feel like it’s a nerf 🤔

John_Falstaff

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Giving a stun to Veiled Strike will help a lot, thx for that. Now the class needs a bit more healing with the upcoming global healing nerf and a bit more pressure as well.

I'm not sure whether it's sarcasm or not. ^^ But I feel that in PvE I'll end up just kicking stamblades out of dungeons, because a tank can't properly do tank's job when everything around is CC immune, and stamblades bring nothing to the group anyway in terms of group support.

Maulkin

Two points I want to make on recent PTS changes:

1) Heavy attacks breaking invis is in isolation a good change.
It wouldn't be a problem if the class didn't have cast times on every fricking burst damage skill and if its offensive and defensive skills actually worked semi-reliably... which they don't. Might be controversial here, but I say let them fix that instead of crutching on that and let's hope for actual improvements elsewhere

2) Veiled Strike stunning from flank attacks is well-intended but a bad change.
Stuns on spammables or burst skills is a bad idea and ZOS moved away from such things in the past (masterreach, frags, fissure etc). Other people will complain of imbalance and it will get eventually nerfed. Meanwhile from a NB POV, you can't really control when you stun your target now. You could control it with Incap or Fear/Turn Evil before to line up some burst, but your spammable causing a stun will inadvertently mess with you. I personally much preferred coming out of cloak with a Concealed Weapon stun into Merciless or Soul Harvest. More tactful and controlled play imo.

Remove cast-times from all assassination skills, speed up Grim Focus travel time, stop pets and blastbones from breaking cloak constantly and we'll have a working class again.

Maulkin

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Giving a stun to Veiled Strike will help a lot, thx for that. Now the class needs a bit more healing with the upcoming global healing nerf and a bit more pressure as well.

I'm not sure whether it's sarcasm or not. ^^ But I feel that in PvE I'll end up just kicking stamblades out of dungeons, because a tank can't properly do tank's job when everything around is CC immune, and stamblades bring nothing to the group anyway in terms of group support.

Considering how both Flurry and Wrecking Blow are better DPS than Surprise Attack, especially since the only real advantage of SA (easy bash weaving) has been nerfed, then a NB using it deserves an insta-kick whether they are careful to not CC mobs or not.

Thanatos_inside

Veiled Strike: This ability and its morphs now stun and set targets Off Balance when used from the flank of an enemy, rather than when you are stealthed or invisible.

Random control instead of when u really want it? No ty.
Rename class as nerfblade.
ZOS nb is not gank class only.

olsborg

Thanatos_inside wrote: »

Veiled Strike: This ability and its morphs now stun and set targets Off Balance when used from the flank of an enemy, rather than when you are stealthed or invisible.

Random control instead of when u really whant it? No ty.
Rename class as nerfblade.
ZOS nb is not gank class only.

I agree. This change doesnt really sit well with me either. NB needs other buffs tbh, having a cc on their spammable is far down on the list. And the list isnt short.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

But the flanking aspect means that the ability really is only going to be decent for ganking and might be finicky at best. Im not sure thats such a good thing, though i respect them for adding it.

If server RNG will work that is. Problem with positioning in ESO is that you may see a target from the side / flank, but due to a lag, server sees as if you were attacking from the front.
At least that is my concern.

Anyway, who cares if ZOS just admitted that everything breaking cloak is how it is supposed to be . I can not think of any other class in ESO that can have its core mechanics and defences 100% nullified by a heavy attack...
Not a set.
Not an Ult.
Not a skill.
Not even a slotted skill.

Just a heavy attack.... Imagine if you could heavy attack sorc so they would streak back to you. Or heavy attack Templar to 100% reduce their healing.... idk man... this stinks.

Youre misinterpreting the point. NBs could (can in live) heavy attack out of cloak and cloak wouldnt break. Now in PTS they changed it that if youre cloaked and heavy attack someone you will be out of cloak the moment your heavy attack hits ur target.