Maintenance for the week of November 25:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 25, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 7:00AM EST (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 25, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 7:00AM EST (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread
-
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This is only true if you're up against players that don't know what AOE means or have never heard of Magelight/Expert Hunter/Mark. Or Detect potions. For sure, when I was a PVP noob I thought it was the most OP ability in the game. Now it's a minor annoyance that is turned off for 15.7 seconds simply by popping a potion that I always have handy — roughly 12 seconds longer than I need to kill the average NB.Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.1 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭
This is only true if you're up against players that don't know what AOE means or have never heard of Magelight/Expert Hunter/Mark. Or Detect potions. For sure, when I was a PVP noob I thought it was the most OP ability in the game. Now it's a minor annoyance that is turned off for 15.7 seconds simply by popping a potion that I always have handy — roughly 12 seconds longer than I need to kill the average NB.Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
"The average NB" you said a mouthful right there.
Again though, 'in the right hands' still applys. You can pretty much negate a detect pot with an invisability pot. As far as aoes, well its not like you can survive off one skill alone. We do have access to major evasion and a teleport. Though ill concede that is the skills working in conjunction not just cloak for defense.
If you build for speed though. . . Ill just say a fast and cloaky nightblade is hard to catch and kill. Even with detect pots.
Im not really trying to argue here though, just affirm my point about it being more about how you use it.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I agree with you up to a certain point, I was just saying that once you get into a high MMR BG against 8 people that know what they're doing, I think it's kind of difficult to say "cloak is supreme" anymore. There are plenty of defensive abilities that, while maybe not as flashy, are definitely more reliable than something that can be defeated for a quarter of a minute by just drinking a potion. (Something that may become far more common next patch with the vampirism changes.)
This is only true if you're up against players that don't know what AOE means or have never heard of Magelight/Expert Hunter/Mark. Or Detect potions. For sure, when I was a PVP noob I thought it was the most OP ability in the game. Now it's a minor annoyance that is turned off for 15.7 seconds simply by popping a potion that I always have handy — roughly 12 seconds longer than I need to kill the average NB.Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
"The average NB" you said a mouthful right there.
Again though, 'in the right hands' still applys. You can pretty much negate a detect pot with an invisability pot. As far as aoes, well its not like you can survive off one skill alone. We do have access to major evasion and a teleport. Though ill concede that is the skills working in conjunction not just cloak for defense.
If you build for speed though. . . Ill just say a fast and cloaky nightblade is hard to catch and kill. Even with detect pots.
Im not really trying to argue here though, just affirm my point about it being more about how you use it.
As far as speed I completely agree. For me, 3 Swift is better defense than 7 Impen; it's just unfortunate how much damage you have to give up for it. (Although that might also not be as useful next patch either if lots of people decide to play with that new ring that gives you the equivalent of the Steed + 7 divines.)0 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭
I agree with you up to a certain point, I was just saying that once you get into a high MMR BG against 8 people that know what they're doing, I think it's kind of difficult to say "cloak is supreme" anymore. There are plenty of defensive abilities that, while maybe not as flashy, are definitely more reliable than something that can be defeated for a quarter of a minute by just drinking a potion. (Something that may become far more common next patch with the vampirism changes.)
This is only true if you're up against players that don't know what AOE means or have never heard of Magelight/Expert Hunter/Mark. Or Detect potions. For sure, when I was a PVP noob I thought it was the most OP ability in the game. Now it's a minor annoyance that is turned off for 15.7 seconds simply by popping a potion that I always have handy — roughly 12 seconds longer than I need to kill the average NB.Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
"The average NB" you said a mouthful right there.
Again though, 'in the right hands' still applys. You can pretty much negate a detect pot with an invisability pot. As far as aoes, well its not like you can survive off one skill alone. We do have access to major evasion and a teleport. Though ill concede that is the skills working in conjunction not just cloak for defense.
If you build for speed though. . . Ill just say a fast and cloaky nightblade is hard to catch and kill. Even with detect pots.
Im not really trying to argue here though, just affirm my point about it being more about how you use it.
As far as speed I completely agree. For me, 3 Swift is better defense than 7 Impen; it's just unfortunate how much damage you have to give up for it. (Although that might also not be as useful next patch either if lots of people decide to play with that new ring that gives you the equivalent of the Steed + 7 divines.)
I plan to use that ring and triple swift. For me that will result in a damage buff because ill be able to give up steed. Im going to need to refigure out my healing strategy though. Their nerfing brp resto so ill need to figure out how to up the power of my heals. Healing on nightblades in pvp is abysmal if you get your damage from max mag sets.
I agree though, cloak isnt exactly good for 1vx unless you also use shade. I run high mmr bgs myself. My strategy is to circle a group like a vulture and catch the dude who gets too far or is not paying attention. Its not like you should try to take on 4 to 8 people by your lonesome. Once they start fighting each other its pretty easy to pull one from a group.
Occasionally ill even use silver leash to assist with this. Though its a lot of stam for a mag toone to use so thats always a gamble.0 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.1 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.0 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In [snip] mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on May 18, 2020 3:07PM2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.0 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭I would agree to just receiving a straight upgrade to damage as an alternative though. Doesnt make sense for the class to be so impotent in that regard.0
-
Sosderosii✭✭✭
But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard
The problem is that the nightblade can't effectively cloak in combat, it takes at least three tries and that while running to make the damn cloak not break. Maybe it should heal in case the cloak fails to remain active at least 0.5 or 1 second.
Edited by Sosderosii on May 17, 2020 5:59PM2 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
If a NB could disappear for 2 seconds and come back full HP, that's a L2P issue from your opponent, plain and simple...
I know [snip] you think "invisibility > any other tactic in the game". You have to open your eyes. Invisibility has been just "1 more tactic" for the past 25 years but never "the best tactic".
As I said, there's 2 options, give us the same healing capabilities that all the other classes already have and make it work with invisibility, or just sky rocket our damage to actually be the "assassin class" (remove cast times, give back Minor Berserker, give back Major Fracture on Surprise Attack, give Major Breach on Swallow Soul, let Mass Hysteria snare after fear, give Mark Target an unique damage debuff, like 5% more damage against the marked target, etc, etc).
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on May 18, 2020 3:06PM4 -
Iron_Blurr✭✭✭✭Move Veiled strike and morphs to the assassination tree and move and move Blur and morphs to the shadow tree.
Assassination passives benefit damage dealers. Shadow passives benefit tanks. This would be a nice quality of life change.
This would also fit the theme of the skill lines much better.
Another more minor change would be for grim focus to do SOMETHING after you activate it. Right now it does nothing until you light attack a target. I don't care how useless the buff is. Just make it do SOMETHING because right now it feels like it costs resources and does nothing unless you meet another separate requirement.
Another option would be for activating the grim focus buff to be free of cost until you activate the bow proc. Sort of like mark target or Elemental drain.
Maybe another option could be for it to be passively active while "slotted" on your bar but it requires a button press and consumes resources for you to shoot off the bow proc. In this way it would be passively "ON" at all times while slotted sort of like Inner light or Camo hunter.Edited by Iron_Blurr on May 17, 2020 10:30PM2 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭Iron_Blurr wrote: »Move Veiled strike and morphs to the assassination tree and move and move Blur and morphs to the shadow tree.
Assassination passives benefit damage dealers. Shadow passives benefit tanks. This would be a nice quality of life change.
This would also fit the theme of the skill lines much better.
Another more minor change would be for grim focus to do SOMETHING after you activate it. Right now it does nothing until you light attack a target. I don't care how useless the buff is. Just make it do SOMETHING because right now it feels like it costs resources and does nothing unless you meet another separate requirement.
Another option would be for activating the grim focus buff to be free of cost until you activate the bow proc. Sort of like mark target or Elemental drain.
Maybe another option could be for it to be passively active while "slotted" on your bar but it requires a button press and consumes resources for you to shoot off the bow proc. In this way it would be passively "ON" at all times while slotted sort of like Inner light or Camo hunter.
I been asking Grim Focus to be passively active for years. It should be "while slotted it counts every light/heavy attack..." And just manually cast the Spectral Bow once you reach 5 stacks, but it should passively count each light attack.
Because right now is wasting a GCD for nothing, because the skill does nothing until the caster start attacking.
If Devs ever rework NB, this should be one of the first things to change.Edited by Chelo on May 18, 2020 4:15AM7 -
Saubon✭✭✭I been asking Grim Focus to be passively active for years. It should be "while slotted it counts every light/heavy attack..." And just manually cast the Spectral Bow once you reach 5 stacks, but it should passively count each light attack.
This would make stacks proc only on a front bar unless you slot that skill on your backbar aswell. I think they could make bow refresh grim focus to a full duration instead0 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭I been asking Grim Focus to be passively active for years. It should be "while slotted it counts every light/heavy attack..." And just manually cast the Spectral Bow once you reach 5 stacks, but it should passively count each light attack.
This would make stacks proc only on a front bar unless you slot that skill on your backbar aswell. I think they could make bow refresh grim focus to a full duration instead
That's a good solution too. The point is the first GCD does nothing, only waste magicka.
Or they can find a way to make it count for both bars, like been a passive from Assassination Skill Tree or something else. Their job is to figure out this kind of stuff, we just give ideas.1 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
If a NB could disappear for 2 seconds and come back full HP, that's a L2P issue from your opponent, plain and simple...
I know you have been brain washed too, and you think "invisibility > any other tactic in the game". You have to open your eyes. Invisibility has been just "1 more tactic" for the past 25 years but never "the best tactic".
As I said, there's 2 options, give us the same healing capabilities that all the other classes already have and make it work with invisibility, or just sky rocket our damage to actually be the "assassin class" (remove cast times, give back Minor Berserker, give back Major Fracture on Surprise Attack, give Major Breach on Swallow Soul, let Mass Hysteria snare after fear, give Mark Target an unique damage debuff, like 5% more damage against the marked target, etc, etc).
So. . . Calling people brainwashed is a bit immature. But im going to let it pass.
Ive been a nightblade main since the begining until recently i didnt even touch other classes. Im speaking from experience. Im speaking based on what I know I am capable of. In the first place the failings of cloak right now are due to bugs, and balancing around bugs never works out well. At most i would advocate buffing the healing we already have available or granting some conditional damage buff to swallow soul that we may get respectable healing from that.
Heck, the whole class needs work, but giving us a selfish burst jeal without reprecussions i just dont think is the way. Well end up paying for it hard the very next patch.0 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
If a NB could disappear for 2 seconds and come back full HP, that's a L2P issue from your opponent, plain and simple...
I know you have been brain washed too, and you think "invisibility > any other tactic in the game". You have to open your eyes. Invisibility has been just "1 more tactic" for the past 25 years but never "the best tactic".
As I said, there's 2 options, give us the same healing capabilities that all the other classes already have and make it work with invisibility, or just sky rocket our damage to actually be the "assassin class" (remove cast times, give back Minor Berserker, give back Major Fracture on Surprise Attack, give Major Breach on Swallow Soul, let Mass Hysteria snare after fear, give Mark Target an unique damage debuff, like 5% more damage against the marked target, etc, etc).
So. . . Calling people brainwashed is a bit immature. But im going to let it pass.
Ive been a nightblade main since the begining until recently i didnt even touch other classes. Im speaking from experience. Im speaking based on what I know I am capable of. In the first place the failings of cloak right now are due to bugs, and balancing around bugs never works out well. At most i would advocate buffing the healing we already have available or granting some conditional damage buff to swallow soul that we may get respectable healing from that.
Heck, the whole class needs work, but giving us a selfish burst jeal without reprecussions i just dont think is the way. Well end up paying for it hard the very next patch.
You join the forums on November 2019 and you play on Xbox One... I understand why you think you are ''capable off'' but PC is a whole different game. And to make it clear, Im NOT baiting, this are just facts.
Everything you think you can do with a NB, a Sorc can do it better (again facts). Remove the ''Invisibility'' variable, and EVERYTHING a NB can do, could be done the same or BETTER with any other class.
Right now NB doesnt stand out on ANYTHING... Not on Healing, not on AoE Damage, Not on Tanking, Not on Supporting, heck not even in Single Target Damage and thats suppose to be our trademark... Right now the only thing that NB has, that other classes dont, is invisibility, and soon everyone will have access to it because of Vampirism...
So its simple, make NB on par with all the other classes (at least the same healing capabilities) or just sky rocket our single target damage to be consolidate as the ''assassin class'' again.3 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
Well thats not true, this is only a bi-product of players refusing to use gap closers then complaining when Sorc's escape them when all your relying on is sprinting or cc's.
I manage to chase down Sorc's all the time, the amount of resources used to Streak is much more costly than Gap Closers. It's also only a 15m range when a Gap Closer is 22m, this is intentional. When your on the ass of a Streaking Sorc, they can't use Dark Exchange/Dark Deal, if they do, you can punish them and if they are using those, they're no longer Streaking so whats the problem?
That's the counter. Your refusing to use it.
You join the forums on November 2019 and you play on Xbox One... I understand why you think you are ''capable off'' but PC is a whole different game. And to make it clear, Im NOT baiting, this are just facts.The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
If a NB could disappear for 2 seconds and come back full HP, that's a L2P issue from your opponent, plain and simple...
I know you have been brain washed too, and you think "invisibility > any other tactic in the game". You have to open your eyes. Invisibility has been just "1 more tactic" for the past 25 years but never "the best tactic".
As I said, there's 2 options, give us the same healing capabilities that all the other classes already have and make it work with invisibility, or just sky rocket our damage to actually be the "assassin class" (remove cast times, give back Minor Berserker, give back Major Fracture on Surprise Attack, give Major Breach on Swallow Soul, let Mass Hysteria snare after fear, give Mark Target an unique damage debuff, like 5% more damage against the marked target, etc, etc).
So. . . Calling people brainwashed is a bit immature. But im going to let it pass.
Ive been a nightblade main since the begining until recently i didnt even touch other classes. Im speaking from experience. Im speaking based on what I know I am capable of. In the first place the failings of cloak right now are due to bugs, and balancing around bugs never works out well. At most i would advocate buffing the healing we already have available or granting some conditional damage buff to swallow soul that we may get respectable healing from that.
Heck, the whole class needs work, but giving us a selfish burst jeal without reprecussions i just dont think is the way. Well end up paying for it hard the very next patch.
A forum account sign up date is not indicative of how long they've played or the experience of a player. Not sure why you chose to focus on that or them playing on console so hard to disprove their opinion. Yes they're different games with potentially different metas, but many players on PC use controllers too, I know I do. Only difference is add-ons for tracking buffs/debuffs and performance.Edited by MashmalloMan on May 19, 2020 1:42AMPC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit2 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
Well thats not true, this is only a bi-product of players refusing to use gap closers then complaining when Sorc's escape them when all your relying on is sprinting or cc's.
I manage to chase down Sorc's all the time, the amount of resources used to Streak is much more costly than Gap Closers. It's also only a 15m range when a Gap Closer is 22m, this is intentional. When your on the ass of a Streaking Sorc, they can't use Dark Exchange/Dark Deal, if they do, you can punish them and if they are using those, they're no longer Streaking so whats the problem?
That's the counter. Your refusing to use it.
You join the forums on November 2019 and you play on Xbox One... I understand why you think you are ''capable off'' but PC is a whole different game. And to make it clear, Im NOT baiting, this are just facts.The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
If a NB could disappear for 2 seconds and come back full HP, that's a L2P issue from your opponent, plain and simple...
I know you have been brain washed too, and you think "invisibility > any other tactic in the game". You have to open your eyes. Invisibility has been just "1 more tactic" for the past 25 years but never "the best tactic".
As I said, there's 2 options, give us the same healing capabilities that all the other classes already have and make it work with invisibility, or just sky rocket our damage to actually be the "assassin class" (remove cast times, give back Minor Berserker, give back Major Fracture on Surprise Attack, give Major Breach on Swallow Soul, let Mass Hysteria snare after fear, give Mark Target an unique damage debuff, like 5% more damage against the marked target, etc, etc).
So. . . Calling people brainwashed is a bit immature. But im going to let it pass.
Ive been a nightblade main since the begining until recently i didnt even touch other classes. Im speaking from experience. Im speaking based on what I know I am capable of. In the first place the failings of cloak right now are due to bugs, and balancing around bugs never works out well. At most i would advocate buffing the healing we already have available or granting some conditional damage buff to swallow soul that we may get respectable healing from that.
Heck, the whole class needs work, but giving us a selfish burst jeal without reprecussions i just dont think is the way. Well end up paying for it hard the very next patch.
A forum account sign up date is not indicative of how long they've played or the experience of a player. Not sure why you chose to focus on that or them playing on console so hard to disprove their opinion. Yes they're different games with potentially different metas, but many players on PC use controllers too, I know I do. Only difference is add-ons for tracking buffs/debuffs and performance.
Lotus Fan is my bread and butter... And the fact that Sorcs can Streak freely in any direction without aiming to a target is what make them scape, not the actual distance.
And I dont want that Mods edit (delete) my comment but yeah... Forum account is an indicative of a lot of things in MMOs, its not different for this one. And for any multiplataform game, the plataform you chose to play is also an indicative. Doesnt matter how much you defend consoles, there's stuff in this type of games that are simply not possible on a Console (that's a fact not a bait). You can tell it just comparing console PvP vs PC PvP.
For example why do you think console players of CoD Warzone doesnt like Crossplay... If this game, for some strange reason, get crossplay, it will be carnage.
And again, this is not a bait, are just facts...Edited by Chelo on May 19, 2020 2:43AM2 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
If a NB could disappear for 2 seconds and come back full HP, that's a L2P issue from your opponent, plain and simple...
I know [snip] you think "invisibility > any other tactic in the game". You have to open your eyes. Invisibility has been just "1 more tactic" for the past 25 years but never "the best tactic".
As I said, there's 2 options, give us the same healing capabilities that all the other classes already have and make it work with invisibility, or just sky rocket our damage to actually be the "assassin class" (remove cast times, give back Minor Berserker, give back Major Fracture on Surprise Attack, give Major Breach on Swallow Soul, let Mass Hysteria snare after fear, give Mark Target an unique damage debuff, like 5% more damage against the marked target, etc, etc).
[edited for baiting]
While i agree magblades deserves burst heal - because all magicka should have acess to burst heals, ability to cast this burst heal while cloaked is extremely strong, to say at least
Cloak is very situational. It can be extremely op and it can be extremely weak depends when you cast it and where you cast it.
But even so, without detect pots there isnt much aoe skills worth using, if you are not zerger. And casting those skills requires usually much more magicka than cloaking unless I know exactly where you are
I will not even mention detection skills which sucks.
As long as nightblade (both stam and mag) remain with invisibility it will suffer with constant nerfs. Invisibility is just too strong. They shouldn't ever add it to MMO game without cooldowns.0 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
Well thats not true, this is only a bi-product of players refusing to use gap closers then complaining when Sorc's escape them when all your relying on is sprinting or cc's.
I manage to chase down Sorc's all the time, the amount of resources used to Streak is much more costly than Gap Closers. It's also only a 15m range when a Gap Closer is 22m, this is intentional. When your on the ass of a Streaking Sorc, they can't use Dark Exchange/Dark Deal, if they do, you can punish them and if they are using those, they're no longer Streaking so whats the problem?
That's the counter. Your refusing to use it.
You join the forums on November 2019 and you play on Xbox One... I understand why you think you are ''capable off'' but PC is a whole different game. And to make it clear, Im NOT baiting, this are just facts.The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
If a NB could disappear for 2 seconds and come back full HP, that's a L2P issue from your opponent, plain and simple...
I know you have been brain washed too, and you think "invisibility > any other tactic in the game". You have to open your eyes. Invisibility has been just "1 more tactic" for the past 25 years but never "the best tactic".
As I said, there's 2 options, give us the same healing capabilities that all the other classes already have and make it work with invisibility, or just sky rocket our damage to actually be the "assassin class" (remove cast times, give back Minor Berserker, give back Major Fracture on Surprise Attack, give Major Breach on Swallow Soul, let Mass Hysteria snare after fear, give Mark Target an unique damage debuff, like 5% more damage against the marked target, etc, etc).
So. . . Calling people brainwashed is a bit immature. But im going to let it pass.
Ive been a nightblade main since the begining until recently i didnt even touch other classes. Im speaking from experience. Im speaking based on what I know I am capable of. In the first place the failings of cloak right now are due to bugs, and balancing around bugs never works out well. At most i would advocate buffing the healing we already have available or granting some conditional damage buff to swallow soul that we may get respectable healing from that.
Heck, the whole class needs work, but giving us a selfish burst jeal without reprecussions i just dont think is the way. Well end up paying for it hard the very next patch.
A forum account sign up date is not indicative of how long they've played or the experience of a player. Not sure why you chose to focus on that or them playing on console so hard to disprove their opinion. Yes they're different games with potentially different metas, but many players on PC use controllers too, I know I do. Only difference is add-ons for tracking buffs/debuffs and performance.
High five nice back up!
Btw @Chelo
Ive been playing since well before orsinium. I originally started my account some time before craglorn released, but didnt hardcore get into the game until orsinium. Ive been full steam ahead ever since. I didnt join the forums until last year because i had to jump through several hoops in order to join. This is true for a lot of xbox players.
Ive been going hard on pvp since clock work city dlc.
Say what you want about the differences between console and pc i know how to use my nightblade. I have no doubt that you do as well and that our differences in opinion are likely due to using them differently.
I dont think that cloak is the most powerful 'strategy' but under representing just what its capable of to push a convenient dialogue about burst heals is something that we will end up paying for in short order should such a thing be implemented.
You keep calling things 'facts' theyre opinions. Valid opinions based on your experience. But still just opinions. And what im telling you is in my experience I get very different results from you. I really dont find sorcs to be all that troublesome. Perhaps its because i build for speed perhaps its because i build for defile or some other reason. But aside from their clearly superior delayed burst tools I dont find sorcs to have that huge of an advantage against nightblades.
I am victorious in over 70% of one on one engagements I end up in. This can be cp or non cp. Imp city, duels, bgs, cyrodill. I can 1vx to some degree, but again if i had a burst heal while in cloak that number would be boosted way up.
Back to my original argument. Its how you use it. And in the right hands a burst heal without some curse with the kiss, would be just too strong in the higher end players hands. You can disagree. But im basing my opinion on what I could with it. And im basing my opinion on the fact that most console dedicated NBs are better than me.
1 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭On the other hand, if your argument was not for a straight up burst heal like other classes have available and insteadbjust for better classed based healing i could get down with that. No one likes being dpendant on the resto.1
-
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
Well thats not true, this is only a bi-product of players refusing to use gap closers then complaining when Sorc's escape them when all your relying on is sprinting or cc's.
I manage to chase down Sorc's all the time, the amount of resources used to Streak is much more costly than Gap Closers. It's also only a 15m range when a Gap Closer is 22m, this is intentional. When your on the ass of a Streaking Sorc, they can't use Dark Exchange/Dark Deal, if they do, you can punish them and if they are using those, they're no longer Streaking so whats the problem?
That's the counter. Your refusing to use it.
You join the forums on November 2019 and you play on Xbox One... I understand why you think you are ''capable off'' but PC is a whole different game. And to make it clear, Im NOT baiting, this are just facts.The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
If a NB could disappear for 2 seconds and come back full HP, that's a L2P issue from your opponent, plain and simple...
I know you have been brain washed too, and you think "invisibility > any other tactic in the game". You have to open your eyes. Invisibility has been just "1 more tactic" for the past 25 years but never "the best tactic".
As I said, there's 2 options, give us the same healing capabilities that all the other classes already have and make it work with invisibility, or just sky rocket our damage to actually be the "assassin class" (remove cast times, give back Minor Berserker, give back Major Fracture on Surprise Attack, give Major Breach on Swallow Soul, let Mass Hysteria snare after fear, give Mark Target an unique damage debuff, like 5% more damage against the marked target, etc, etc).
So. . . Calling people brainwashed is a bit immature. But im going to let it pass.
Ive been a nightblade main since the begining until recently i didnt even touch other classes. Im speaking from experience. Im speaking based on what I know I am capable of. In the first place the failings of cloak right now are due to bugs, and balancing around bugs never works out well. At most i would advocate buffing the healing we already have available or granting some conditional damage buff to swallow soul that we may get respectable healing from that.
Heck, the whole class needs work, but giving us a selfish burst jeal without reprecussions i just dont think is the way. Well end up paying for it hard the very next patch.
A forum account sign up date is not indicative of how long they've played or the experience of a player. Not sure why you chose to focus on that or them playing on console so hard to disprove their opinion. Yes they're different games with potentially different metas, but many players on PC use controllers too, I know I do. Only difference is add-ons for tracking buffs/debuffs and performance.
High five nice back up!
Btw @Chelo
Ive been playing since well before orsinium. I originally started my account some time before craglorn released, but didnt hardcore get into the game until orsinium. Ive been full steam ahead ever since. I didnt join the forums until last year because i had to jump through several hoops in order to join. This is true for a lot of xbox players.
Ive been going hard on pvp since clock work city dlc.
Say what you want about the differences between console and pc i know how to use my nightblade. I have no doubt that you do as well and that our differences in opinion are likely due to using them differently.
I dont think that cloak is the most powerful 'strategy' but under representing just what its capable of to push a convenient dialogue about burst heals is something that we will end up paying for in short order should such a thing be implemented.
You keep calling things 'facts' theyre opinions. Valid opinions based on your experience. But still just opinions. And what im telling you is in my experience I get very different results from you. I really dont find sorcs to be all that troublesome. Perhaps its because i build for speed perhaps its because i build for defile or some other reason. But aside from their clearly superior delayed burst tools I dont find sorcs to have that huge of an advantage against nightblades.
I am victorious in over 70% of one on one engagements I end up in. This can be cp or non cp. Imp city, duels, bgs, cyrodill. I can 1vx to some degree, but again if i had a burst heal while in cloak that number would be boosted way up.
Back to my original argument. Its how you use it. And in the right hands a burst heal without some curse with the kiss, would be just too strong in the higher end players hands. You can disagree. But im basing my opinion on what I could with it. And im basing my opinion on the fact that most console dedicated NBs are better than me.
Your experience is based by playing on Xbox (again not a bait, a fact)... But honestly I don't think you will get it until you play on PC.0 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
Well thats not true, this is only a bi-product of players refusing to use gap closers then complaining when Sorc's escape them when all your relying on is sprinting or cc's.
I manage to chase down Sorc's all the time, the amount of resources used to Streak is much more costly than Gap Closers. It's also only a 15m range when a Gap Closer is 22m, this is intentional. When your on the ass of a Streaking Sorc, they can't use Dark Exchange/Dark Deal, if they do, you can punish them and if they are using those, they're no longer Streaking so whats the problem?
That's the counter. Your refusing to use it.
You join the forums on November 2019 and you play on Xbox One... I understand why you think you are ''capable off'' but PC is a whole different game. And to make it clear, Im NOT baiting, this are just facts.The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
If a NB could disappear for 2 seconds and come back full HP, that's a L2P issue from your opponent, plain and simple...
I know you have been brain washed too, and you think "invisibility > any other tactic in the game". You have to open your eyes. Invisibility has been just "1 more tactic" for the past 25 years but never "the best tactic".
As I said, there's 2 options, give us the same healing capabilities that all the other classes already have and make it work with invisibility, or just sky rocket our damage to actually be the "assassin class" (remove cast times, give back Minor Berserker, give back Major Fracture on Surprise Attack, give Major Breach on Swallow Soul, let Mass Hysteria snare after fear, give Mark Target an unique damage debuff, like 5% more damage against the marked target, etc, etc).
So. . . Calling people brainwashed is a bit immature. But im going to let it pass.
Ive been a nightblade main since the begining until recently i didnt even touch other classes. Im speaking from experience. Im speaking based on what I know I am capable of. In the first place the failings of cloak right now are due to bugs, and balancing around bugs never works out well. At most i would advocate buffing the healing we already have available or granting some conditional damage buff to swallow soul that we may get respectable healing from that.
Heck, the whole class needs work, but giving us a selfish burst jeal without reprecussions i just dont think is the way. Well end up paying for it hard the very next patch.
A forum account sign up date is not indicative of how long they've played or the experience of a player. Not sure why you chose to focus on that or them playing on console so hard to disprove their opinion. Yes they're different games with potentially different metas, but many players on PC use controllers too, I know I do. Only difference is add-ons for tracking buffs/debuffs and performance.
High five nice back up!
Btw @Chelo
Ive been playing since well before orsinium. I originally started my account some time before craglorn released, but didnt hardcore get into the game until orsinium. Ive been full steam ahead ever since. I didnt join the forums until last year because i had to jump through several hoops in order to join. This is true for a lot of xbox players.
Ive been going hard on pvp since clock work city dlc.
Say what you want about the differences between console and pc i know how to use my nightblade. I have no doubt that you do as well and that our differences in opinion are likely due to using them differently.
I dont think that cloak is the most powerful 'strategy' but under representing just what its capable of to push a convenient dialogue about burst heals is something that we will end up paying for in short order should such a thing be implemented.
You keep calling things 'facts' theyre opinions. Valid opinions based on your experience. But still just opinions. And what im telling you is in my experience I get very different results from you. I really dont find sorcs to be all that troublesome. Perhaps its because i build for speed perhaps its because i build for defile or some other reason. But aside from their clearly superior delayed burst tools I dont find sorcs to have that huge of an advantage against nightblades.
I am victorious in over 70% of one on one engagements I end up in. This can be cp or non cp. Imp city, duels, bgs, cyrodill. I can 1vx to some degree, but again if i had a burst heal while in cloak that number would be boosted way up.
Back to my original argument. Its how you use it. And in the right hands a burst heal without some curse with the kiss, would be just too strong in the higher end players hands. You can disagree. But im basing my opinion on what I could with it. And im basing my opinion on the fact that most console dedicated NBs are better than me.
Your experience is based by playing on Xbox (again not a bait, a fact)... But honestly I don't think you will get it until you play on PC.
Alright. Ill bite. Since your making the argument about it being more necessary on pc vs the console, would you elaborate on why? I understand the existence of add ons, and the potential for macros as well as other factors that might alter the nature of gameplay. Can you at least explain what specifically makes it so different that strategy needs to be so fundamentally revised in the two different environments.
Im not being facetious here. Even ive heard from pc expats that the game plays differently and that the strategy is different among the two types of players. Id legit like to know, and how that translates to the topic at hand.1 -
Moose_Scout✭✭✭The main issue that nightblade's class sills are weaker than guild/weapon/armor skills. It is a general principle that nightblade skills should offer something new (cloak does this --when you aren't getting pulled out by pets that is--) or be very slightly stronger than the skills available to everyone (for instance, blur is worse than shuffle)."What a Grand and Intoxicating Innocence"0 -
Moose_Scout✭✭✭...oh and a class that can't survive and has almost no defensive/healing abilities shouldn't have cast times!"What a Grand and Intoxicating Innocence"3
-
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
Well thats not true, this is only a bi-product of players refusing to use gap closers then complaining when Sorc's escape them when all your relying on is sprinting or cc's.
I manage to chase down Sorc's all the time, the amount of resources used to Streak is much more costly than Gap Closers. It's also only a 15m range when a Gap Closer is 22m, this is intentional. When your on the ass of a Streaking Sorc, they can't use Dark Exchange/Dark Deal, if they do, you can punish them and if they are using those, they're no longer Streaking so whats the problem?
That's the counter. Your refusing to use it.
You join the forums on November 2019 and you play on Xbox One... I understand why you think you are ''capable off'' but PC is a whole different game. And to make it clear, Im NOT baiting, this are just facts.The thing that troubles me the most is that in pvp, magicka nightblades do not have a "burst" self heal of any kind (offering only works on allies) . Unlike ALL of the other classes.
The small, weak HOTs are not doing the job in pvp, this results in mageblades being forced to use Blackrose restro staff just to survive.
Even giving up our staple ability of invisibility cloak for the other morph will result in a mediocre hot at best, and will only further hinder our survivability instead of improving it.
So basically what I'm saying is, add a burst heal.
It can be a different skill or at least if we are forced to use shadow cloak and lose our invisibility, at least make it a health percentage burst heal rather than a hot, (just like sorcerers clannfear heal)
At the very least i do agree dark cloak needs to be seriously buffed. It doesnt offer nearly enough to compensate for the lack of cloak.
However its kind of a trap. Nightblades with cloak and a strong readily available burst heal would be seriously op imho. So said burst heal would have to be tied to dark cloak in someway, or would have to have some serious draw back. Used to be that offering could be self cast, and just as you pay for it with a stacking dot now, you would then as well. This gave it a rather organic fatigue system. Im not sure why that couldnt be reintroduced and just rebalanced.
Only one morph of offering is worth using anyway. Could make the other purely a self heal and just keep tweaking the numbers until it is balanced.
Just a simple burst heal that allows us to cast it while invisible...
In the current meta is not op at all, every single class have a way to self heal from 10% to 100% in like 2 seconds except NB. Sorcs can even do it while streak. So NB deserve a self burst heal that also synergy with invisible. Plain and simple.
Dont doubt my nightblade loyalty when i say this but i have to disagree. Without some negative attached to it i just think it would be too strong.
There are two things in pvp that limit me. The need to run a resto, and the lack of decent healing/burst healing.
If you were to add one it would solve both problems, and a third issue with barspace. I could slot double destros and id be pretty much unkillable in 1v1 engagements while bringing far more offensive power.
Im well above average as a player, but by no means pro level. Imagine what a true pro could do?
I think the issue with nightblade heals could be easily solved by buffing dark cloak, swallow soul and siphoning attacks just a little each.
That's the point, Sorcs doesn't have any of this issues, they can use a Destro Staff in front bar and S+B in back bar while having class burst heal, streak, pets, shields, burst damage, executes, cc, etc... Literally Sorcs have EVERYTHING in their kit except invisible...
And look at NB... Is the complete opposite to a Sorc. NB have invisible but is missing EVERYTHING else...
In ZO$ mind and also in new players mind "invisible > every other tactic in the game". And that's why NB got nerfed so hard.
But the thing is, that way of thinking is completely wrong. The game give enough ways to counter invisibility but people refuse to use them. NB deserve a burst heal, and if someone have troubles fighting against invisibility, it's a L2P issue.
And if Devs are not going to give us a burst heal, then sky rocket our damage because we suppose to be the "assassin class". It's been like that in every MMO since forever.
But thats the thing. During that entire time you can still attack the sorc and typically know where they are at. Sure like nightblades they can reset the fight by running away, but you know where they wen and can chase them down. A sorc cant do that to a nightblade. If i can dissapear for 2 seconds and come back at full health without even leaving engagement distance. . . Do you understand how obscenely overpowered that would be? Even with counters all you need is enough time to get that burst off. The only situation where i feel a burst heal is warranted is with detect pots. (I think these should be substantially nerfed and skill based options should be buffed.)Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.
I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.
Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.
Try shimmering shield or streak, still think they’re better.
Shimmer will get you nowhere against melee but add a little speed and you can be kite around a bit playing with just outside melee range and bugs will hit against multiple people to 1vX, even in no-CP. I definitely can’t take on an entire team in a BG as a magblade, MagWarden’s not easy but doable.
Streak, well it’s just a great escape tool. Cloak can get you out of a bind but if someone pursues and spams aoes they’ll eventually get you. Streak x2 and you’re almost always free and clear.
I know nothing about shimmering shield, but streak while having loads of offensive potential is primarily an escape tool when it comes to defense. It does not prevent damage in an active engagement like cloak does. As a pure escape tool i would hesitantly agree if you were to call cloak sub-par. But the act of dipping in and out of cloak repeatedly during a fight is where it shines. It frustrates, and confuses, allows you to repeatedly catch your opponent off guard, and if it had a burst heal alongside it would allow you to come back at full health while eliminating most counterplay. If your opponents detect pots are off cool down (or if they dont have any) your going to be unfairly difficult to kill.
Nope, if a Sorc use Streak x2 or x3, he is gone. You are not going to be able to chase him, neither attack him.
If a NB could disappear for 2 seconds and come back full HP, that's a L2P issue from your opponent, plain and simple...
I know you have been brain washed too, and you think "invisibility > any other tactic in the game". You have to open your eyes. Invisibility has been just "1 more tactic" for the past 25 years but never "the best tactic".
As I said, there's 2 options, give us the same healing capabilities that all the other classes already have and make it work with invisibility, or just sky rocket our damage to actually be the "assassin class" (remove cast times, give back Minor Berserker, give back Major Fracture on Surprise Attack, give Major Breach on Swallow Soul, let Mass Hysteria snare after fear, give Mark Target an unique damage debuff, like 5% more damage against the marked target, etc, etc).
So. . . Calling people brainwashed is a bit immature. But im going to let it pass.
Ive been a nightblade main since the begining until recently i didnt even touch other classes. Im speaking from experience. Im speaking based on what I know I am capable of. In the first place the failings of cloak right now are due to bugs, and balancing around bugs never works out well. At most i would advocate buffing the healing we already have available or granting some conditional damage buff to swallow soul that we may get respectable healing from that.
Heck, the whole class needs work, but giving us a selfish burst jeal without reprecussions i just dont think is the way. Well end up paying for it hard the very next patch.
A forum account sign up date is not indicative of how long they've played or the experience of a player. Not sure why you chose to focus on that or them playing on console so hard to disprove their opinion. Yes they're different games with potentially different metas, but many players on PC use controllers too, I know I do. Only difference is add-ons for tracking buffs/debuffs and performance.
High five nice back up!
Btw @Chelo
Ive been playing since well before orsinium. I originally started my account some time before craglorn released, but didnt hardcore get into the game until orsinium. Ive been full steam ahead ever since. I didnt join the forums until last year because i had to jump through several hoops in order to join. This is true for a lot of xbox players.
Ive been going hard on pvp since clock work city dlc.
Say what you want about the differences between console and pc i know how to use my nightblade. I have no doubt that you do as well and that our differences in opinion are likely due to using them differently.
I dont think that cloak is the most powerful 'strategy' but under representing just what its capable of to push a convenient dialogue about burst heals is something that we will end up paying for in short order should such a thing be implemented.
You keep calling things 'facts' theyre opinions. Valid opinions based on your experience. But still just opinions. And what im telling you is in my experience I get very different results from you. I really dont find sorcs to be all that troublesome. Perhaps its because i build for speed perhaps its because i build for defile or some other reason. But aside from their clearly superior delayed burst tools I dont find sorcs to have that huge of an advantage against nightblades.
I am victorious in over 70% of one on one engagements I end up in. This can be cp or non cp. Imp city, duels, bgs, cyrodill. I can 1vx to some degree, but again if i had a burst heal while in cloak that number would be boosted way up.
Back to my original argument. Its how you use it. And in the right hands a burst heal without some curse with the kiss, would be just too strong in the higher end players hands. You can disagree. But im basing my opinion on what I could with it. And im basing my opinion on the fact that most console dedicated NBs are better than me.
Your experience is based by playing on Xbox (again not a bait, a fact)... But honestly I don't think you will get it until you play on PC.
Alright. Ill bite. Since your making the argument about it being more necessary on pc vs the console, would you elaborate on why? I understand the existence of add ons, and the potential for macros as well as other factors that might alter the nature of gameplay. Can you at least explain what specifically makes it so different that strategy needs to be so fundamentally revised in the two different environments.
Im not being facetious here. Even ive heard from pc expats that the game plays differently and that the strategy is different among the two types of players. Id legit like to know, and how that translates to the topic at hand.
For example do you know Overwatch? Blizzard make different patches between PC and Consoles, so balance changes are completely different between plataforms.
They even explain this in their Developer Update Videos on their YouTube channel. The reason for this, is because gameplay on PC is completely different from Gameplay on consoles. The amount of customization you can get on PC is unlimited, while console everyone is playing at 30 fps cap, everyone is using the same graphic settings, everyone is using a controller, etc etc.
I know Blizzard have the resources to have dedicated balance teams for each plataform, while ZO$ can't even put together a single balance team, but that's another topic.
The point is, just imagine weaving and animation canceling, those 2 things have a huge gap between PC and console. But there's a lot of things that change the experience, is just not possible to explain it all in a single post.0 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭Maybe start an iformative thread on it in general discussion? The topic is interesting in its own right i should think. Im still unconvinced personally on the necessity of a burst heal regardless of platform. The best i can think is that performance differences might make altercations move and end faster on pc thus making more immediate healing capacity more desirable and necessary. Though I still think that could be accomplished by retuning the ones we already have available.1