[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

1mirg

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDXATjYJXhg

This is a scrrenshot from Alcast's video:

Well, I guess this is the end of any trace of identity & uniqueness NB once had.

WTB Class change token.

After seeing that passive, I agree.

Zenimax has effectively killed the Nightblade and its class identity by giving EVERYONE access to invisibility, that's also somehow better than ours.

All NBs should get a free class change token now as it's clear that they'll never fix the class, only continuously nerf it and hand out better versions of there skills to everyone.

RIP Nightblade.

Tommy_The_Gun

Iskiab

I must be the only one who's looking forward to dark cloak plus invis. Though the lack of NB damage will become a huge issue.

Tommy_The_Gun

Iskiab wrote: »

I must be the only one who's looking forward to dark cloak plus invis. Though the lack of NB damage will become a huge issue.

Should we force every one to be a vamp ?

Iskiab

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I must be the only one who's looking forward to dark cloak plus invis. Though the lack of NB damage will become a huge issue.

Should we force every one to be a vamp ?

I know what you mean. I never think of things like that because my background was hardcore raiding. If I had to pick my nose to be top dps I’d be digging away.

John_Falstaff

Iskiab wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I must be the only one who's looking forward to dark cloak plus invis. Though the lack of NB damage will become a huge issue.

Should we force every one to be a vamp ?

I know what you mean. I never think of things like that because my background was hardcore raiding. If I had to pick my nose to be top dps I’d be digging away.

To each their own. I'm a tank for instance, and though I feel peer pressure, I stubbornly refuse to go vampire for passives, there's a line where sacrificing immersion for stats plain makes the game not fun anymore.

JayJayIsSoJay

Fix cloak
Give siphoning attacks major sorcery and leeching strikes major brutality
Remove or Reduce the cast time out of Deathstroke and its morphs
Completely remove Soul Siphon's cast time

Let magblades have a flexible potion option by adding major sorcery to siphoning attacks.

Oh yeah, and stop ruining Mass hysteria identity, make it better than Turn evil and the new upcoming vampire stun.

ThePedge

1. Class skills being weaker than weapon and guild skills.

Whirling Blades > Power Extraction
Rapid Strikes > Suprise Attack
Executioner > Killers Blade

Weapon/Guild skills are meant to fill in the gaps classes don't have. Nightblade has them, they are just worse.

What's the point in playing Nightblade if I'm using no Nightblade skills? Make them of equal power.


2. Source of buffs

So this is sometimes the justification for skills being weaker. Such as Power Extraction and Whirling Blades.

NB version gives Major Brutality, the only source which requires already being in combat. Not very useful for an assassin.

Rethink the placement of these buffs.
Leeching/Siphoning Strikes would be nice for Major Brutality/Sorcery, would be the NB version of Betty. Stronger sustain but not the purge.

Also, fix cloak. Thank you for Incap stun.

Czekoludek

At this point I think we should just ping devs in every comment with one Simple demand.
@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler could you explain why you completely destroyed this class? And what Nb rework you had prepared? Because class is weak, soon without a single identity left, at this point simply changing numbers on skills won't be enough, class needs rework

Deathlord92

JayJayIsSoJay wrote: »

Fix cloak
Give siphoning attacks major sorcery and leeching strikes major brutality
Remove or Reduce the cast time out of Deathstroke and its morphs
Completely remove Soul Siphon's cast time

Let magblades have a flexible potion option by adding major sorcery to siphoning attacks.

Oh yeah, and stop ruining Mass hysteria identity, make it better than Turn evil and the new upcoming vampire stun.

This I completely agree with except you forgot one thing please buff concealed weapon as well some magblades like myself like up in your face play style maybe give concealed weapon minor magic steal or minor fracture please buff this class 🙏

xI_The_Owl_Ix

This is from a PvP magblades perspective but some points can also be applied to stamblades or PvP in general.


Playing a magblade is frustrating as [snip]. Most of the time Im struggling what it feels like against the game itself instead of enemies/ other players skill. Im going to try to elaborate why I feel like that and what could be done, with gifs/images as examples.


First lets talk about travel time in PvP and lag.

Nothing hits. Its frustating as hell when an enemy is literally standing still on your screen but somehow "dodge" appears above their head.



You can clearly see that the guy Im fighting is standing still, so why am I getting "dodged"?

Thats because of the travel-time projectiles have, combined with PvP lag. Its especially worse on a magblade because every attack (except sap essence) can be hard countered/100% mitigated by just roll dodging. Thats not fun, its frustrating watching a guy with 5% HP just spam roll dodge and self heals and get back up to 100% HP.


Projectile speed

Now lets have a look at "Swallow Soul" - the main spammable of a magblade and compare it to "Concealed Weapon"- a melee spammable which also costs magicka and therefore used my some melee magblades.

Swallow Soul



Concealed Weapon



If we look at both we can clearly see that "Swallow Soul" (compared to "Concealed Weapon") hits with a delay, add PvP lag into the calculation and the chances of "Swallow Soul" hitting someone becomes very small. Which again is nothing else but frustrating.


Cloak

Cloak is messed up. I think I dont have to say anything regarding that.
I will just leave these here.






Merciless Resolve

"Merciless Resolve" - bow proc has a massive travel time which results in it not hitting 80% of the time when cast from range.
This is again a massive issue that was obviously overlooked.

This is "Merciless" cast from a 22m range.


This is "Merciless" cast from a melee range.



Lotus Fan





I mean do I have to say anything? Its clearly not "Instant", I can literally block-cancle it, same as "Soul Harvest" which has a 0,4sec cast time. Fix.It.


___________________________________

Conclusion:
The whole "magblade" identity feels and is clunky, which in return makes the gameplay frustrating as hell.

Solutions:
- Rework the whole class.
- Either make Swallow Soul undodgeable or let it have no travel time/projectile speed at all. "Steal an enemy's life force" would fit into the "undodgeable" part.
- Change Swallow Souls healing, it being a 10sec HoT which heals every 2secs makes no sense. Its a spammable. Make it either 1sec every 5secs or change it, so it saves the biggest heal and applies it over 10secs/every 2secs instead of refreshing it every cast.
- Speed up the Merciless Resolve proc, it having a massive travel time doesnt fit the "ranged" gameplay a magblade has.
- Fix Cloak.
- Make Lotus Fan actually an instant cast.
- Remove the cast time from Soul Harvest.
- Give the class "undodgable" attacks besides Sap Essence to counter roll dodge spammers.
- FIX CLOAK.

[edited for profanity bypass]

VaxtinTheWolf

Just digging up some past suggestions I made on page 24. I wouldn't want them to get completely lost.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6572004/#Comment_6572004

Here I am again, with a collection of simplified suggestions of things I've been thinking about for this class over a period of time. I don't care if you don't want or like to be told what to do at this point. I'm going to continue sharing these thoughts.


Assassination

• Assassination Ultimate - Don't taze me bro!
  
  Death Stroke (Base Ability): Retains current cost of 70 Ultimate and the effect of increasing your damage against the target. This ability will now apply Major Defile to the enemy when used with 120 ultimate or more. (Possibly increasing this proc to 150 ultimate instead.)
  
  Incapacitating Strike (Stamina Morph): Applies Major Defile and stuns for 2 seconds when used with 120 Ultimate or more. Removed silence effect. While slotted, gain the Reave effect.
  
  Soul Harvest (Magicka Morph): Applies Major Defile and silences for 3 seconds when used with 120 Ultimate or more. While slotted, gain passive Ultimate when achieving a killing blow.
  
  
• Have the Blur ability also provide Minor Evasion to nearby allies (Not yourself, as you only gain Major Evasion from this) as an additional base effect.
  
  
• Add to one of the Passives, possibly Master Assassin or Dark Veil, to grant 25/50% or at least 15/30% movement speed while in sneak, so Nightblades aren't 'required' to become a blood sucker to enjoy a better stealth gameplay experience.
  
  
• Grim Focus
  
  To be honest, I'm not really even sure what the team wants this ability to actually do or become. I don't have any great ideas for it either, other than removing the heal component's melee range requirement. Alternatively you could just remove that effect entirely and replace it with something else, like a strong lingering DoT upon impact or allow it to pierce 50% of the target's resistances something.

Shadow

• Shift the +25% movement speed from Concealed Weapon to Veiled Strike as a base effect while retaining the stun if in sneak or while cloaked. Surprise attack continues to reduce the target's armor as a morph effect. I don't currently have any ideas for it myself, but Concealed Weapon could be granted a new unique(?) effect now.
  
  
• Shadow Cloak
  
  ...No. I'm not touching this one. I'd probably be dragged off and disappear in a back alley or something.
  
  
• Refreshing Path
  
  Option 1: Increase the range of this ability to match that of Twisting Path. Seriously, at least allow it to heal more than a tiny area to make it more appealing. I don't think most of the other ground AOE abilities that heal are this narrow of a space.
  
  Option 2: Although I'd like the range of this ability to be increased in general, I'd also be content with this skill doing half the coefficient of the heal as damage, mimicking the effect that Strife has between it's two morphs.
  
  
• For the ability Aspect of Terror, I think it could use a slight bit of extra help after Turn Evil ripped the soul of this ability away from it. Maybe adding a 30% snare for 3-4 seconds after the Fear effect ends as a base morph effect would at least give it some crutches to try and stand on.
  
  
• Extend the base duration of the Shadow Barrier passive that grants Major Resolve. Not everyone makes use of shadow abilities at all times, and I feel like I need to wear at least two pieces of Heavy Armor for the bonus duration when I'm only using one ability like Refreshing Path on my Healer. I believe increasing this to 10 seconds as the default would make it more ideal. Wearing 7 pieces of Heavy Armour would then give you 20.5 seconds of Major Resolve when using a Shadow Ability.

Siphoning

• Remove the cast time from the Soul Shred ultimate and it's morphs. Why is that on this ability? That actually bothers me more than the cast time on Death Stroke. With the changes to blocking and animation blending currently on the PTS, you could possibly work on making this skill's animation faster or have it run it's full course without it being immediately canceled by activating block. I have had more than a few extra deaths trying to make use of the Ultimate in PvP environments ever since the cast time was added.
  
  
• Malevolent Offering
  
  
• Remove the Major Brutality/Sorcery effect from Drain Power and add it as a base effect to Siphoning Strikes, as the skill in and of itself doesn't do that much. The morphs would retain their respective effects of returning Magicka or Stamina resources.
  
  
• Drain Power
  
  (Base Ability): Damages the enemy and reduces their Weapon/Spell damage by x amount for 8 seconds.
  
  Power Extraction (Stamina Morph): In addition to the base effect, you gain the x value of Weapon/Spell damage that the enemy is to be reduced by for 4 seconds.
  
  Sap Essence (Magicka Morph): In addition to the base effect, it now heals for x amount and the heal is strengthened depending on the number of enemies hit.

Deathlord92

Stamblade and magblade is in need of some serious buffs.

kalunte

or in need of nerf removal most of all. Half of what is asked was there in the first place.. sneak speed penalty during Alpha, snare on mass hysteria, decent passive on SA/CW, no cast time on skills (teleport strike cast time, death stroke cast time and major defile removal, spectral bow's travel time, dmg passive on grim focus instead of conditional survival, soul shred cast time... the list is long)

eventually something could be done so that NB only skills could be better than generic skills: drain power, aspect of terror, assassin's blade...

Also, one skill could be completely reworked: Mark target, this one is my favorite. you're an assassin who have to mail someone before targeting it. this warning combined with its usefullness in both morphs (the piercing mark only annoy other nightblades without being mandatory at all, on its side, reaper's mark have an heavyweight conditional + boost dmg by 25% for 5sec, which means 4skills will earn 25% dmg each => 4x25%=100% ond only once the target died... basically: just use another skill which might help you against a living opponent...)
other classes have their Breach/fracture tied to a dmging skill, only ele drain does no dmg, but grans minor magicka steal at least without waiting for the target to die...

just in case someone who can actually do something about nightblade but who's not Gilliam reads it... (because this guy thinks its cool to mark your target, warning him, before trying to stab it in the back is an amazing feature...)

OWLTHEMAD

kalunte wrote: »

or in need of nerf removal most of all. Half of what is asked was there in the first place.. sneak speed penalty during Alpha, snare on mass hysteria, decent passive on SA/CW, no cast time on skills (teleport strike cast time, death stroke cast time and major defile removal, spectral bow's travel time, dmg passive on grim focus instead of conditional survival, soul shred cast time... the list is long)

eventually something could be done so that NB only skills could be better than generic skills: drain power, aspect of terror, assassin's blade...

Also, one skill could be completely reworked: Mark target, this one is my favorite. you're an assassin who have to mail someone before targeting it. this warning combined with its usefullness in both morphs (the piercing mark only annoy other nightblades without being mandatory at all, on its side, reaper's mark have an heavyweight conditional + boost dmg by 25% for 5sec, which means 4skills will earn 25% dmg each => 4x25%=100% ond only once the target died... basically: just use another skill which might help you against a living opponent...)
other classes have their Breach/fracture tied to a dmging skill, only ele drain does no dmg, but grans minor magicka steal at least without waiting for the target to die...

just in case someone who can actually do something about nightblade but who's not Gilliam reads it... (because this guy thinks its cool to mark your target, warning him, before trying to stab it in the back is an amazing feature...)

I think reapers mark is intended to compliment a berserker playstyle(a relic of part of our old class identity), giving you heals and power as a reward for aggressiveness so that you can chain back to back kills. It only doesnt work because so much power has been removed from the tool kit over time and because of the tank meta that allows literally everyother class to stack damage resistance and still hurt people. If more of our toolkit was tweaked and the major berserk duration buffed to ten seconds i think it could be viable. Alternatively, allowing it to provide either group support rewarding the killer in your group as well as yourself, or simply frontloading the major berserk on cast would make it worthwhile.

Iskiab

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

or in need of nerf removal most of all. Half of what is asked was there in the first place.. sneak speed penalty during Alpha, snare on mass hysteria, decent passive on SA/CW, no cast time on skills (teleport strike cast time, death stroke cast time and major defile removal, spectral bow's travel time, dmg passive on grim focus instead of conditional survival, soul shred cast time... the list is long)

eventually something could be done so that NB only skills could be better than generic skills: drain power, aspect of terror, assassin's blade...

Also, one skill could be completely reworked: Mark target, this one is my favorite. you're an assassin who have to mail someone before targeting it. this warning combined with its usefullness in both morphs (the piercing mark only annoy other nightblades without being mandatory at all, on its side, reaper's mark have an heavyweight conditional + boost dmg by 25% for 5sec, which means 4skills will earn 25% dmg each => 4x25%=100% ond only once the target died... basically: just use another skill which might help you against a living opponent...)
other classes have their Breach/fracture tied to a dmging skill, only ele drain does no dmg, but grans minor magicka steal at least without waiting for the target to die...

just in case someone who can actually do something about nightblade but who's not Gilliam reads it... (because this guy thinks its cool to mark your target, warning him, before trying to stab it in the back is an amazing feature...)

I think reapers mark is intended to compliment a berserker playstyle(a relic of part of our old class identity), giving you heals and power as a reward for aggressiveness so that you can chain back to back kills. It only doesnt work because so much power has been removed from the tool kit over time and because of the tank meta that allows literally everyother class to stack damage resistance and still hurt people. If more of our toolkit was tweaked and the major berserk duration buffed to ten seconds i think it could be viable. Alternatively, allowing it to provide either group support rewarding the killer in your group as well as yourself, or simply frontloading the major berserk on cast would make it worthwhile.

Yup, if I had reaper’s on some of my other classes I’d love it. It might end up being okay with vampire though.

With NB it’s always hard to tell. You look at an ability and think, ‘I want that’ but then it never fits because too many abilities have been gutted. It’s not like stam where you can slot dizzy and spam it to kill people, if you spammed swallow soul you’d never get anyone to execute range, and if they use a heal their health is likely to recover instead of going down.

Qbiken

So, when are we going to get rid of the cast time on Deathstroke (with morphs) and Soul Siphon/Soul Tether? Having cast times on these two ultimates is horrible and gimps the class insanely. The cast time needs to go, it´s almost impossible to land an incap/soul harvest into your bow proc anymore due to how easy it is to break free and Dodge both of these skills. What´s the point of having somewhat ok burst if it misses 8/10 times?

Another thing, can we get rid of the % damage mitigation on merciless/relentless and rework it into an offensive bonus instead?

OWLTHEMAD

Qbiken wrote: »

So, when are we going to get rid of the cast time on Deathstroke (with morphs) and Soul Siphon/Soul Tether? Having cast times on these two ultimates is horrible and gimps the class insanely. The cast time needs to go, it´s almost impossible to land an incap/soul harvest into your bow proc anymore due to how easy it is to break free and Dodge both of these skills. What´s the point of having somewhat ok burst if it misses 8/10 times?

Another thing, can we get rid of the % damage mitigation on merciless/relentless and rework it into an offensive bonus instead?

I have mixed feelings on that, nightblades kind of have to go all in on offense with their sets, and the old minor berserk while nice i dont think was strong enough to justify running a defensive set. We havd very little in the way of defensive utility and the execution on this one is a distinct advantage that gives us tanking viability in pve and much needed defense in pvp. On the other hand nightblades by definition should never have been about damage mitigation as a derensive strategy.

kalunte

hum, sorry but reaper's mark doesnt fit to anything close to a nightblade or a berserker. it's a long term skill that implies strategy and the wish to fight multiple opponent + it warns the target and can be dispelled easily.

basically it makes you use 1gcd for an eventual futur benefit (beside of reducing armor) and is countered by skills that also have active side effects (heals or ressource regeneration).

it can be usefull, but if it was efficient it would be used by more ppl, actually it has 0 use in pve and a very little one in pvp since the warning does not fit with bow gankers and elemental drain is better for magblades.

kalunte

i dont see any free slot worth puting reapers mark or piercing mark on a melee stamblade*

OWLTHEMAD

kalunte wrote: »

hum, sorry but reaper's mark doesnt fit to anything close to a nightblade or a berserker. it's a long term skill that implies strategy and the wish to fight multiple opponent + it warns the target and can be dispelled easily.

basically it makes you use 1gcd for an eventual futur benefit (beside of reducing armor) and is countered by skills that also have active side effects (heals or ressource regeneration).

it can be usefull, but if it was efficient it would be used by more ppl, actually it has 0 use in pve and a very little one in pvp since the warning does not fit with bow gankers and elemental drain is better for magblades.

Bear in mind i didnt say in its current state it was good, however try to think of it from a dark cloak magblade perspective, or the oldschool saptank.
Swallow soul, dark cloak, siphoning strikes, sap essence, maybe even entropy if you want to go outside class skills, the burst heal on merciless, there is a definite design that reapers mark was built around. Its not really viable right now, but the intent is clearly there.

Not all nightblades are gankers.

kalunte

well, even regarding a dark cloak oriented or brawling setup, the skill isnt worth the slot in its current state. beside 1v1 situation for major breach/fracture but that's all. none of the conditional are worth sloting the skill.

the major berserk proc would fit a suicide bomber but since you have to say "HELLOW IM COMING" before, well, it wont work.

i'd really like to imagine a generic situation where this skill would have its point in anyone's skill bar, but i dont see any ^^

i might be stubborn tho*

Iskiab

kalunte wrote: »

well, even regarding a dark cloak oriented or brawling setup, the skill isnt worth the slot in its current state. beside 1v1 situation for major breach/fracture but that's all. none of the conditional are worth sloting the skill.

the major berserk proc would fit a suicide bomber but since you have to say "HELLOW IM COMING" before, well, it wont work.

i'd really like to imagine a generic situation where this skill would have its point in anyone's skill bar, but i dont see any ^^

i might be stubborn tho*

The only time I can see using it is if you’re grouped with a templar who’s using radiant aura and there’s no wardens around? Never tried it.

ThePedge

kalunte wrote: »

well, even regarding a dark cloak oriented or brawling setup, the skill isnt worth the slot in its current state. beside 1v1 situation for major breach/fracture but that's all. none of the conditional are worth sloting the skill.

the major berserk proc would fit a suicide bomber but since you have to say "HELLOW IM COMING" before, well, it wont work.

i'd really like to imagine a generic situation where this skill would have its point in anyone's skill bar, but i dont see any ^^

i might be stubborn tho*

I have used it, for the simple reason that only penetration effects proc sets damage. More pen, more damage.

Never used to be a problems then Templars got buffed the the skies and all run purge. Warden has a free purge, and Necro has a purge. So it's impossible to keep decent uptimes against half the people you fight. Probably greater than half as they're really strong and popular classes right now.

Tested running Potentates bow for some more defense. No use for bow skill so slotted mark.

Bow ganks can get away with it as you can Snipe, Spray, Mark and it might apply before the snipe hitsz or help finish off tankier targets.

OWLTHEMAD

kalunte wrote: »

well, even regarding a dark cloak oriented or brawling setup, the skill isnt worth the slot in its current state. beside 1v1 situation for major breach/fracture but that's all. none of the conditional are worth sloting the skill.

the major berserk proc would fit a suicide bomber but since you have to say "HELLOW IM COMING" before, well, it wont work.

i'd really like to imagine a generic situation where this skill would have its point in anyone's skill bar, but i dont see any ^^

i might be stubborn tho*

I have had success with it in some configurations. In one on one it takes me little time to secure a kill. If you execute a perfect ambush on a potato in an otherwise strong group, that potato can be fuel to take out stronger players. Ive managed a few successful 1vx runs with it with. My best success I managed to take out 8 players in a row, and in bgs its how i secured my first quadruple kill. Best bet is not to open with it though and cast it between spammabled.

Though your not wrong. In all of those situations there was certainly far too much luck involved, and those results are not something I could reliably repeat. There is usually a better suited skill for the slot. But its far from useless, and with slight tweaks could be really good.

In pve its actually extremely solid in tough trash fights like those in vet trials. Lotus fan, twisting path wall of elements or unstable wall, mark your target and focus it down and keep the chain going. Youll do absurd aoe damage especially if stacked with necro ult.

kalunte

well, we all agree about it being potentially good but with absurdly stupid requisits compared to other classes

in pve you need to find the first mob who'll die, and manage to kill it while all your dots/aoedots are on the ground or using another aoe spammable will have the same effect (if not more) when youg et the proc.

in pvp its very situationnal, efficient against potatoes and... that's it. as for proc dmg, you will do more than 8% increased dmg with a skill than what we may earn with a proc ^^

OWLTHEMAD

I dont disagree, but i do think your underestimating the value of the post kill burst heal.

I guess though its a question of whether your fighting fifty zerglings or 1 former emperor. Amazing against the zerglings. Pretty much pointless against the emp.

It would be nice if it offered group utility or frontloaded the damage bonus.

What i would really love to see in our tool kit is an opener. That is a skill that functioned in an opposite fashion to executes. Do more damage if the opponent is at full health or a burst ability that conditionaly applied a buff or debuff depending on your opponents health

The stun on concealed sort of reflects that, but i think reapers mark would be a good spot for that. Maybe a delayed burst if the opponent is at max health.

Probably a poorly thought idea but the sentiment remains.

kalunte

i dont underestimate the heal, it's just unreliable.

i'd rather have that mark inflict a DoT (to help get the kill) and proc an aoe dmg on death (or heal for the other morph) and a less noticeable visual alongside the major breach/fracture.

this would make it very worth slotting it.

making it deal dmg would also help to proc the executionner passive.. ^^

kalunte

hum, having stam or magicka morph both dealing dmg would be nice too instead of dmg vs heal*

Lorkhan

I miss a a good stun when playing nb. Fear sucks! Sorc and templar have rly good ones. Dk ultimate has a powerfull stun that we cant Dodge or break free easily. can we have our ultimate stun back? I know you cant fix cloak , so i Will not mention that i wish u fix it too