[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

Nick_Balza

Unfortunately, atm building the nightblade is an effort to patch flaws of class instead of boosting and giving advantages like with other classes.

Competitive nb may be created only with heavy sacrifices, which nobody has. Passives are very far from OP advantages, which templars or sorcs have.

Tommy_The_Gun

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

But the flanking aspect means that the ability really is only going to be decent for ganking and might be finicky at best. Im not sure thats such a good thing, though i respect them for adding it.

If server RNG will work that is. Problem with positioning in ESO is that you may see a target from the side / flank, but due to a lag, server sees as if you were attacking from the front.
At least that is my concern.

Anyway, who cares if ZOS just admitted that everything breaking cloak is how it is supposed to be . I can not think of any other class in ESO that can have its core mechanics and defences 100% nullified by a heavy attack...
Not a set.
Not an Ult.
Not a skill.
Not even a slotted skill.

Just a heavy attack.... Imagine if you could heavy attack sorc so they would streak back to you. Or heavy attack Templar to 100% reduce their healing.... idk man... this stinks.

Youre misinterpreting the point. NBs could (can in live) heavy attack out of cloak and cloak wouldnt break. Now in PTS they changed it that if youre cloaked and heavy attack someone you will be out of cloak the moment your heavy attack hits ur target.

I hope you are right and they actually refer to doing heavy attack from stealth, rather than some one else heavy attacking you & breaking cloak.

And tbh I never actually noticed that. If you use cloak, and do a heavy attack, what happens is that by the time you complete heavy attack, cloak ends anyway and you have to re-cast it.... idk...

Ragnaroek93

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

But the flanking aspect means that the ability really is only going to be decent for ganking and might be finicky at best. Im not sure thats such a good thing, though i respect them for adding it.

If server RNG will work that is. Problem with positioning in ESO is that you may see a target from the side / flank, but due to a lag, server sees as if you were attacking from the front.
At least that is my concern.

Anyway, who cares if ZOS just admitted that everything breaking cloak is how it is supposed to be . I can not think of any other class in ESO that can have its core mechanics and defences 100% nullified by a heavy attack...
Not a set.
Not an Ult.
Not a skill.
Not even a slotted skill.

Just a heavy attack.... Imagine if you could heavy attack sorc so they would streak back to you. Or heavy attack Templar to 100% reduce their healing.... idk man... this stinks.

Youre misinterpreting the point. NBs could (can in live) heavy attack out of cloak and cloak wouldnt break. Now in PTS they changed it that if youre cloaked and heavy attack someone you will be out of cloak the moment your heavy attack hits ur target.

I hope you are right and they actually refer to doing heavy attack from stealth, rather than some one else heavy attacking you & breaking cloak.

And tbh I never actually noticed that. If you use cloak, and do a heavy attack, what happens is that by the time you complete heavy attack, cloak ends anyway and you have to re-cast it.... idk...

You can use heavy attack into Surprise Attack out of Cloak and stun your opponent on live server. This doesn't work on PTS anymore and therefore they buffed SA to apply it's stun and offbalance if you flank someone with it.

Haza_212

TBH whats the point of even using cloak? everything seems to break it. LA, HA, gap closers, spamables. you name it, it breaks cloak. this SA change is ZoS saying cloak is broken and we don't know or don't give a [snip] to change/ fix it.

You would think that skills designed to revel players from stealth should be the only skills that do so. Everyone has access to them, Fighters guild, Mages Guild, support skill line, AOEs. But no, the one hand and shield gap closer or any other non reveal/ AOE skill works just as well, oh and of course blasts bones too.

Makes the class miserable to use and is really disappointing.

[edited for profanity bypass]

kalunte

well, i'd rather see them fix Cloak when it breaks from the cloaker's own dmg, i'm talking about procsets mostly, but also delayed regular skills like trap and so on.

having the cloak negated by charging a heavy attack is "fair", but getting revealed almost instantly because of your own DoT hurts me more

newtinmpls

I have to say that the one NB I run plays as a healer and pretty much uses skills that are not NB skills.

JayKwellen

Haza_212 wrote: »

TBH whats the point of even using cloak? everything seems to break it. LA, HA, gap closers, spamables. you name it, it breaks cloak. this SA change is ZoS saying cloak is broken and we don't know or don't give a [snip] to change/ fix it.

You would think that skills designed to revel players from stealth should be the only skills that do so. Everyone has access to them, Fighters guild, Mages Guild, support skill line, AOEs. But no, the one hand and shield gap closer or any other non reveal/ AOE skill works just as well, oh and of course blasts bones too.

Makes the class miserable to use and is really disappointing.

It's truly enraging sometimes.

Since I rolled a magblade I've been endeavoring, only somewhat successfully, to make the cloak playstyle work. It's been challenging for multiple reasons, but the unreliability of cloak is easily one of the worse pain points.

By choosing to use shadowy disguise vs. dark cloak I'm sacrificing additional healing (already a class weak point in PvP compared to others) and defense (no minor protection).

Without a strong heal and the ability to tank more damage, my survivability leans havily on cloak working appropriately. While I can just rely on shade, I could do that on a dark cloak NB with better survivability anyway, so what am I gaining by using cloak then?

Criticals/more damage? This is nice but guess what? It doesn't always work either. I try to weave in a cloak before certain attacks, and far too often I see cloak go off and then nothing but a regular hit. Lets not forget that weaving cloak adds yet another GCD into the rotation of the "quick assassination" class.

So, maybe the ability to disengage and reset fights? That's cool, when it works, but the end goal is to kill your opponent. If you have to constantly cloak and run over and over as a magblade you're probably putting very little damage into them -- eventually they will out sustain you, at which point it's game over. I will admit being able to disengage and using it to properly reset can be very useful, but that leads me to the next point --

Often it just doesn't work. Light attacks, heavies, gap closers, sorc pets and blastbones still chasing you, everything breaks it. Sometimes I'll be getting chased and even without my opponent light attacking or putting down AoE's, or throwing down flare/magelight/camo hunter, cloak just wont work. I press X and...nothing. Maybe everyone just has detect potions, but then I still have the same exact issue against target dummies, and I seriously doubt skeleton target bro is running detect pots too.

[edited to remove quote]

Ragnaroek93

kalunte wrote: »

well, i'd rather see them fix Cloak when it breaks from the cloaker's own dmg, i'm talking about procsets mostly, but also delayed regular skills like trap and so on.

having the cloak negated by charging a heavy attack is "fair", but getting revealed almost instantly because of your own DoT hurts me more

It's more important that Cloak doesn't get broken by things which aren't intended to break it. Like gapclosers, random light attacks and even Blighted Blastbones. Last one is by far the biggest oppressor since it deals more damage than a dizzy swing, is undodgeable, applies major defile and ignores Cloak. Nb will never be in a good spot as long as the meta class outright deletes them from the game.

Thedragonlolitucker

class is completely [snip] thought it was terrible already with 80 percent bash nerf (huge portion of damage for nightblades)
healing change on a spec with the worst healing alr in no cp
now random stun on sa
[Snip]

[Edited for bashing & profanity bypass]

Parasaurolophus

I still can’t understand what error the zos are trying to fix? Can you tell me pls?

Ragnaroek93

Would be nice to get a statement from the developers regarding the class instead of editing and removing posts tbh. Class skills are supposed to be stronger than weapon skills (according to ZOS actually), why is this not the case for Nightblade? Why aren't there any bugfixes to Cloak, our defense is completely buggy and doesn't work half of the time (light attacks, procs, blastbones, gapclosers and whatever breaks it for no reason)?

kalunte

actually they did something for cloak vs pets this time. so in 3months it'll be blasbone, or proc or gapcloser and in 6months maybe another thing but be sure they wont fix it in a single shot even if they were releasing the code so that ppl may do their job. that's just not how ZoS work.

Iskiab

kalunte wrote: »

actually they did something for cloak vs pets this time. so in 3months it'll be blasbone, or proc or gapcloser and in 6months maybe another thing but be sure they wont fix it in a single shot even if they were releasing the code so that ppl may do their job. that's just not how ZoS work.

Did they? That’s an awesome change.

It irked me a lot whenever a sorc has the flappy matriarch and could keep me out of cloak for free.

kalunte

Pet basic attacks can no longer remove players from stealth or invisibility; only special Area of Effect attacks that require special activation, such as Blastbones or Ultimates, will remove stealth.

In some instances, they may still attack stealthed targets if the target gained stealth in the time they began their attack, but the attack will not remove it.


6.0.0

P.S: i'm 99% sure that they are talking about skill-born pets only, not proc-sets pets i mean, if they did fix proc-set-pets too i subscribe for 10years.

kalunte

i think blasbone will remove player from stealth if it explodes against another player nearby but it will probably also jump jump onto our heads from time to time for the sake of latency/performance, i mean, once it'll jump, weither you cloak or not, it will probably explode onwhen landing ^^

Maulkin

kalunte wrote: »

i think blasbone will remove player from stealth if it explodes against another player nearby but it will probably also jump jump onto our heads from time to time for the sake of latency/performance, i mean, once it'll jump, weither you cloak or not, it will probably explode onwhen landing ^^

If somebody gets knocked back by fire clench/javelin/magnum shot while blastbones is travelling towards them blastbones fails to land and just disintegrates mid-air. Perennial problem of magcros that use fire clench for stun, causing their own blastbones to fail. Not sure why cloaking while blastbones is mid-air should be any different, it should simply fail the distance check and disintegrate too.

Blastbones with all the necro passives costs ~900 mag or stam, while Shadowy Disguise costs ~3.5k mag on 5 light. If you spent that amount of resources the least that should happen is force blastbones to fail. Otherwise it's like throwing up a Dampen Magic ward for ~4k mag, only for the cheap burst skill to completely ignore it and damage health directly. That's no balance

kalunte

hum the issues related to knockbacks and pulls are not the same as cloak, we'll have to test it. i'll start by having a closer look to it on live ^^

900 ressource for blastbone T_T, i cant wait for NMA/Stuhn's/malacath's 5heavy/1/1 setups on cros, dks, plarz and dens.. they will probably lack some ressource you think? with the healing nerf to battle spirit, it think no nb will be able to live long enough to figure it out xD

1mirg

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Would be nice to get a statement from the developers regarding the class instead of editing and removing posts tbh. Class skills are supposed to be stronger than weapon skills (according to ZOS actually), why is this not the case for Nightblade? Why aren't there any bugfixes to Cloak, our defense is completely buggy and doesn't work half of the time (light attacks, procs, blastbones, gapclosers and whatever breaks it for no reason)?

it's because they hate our class due to how many people in PvP complained about us over the years. That's why we've been nerfed so hard and that's why most of our skills have been stolen and that's why almost all of our toolkit is weaker versions then even weapon skills and that's why our defense is completely bugged.

@ZOS_TrishM is watching this thread, so I won't say much else other then this:
We want to know why you've been stealing skills from our class and why you've been doing nothing but nerfing our class.

JayKwellen

1mirg wrote: »

it's because they hate our class due to how many people in PvP complained about us over the years. That's why we've been nerfed so hard and that's why most of our skills have been stolen and that's why almost all of our toolkit is weaker versions then even weapon skills and that's why our defense is completely bugged.

@ZOS_TrishM is watching this thread, so I won't say much else other then this:
We want to know why you've been stealing skills from our class and why you've been doing nothing but nerfing our class.

Personally I just want an explanation from zos regarding their hypocrisy.

But their own admission, class skills are meant to be better than generic skills, and yet for NBs this logic doesn't hold true.

So what is it then? Why the logical inconsistency?

Hyyydra

Dear @ZOS_GinaBruno @BrianWheeler ,

Excuse me, but could you respond to the community of users who pay and play Nightblades, who have been giving opinions and offering suggestions for two years? I express an opinion gained by hearing other players who care about the class, but don't understand your silence about it. We have created our main characters with the Nightblade class, worked hard to achieve our goals and improve ourselves. We are players who have tried other classes, but have chosen and found the Nightblades, with their style of play, the perfect class.

Why do the other classes, for example talking about stamina characters, achieve more damage, easier rotation and all in all an easier life in the game?

I repeat my post wants to be constructive and raise awareness about it.

We are a community, we believe in your work, in the game and we like to spend time in the game.

It would be nice not only to read our comments, but also to receive your feedback.

We are people who have lives beyond the game, we can't afford to constantly remake content and objectives, changing a class, work and daily stress take a lot of energy away from us, personally speaking. The game must allow us to enjoy a world and all the content available, not having to redo them because a class is no longer the right one for the "damage meta".

The fact is that communication is fundamental, especially in the times we live in.
Surely you are faced with constant assaults on your work, criticism that is not constructive, but a deadly silence about the class can't help.

Talk to us, give us explanations, let us understand what you think and what future you want to give to the class!

Thank you in advance for your answer!!

jirkasl

Hi,
(PvP)

Piercing Mark
Ability has an increased duration, and you can see the target if they use stealth or invisibility.
Its not right

Shadow Image
Cost: 4050 Magicka
i need this for survive and i need Shadowy Disguise too.
i wish cheaper this skill.

Big pain point is play with stamina nightbalde BGs .
( not too many brave souls plays on better MMR )
no survivality.

Next one.

I cant kill in cyrodil classes like stamina warden on 1v1.
I just dont have enough DMG and he hit me very hard.

Relentless Focus
this stamina morf should be 3 Light or Heavy Attacks
Magica version stay on 5

Moose_Scout

1) Get rid of cast times.
Nightblades are not tanky enough to just stand there. This class was built to combo quickly and move quickly.

2) Make our class skills slightly better than weapon/armor skills. (Execute is better than killers blade, shuffle is better than blur, accelerate offers a more consistent buff than grim focus). As of now, my nightblade hardly slots nightblade skills. I use siphoning strike and cloak in pvp.

Draevik

I played a ton on my bowblade he was actually my main until i started getting sick of people rage messaging me. I cannot believe I see people complaining about cloak... it is the single best defensive buff in the game. But it took me playing every other class to realize that.

What breaks easily is sneaking, not the cloak which they should fix. I only ever have problems if a templar is hot on my heals and I am snared. Otherwise I rarely ever died in BGs. 90% of matches I was x amount of kills 0 deaths. This was with 15k health and all divines gear. I was a cheap ganker using cloak anytime anyone came close.

Honestly, dots shouldn't magically stop ticking when the cloak is up. They should break cloak just like they do to sneak.

Nightblades are consistently performing very well in every BG i play in. Even against other way better players than me they just get eaten alive.

Moose_Scout

Draevik wrote: »

I played a ton on my bowblade he was actually my main until i started getting sick of people rage messaging me. I cannot believe I see people complaining about cloak... it is the single best defensive buff in the game. But it took me playing every other class to realize that.

What breaks easily is sneaking, not the cloak which they should fix. I only ever have problems if a templar is hot on my heals and I am snared. Otherwise I rarely ever died in BGs. 90% of matches I was x amount of kills 0 deaths. This was with 15k health and all divines gear. I was a cheap ganker using cloak anytime anyone came close.

Honestly, dots shouldn't magically stop ticking when the cloak is up. They should break cloak just like they do to sneak.

Nightblades are consistently performing very well in every BG i play in. Even against other way better players than me they just get eaten alive.

Some of us don't like that play-style of snipe, snipe run. When nightblades were performing well I never even slotted snipe as I would poison inject and then go melee the rest of the time.

Now... its just sad with the ult cast times and damage nerfs to try and brawl up close. People are asking for snipe nerfs in other threads and I suspect it is because all nightblades can do now is snipe if they want to sneak a few easy kills.

Anyway, Draevik, once you move up in BGs rankings, you will see that the snipey snipey builds don't work anymore.

Once you start 1v1 with rank 25 in Cyro, snipy doesn't work any more either.

Deathlord92

Draevik wrote: »

I played a ton on my bowblade he was actually my main until i started getting sick of people rage messaging me. I cannot believe I see people complaining about cloak... it is the single best defensive buff in the game. But it took me playing every other class to realize that.

What breaks easily is sneaking, not the cloak which they should fix. I only ever have problems if a templar is hot on my heals and I am snared. Otherwise I rarely ever died in BGs. 90% of matches I was x amount of kills 0 deaths. This was with 15k health and all divines gear. I was a cheap ganker using cloak anytime anyone came close.

Honestly, dots shouldn't magically stop ticking when the cloak is up. They should break cloak just like they do to sneak.

Nightblades are consistently performing very well in every BG i play in. Even against other way better players than me they just get eaten alive.

Trust me if someone like myself is in the same bgs game as you you wouldn’t be getting 0 deaths I focused squishy players all I care about is getting kills and I always carry detect pots ambush detect pot fear incap light attack surprise attack that is all It would take to kill you if your as squishy as you say you are. Take it from a nb main cloak is not good on its own you need shade and los to.

Langeston

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

I played a ton on my bowblade he was actually my main until i started getting sick of people rage messaging me. I cannot believe I see people complaining about cloak... it is the single best defensive buff in the game. But it took me playing every other class to realize that.

What breaks easily is sneaking, not the cloak which they should fix. I only ever have problems if a templar is hot on my heals and I am snared. Otherwise I rarely ever died in BGs. 90% of matches I was x amount of kills 0 deaths. This was with 15k health and all divines gear. I was a cheap ganker using cloak anytime anyone came close.

Honestly, dots shouldn't magically stop ticking when the cloak is up. They should break cloak just like they do to sneak.

Nightblades are consistently performing very well in every BG i play in. Even against other way better players than me they just get eaten alive.

Trust me if someone like myself is in the same bgs game as you you wouldn’t be getting 0 deaths I focused squishy players all I care about is getting kills and I always carry detect pots ambush detect pot fear incap light attack surprise attack that is all It would take to kill you if your as squishy as you say you are. Take it from a nb main cloak is not good on its own you need shade and los to.

Hell, even that's overkill — with 15k health and all Divines I'd global him from range on my magblade.

All it takes is 1 snipe and my eyes are peeled the rest of the match. There's no way he'd get a positive K/D ratio.

Moose_Scout

Langeston wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

I played a ton on my bowblade he was actually my main until i started getting sick of people rage messaging me. I cannot believe I see people complaining about cloak... it is the single best defensive buff in the game. But it took me playing every other class to realize that.

What breaks easily is sneaking, not the cloak which they should fix. I only ever have problems if a templar is hot on my heals and I am snared. Otherwise I rarely ever died in BGs. 90% of matches I was x amount of kills 0 deaths. This was with 15k health and all divines gear. I was a cheap ganker using cloak anytime anyone came close.

Honestly, dots shouldn't magically stop ticking when the cloak is up. They should break cloak just like they do to sneak.

Nightblades are consistently performing very well in every BG i play in. Even against other way better players than me they just get eaten alive.

Trust me if someone like myself is in the same bgs game as you you wouldn’t be getting 0 deaths I focused squishy players all I care about is getting kills and I always carry detect pots ambush detect pot fear incap light attack surprise attack that is all It would take to kill you if your as squishy as you say you are. Take it from a nb main cloak is not good on its own you need shade and los to.

Hell, even that's overkill — with 15k health and all Divines I'd global him from range on my magblade.

All it takes is 1 snipe and my eyes are peeled the rest of the match. There's no way he'd get a positive K/D ratio.

Here is what happens now, which is sad, squish targets(nbs) focus on other squish targets(nbs) while the main battle is happening elsewhere...

Deathlord92

Langeston wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

I played a ton on my bowblade he was actually my main until i started getting sick of people rage messaging me. I cannot believe I see people complaining about cloak... it is the single best defensive buff in the game. But it took me playing every other class to realize that.

What breaks easily is sneaking, not the cloak which they should fix. I only ever have problems if a templar is hot on my heals and I am snared. Otherwise I rarely ever died in BGs. 90% of matches I was x amount of kills 0 deaths. This was with 15k health and all divines gear. I was a cheap ganker using cloak anytime anyone came close.

Honestly, dots shouldn't magically stop ticking when the cloak is up. They should break cloak just like they do to sneak.

Nightblades are consistently performing very well in every BG i play in. Even against other way better players than me they just get eaten alive.

Trust me if someone like myself is in the same bgs game as you you wouldn’t be getting 0 deaths I focused squishy players all I care about is getting kills and I always carry detect pots ambush detect pot fear incap light attack surprise attack that is all It would take to kill you if your as squishy as you say you are. Take it from a nb main cloak is not good on its own you need shade and los to.

Hell, even that's overkill — with 15k health and all Divines I'd global him from range on my magblade.

All it takes is 1 snipe and my eyes are peeled the rest of the match. There's no way he'd get a positive K/D ratio.

Exactly

Iskiab

Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.

I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.

OWLTHEMAD

Iskiab wrote: »

Seriously, I track the weapon moreso than the class because it‘a easier. If I see someone with a bow 9/10 they’re an easy kill, NB or not.

I can’t believe someone would say cloak is the best defense ability in the game. That’s crazy, shimmering shield and streak are easily better.

Depends on the user honestly. I say it pretty much completely loses out soley on the basis that cloak has no pve use. In the right hands cloak is supreme in pvp. But if you cant get over the skill curve to make really good use of it then pretty much anything else is better.