[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

IZZEFlameLash

I am most salty about Power Lash. 3 sec CD and yet their flawed reasoning is based on the gameplay that was of pre-CD. It is almost like they expected the CD to be per target not global but they don't know wtf type of changes they made. But no, apparently, to Wrobel, braindead PvE tanking sustain is DK's true sustain and doesn't even realize that PvP and PvE are separate beast. And that DD sustain =/= tank sustain is not a thing for them. They need to play their own game.

Flame_of_Hades

so, this is going to very unpopular, but here it goes.

I have been mostly playing magDK for almost a year now. (no where near the time of some other people on this forum, but i have been playing the game since launch)

i do not find whip hard to hit. talons-whip-fossilize-power lash. animation cancel these and its an easy hit.

i can't say iv tested it, but i do not think that the increased cost will be very much of a problem. 1k magicka for a power lash that normally goes off by accident in your rotation....... hmm, i got a cheaper whip (cause lets be honest, without the stun, its a slightly higher damage whip that heals....)

taking the stun off the whip is GOOD. I cannot tell you how many times iv been in a fight and said "hmm let me line up my burst, wait for the right time to stun... *power lash stuns them and gives them immunity* *runs off screaming in frustration*"

i see very little total change to mDK in this patch.

if i were to ask for anything, it would be:

1. make wings reflect 3 projectiles, PER PERSON. this makes wings valuable v the 10 snipe spamming zerglings chasing you, but makes it easier for ranged builds to get past wings 1v1.

2. execute. any. execute. make power lash the execute(not a great buff, but we would have one....), or maybe make molten arraignments worth the cost/useable by reworking it so that it gives an effect that increases the speed of heavy attacks and increases damage v low health enemies(100%-200%.....). this also solves the DK sustain issue, as it makes it easier to get resources back from heavy attacks..

Andele

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

molten arraignments worth the cost/useable by reworking it so that it gives an effect that increases the speed of heavy attacks

Holy hell yes to the attack speed being given by it part (but only after animation smoothing and attack target bug as notable on werewolf got fixed)

Molten Weapons, 20s (24s post passive), 3.8k cost, buffs own attack speed of light and heavy attacks by 20%

Igneous Weapons, 20s (24s EM), 4.3k cost, buffs own attack speed of light attacks by 20%, buffs attack speed and damage of heavy attacks by 40%

Molten Armaments, 33s (39s EM), 4.3k cost, buffs group with Brutality, Sorcery and 15% attack speed to light and heavy attacks

(swapped weapons and armaments since armaments is more war force thus full party)

IZZEFlameLash

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

so, this is going to very unpopular, but here it goes.

I have been mostly playing magDK for almost a year now. (no where near the time of some other people on this forum, but i have been playing the game since launch)

i do not find whip hard to hit. talons-whip-fossilize-power lash. animation cancel these and its an easy hit.

i can't say iv tested it, but i do not think that the increased cost will be very much of a problem. 1k magicka for a power lash that normally goes off by accident in your rotation....... hmm, i got a cheaper whip (cause lets be honest, without the stun, its a slightly higher damage whip that heals....)

taking the stun off the whip is GOOD. I cannot tell you how many times iv been in a fight and said "hmm let me line up my burst, wait for the right time to stun... *power lash stuns them and gives them immunity* *runs off screaming in frustration*"

i see very little total change to mDK in this patch.

if i were to ask for anything, it would be:

1. make wings reflect 3 projectiles, PER PERSON. this makes wings valuable v the 10 snipe spamming zerglings chasing you, but makes it easier for ranged builds to get past wings 1v1.

2. execute. any. execute. make power lash the execute(not a great buff, but we would have one....), or maybe make molten arraignments worth the cost/useable by reworking it so that it gives an effect that increases the speed of heavy attacks and increases damage v low health enemies(100%-200%.....). this also solves the DK sustain issue, as it makes it easier to get resources back from heavy attacks..

The cost matter quite significantly actually. It is basically another second of having no recovery in a typical DK build. Also, as said before, anim cancel does not make you hit any faster or 100% of the time especially when you are trying to hit people who know what they are doing, not some generic bowtard lightattacking you. Missing a Power Lash will cost us. And this cost makes the whip one of the most expensive spammables in the game. Now entering into 3.6k territory or so total without any sort of cost reductions.

Sleep724

Does the increased ranged for melee attacks also include light attacks and bash?

NBrookus

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

2. execute. any. execute. make power lash the execute(not a great buff, but we would have one....), or maybe make molten arraignments worth the cost/useable by reworking it so that it gives an effect that increases the speed of heavy attacks and increases damage v low health enemies(100%-200%.....). this also solves the DK sustain issue, as it makes it easier to get resources back from heavy attacks..

It used to increase damage to low health targets. They nerfed that a long time ago.

StShoot

NBrookus wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

2. execute. any. execute. make power lash the execute(not a great buff, but we would have one....), or maybe make molten arraignments worth the cost/useable by reworking it so that it gives an effect that increases the speed of heavy attacks and increases damage v low health enemies(100%-200%.....). this also solves the DK sustain issue, as it makes it easier to get resources back from heavy attacks..

Only in pve or if you play your mag dk with a staff, but afterall i play my dk because its a dragon KNIGHT if i want to play restro destro i can go sorc or nb and it will perform better (dont even need to do HA there).

I have testet my mag dk now and those changes to powerrlash realy hurt. There is literally no reason to play a mag dk anymore, magpler is now the far superior magica melee class, and they provide good group support too. Hell its even more fun to play my magden and i always considered it the only magica class that sucks more than a dk.
Thx Zo$ thx for the hole new magica dk expirience .

And to all those who say the powerlash cost increase is not a big thing:
i have to spend 1000 magica every 6 secs (******* cooldown) 1000/6= 166 since the regen ticks every two seconds its equals a 333 regen nerf (166*2=333) and that on a class that allready has the worst sustain and that not includes the amount of magica i need to procc that ***.

If i *** up the math pls correct me i was in hurry and sorry for my bad english

vesselwiththepestle

Sleep724 wrote: »

Does the increased ranged for melee attacks also include light attacks and bash?

I think so at least for light attacks, but I just had a quick look, no real test. On bash I didn't even have a quick look. If someone did a proper test please let us know.

I really like the increased melee range for DK. It makes some boss fights a lot easier on Stam DK. A lot less movement needed at some bosses. However, I think Rearming Trap doesn't get an increased range and is still put directly in front of the character.

Xvorg

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

so, this is going to very unpopular, but here it goes.

I have been mostly playing magDK for almost a year now. (no where near the time of some other people on this forum, but i have been playing the game since launch)

i do not find whip hard to hit. talons-whip-fossilize-power lash. animation cancel these and its an easy hit.

i can't say iv tested it, but i do not think that the increased cost will be very much of a problem. 1k magicka for a power lash that normally goes off by accident in your rotation....... hmm, i got a cheaper whip (cause lets be honest, without the stun, its a slightly higher damage whip that heals....)

taking the stun off the whip is GOOD. I cannot tell you how many times iv been in a fight and said "hmm let me line up my burst, wait for the right time to stun... *power lash stuns them and gives them immunity* *runs off screaming in frustration*"

i see very little total change to mDK in this patch.

if i were to ask for anything, it would be:

1. make wings reflect 3 projectiles, PER PERSON. this makes wings valuable v the 10 snipe spamming zerglings chasing you, but makes it easier for ranged builds to get past wings 1v1.

2. execute. any. execute. make power lash the execute(not a great buff, but we would have one....), or maybe make molten arraignments worth the cost/useable by reworking it so that it gives an effect that increases the speed of heavy attacks and increases damage v low health enemies(100%-200%.....). this also solves the DK sustain issue, as it makes it easier to get resources back from heavy attacks..

Whip is not hard to hit, it is hard to land. In live, after you use talons for CC the enemy rolls, so you had a hard time trying to synchronize your hits with the dmg window. Sure, you can use foss after that, but you have already burned about 9k magicka if you go with a HA set up. In LA you are forced to drop talons or foss to make space for anullement unless you are running 2 LA defensive sets (which it's kind of the same than using ofesive jewelry and a HA set, but with less health).

So it is not how you proc lash, it is the high cost it takes to proc lash. On a NB casting will takes casting grim focus and then 5 LA. On a Sorc, you play roulette with frags, it can proc after mage's fury or after a full rotation. The difference is that the proc can trigger after a full offensive rotation, while DK proc needs 2 CC that barely do dmg.

That's why a DK takes longer to kill an enemy than any other class even after 2 CCs. A NB can kill you easily after one CC, a Sorc kind of the same. And DK CCs are not something we can call cheap.

Flame_of_Hades

Xvorg wrote: »

Whip is not hard to hit, it is hard to land. In live, after you use talons for CC the enemy rolls, so you had a hard time trying to synchronize your hits with the dmg window. Sure, you can use foss after that, but you have already burned about 9k magicka if you go with a HA set up. In LA you are forced to drop talons or foss to make space for anullement unless you are running 2 LA defensive sets (which it's kind of the same than using ofesive jewelry and a HA set, but with less health).

So it is not how you proc lash, it is the high cost it takes to proc lash. On a NB casting will takes casting grim focus and then 5 LA. On a Sorc, you play roulette with frags, it can proc after mage's fury or after a full rotation. The difference is that the proc can trigger after a full offensive rotation, while DK proc needs 2 CC that barely do dmg.

That's why a DK takes longer to kill an enemy than any other class even after 2 CCs. A NB can kill you easily after one CC, a Sorc kind of the same. And DK CCs are not something we can call cheap.

i run 6/7 light armor. sustain is not an issue. yes, i run a defensive set, but that is countered by 2 spell damage enchants on my jewelry. i have talons and fossilize, and it is not hard to sustain using the atro mundus.

Sure, a dk has a harder time procing the already near worthless powerlash, but DK damage doesnt come from that... it comes from dots. burning embers, volatile armor, burning talons, Flames of Oblivion. stack that damage, and people tend to start melting (templars -_-).

StShoot wrote: »

Only in pve or if you play your mag dk with a staff, but afterall i play my dk because its a dragon KNIGHT if i want to play restro destro i can go sorc or nb and it will perform better (dont even need to do HA there).

I have testet my mag dk now and those changes to powerrlash realy hurt. There is literally no reason to play a mag dk anymore, magpler is now the far superior magica melee class, and they provide good group support too. Hell its even more fun to play my magden and i always considered it the only magica class that sucks more than a dk.
Thx Zo$ thx for the hole new magica dk expirience .

And to all those who say the powerlash cost increase is not a big thing:
i have to spend 1000 magica every 6 secs (******* cooldown) 1000/6= 166 since the regen ticks every two seconds its equals a 333 regen nerf (166*2=333) and that on a class that allready has the worst sustain and that not includes the amount of magica i need to procc that ***.

If i *** up the math pls correct me i was in hurry and sorry for my bad english

S+B and resto staff. only combo worth running due to the amount of magicka you get back from the heavy attacks. inferno staff gives more damage, but you are going to melt. lightning staff..... no. ice staff? why would i waist my magicka stat blocking when i can weaving in heavy attacks to keep my stamina up, MUCH easier than i can land a full heavy with a staff??

if you hit power lash every 6 seconds, then you are spamming it and not playing the fight out, not playing smart with your resources.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

The cost matter quite significantly actually. It is basically another second of having no recovery in a typical DK build. Also, as said before, anim cancel does not make you hit any faster or 100% of the time especially when you are trying to hit people who know what they are doing, not some generic bowtard lightattacking you. Missing a Power Lash will cost us. And this cost makes the whip one of the most expensive spammables in the game. Now entering into 3.6k territory or so total without any sort of cost reductions.

id argue that anim canceling does make whip faster, but i haven't timed it to truly find out, so i cant give numbers.

in any case, it makes it almost invisible, thus making it much harder to dodge.

dks sustain is horrible, but this change really shouldn't effect much unless you constantly try to use powerlash at inopportune times, such as without them being fossilized.


tl:dr, mag dk did'nt really get hurt by this patch, some classes got hurt alot more. they are finally getting around to buffing templar again, so maybe, just maybe, DK will see some buffs in its future as well. Execute. Please.

Xvorg

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Whip is not hard to hit, it is hard to land. In live, after you use talons for CC the enemy rolls, so you had a hard time trying to synchronize your hits with the dmg window. Sure, you can use foss after that, but you have already burned about 9k magicka if you go with a HA set up. In LA you are forced to drop talons or foss to make space for anullement unless you are running 2 LA defensive sets (which it's kind of the same than using ofesive jewelry and a HA set, but with less health).

So it is not how you proc lash, it is the high cost it takes to proc lash. On a NB casting will takes casting grim focus and then 5 LA. On a Sorc, you play roulette with frags, it can proc after mage's fury or after a full rotation. The difference is that the proc can trigger after a full offensive rotation, while DK proc needs 2 CC that barely do dmg.

That's why a DK takes longer to kill an enemy than any other class even after 2 CCs. A NB can kill you easily after one CC, a Sorc kind of the same. And DK CCs are not something we can call cheap.

i run 6/7 light armor. sustain is not an issue. yes, i run a defensive set, but that is countered by 2 spell damage enchants on my jewelry. i have talons and fossilize, and it is not hard to sustain using the atro mundus.

Sure, a dk has a harder time procing the already near worthless powerlash, but DK damage doesnt come from that... it comes from dots. burning embers, volatile armor, burning talons, Flames of Oblivion. stack that damage, and people tend to start melting (templars -_-).

You're kidding, right?

Any DK DoTs require you to be at 7mts range to be applied and it is not so easy to stack those dots.

I think I explained you that in a standard DK bar you must include not only your main spammable, but a heal, a CC, a mitigation tool (all of them must be front barred or the lag will troll you badly), which leaves space for only one DoT or a gap closer.

A DK bar is nothing like a sorc or NB bar in terms you can put 3 dmg skills plus a shield/cloak (or two). Going back bar to heal and then front bar means you are releasing presure over your objective, sure, embers and whip do have a heal associated, but you must land a hit on your enemy to take advantage of those. No enemy, no heal. That's why CDB is almos mandatory.

A well build mDK must have 2 different bars, a ranged one and a melee one. if the ranged bar also includes extra healing, and/or a form of purge, then you are OK.

Now, if you want to build a DK only on DoTs, you are gona suck badly because DKs dots are crap. On my mageblade I can get much better ranged dots, just by using cripple and destro reach and combining them with another ranged dot (such as entropy or even soul trap). A NB has a naturally higher crit chance that makes its DoTs way stronger than DK DoTs, and playing ranged and having a tool like cloak makes a mageblade the real magicka DoT class, using a less risky playing style.

Flame_of_Hades

i'm not kidding, my front bar is (burning talons, fossilize, coag, whip, burning embers)
my back bar is (volatile armor, degeneration(light attacks healing you is always a + when weaving), wings, Flames of Oblivion, rapid regen (maelstrom resto))

based on you using having to build around lag, im assuming you play in vivec. you can build with bar swap animation canceling in mind if you play in shor/sotha (PC NA..)

balancing should not be made around lag.... find a way to get around the lag, like playing a less laggy campaign...

StShoot

Every 6 seconds a powerlash is actual the best way to use it in my opinion. If you want to drain their stamina you have to use fozz every 6 seconds anyway. and than a whip + powerlash.

"if you hit power lash every 6 seconds, then you are spamming it and not playing the fight out, not playing smart with your resources."

actual you sustain benefits from that, since a powerlash costs less than the regular lash, and the healing it provides is more than coagulating blood

"S+B and resto staff. only combo worth running due to the amount of magicka you get back from the heavy attacks."

If you use a restro you are better of using dualwield or a destrostaff, the restro gives you enaugh survivability. But my point stands : yeah it is somehow the meta now on a dk but sorcs and nbs perform better with that setup.
I like what Xvorg wrote regarding that matter ^^: DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....

Sure, a dk has a harder time procing the already near worthless powerlash, but DK damage doesnt come from that... it comes from dots. burning embers, volatile armor, burning talons, Flames of Oblivion. stack that damage, and people tend to start melting (templars -_-).

There is a problem with that (besides purge =P) the most other dot builds in the game will outdot you. Bleeds, even other class dots out perform the dk dots (mostly because they can afford to invest more into dmg, because they are ranged or have better escape/dmg mitigation options than the dk).
Yeah you can stack all your dots and use high dmg sets and it will work one on one and even in bgs, but in open world where you have more than one oponent and where you cant rely on your allies, you will end up sacrificing to much survivability or sustain for the dmg. (Non cp, cant speak for cps pvp, i never play there^^)
But there shouldnt be one way to play a class ;D if there is only one right way to play the mdk than the class is in worse condition than i thought xD

Rungar

as a dk tank i actually like all the changes.

the new shields are decent
the new cinder is pretty good
the range increase is decent

Xvorg

@Quantum_V

I have some concerns regarding PvP. I tried the patch and it's simply the patch I've liked the least.

The good things:

- Ash cloud is amazing now. It can easily set a landmark on DK healing. On PvP and paired with springs is quite helpful. You can save a guy from being killed and turn the fight on his favor just with that combo. I imagine that in PvE it's even better.

- The shield of Hardened is interesting. Not OP as I thought at the begining, but it cal help a Tank in PVE. In PVP maybe tanks or stam chars can take more advantage of it.

The bad things.

- The sustain has become worse than ever due to the lash change. I even dropped lash in favor of my full lit heavy attack build

- The range decrease in whip was a very hard move. IDK why now a whip has the same range that a sword, it makes no sense. 8 mts was OK. I suppose the extra range on stam DK is more helpful.

- Shields and range are almost mandatory in mDK now. I know it is how the meta has switched. Playing melee DK against a group of archers is painful. And here I want to be a little more extensive: the change on dodgeroll has impacted badly on magicka builds:

Since snipe takes around one second channel, you can easily dodge the first arrow, but the second will hit on you for sure. Then it comes the problem of befoul, not only because it decreases you healing. If you are a melee DK in light armor, it also impacts on your shields. So you can't dodge roll as before to avoid the snipes, neither use a shield or a heal efficiently, and that's even without considering soldier of anguish. I imagine that magsorc, magblades and magplars have similar issues, but they have ways of avoiding the dmg, escaping of it or a purge. Sure, wings could help, but the big problem with wings is the fact that only reflect 4 projectiles unless you spam them and we all know wings are not cheap. On the other hand, lit staff has become the best friend for mDK again. Paired with molten armaments and used against those archers in medium will kill them like npcs. Just make sure to drop a shock reach before. It is nost the funniest build you can get out there, but it is a solid one with very low requirements (I use mine with skoria, knight slayer and Torug's).

A solution could be to get rid of the cost increase after dodge roll, but I'm afraid it would bring back rollers. Another solution could be to get rid of the befoul star. Considering that Anguish is a set that negates healing and that a group of snipers using that set can easily deal with anyone in Cyro. Maybe the proc should be applied as a debuff, so archers cannot just spam attacks to lock down melee and magicka builds.

Things I disliked:

Bridges and milegates have lost their fun. Now that can be destroyed they are just a magnet for zergs. One of the thing's I liked about Alessia's bridge was the option to cross to the other side just under the bridge. Now that's almost impossible. Once the bridge has been destroyed, one of the factions can just turtle at the other side, with siege and snipers. There's zero strategy on that and it is a way to protect your faction resources without even playing the game. The only way to reach the other shore is just zerg all the way.

The locations of the new outpost are weird. 2 of them are on EP territory, loking towards Ghartok and Chim. That makes Farra and KC way easier to get for DC and AD than before. Yeah, I know Crops and Bruma are easy to access, but Bruma is quite far from Warden, so IDK why they did it that way.

That's all. I think my time in Cyro is done. Don't get me wrong, I killed a lot of guys there just using full heavy attacks with a shock staff, but the game has become more frustrating and less fun that it was at the beginning. Everyone seems to run an agenda of what they want and nobody seems to care about the game itself. Sure, templars got some buffs, but seeing guys that were stamblades last patch trying to run a templar just showcases how pathetic this community has become.

Xvorg

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

i'm not kidding, my front bar is (burning talons, fossilize, coag, whip, burning embers)
my back bar is (volatile armor, degeneration(light attacks healing you is always a + when weaving), wings, Flames of Oblivion, rapid regen (maelstrom resto))

based on you using having to build around lag, im assuming you play in vivec. you can build with bar swap animation canceling in mind if you play in shor/sotha (PC NA..)

balancing should not be made around lag.... find a way to get around the lag, like playing a less laggy campaign...

Of course, I used to play in Vivec. There's where the big fishes are, but you have to be very careful to avoid the piranhas.

Shor is just a ride in the park. Fighting guys with CP 250 can't be considered a challenge. From time to time you get a decent enemy, but the big majority are just potatoes (don't get me wrong, Vivec is also full of potatoes, but the decent enemies are much more than in Shor)

Sotha got me for a time, but after some time I leave it. To many weird things in that campaign. Don't want to say it, but when I remember Zazeergate... hmmm

Ramber

WOW... This is news to me, my stam DK is my best toon in pvp by far, it has the best shields, regen and ulti all made for pvp. I think all of the problems here are EVERYONE is trying to have a snare contest then do some damage later.. I DO NOT SNARE i just kill the other guy and i dont have a problem doing it with a stamDK. So drop the snares as they are so easy to break out of anyway and slot some regen or damage abilities.

IZZEFlameLash

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Whip is not hard to hit, it is hard to land. In live, after you use talons for CC the enemy rolls, so you had a hard time trying to synchronize your hits with the dmg window. Sure, you can use foss after that, but you have already burned about 9k magicka if you go with a HA set up. In LA you are forced to drop talons or foss to make space for anullement unless you are running 2 LA defensive sets (which it's kind of the same than using ofesive jewelry and a HA set, but with less health).

So it is not how you proc lash, it is the high cost it takes to proc lash. On a NB casting will takes casting grim focus and then 5 LA. On a Sorc, you play roulette with frags, it can proc after mage's fury or after a full rotation. The difference is that the proc can trigger after a full offensive rotation, while DK proc needs 2 CC that barely do dmg.

That's why a DK takes longer to kill an enemy than any other class even after 2 CCs. A NB can kill you easily after one CC, a Sorc kind of the same. And DK CCs are not something we can call cheap.

i run 6/7 light armor. sustain is not an issue. yes, i run a defensive set, but that is countered by 2 spell damage enchants on my jewelry. i have talons and fossilize, and it is not hard to sustain using the atro mundus.

Sure, a dk has a harder time procing the already near worthless powerlash, but DK damage doesnt come from that... it comes from dots. burning embers, volatile armor, burning talons, Flames of Oblivion. stack that damage, and people tend to start melting (templars -_-).

StShoot wrote: »

Only in pve or if you play your mag dk with a staff, but afterall i play my dk because its a dragon KNIGHT if i want to play restro destro i can go sorc or nb and it will perform better (dont even need to do HA there).

I have testet my mag dk now and those changes to powerrlash realy hurt. There is literally no reason to play a mag dk anymore, magpler is now the far superior magica melee class, and they provide good group support too. Hell its even more fun to play my magden and i always considered it the only magica class that sucks more than a dk.
Thx Zo$ thx for the hole new magica dk expirience .

And to all those who say the powerlash cost increase is not a big thing:
i have to spend 1000 magica every 6 secs (******* cooldown) 1000/6= 166 since the regen ticks every two seconds its equals a 333 regen nerf (166*2=333) and that on a class that allready has the worst sustain and that not includes the amount of magica i need to procc that ***.

If i *** up the math pls correct me i was in hurry and sorry for my bad english

S+B and resto staff. only combo worth running due to the amount of magicka you get back from the heavy attacks. inferno staff gives more damage, but you are going to melt. lightning staff..... no. ice staff? why would i waist my magicka stat blocking when i can weaving in heavy attacks to keep my stamina up, MUCH easier than i can land a full heavy with a staff??

if you hit power lash every 6 seconds, then you are spamming it and not playing the fight out, not playing smart with your resources.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

The cost matter quite significantly actually. It is basically another second of having no recovery in a typical DK build. Also, as said before, anim cancel does not make you hit any faster or 100% of the time especially when you are trying to hit people who know what they are doing, not some generic bowtard lightattacking you. Missing a Power Lash will cost us. And this cost makes the whip one of the most expensive spammables in the game. Now entering into 3.6k territory or so total without any sort of cost reductions.

id argue that anim canceling does make whip faster, but i haven't timed it to truly find out, so i cant give numbers.

in any case, it makes it almost invisible, thus making it much harder to dodge.

dks sustain is horrible, but this change really shouldn't effect much unless you constantly try to use powerlash at inopportune times, such as without them being fossilized.


tl:dr, mag dk did'nt really get hurt by this patch, some classes got hurt alot more. they are finally getting around to buffing templar again, so maybe, just maybe, DK will see some buffs in its future as well. Execute. Please.

It does not let you hit any faster. It's been done and said by many before. Literally, you cannot force anything to hit faster with animation cancel. You cannot bypass GCD. Power Lash cost change does hurt a lot more. Especially when you are trying to combat competent opponents. Sustain stat high = less damage. Less sustain = higher damage but you can expect to run dry a lot faster than your opponents of other classes especially. And every mDKs know Petrify+whip combo. Except that most people save for potatoes who stand there try to light attack will dodge roll unless lag helps the DK.

Ramber wrote: »

WOW... This is news to me, my stam DK is my best toon in pvp by far, it has the best shields, regen and ulti all made for pvp. I think all of the problems here are EVERYONE is trying to have a snare contest then do some damage later.. I DO NOT SNARE i just kill the other guy and i dont have a problem doing it with a stamDK. So drop the snares as they are so easy to break out of anyway and slot some regen or damage abilities.

I feel pretty fine in large groups too if that is what you mean. I also feel fine when I smack all Divines wearing people. But doesn't mean everything is okay in small scale and open world that is not large scale.

Gabriyl

I'm done with this game. Good luck guys, it's been a great 4 years but my time here has come to an end.

PoseidonEvil

yeah I feel the issue with DKs is sustain and ability cost, DKs can put out good dps numbers but not for very long it seems. also the lack of class execute is still kind of annoying

zParallaxz

I’ve been off the game ever since whip became dogeable lol. Abandon ship guys, there’s good tv to watch ( Tokyo ghoul, black clover) and there’s plenty of other games to play ( fortnite, cod, etc..)

zParallaxz

There’s no point in discussing this guys, we been ( giving feedback) for 5+ patches. Class reps won’t do anything different than what Zos currently does. It’s a small chance it gets better in the future.

Quantum_V

Thanks for the feedback!

@Xvorg I definately agree with all your points. Sustain changes is more than noticeable...

Going to work on a new DK document with new feedback! Keep it up!

John_Falstaff

@Quantum_V , what are your thoughts about the things I brought up earlier?

IZZEFlameLash

zParallaxz wrote: »

There’s no point in discussing this guys, we been ( giving feedback) for 5+ patches. Class reps won’t do anything different than what Zos currently does. It’s a small chance it gets better in the future.

It is a very unfortunate truth. They listen to forumblades asking for changes to Razorshot and Impreg immediately and yet they don't want DKs sustaining better outside of braindead PvE tanking.

John_Falstaff

Also, I've realized that I've been too wordy earlier in delivery of thoughts, so to spare @Quantum_V the time of ripping through it, my point was that our "unique group buff", 10% of weapon damage, is fastened to skill tree that is of dubious use for mDK damage dealers, and of no use at all for sDK damage dealers. So unlike with nightblades (who bring 3% critical to the table), DK damage dealers can't give group buff without going out of their way, simply by doing their stuff.

I'm usually trying not to suggest actual solutions (hey, what do I know), but I can see this passive fitting better into Ardent Flame tree, where mDK and sDK's bread-and-butter damage abilities are - whip, claw, breath, FoO/Cauterize (and the last one also would make it easier for the rare DK healers to bring that buff along).

The Uninvited

I actually find whip to hit more reliably after the update, feels less clunky now when in melee range. Sustain still an issue though.

Flame_of_Hades

@IZZEFlameLash
I was not referring to bypassing the GCD, i was referring to the time it takes the damage to apply after you cast the ability. power lash, for example, has a very long animation, which makes it easy to see and dodge. if you block cancel that animation, it not only becomes invisible, but the damage is applied near instantly instead of .5-1 seconds later when the animation would have finished. Ill time it the next time i log in and come back with numbers.

Xvorg

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

@IZZEFlameLash
I was not referring to bypassing the GCD, i was referring to the time it takes the damage to apply after you cast the ability. power lash, for example, has a very long animation, which makes it easy to see and dodge. if you block cancel that animation, it not only becomes invisible, but the damage is applied near instantly instead of .5-1 seconds later when the animation would have finished. Ill time it the next time i log in and come back with numbers.

That's what @IZZEFlameLash is trying to explain, the animation is not seen, but the dmg is not applied almost instantly, it is applied at normal rates. It seems to go faster, but it doesn't.

With a 2H sword and weaving a LA is easy to see that and you can put good dmg when using an oblivion glyph, the problem is that you can get locked in the LA animation

Andele

Xvorg wrote: »

That's what @IZZEFlameLash is trying to explain, the animation is not seen, but the dmg is not applied almost instantly, it is applied at normal rates. It seems to go faster, but it doesn't.

With a 2H sword and weaving a LA is easy to see that and you can put good dmg when using an oblivion glyph, the problem is that you can get locked in the LA animation

Actually LA+ability are "speed up"/applied instantly together if the ability is instant cast. Short of skills with a specific "pseduo cooldown" like on imbue weapon (where it doesnt matter if you block, roll or swap cancel or just let the animation play the downtime is set to the same if not longer if you dont let it run due to input time), its just "total amount of both skills and attacks cast per GCD and "attack speed" period" will always be the same if there is no input lag.

E.g. if the game had recovery/transitional animations locked at 0.5s with 1 input buffer instead of the 0.7~0.9 gcd, the damage over 2 second for DK doing light attack claw weave would be "LA 4k @ 0>Claw 4k @ 0.5>LA 4k @ 1>Claw 4k @ 1.5>LA 4k @ 2" instead of "Attack+Claw for 8k @ 0> Another 8k from Attack+Claw @ 0.8 > yet another 8k from Attack+Claw @ 1.6"