ESO Class Reps

Checkmath

h

Blobsky wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Lake wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Exactly what anja said, the discord was a disaster, for those interested in looking at structure can you post a summary here?

Here are the class-related summary pie charts Masel posted in the separate Discords:

So...
67.12% Nightblade total?
96.05% DK
114.47% Templar
97.38% Warden
122.37% Sorc

What is the remaining percentage? The ones above 100% are mathematically sound assuming an overlap of two options or more. Being under 100%, however, is mathematically impossible unless the data is wrong.

Also I'd like to point out that this doesn't show whether issues are a 'needs a buff' or 'needs a nerf' which are hugely important factors. On top of this, it doesn't differentiate between magicka and stamina.

Do you have a written summary of the MAIN issues specifically for each class? e.g. Cloak is heavily overperforming and allows a fight reset far too easily OR Cloak is buggy and unreliable to use.


PS: If you seriously buff petsorcs (as much of the sorc discussion was about) you need to understand how broken this is. This is coming from somebody who mains a petsorc as his Sorc playstyle and has a deep understanding of how to use it.

the charts are from the feedback form, where it was possible to not mark a topic to a comment, so basic feedback about a class without mentioning a topic results in less than 100% cake, meanwhile a feedback can include several topics and therefore counts for both, which is the reason to get more than 100%.
the charts dont show about what the feedback was specifically. the charts were only for the discords to show to the people, where to pain points are lying, not for showing what exactly the problem is. about the summary, i said 10 mins ago that Gina will post it later this day. the feedback we handed in to the devs was very precise including problems of stamina toons, magicka toons, the roles of tanks, healers and damage dealers. in most of the discords a summary of discussed things are already present. about sorc and pets, we never said we wanted to buff them, we want to change them.

Appreciate it, thank you. any idea when Gina will post the suggestions? @ZOS_GinaBruno

She is pretty busy but tries hard to get it together this evening the latest (so midinight for EU).

Blobsky

CrazYDunm3r wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

When will the summary of the first Class Rep Meeting be released?

we plan to release the summary today, so stay tuned

@Blobsky

No offence, but Spellcrafting was said to be released 'Soon' as was lag fix, a solid timescale is better xD

casparian

Blobsky wrote: »

CrazYDunm3r wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

When will the summary of the first Class Rep Meeting be released?

we plan to release the summary today, so stay tuned

@Blobsky

No offence, but Spellcrafting was said to be released 'Soon' as was lag fix, a solid timescale is better xD

Right, because Gina has ever done that.

Chill, Blobs

Liofa

Here is some info about common questions.

We created Discords because we can manage/edit discords but not forums. We can tag people, talk directly with voice/whispers a lot faster etc.

I am sorry if you feel that Discords are not clear. For me, it is very clear where specific things are being discussed. There are even specific text channels for some skills that need attention and being discussed about a lot. If we did discuss everything in a fewer amount of channels, it would be much harder to find what you are looking for.

We tagged @ everyone when we wanted opinions on specific questions and/or while giving important information (including the summary of feedback we discussed with Devs) to people and pin these comments for easy reach. In forums, only mods/admins have these powers and it is much harder for reps to make sure everyone heard what we say in forums. Even with these small problems for us continue to exist, we still made forum threads and a special feedback form for you to send feedback.

A lot of people are participating in the Discord channels. All of them are above 300 members and a lot of topics are actively being discussed. If you don't like the Discord, you can post in forums or use the feedback form. Ranting doesn't help you or us. We provided many ways to communicate with the players so that if people don't like one, they can choose the other.

About trust, we had people leaving Discords because many reasons (mostly drama) and starting to spread false/harmful information about this project. We are having it even right at this moment. Some people just can't change their minds about stuff due to their personality and will loudly bash this project, causing the ''trust'' problems you mentioned. Mostly because they are not capable of reading this single line Gina said in the first comment in this thread: ''As a reminder, the class reps will be collating top concerns for every class to present to the Dev Team; they will not be making game-altering decisions, but they will make sure your voice is heard.'' That means, we are not talking about our concerns. We are talking about players' concerns. If you see something that you disagree with, it is because majority of the feedback we got was about that. Again, we don't decide what we give to Devs, you do. Our responsibility is making sure your concerns are heard by Devs. If people could understand this simple information, we could do even better than what we did during the past 2 weeks. So, if you are worried that we will ''break the game'', you are wrong. We only said what majority of the players see as a concern. You'll see when notes are up that majority of what you saw in Discords, forums and the feedback form is there. We basically picked the most common concerns are brought them to Devs' attention.

About summary of the meeting, Gina is working on it at the moment. Patience.

Rickter

hence why i posted the following post:

Meaning: youre mind is already made up about this program. You are convinced this is a bad idea and your confirmation bias viewpoint looks for ways to support your conclusion.

I encourage you to be more open minded and put your faith into those chosen for this program. They most definitely have the community's interest in mind. Proof of that is the fact that you and me and everyone else here are in this Discord. You have to understand that this "council" (for lack of a better term) could have kept to themselves and engaged ZOS privately as ZOS essentially set that very thing up. But they didnt - they brought the entire community in, and have been soaking up our feedback like a sponge. In this discord you can see pinned messages of feedback used to approach ZOS this week. They didnt have to do that.

But let's put this in perspective some more: The purpose of the Class Rep Program, is to advise ZOS on ways that the community feels could improve gameplay, and balance the game by tackling pain points.

Where do you think those pain points are most prevalent? over world questing or casual normal mode trials?

No, they are experienced at competitive levels, where players are pushing these classes to their limits and thus, deficiencies start popping up. So yes, a lot of these discord discussions are going to err in that direction. I suggest you take this wonderful opportunity and LEARN there is a totally different game out there if you put in the time and knowledge.


but you know, @anitajoneb17_ESO says i needed to be more specific despite it being a truly encompassing general statement.. .

anitajoneb17_ESO

Rickter wrote: »

but you know, @anitajoneb17_ESO says i needed to be more specific despite it being a truly encompassing general statement.. .

You admitted yourself that this was the continuation of a Discord drama which you brought over here.

As to your "general statement", this shows that you don't care about anything but the competitive top 1%, and tell the rest of players to L2P. That is exactly what we're concerned about. But I discussed that extensively and constructively with Joy Division in this very thread, so I'm not starting the whole debate over.

Rickter

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

but you know, @anitajoneb17_ESO says i needed to be more specific despite it being a truly encompassing general statement.. .

You admitted yourself that this was the continuation of a Discord drama which you brought over here.

As to your "general statement", this shows that you don't care about anything but the competitive top 1%, and tell the rest of players to L2P. That is exactly what we're concerned about. But I discussed that extensively and constructively with Joy Division in this very thread, so I'm not starting the whole debate over.

no not really what I was trying to say at all. But it suits your narrative.

Minno

cool stuff! thanks for all the hard work class reps!

Love seeing those pie charts in one location. Would be cool to have that stickied on the forums for all to see (maybe as a locked thread or group discussion thread).

WeylandLabs

This is accomplishing nothing, as a console player for 3 years im ashamed at this community. Regardless of the platform you all try so hard to help the game yet for 3 - 4-1/2 years have gotten nowhere with balance.

Fact 1: Create an illusion of wants and needs on the forums.

Fact 2: Reply to wants and needs on the forums.

Fact 3: Do absolutely nothing about class balance for 3-4 years and watch this community tear each other to shreds.

Fact 4: There is no way to gauge true skill in ESO and ZOS wants it that way, everybody needs to understand that.

Fact 5: Can you keep giving them your money please. And this might be deleted for keeping it to real !

Fact 6: This will never be an Esport so stop trying to make it that.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Checkmath wrote: »

btw the summary of the meeting will be posted by Gina later this day, so stay patient, since that woman already has enough stuff to do without you guys in here asking for the summary all the time.

I will post it today, just have a few other things happening first that are taking priority.

Minno

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

btw the summary of the meeting will be posted by Gina later this day, so stay patient, since that woman already has enough stuff to do without you guys in here asking for the summary all the time.

I will post it today, just have a few other things happening first that are taking priority.

and hopefully way before 6pm! You guys over there need to close the office and get a head start on those summer Fridays :P

Elsonso

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

btw the summary of the meeting will be posted by Gina later this day, so stay patient, since that woman already has enough stuff to do without you guys in here asking for the summary all the time.

I will post it today, just have a few other things happening first that are taking priority.

So, thanks for that... meanwhile, any update on the summary?

Integral1900

The pie charts are a good idea

On a slightly fatuous note... sustain, on a sorcerer... is it even possible to run one of those flat

GandTheImpaler

Patience is a virtue. We're all working hard on this, INCLUDING ZoS. I'm always so baffled at how quickly people assume the worst. Wait for results then judge

ZOS_RichLambert

Minno wrote: »

and hopefully way before 6pm! You guys over there need to close the office and get a head start on those summer Fridays :P

More like run home and pack for E3 and our flights tomorrow morning. ;p

anitajoneb17_ESO

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

and hopefully way before 6pm! You guys over there need to close the office and get a head start on those summer Fridays :P

More like run home and pack for E3 and our flights tomorrow morning. ;p

Do you have to wear pants for E3 ?

anitajoneb17_ESO

GandTheImpaler wrote: »

Patience is a virtue. We're all working hard on this, INCLUDING ZoS. I'm always so baffled at how quickly people assume the worst. Wait for results then judge

Looool ... does it feel like "the other side of the barrier" already ?

Minno

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

and hopefully way before 6pm! You guys over there need to close the office and get a head start on those summer Fridays :P

More like run home and pack for E3 and our flights tomorrow morning. ;p

Ooo Fancy E3 announcement?

We can only guess based on the number of pants you packed

ZOS_GinaBruno

Here you go: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7

Joy_Division

Blobsky wrote: »

Lake wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Exactly what anja said, the discord was a disaster, for those interested in looking at structure can you post a summary here?

Here are the class-related summary pie charts Masel posted in the separate Discords:

So...
67.12% Nightblade total?
96.05% DK
114.47% Templar
97.38% Warden
122.37% Sorc

What is the remaining percentage? The ones above 100% are mathematically sound assuming an overlap of two options or more. Being under 100%, however, is mathematically impossible unless the data is wrong.

Also I'd like to point out that this doesn't show whether issues are a 'needs a buff' or 'needs a nerf' which are hugely important factors. On top of this, it doesn't differentiate between magicka and stamina.

Do you have a written summary of the MAIN issues specifically for each class? e.g. Cloak is heavily overperforming and allows a fight reset far too easily OR Cloak is buggy and unreliable to use.


PS: If you seriously buff petsorcs (as much of the sorc discussion was about) you need to understand how broken this is. This is coming from somebody who mains a petsorc as his Sorc playstyle and has a deep understanding of how to use it.


As somebody pretty good with numbers, and with friends who study University level maths and above, I'd like to know how this data was actually got to understand how this chart was built, because the founding of the numbers is equally important as the chart. Else it is like having a graph of 'use of oil in countries' without any units.

You have given us zero chance from the start. None. From day 1 you have been hounding us on these forums, in the discords, and making it all that we are clueless, biased, and in general are bumbling around. Before 24 hours had past and the reps even had an introductory "Hi, I'm Joy from PC NA" with each other, you were already judging us.

You want to be an opinionated know-it-all who is dismissive of anyone who disagrees with you, I don't care. I do care, however, when you make these public broadcasts as if you had any clue as to what we are doing when you have none. Do you have any idea how much time I or the other reps take out of my day to read the forums, go through 1000s of posts on the discords, compile notes on what people are saying? All the more time consuming because certain people who shall remain nameless think the rep process is a perfect opportunity to insert drama or get on their soapbox about what needs to get nerfed. We just had our first meeting with the folks from ESO less than 24 hours ago. I was up until 2:00 in the morning typing out a 7 page summary of stuff we went over. If you were in our shoes, you would not stand for someone behaving as you have to us.

And just because you think pet sorcs are OP, strong, or whatever, does not make it so. If 46% of sorcerer players have issues with pets, we are not going to ignore them just because of your "deep understanding." Tell us, does your "deep understanding" extend to the frustration sorcerer players have when they do Atherian Archive and are told to put their pets away? Or that people who try to tank with the Clanfear get frustrated when it dies to boss mechanics are then left without a health based heal? Should we just tell all those players too bad, their pain points can be disregarded because there is this mix-maxer on the EU server whose a better PvPer than 99% of the community who thinks the game will break if something is done about pets?

No. If roughly half the people who are playing sorcerers are frustrated with pets, that is something that needs to be investigated further. If you want to be constructive rather than disruptive, why don;t you spend less time blindly cirticizing us and more time figuring out how the non-mix maxer who doesn't wear Sloads + Durok's while complaining how broken that combination is can have a better experience with a petsorc that wouldn't break them in small scale PvP.

DuskMarine

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Here you go: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7

before yall decide to nerf anything because of pvp please take into consideration your battle spirit buff........that yall can manipulate to fix most of these balance issues...........and stop messing up pve for pvp players please

Masel

Rickter wrote: »

ZOS is smart: make the class reps take all the negative publicity. . .

Honestly, I've had a lot of fun dealing with these guys because most of them can't handle it when the opposite party argues with reasoning and backs up claims with data

DuskMarine

Masel92 wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

ZOS is smart: make the class reps take all the negative publicity. . .

Honestly, I've had a lot of fun dealing with these guys because most of them can't handle it when the opposite party argues with reasoning and backs up claims with data

your one guy not a million. you have your playstyle not a million others. theres so many things that people are pissed off at zos about mostly because of you guys doing it instead of them its zoses job to figure this out not you guys or us. also it seems that your kindve cocky in my personal opinion something kindve bad in representation of others. this honestly is becoming a massive issue if zos hasnt already noticed this a very small margin are actually happy about this but the vast majority really cant stand it. we put our hopes for the game purely in zoses hands not other players. so you have to understand where each and every person comes from and you cannot react thinking purely your way being the only way that works well as someone elses playstyle might work better than yours does for that particular person.

Gprime31

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

lol, I see the list and know 2 of them are known exploiters. 1 of them is brazen about it...

Funny stuff.

LoL can’t wait to see this train wreck in action

Minno

DuskMarine wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

ZOS is smart: make the class reps take all the negative publicity. . .

Honestly, I've had a lot of fun dealing with these guys because most of them can't handle it when the opposite party argues with reasoning and backs up claims with data

your one guy not a million. you have your playstyle not a million others. theres so many things that people are pissed off at zos about mostly because of you guys doing it instead of them its zoses job to figure this out not you guys or us. also it seems that your kindve cocky in my personal opinion something kindve bad in representation of others. this honestly is becoming a massive issue if zos hasnt already noticed this a very small margin are actually happy about this but the vast majority really cant stand it. we put our hopes for the game purely in zoses hands not other players. so you have to understand where each and every person comes from and you cannot react thinking purely your way being the only way that works well as someone elses playstyle might work better than yours does for that particular person.

it might be ZOS job to make game changes, but think of this as a blood-line directly to the heart of the machine and the reps are your communication device.

Voice your opinion, state your reasons, then at the end of the day we all get to grab drinks and realize we are humans playing a silly video game lol.

Rickter

Class reps arent shining pillars of the community - they are regular people that have a lot of insight into the game that were RECOMMENDED in by the community that bothered to send in a recommendation to Gina when she asked.

with that being said, you cant expect them to maintain a respectful composure when met with the kind of push back this community has shown.

Many of you have your minds made up and are looking for ways to have this fail when really you should be doing everything you can to help these guys and bring the community together. Youre only causing strife when we should be one big ass team

DuskMarine

Minno wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

ZOS is smart: make the class reps take all the negative publicity. . .

Honestly, I've had a lot of fun dealing with these guys because most of them can't handle it when the opposite party argues with reasoning and backs up claims with data

your one guy not a million. you have your playstyle not a million others. theres so many things that people are pissed off at zos about mostly because of you guys doing it instead of them its zoses job to figure this out not you guys or us. also it seems that your kindve cocky in my personal opinion something kindve bad in representation of others. this honestly is becoming a massive issue if zos hasnt already noticed this a very small margin are actually happy about this but the vast majority really cant stand it. we put our hopes for the game purely in zoses hands not other players. so you have to understand where each and every person comes from and you cannot react thinking purely your way being the only way that works well as someone elses playstyle might work better than yours does for that particular person.

it might be ZOS job to make game changes, but think of this as a blood-line directly to the heart of the machine and the reps are your communication device.

Voice your opinion, state your reasons, then at the end of the day we all get to grab drinks and realize we are humans playing a silly video game lol.

it needs to be just zos doing this not any of us period. we dont have access to their spread sheets and stuff to actually check this stuff. getting their cp system(which needs replaced with something else in all honesty) down to the smallest decimal is hard enough for us without the stuff they see. so it should be zos doing this hands down thats why we pay them.

Gprime31

I want everything that kills me nerfed!!!!!!
And I want my fav class bufffed....
Anyone else see a problem here???

GandTheImpaler

Gprime31 wrote: »

I want everything that kills me nerfed!!!!!!
And I want my fav class bufffed....
Anyone else see a problem here???

A problem that could exist if that was what the reps were like

DuskMarine

GandTheImpaler wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

I want everything that kills me nerfed!!!!!!
And I want my fav class bufffed....
Anyone else see a problem here???

A problem that could exist if that was what the reps were like

we cant be to sure as weve already had some bad experiences already with some just being random and trolly instead of actually helping those of us that dont trust this program. this program is where trust needs to be built and i dont really see it.