PTS Patch Notes v4.0.4

Alarra

So all the bards I’ve been able to find are still singing Morrowind music. Were they supposed to be updated with the main music, or are the new songs coming at launch?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

No Dev Insight on the Mechanical Acuity nerf?

This is one of those things where uninformed popular opinion is causing devs to react, and in typical fashion, they are reacting badly.

First, I dont really see this set as being that OP. It is just not that far ahead of Julianos or Hundings for most specs, and requires more to manage. That seems a reasonable tradeoff. I know plenty of good DPS that dont bother with it, and the reality is that your average DPS will do better with Hundings/Julianos anyways. Also, it's a crafted set so nobody can cry foul because they cant get it.

Second, what is the point of the nerf? I would assume that it's to slightly lower the effective uptime of the proc. If we accept that the set is over performing, then that's a reasonable way to nerf it. But you didnt do that. You could have easily just added to the coolddown time, but you didnt. You change the damage type. So instead of a blanket nerf to the set accross the board, you actually made the nerf bigger for some of the currently weaker specs like templar, that dont do as much direct damage as some of the stronger classes, say a mageblade, who does quite a lot of direct damage.

TLDR: IMO the nerf was unnecessary, and even if it was, it was handled badly.

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me.

I do think you make some fair points, but my own observations do make me disagree somewhat.

First, I think you are overstating how far out in front MA is as a set. On live, there are many specs that dont use it. I dont run it on my mSorc (and who honestly plays mDK or mTemplar as a DPS in the current patch), and there are many stamina gear combos that are currently necessary that dont allow for everyone to run MA. Again, I am not for one second saying that its not a very powerful set.

Second, managing the set does matter to some degree. I totally agree that most players just equip and forget, but managing the proc and timing ultimates does impact DPS. There is a reason there are addons for this set. The first thing I noticed when I went from Julianos to MA is that the standard deviation between my parses shot up greatly. My highs were definitely higher, but some of the lows actually came in below the julianos parses. On a short fight like a 3 million health dummy, you likely arent trying to time your alt with the proc, and realistically, it comes down to a bit of luck. No secret that when people "farm parses" they pick the ones where everything did in fact line up to brag on the internet. In a trial, I absolutely track where my MA proc is, and will certainly hold off on an ulti for a few seconds to make sure it lines up. A lot of people dont want to bother with that, and a lot of people prefer consistency. Juli/Hundings both have merit for those types of people.

Third, I actually like that we have some sets that can just be on a front bar. It will allow players to equip a 5/5/2 setup and still run a VMA weapon that a lot of us spent months grinding for. From a Trials DPS standpoint, there arent a lot of front bar sets. Most damage sets really do need to be on both bars, and I honestly like the flexibility this was going to create. If anything, this just buffs front bar moondancer/master architect (much harder to get the weapons), which i do think will be a lot more popular next patch.

Lastly, my point still stands. I think the classes that are going to be able to take advantage of this change are not necessarily the classes that really need some help. If a nerf was to happen to this set, and admittedly, we all kinda new it was getting nerfed, I think they should have done it in a way that was more consistent across different specs.

I can't say I agree with most of your points here. While it is true that some specs are currently forced to run combos that don't allow for MA (mostly raid buffers), but everyone who can use the set should use it, as it is simply a straight up DPS upgrade. There isn't a single spec that wouldn't benefit from it. And you would be surprised about mDK on live, it is already insanely strong and nearly on par with stamina. It just hasn't caught on for the masses yet, only a few of the top raiders are aware. Next patch will only reinforce that fact with the added sustain.

I also personally haven't seen greater deviation on my parses after I started using Acuity. The lows from Acuity are about the same as the highs with Julianos. Bigger deviations with Acuity would suggest some errors within rotations itself, not necessarily the set. And of course, you could and should really push your parses up by timing your ultimates within the proc windows and using the addons available, but this is not necessary to make Acuity pull more DPS than other setups.

I agree with the fact that it was a good frontbar set that we will probably not be able to run on just frontbar anymore. But there are still other options, like you said Moondancer and Master architect will likely gain in popularity in that regard for frontbar setups. There will probably be other things emerging aswell that can be potential options.

And as far as your last point goes, I think this nerf was the best possible kind of nerf they could have done. If it was nerfed equally for all specs, it would simply become a useless set and be tossed aside for something else. Now it retains some usability for certain specs. And I think that's a good thing, for different specs and classes to use different sets instead of having a staple one size fits all.

I will try to avoid taking that as a cheap shot.

I will then follow by quoting arguably the best DPS in the game:

"-Something to remember about Acuity is that your results from boss to boss and dummy to dummy will likely vary quite a bit, that's just the nature of the set" - LZH

In the description section of his recent NB Build video. If he doesnt hit his rotation, I dont know who does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lu6IOwhCMI

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

No Dev Insight on the Mechanical Acuity nerf?

This is one of those things where uninformed popular opinion is causing devs to react, and in typical fashion, they are reacting badly.

First, I dont really see this set as being that OP. It is just not that far ahead of Julianos or Hundings for most specs, and requires more to manage. That seems a reasonable tradeoff. I know plenty of good DPS that dont bother with it, and the reality is that your average DPS will do better with Hundings/Julianos anyways. Also, it's a crafted set so nobody can cry foul because they cant get it.

Second, what is the point of the nerf? I would assume that it's to slightly lower the effective uptime of the proc. If we accept that the set is over performing, then that's a reasonable way to nerf it. But you didnt do that. You could have easily just added to the coolddown time, but you didnt. You change the damage type. So instead of a blanket nerf to the set accross the board, you actually made the nerf bigger for some of the currently weaker specs like templar, that dont do as much direct damage as some of the stronger classes, say a mageblade, who does quite a lot of direct damage.

TLDR: IMO the nerf was unnecessary, and even if it was, it was handled badly.

i think the only stats they look at are how many people crafted and golded out the set.

They do some version of this with every major update. Would be simpler just to log in and have 10% of your mats taken as 'update/balance/nerf' tax.

Sorry for double, but this made me laugh. I dont have that much acuity gear, but did (last weekend) just craft another set for my backup mageblade that I recently leveled, and I made a few pieces to mess with it on my sorc. They know, they always know...

Dymence

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

No Dev Insight on the Mechanical Acuity nerf?

This is one of those things where uninformed popular opinion is causing devs to react, and in typical fashion, they are reacting badly.

First, I dont really see this set as being that OP. It is just not that far ahead of Julianos or Hundings for most specs, and requires more to manage. That seems a reasonable tradeoff. I know plenty of good DPS that dont bother with it, and the reality is that your average DPS will do better with Hundings/Julianos anyways. Also, it's a crafted set so nobody can cry foul because they cant get it.

Second, what is the point of the nerf? I would assume that it's to slightly lower the effective uptime of the proc. If we accept that the set is over performing, then that's a reasonable way to nerf it. But you didnt do that. You could have easily just added to the coolddown time, but you didnt. You change the damage type. So instead of a blanket nerf to the set accross the board, you actually made the nerf bigger for some of the currently weaker specs like templar, that dont do as much direct damage as some of the stronger classes, say a mageblade, who does quite a lot of direct damage.

TLDR: IMO the nerf was unnecessary, and even if it was, it was handled badly.

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me.

I do think you make some fair points, but my own observations do make me disagree somewhat.

First, I think you are overstating how far out in front MA is as a set. On live, there are many specs that dont use it. I dont run it on my mSorc (and who honestly plays mDK or mTemplar as a DPS in the current patch), and there are many stamina gear combos that are currently necessary that dont allow for everyone to run MA. Again, I am not for one second saying that its not a very powerful set.

Second, managing the set does matter to some degree. I totally agree that most players just equip and forget, but managing the proc and timing ultimates does impact DPS. There is a reason there are addons for this set. The first thing I noticed when I went from Julianos to MA is that the standard deviation between my parses shot up greatly. My highs were definitely higher, but some of the lows actually came in below the julianos parses. On a short fight like a 3 million health dummy, you likely arent trying to time your alt with the proc, and realistically, it comes down to a bit of luck. No secret that when people "farm parses" they pick the ones where everything did in fact line up to brag on the internet. In a trial, I absolutely track where my MA proc is, and will certainly hold off on an ulti for a few seconds to make sure it lines up. A lot of people dont want to bother with that, and a lot of people prefer consistency. Juli/Hundings both have merit for those types of people.

Third, I actually like that we have some sets that can just be on a front bar. It will allow players to equip a 5/5/2 setup and still run a VMA weapon that a lot of us spent months grinding for. From a Trials DPS standpoint, there arent a lot of front bar sets. Most damage sets really do need to be on both bars, and I honestly like the flexibility this was going to create. If anything, this just buffs front bar moondancer/master architect (much harder to get the weapons), which i do think will be a lot more popular next patch.

Lastly, my point still stands. I think the classes that are going to be able to take advantage of this change are not necessarily the classes that really need some help. If a nerf was to happen to this set, and admittedly, we all kinda new it was getting nerfed, I think they should have done it in a way that was more consistent across different specs.

I can't say I agree with most of your points here. While it is true that some specs are currently forced to run combos that don't allow for MA (mostly raid buffers), but everyone who can use the set should use it, as it is simply a straight up DPS upgrade. There isn't a single spec that wouldn't benefit from it. And you would be surprised about mDK on live, it is already insanely strong and nearly on par with stamina. It just hasn't caught on for the masses yet, only a few of the top raiders are aware. Next patch will only reinforce that fact with the added sustain.

I also personally haven't seen greater deviation on my parses after I started using Acuity. The lows from Acuity are about the same as the highs with Julianos. Bigger deviations with Acuity would suggest some errors within rotations itself, not necessarily the set. And of course, you could and should really push your parses up by timing your ultimates within the proc windows and using the addons available, but this is not necessary to make Acuity pull more DPS than other setups.

I agree with the fact that it was a good frontbar set that we will probably not be able to run on just frontbar anymore. But there are still other options, like you said Moondancer and Master architect will likely gain in popularity in that regard for frontbar setups. There will probably be other things emerging aswell that can be potential options.

And as far as your last point goes, I think this nerf was the best possible kind of nerf they could have done. If it was nerfed equally for all specs, it would simply become a useless set and be tossed aside for something else. Now it retains some usability for certain specs. And I think that's a good thing, for different specs and classes to use different sets instead of having a staple one size fits all.

I will try to avoid taking that as a cheap shot.

Wasn't meant as one. I just honestly haven't seen the kind of deviations that you speak of with Acuity. The rest was simply educated guesses on what could be the reason for you to be seeing them.

Juhasow

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me

.

Depends how you define OP. If 2-3% gain on another similar crafted set is called OP then probably you need to redifine your explanation of OP. From the bolded part, I assume that you are looking at the set and int's performance from mSorc perspective, but then that is the beauty for this set, Stam and Mag Alike were able to use this set and get marginally better Results than the counterpart sets.
If some one had a 25k DPS with hunding or Julianos, Acuity didn't magically help them to get 35k DPS by just switching sets. Ofc SKills are a major part of DPS increase.

The variety...you are mistaken. There again will be 1 or 2 setups which will be BiS and Everyone and their Mothers will be using that.

TLDR: set was good before and now in order to push people to buy the new Chapter and the OP sets that are inc with it, ZOS decided to bring in this change as to make people look at other option. ZOS always demands from us to give a logical explanation for the changes we ask for, but at the same time for THIS PARTICULAR CHANGE, they failed to even give a simple comment let alone a logical explanation

.

The reasoning behind that is simple it is just You who tend to not see it.

I see You like to compare Mechanical Acuity to Julianos/Hunding's Rage but there is 1 simple thing You seem to not see in that comparision. Julianos and hunding are loosing a lot of their potential when You use them on weapons while acuity looses almost nothing when at the same time allows other sets to be weared on armor pieces and jewelery and because of that to have higher uptime.

When You have julianos/hunding weapons on front bar only Your uptime of 5th piece bonus drops down to 60-70% from regular 100% if You would have it on armor pieces. When You have acuity on front bar weapons Your uptime drops to 26-29% down from ~30% plus it allows to control proc so You'll very often proc it on front bar after swapping from back bar where You refreshed DoTs which will give additional dmg boost. So as You can see from slight adventage that acuity would have over other sets if You wear both on armor/jewelery pieces You can squeeze much more if You know how. That is adventage of acuity which creates gap between this set and other ones.

This adventage would be even stronger in Summerset where 2h weapons will be counted as 2 pieces so from now on not only stamina but also magicka builds will be able to run 5/5/2 setups on front bar with acuity weapons of any type

.

That's YOUR logic for the change? Because acuity can be used on the front Bar weapons? And Hunding/ Julianos can't be. have you actually ever compared these sets on Live or PTS that when these sets are used as described by you and ACUITY tend to OVERPERFORM compared to others?

If not then please go and do some Tests because I've done so and difference was at best 5%. Not saying that my findings on 1 particular class are the absolute but feel free to do your tests and then post it here.

All bellow numbers are avg of 4 x 6 mil parses- (pre 4.04 patch)

Acuity +Reliquem= 46182
Briahrheart + Reliquem = 44231
Acuity + Briarheart = 41814
Sunder + Acuity = 40260

Reliquem needs to be on always, and then you have 2 sets, which can be carried over to back and tell me if Acuity is OVER PERFORMING. If you'd look closely, it's not Acuity tht's over performing but the other set...I don't see anyone crying for that...Because it's new in town and Everyone and Their Mothers want to use it.

This adventage would be even stronger in Summerset where 2h weapons will be counted as 2 pieces so from now on not only stamina but also magicka builds will be able to run 5/5/2 setups on front bar with acuity weapons of any type.

- Mag builds are already using Acuity weapons on live. They already are running Either 5/5/1 or 5/4/2 The only advantage they are getting from this change is to run a full monster sets rather than just 1 piece.

First of all learn to use quote option.
Second of all just stop. If You think 5% DPS adventage over other sets in dummy tests is nothing or that for mag builds it'll be "just" adding second monster piece then we have nothing to discuss about since You simply lack of imagination over dummy tests and because of that You lack of understanging of how game end works. I could continue explaining why You're wrong in Your theories but since You proved You'll not understand simple correlations between things it's just pointless.

Side note : I strongly reccomend You to do further tests right now after the change on PTS instead of QQing on forum.

Gray_Raven

well that's unfortunate but tyvm!:)

BlazingDynamo

SevenPacer wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hayhurst wrote: »

Mechanical Acuity: This item set now only procs on direct damage instead of all damage.

Sneaking it in on the last iteration.
Who would of seen that coming ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Some people might call this a nerf, I call it a BUFF. I would much rather be able to control when Acuity procs than to have it proc off some random DOT.

You can already control your Acuity proc if u're somewhat familiar to your rotation or even with Acuity Timer. I see zero points in calling this a buff, lul.

Not everyone has an add on that tells them what to do at the right time lul

Juhasow

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

No Dev Insight on the Mechanical Acuity nerf?

This is one of those things where uninformed popular opinion is causing devs to react, and in typical fashion, they are reacting badly.

First, I dont really see this set as being that OP. It is just not that far ahead of Julianos or Hundings for most specs, and requires more to manage. That seems a reasonable tradeoff. I know plenty of good DPS that dont bother with it, and the reality is that your average DPS will do better with Hundings/Julianos anyways. Also, it's a crafted set so nobody can cry foul because they cant get it.

Second, what is the point of the nerf? I would assume that it's to slightly lower the effective uptime of the proc. If we accept that the set is over performing, then that's a reasonable way to nerf it. But you didnt do that. You could have easily just added to the coolddown time, but you didnt. You change the damage type. So instead of a blanket nerf to the set accross the board, you actually made the nerf bigger for some of the currently weaker specs like templar, that dont do as much direct damage as some of the stronger classes, say a mageblade, who does quite a lot of direct damage.

TLDR: IMO the nerf was unnecessary, and even if it was, it was handled badly.

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me.

I do think you make some fair points, but my own observations do make me disagree somewhat.

First, I think you are overstating how far out in front MA is as a set. On live, there are many specs that dont use it. I dont run it on my mSorc (and who honestly plays mDK or mTemplar as a DPS in the current patch), and there are many stamina gear combos that are currently necessary that dont allow for everyone to run MA. Again, I am not for one second saying that its not a very powerful set.

Second, managing the set does matter to some degree. I totally agree that most players just equip and forget, but managing the proc and timing ultimates does impact DPS. There is a reason there are addons for this set. The first thing I noticed when I went from Julianos to MA is that the standard deviation between my parses shot up greatly. My highs were definitely higher, but some of the lows actually came in below the julianos parses. On a short fight like a 3 million health dummy, you likely arent trying to time your alt with the proc, and realistically, it comes down to a bit of luck. No secret that when people "farm parses" they pick the ones where everything did in fact line up to brag on the internet. In a trial, I absolutely track where my MA proc is, and will certainly hold off on an ulti for a few seconds to make sure it lines up. A lot of people dont want to bother with that, and a lot of people prefer consistency. Juli/Hundings both have merit for those types of people.

Third, I actually like that we have some sets that can just be on a front bar. It will allow players to equip a 5/5/2 setup and still run a VMA weapon that a lot of us spent months grinding for. From a Trials DPS standpoint, there arent a lot of front bar sets. Most damage sets really do need to be on both bars, and I honestly like the flexibility this was going to create. If anything, this just buffs front bar moondancer/master architect (much harder to get the weapons), which i do think will be a lot more popular next patch.

Lastly, my point still stands. I think the classes that are going to be able to take advantage of this change are not necessarily the classes that really need some help. If a nerf was to happen to this set, and admittedly, we all kinda new it was getting nerfed, I think they should have done it in a way that was more consistent across different specs.

I can't say I agree with most of your points here. While it is true that some specs are currently forced to run combos that don't allow for MA (mostly raid buffers), but everyone who can use the set should use it, as it is simply a straight up DPS upgrade. There isn't a single spec that wouldn't benefit from it. And you would be surprised about mDK on live, it is already insanely strong and nearly on par with stamina. It just hasn't caught on for the masses yet, only a few of the top raiders are aware. Next patch will only reinforce that fact with the added sustain.

I also personally haven't seen greater deviation on my parses after I started using Acuity. The lows from Acuity are about the same as the highs with Julianos. Bigger deviations with Acuity would suggest some errors within rotations itself, not necessarily the set. And of course, you could and should really push your parses up by timing your ultimates within the proc windows and using the addons available, but this is not necessary to make Acuity pull more DPS than other setups.

I agree with the fact that it was a good frontbar set that we will probably not be able to run on just frontbar anymore. But there are still other options, like you said Moondancer and Master architect will likely gain in popularity in that regard for frontbar setups. There will probably be other things emerging aswell that can be potential options.

And as far as your last point goes, I think this nerf was the best possible kind of nerf they could have done. If it was nerfed equally for all specs, it would simply become a useless set and be tossed aside for something else. Now it retains some usability for certain specs. And I think that's a good thing, for different specs and classes to use different sets instead of having a staple one size fits all.

I will try to avoid taking that as a cheap shot.

I will then follow by quoting arguably the best DPS in the game:

"-Something to remember about Acuity is that your results from boss to boss and dummy to dummy will likely vary quite a bit, that's just the nature of the set" - LZH

In the description section of his recent NB Build video. If he doesnt hit his rotation, I dont know who does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lu6IOwhCMI

You do realize that the person You're quoting and linking video of right now is fine with MA change right ?

UrbanMonk

@Juhasow - Chill out man. Don’t be so hard on yourself if you are not ready to listen to opinions against yours.
Regarding your explanation, we haven’t seen anything eye opening in your last comment or this one either, so I really have no clue what you are so stressed about.
Either put out some numbers and explain what it is you are trying to explain or whatever ...I couldn’t care less.

StShoot

jaws343 wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

A little disappointed to say the least.

You can’t simply release PTS 1 (4.0.0) with several class balance changes and then ignore the player feedback on thouse changes and don’t review them.

Just because they decide to not make any further changes doesn't mean they chose to ignore feedback and not review them. Maybe, after review, they found the feedback unhelpful and decided to go through with the changes anyway. Just because feedback is given, doesn't mean that feedback has to be considered or that the feedback is even good.

Guess those are your first Natch Potes ? ^^

StShoot

Ankael07 wrote: »

What happened to the famous streamers who were called to the ZoS headquarters (or wherever)? Did they suggest ZoS to recruit 10 more people for councilling on class balance?

We will never see them again i guess

Merlin13KAGL

I see a lot of the justifications saying Julianos/Hundings should be the baseline.

For all intents and purposes, Julianos is magicka's Hundings and Hundings is stamina's Julianos.

So the argument that MA was used by all classes, now reverting to Julings/Hundianos being used by (most) all classes doesn't really make a lot of sense.

It let you build a different way, allowing lower base crit builds some options.

Effectively reverting the new Meta back to the old Meta still kinda makes it Meta either way, does it not?

usmcjdking

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I see a lot of the justifications saying Julianos/Hundings should be the baseline.

For all intents and purposes, Julianos is magicka's Hundings and Hundings is stamina's Julianos.

So the argument that MA was used by all classes, now reverting to Julings/Hundianos being used by (most) all classes doesn't really make a lot of sense.

It let you build a different way, allowing lower base crit builds some options.

Effectively reverting the new Meta back to the old Meta still kinda makes it Meta either way, does it not?

You missed the point that is being made. Hunding's/Julianos is the pace car. A lot of sets outperform them in given scenarios, but no set can universally outdo them on any given spec - which was the problem with MA. Look at average up times of procsets that give damage in PVE. With the the exception of Ravager, most sets yield ~300 damage over time.

MA is most comparable to Leviathan and Sad Mommy with the problem of its 5pc almost completely ouperforming the aforementioned 1-5pc and vastly outperforming them if it's only
Singlebarred.

Strangely enough, advancing yokeda is offering a near permanent 12% critical buff, making it a strong successor to MA for stamina.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Juhasow wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

No Dev Insight on the Mechanical Acuity nerf?

This is one of those things where uninformed popular opinion is causing devs to react, and in typical fashion, they are reacting badly.

First, I dont really see this set as being that OP. It is just not that far ahead of Julianos or Hundings for most specs, and requires more to manage. That seems a reasonable tradeoff. I know plenty of good DPS that dont bother with it, and the reality is that your average DPS will do better with Hundings/Julianos anyways. Also, it's a crafted set so nobody can cry foul because they cant get it.

Second, what is the point of the nerf? I would assume that it's to slightly lower the effective uptime of the proc. If we accept that the set is over performing, then that's a reasonable way to nerf it. But you didnt do that. You could have easily just added to the coolddown time, but you didnt. You change the damage type. So instead of a blanket nerf to the set accross the board, you actually made the nerf bigger for some of the currently weaker specs like templar, that dont do as much direct damage as some of the stronger classes, say a mageblade, who does quite a lot of direct damage.

TLDR: IMO the nerf was unnecessary, and even if it was, it was handled badly.

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me.

I do think you make some fair points, but my own observations do make me disagree somewhat.

First, I think you are overstating how far out in front MA is as a set. On live, there are many specs that dont use it. I dont run it on my mSorc (and who honestly plays mDK or mTemplar as a DPS in the current patch), and there are many stamina gear combos that are currently necessary that dont allow for everyone to run MA. Again, I am not for one second saying that its not a very powerful set.

Second, managing the set does matter to some degree. I totally agree that most players just equip and forget, but managing the proc and timing ultimates does impact DPS. There is a reason there are addons for this set. The first thing I noticed when I went from Julianos to MA is that the standard deviation between my parses shot up greatly. My highs were definitely higher, but some of the lows actually came in below the julianos parses. On a short fight like a 3 million health dummy, you likely arent trying to time your alt with the proc, and realistically, it comes down to a bit of luck. No secret that when people "farm parses" they pick the ones where everything did in fact line up to brag on the internet. In a trial, I absolutely track where my MA proc is, and will certainly hold off on an ulti for a few seconds to make sure it lines up. A lot of people dont want to bother with that, and a lot of people prefer consistency. Juli/Hundings both have merit for those types of people.

Third, I actually like that we have some sets that can just be on a front bar. It will allow players to equip a 5/5/2 setup and still run a VMA weapon that a lot of us spent months grinding for. From a Trials DPS standpoint, there arent a lot of front bar sets. Most damage sets really do need to be on both bars, and I honestly like the flexibility this was going to create. If anything, this just buffs front bar moondancer/master architect (much harder to get the weapons), which i do think will be a lot more popular next patch.

Lastly, my point still stands. I think the classes that are going to be able to take advantage of this change are not necessarily the classes that really need some help. If a nerf was to happen to this set, and admittedly, we all kinda new it was getting nerfed, I think they should have done it in a way that was more consistent across different specs.

I can't say I agree with most of your points here. While it is true that some specs are currently forced to run combos that don't allow for MA (mostly raid buffers), but everyone who can use the set should use it, as it is simply a straight up DPS upgrade. There isn't a single spec that wouldn't benefit from it. And you would be surprised about mDK on live, it is already insanely strong and nearly on par with stamina. It just hasn't caught on for the masses yet, only a few of the top raiders are aware. Next patch will only reinforce that fact with the added sustain.

I also personally haven't seen greater deviation on my parses after I started using Acuity. The lows from Acuity are about the same as the highs with Julianos. Bigger deviations with Acuity would suggest some errors within rotations itself, not necessarily the set. And of course, you could and should really push your parses up by timing your ultimates within the proc windows and using the addons available, but this is not necessary to make Acuity pull more DPS than other setups.

I agree with the fact that it was a good frontbar set that we will probably not be able to run on just frontbar anymore. But there are still other options, like you said Moondancer and Master architect will likely gain in popularity in that regard for frontbar setups. There will probably be other things emerging aswell that can be potential options.

And as far as your last point goes, I think this nerf was the best possible kind of nerf they could have done. If it was nerfed equally for all specs, it would simply become a useless set and be tossed aside for something else. Now it retains some usability for certain specs. And I think that's a good thing, for different specs and classes to use different sets instead of having a staple one size fits all.

I will try to avoid taking that as a cheap shot.

I will then follow by quoting arguably the best DPS in the game:

"-Something to remember about Acuity is that your results from boss to boss and dummy to dummy will likely vary quite a bit, that's just the nature of the set" - LZH

In the description section of his recent NB Build video. If he doesnt hit his rotation, I dont know who does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lu6IOwhCMI

You do realize that the person You're quoting and linking video of right now is fine with MA change right ?

Well, that wasnt the reason I was quoting him. Reasonable minds can disagree on balance changes. End of the day, I will adapt and move on.

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

No Dev Insight on the Mechanical Acuity nerf?

This is one of those things where uninformed popular opinion is causing devs to react, and in typical fashion, they are reacting badly.

First, I dont really see this set as being that OP. It is just not that far ahead of Julianos or Hundings for most specs, and requires more to manage. That seems a reasonable tradeoff. I know plenty of good DPS that dont bother with it, and the reality is that your average DPS will do better with Hundings/Julianos anyways. Also, it's a crafted set so nobody can cry foul because they cant get it.

Second, what is the point of the nerf? I would assume that it's to slightly lower the effective uptime of the proc. If we accept that the set is over performing, then that's a reasonable way to nerf it. But you didnt do that. You could have easily just added to the coolddown time, but you didnt. You change the damage type. So instead of a blanket nerf to the set accross the board, you actually made the nerf bigger for some of the currently weaker specs like templar, that dont do as much direct damage as some of the stronger classes, say a mageblade, who does quite a lot of direct damage.

TLDR: IMO the nerf was unnecessary, and even if it was, it was handled badly.

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me.

I do think you make some fair points, but my own observations do make me disagree somewhat.

First, I think you are overstating how far out in front MA is as a set. On live, there are many specs that dont use it. I dont run it on my mSorc (and who honestly plays mDK or mTemplar as a DPS in the current patch), and there are many stamina gear combos that are currently necessary that dont allow for everyone to run MA. Again, I am not for one second saying that its not a very powerful set.

Second, managing the set does matter to some degree. I totally agree that most players just equip and forget, but managing the proc and timing ultimates does impact DPS. There is a reason there are addons for this set. The first thing I noticed when I went from Julianos to MA is that the standard deviation between my parses shot up greatly. My highs were definitely higher, but some of the lows actually came in below the julianos parses. On a short fight like a 3 million health dummy, you likely arent trying to time your alt with the proc, and realistically, it comes down to a bit of luck. No secret that when people "farm parses" they pick the ones where everything did in fact line up to brag on the internet. In a trial, I absolutely track where my MA proc is, and will certainly hold off on an ulti for a few seconds to make sure it lines up. A lot of people dont want to bother with that, and a lot of people prefer consistency. Juli/Hundings both have merit for those types of people.

Third, I actually like that we have some sets that can just be on a front bar. It will allow players to equip a 5/5/2 setup and still run a VMA weapon that a lot of us spent months grinding for. From a Trials DPS standpoint, there arent a lot of front bar sets. Most damage sets really do need to be on both bars, and I honestly like the flexibility this was going to create. If anything, this just buffs front bar moondancer/master architect (much harder to get the weapons), which i do think will be a lot more popular next patch.

Lastly, my point still stands. I think the classes that are going to be able to take advantage of this change are not necessarily the classes that really need some help. If a nerf was to happen to this set, and admittedly, we all kinda new it was getting nerfed, I think they should have done it in a way that was more consistent across different specs.

I can't say I agree with most of your points here. While it is true that some specs are currently forced to run combos that don't allow for MA (mostly raid buffers), but everyone who can use the set should use it, as it is simply a straight up DPS upgrade. There isn't a single spec that wouldn't benefit from it. And you would be surprised about mDK on live, it is already insanely strong and nearly on par with stamina. It just hasn't caught on for the masses yet, only a few of the top raiders are aware. Next patch will only reinforce that fact with the added sustain.

I also personally haven't seen greater deviation on my parses after I started using Acuity. The lows from Acuity are about the same as the highs with Julianos. Bigger deviations with Acuity would suggest some errors within rotations itself, not necessarily the set. And of course, you could and should really push your parses up by timing your ultimates within the proc windows and using the addons available, but this is not necessary to make Acuity pull more DPS than other setups.

I agree with the fact that it was a good frontbar set that we will probably not be able to run on just frontbar anymore. But there are still other options, like you said Moondancer and Master architect will likely gain in popularity in that regard for frontbar setups. There will probably be other things emerging aswell that can be potential options.

And as far as your last point goes, I think this nerf was the best possible kind of nerf they could have done. If it was nerfed equally for all specs, it would simply become a useless set and be tossed aside for something else. Now it retains some usability for certain specs. And I think that's a good thing, for different specs and classes to use different sets instead of having a staple one size fits all.

I will try to avoid taking that as a cheap shot.

Wasn't meant as one. I just honestly haven't seen the kind of deviations that you speak of with Acuity. The rest was simply educated guesses on what could be the reason for you to be seeing them.

I know it wasnt. Just making a joke. And for the record, I typically agree with you on about 99% of other stuff. Anyway, we will see how it plays out. Like I said, I am fine with a nerf, we new one was coming, I am just worried that this set might have gone from OP to useless. Add it to the list.

Merlin13KAGL

usmcjdking wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I see a lot of the justifications saying Julianos/Hundings should be the baseline.

For all intents and purposes, Julianos is magicka's Hundings and Hundings is stamina's Julianos.

So the argument that MA was used by all classes, now reverting to Julings/Hundianos being used by (most) all classes doesn't really make a lot of sense.

It let you build a different way, allowing lower base crit builds some options.

Effectively reverting the new Meta back to the old Meta still kinda makes it Meta either way, does it not?

You missed the point that is being made. Hunding's/Julianos is the pace car. A lot of sets outperform them in given scenarios, but no set can universally outdo them on any given spec - which was the problem with MA. Look at average up times of procsets that give damage in PVE. With the the exception of Ravager, most sets yield ~300 damage over time.

MA is most comparable to Leviathan and Sad Mommy with the problem of its 5pc almost completely ouperforming the aforementioned 1-5pc and vastly outperforming them if it's only
Singlebarred.

Strangely enough, advancing yokeda is offering a near permanent 12% critical buff, making it a strong successor to MA for stamina.

No, I got it loud and clear.

Most sets average out to about +300 WD/SD. (The one's that go higher than this, Netch's, BSW, Sword Singer, Senche, etc, generally won't work for all skills, so it ends up averaging out to similar values) Most proc sets average out to +1k-3k DPS (before mitigation), even the mighty Zaan.

MA, in an absolutely impossible scenario added the max equivalent of 28% crit, and that's if you started at zero. Since builds generally can't help but have some crit % (usually low 30's, if no other modifiers are there), it ends up effectively adding less (~+20% more crit in the example above). Higher your baseline crit, the less benefit you got from running MA.

Granted, the power laid in the fact that you could effectively choose when this would happen, making for some seriously strong burst, but you still had to build for it to make this set truly shine.

Bladefyr

"A lot of sets outperform them in given scenarios, but no set can universally outdo them on any given spec - which was the problem with MA."

On my main, a DW magplar, MA outperforms every other set every time in every encounter (including trials) or dummy parse. According to my CMX, I've frequently had 30%+ (max 33%) acuity window up-time - average around 27-28%.

Sadly, the MA nerf will hit my magplar hard and likely see it sidelined from progression raiding since magplars are getting no love at all in this patch...again.

Nicko_Lps

Bladefyr wrote: »

"A lot of sets outperform them in given scenarios, but no set can universally outdo them on any given spec - which was the problem with MA."

On my main, a DW magplar, MA outperforms every other set every time in every encounter (including trials) or dummy parse. According to my CMX, I've frequently had 30%+ (max 33%) acuity window up-time - average around 27-28%.

Sadly, the MA nerf will hit my magplar hard and likely see it sidelined from progression raiding since magplars are getting no love at all in this patch...again.

Indeed totally agree on this, the direct damage only nerf leaves some classes with a good window of still taking a good benefit of it.
The lower chance to proc would be a fair nerf for all,dotters or not.

D0PAMINE

Excaltic wrote: »

Item Sets

Mechanical Acuity: This item set now only procs on direct damage instead of all damage.

Aaaaaaaannnnnd another nerf to the casuals!!! GG ZOS keep ruining your game for the normal folk!!! -.-

Just keep making this game run more and more around weaving and animation cancelling and pressing as many buttons per second as possible to become Pro/Gud/Elite...

The --ONLY-- players you just nerfed is the players who don't use animation cancel CHEATING!!!

Good to see the devs now make a statement to promote cheating... sad to see this...

Every other day this game becomes more and more like an elitist game where devs only listen to the pro youtubers/twitchers who have semi-direct contacts in the dev team, and remake the whole game to their own liking so they, and only they can shine on youtube / twitch...

Why on earth would a dev nerf the casuals and favour the cheaters... it should be the other way around...

Sad to see the devs never trying to boost dps and improve gameplay for the casuals...

At the moment, the difference between in DPS between non animation cancel / weavers is WAY to high

--> Casuals: 15~20k DPS MAX
--> Animation Cancel / Weaving cheaters: 50k DPS on average with EASE
==> Solution: Nerf a good set for only casuals!!! GG!!! -.-

This set is now 1001% garbage if you don't cheat 100% of the time...

An extreme over reaction. What? Mechanical Acuity is a set. Animation canceling is intended erm ahem, a feature.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Already scrapped mine, useless on a magsorc now

Solariken

@ZOS_Wrobel I'm hoping you guys find the time to sneak in a nerf to Speed Potions for Summerset... 100% uptime for one of the most powerful buffs in PvP at zero cost is quite excessive and honestly completely eliminates the primary drawback that some builds are supposed to have.

15 seconds at base (before Medicinal Use passive) would be more appropriate IMO.

BuddyAces

I'm still failing to see the logic here. MA is the best set, time to nerf it to hell and back so we can get back to wearing what we have been since forever. Heaven forbid this game actually moves forward and gives us new stuff to use, we wouldn't want that now. In four *** years we're still going to be using what we are using now. Maybe in four years we'll have to buy gear off the crown store if we want to use something other than hundings/julianos.

zParallaxz

Feanor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Y_Sync wrote: »

This is it?

YUP, if you were hoping for changes to other bugs or your preferred class, guess what? That feedback was straight up ignored!

That was to be expected though after Gina wrote 4.0.4 is going to be only fixed and polishing for the new skill line and the pve in Summerset.

That isn't exactly what I said...

Turns out it was just that though. Or would you say the patch doesn’t mainly concern Summerset PvE?

To be clear, our focus for the remaining PTS updates will be iteration and polish for the Psijic Order skill line, Light and Heavy Attack balancing, updating item sets, and fixing bugs.

Dam pulling up her own quote was funny asf.

davidcombs7

Hi @ZOS_GinaBruno

Please focus on optimizing battle spirit by adjusting block cost there, healing buffs, etc. vs nerfing sets.
Please try to get addons for console.(Combat Metrics, dressing room, etc.)
Please give us more gold mats for deconning gold gear.
Please reevaluate completion % of VHOF AND VASHM. Either buff players or nerf NPCs.
Please add guild store search function
Please give the portable banker guild bank access.
Please improve FPS(Focus on VHOF, VMOL, and all trials or dumb down visuals to handle the workload on the server side.
Please give us bigger crown discounts like before (20% isn't enough since they are 50% more than what they should cost for digital goods.)
If you don't support material sellers(botters?), you shouldnt support people selling skins for gold. Both ill gotten gains. Same approach you made to people shareplaying vma for others. Monitor 1m+ transactions and maybe the end game community would teach others instead of sell runs 24/7. End game community is pathetic nowadays as its the only thing they do to earn gold.
Please fix ERROR 34787-0, WHATEVER IT IS IT ONLY HAPPENS ON ESO. (I've port forwarded, put ps4 in DMZ mode, and I'm hardlined in with connection speeds of 100+ download and 5mb Upload speeds on ps4 connection tests.

ALSO: CONTENT ISNT CONTENT IF ONLY 1% BEAT IT (VHOF, VASHM)
(I consider myself an above avg player in multiple end game guilds)

Your dedicated fan of TES series,

-David

ezio45

davidcombs7 wrote: »

Hi @ZOS_GinaBruno

Please focus on optimizing battle spirit by adjusting block cost there, healing buffs, etc. vs nerfing sets.
Please try to get addons for console.(Combat Metrics, dressing room, etc.)
Please give us more gold mats for deconning gold gear.
Please reevaluate completion % of VHOF AND VASHM. Either buff players or nerf NPCs.
Please add guild store search function
Please give the portable banker guild bank access.
Please improve FPS(Focus on VHOF, VMOL, and all trials or dumb down visuals to handle the workload on the server side.
Please give us bigger crown discounts like before (20% isn't enough since they are 50% more than what they should cost for digital goods.)
If you don't support material sellers(botters?), you shouldnt support people selling skins for gold. Both ill gotten gains. Same approach you made to people shareplaying vma for others. Monitor 1m+ transactions and maybe the end game community would teach others instead of sell runs 24/7. End game community is pathetic nowadays as its the only thing they do to earn gold.
Please fix ERROR 34787-0, WHATEVER IT IS IT ONLY HAPPENS ON ESO. (I've port forwarded, put ps4 in DMZ mode, and I'm hardlined in with connection speeds of 100+ download and 5mb Upload speeds on ps4 connection tests.

ALSO: CONTENT ISNT CONTENT IF ONLY 1% BEAT IT (VHOF, VASHM)
(I consider myself an above avg player in multiple end game guilds)

Your dedicated fan of TES series,

-David

forgot nerf jewelry grind and balance classes

DHale

I always get a sad chuckle when people say such and such set was doing way too much damage.says who, why do you care, was the dungeon bosses union complaining about being killed too quickly? If you don’t want to run a certain set don’t run it. If I want to run a set that works well in pve myob.

mocap

very small and old "imperfection" - Elegance set is in heavy armor overland coffer.