PTS Patch Notes v4.0.4

ak_pvp

jaws343 wrote: »

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Quantum_V wrote: »

A little disappointed to say the least.

You can’t simply release PTS 1 (4.0.0) with several class balance changes and then ignore the player feedback on thouse changes and don’t review them.

Just because they decide to not make any further changes doesn't mean they chose to ignore feedback and not review them. Maybe, after review, they found the feedback unhelpful and decided to go through with the changes anyway. Just because feedback is given, doesn't mean that feedback has to be considered or that the feedback is even good.

They found the feedback unhelpful, you mean to tell me they found all the feedback unhelpful. Literally none of it is useful?

Here is one super obvious one, wings. The snare removal is useless, its not just underwhelming, the snares are reapplied straight away.

Skullstachio

Item Sets
Mechanical Acuity: This item set now only procs on direct damage instead of all damage.

Definitely saw that coming from a mile away, but because My werewarden build is soon going to be focused around physical damage, it won’t be much of an issue. Especially for stamina builds all-round.

Runefang

Azyle1 wrote: »

I don't think the MA thing is a nerf, btw...

If we can contorl when it procs more, that is going to make DPS tests higher and stuff.

IMO, it's a good thing.

I already controlled the proc, I swapped to my front bar where all my high damage single target abilities were used while my DoTs were active. I applied all my DoTs on my back bar where Acuity couldn't proc.

Now I have a 15% chance on direct damage to activate it. And it might well activate on my last direct damage ability on my front bar...

So the downtime is definitely increased and the chances of it proccing right between swapping to re-apply DoTs is higher. Too big a nerf, now we all move back to other sets.

They needed to change it to 30%-35% chance on direct damage. Maaaybe if you run force pulse it's still viable since its a triple chance. But its not going to be viable for stamina toons.

A completely needless and badly thought out nerf, why not cap it at 80% or 90% crit chance instead of 100% if its over performing.

usmcjdking

Runefang wrote: »

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Azyle1 wrote: »

I don't think the MA thing is a nerf, btw...

If we can contorl when it procs more, that is going to make DPS tests higher and stuff.

IMO, it's a good thing.

I already controlled the proc, I swapped to my front bar where all my high damage single target abilities were used while my DoTs were active. I applied all my DoTs on my back bar where Acuity couldn't proc.

Now I have a 15% chance on direct damage to activate it. And it might well activate on my last direct damage ability on my front bar...

So the downtime is definitely increased and the chances of it proccing right between swapping to re-apply DoTs is higher. Too big a nerf, now we all move back to other sets.

They needed to change it to 30%-35% chance on direct damage. Maaaybe if you run force pulse it's still viable since its a triple chance. But its not going to be viable for stamina toons.

A completely needless and badly thought out nerf, why not cap it at 80% or 90% crit chance instead of 100% if its over performing.

IDK, I like the nerf. I think it brings some sanity to the set and what it should be used for instead of the PVE catch-all it currently is.

Zulera301

I'm fine with the MA Nerf. it was bound to happen sooner or later anyways, cuz that's what happens when sets are overused, and by Dibella's garters every man and his mother was running MA it felt like.

Runefang

usmcjdking wrote: »

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Runefang wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

I don't think the MA thing is a nerf, btw...

If we can contorl when it procs more, that is going to make DPS tests higher and stuff.

IMO, it's a good thing.

I already controlled the proc, I swapped to my front bar where all my high damage single target abilities were used while my DoTs were active. I applied all my DoTs on my back bar where Acuity couldn't proc.

Now I have a 15% chance on direct damage to activate it. And it might well activate on my last direct damage ability on my front bar...

So the downtime is definitely increased and the chances of it proccing right between swapping to re-apply DoTs is higher. Too big a nerf, now we all move back to other sets.

They needed to change it to 30%-35% chance on direct damage. Maaaybe if you run force pulse it's still viable since its a triple chance. But its not going to be viable for stamina toons.

A completely needless and badly thought out nerf, why not cap it at 80% or 90% crit chance instead of 100% if its over performing.

IDK, I like the nerf. I think it brings some sanity to the set and what it should be used for instead of the PVE catch-all it currently is.

But in its current state it'll under perform compared to Julianos and Hundings, therefore it'll never get used. A nerf is fine since it is the catch-all you described at the moment, but it's too big a nerf. It wasn't like it was out performing Juli/Hundings by a long way anyway.

Millz

Finedaible wrote: »

Looks like Khajiit will remain at the bottom-of-the-barrel for any class in Summerset. Lowest health, stamina and magicka pools in the game, the smallest light and heavy attack damage from resource scaling, the lowest sustain, the only Khajiit strength (weapon critical % passive) is mitigated by Impenetrable in PvP... Not that their critical passive matters anyway since the introduction of Mechanical Acuity. Additionally, Thief and Shadow Mundus stones can no longer out-dps Warrior as far as i can tell.

So, what exactly would i choose Khajiit for this patch? Who am I kidding, there are no other races, THERE IS ONLY REDGUARD.

Orc master race

cazlonb16_ESO

Quantum_V wrote: »

A little disappointed to say the least.

You can’t simply release PTS 1 (4.0.0) with several class balance changes and then ignore the player feedback on thouse changes and don’t review them.

Why not ? We've been there before...

Ankael07

What happened to the famous streamers who were called to the ZoS headquarters (or wherever)? Did they suggest ZoS to recruit 10 more people for councilling on class balance?

pteam

Excaltic wrote: »

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Item Sets

Mechanical Acuity: This item set now only procs on direct damage instead of all damage.

Aaaaaaaannnnnd another nerf to the casuals!!! GG ZOS keep ruining your game for the normal folk!!! -.-

Just keep making this game run more and more around weaving and animation cancelling and pressing as many buttons per second as possible to become Pro/Gud/Elite...

The --ONLY-- players you just nerfed is the players who don't use animation cancel CHEATING!!!

Good to see the devs now make a statement to promote cheating... sad to see this...

Every other day this game becomes more and more like an elitist game where devs only listen to the pro youtubers/twitchers who have semi-direct contacts in the dev team, and remake the whole game to their own liking so they, and only they can shine on youtube / twitch...

Why on earth would a dev nerf the casuals and favour the cheaters... it should be the other way around...

Sad to see the devs never trying to boost dps and improve gameplay for the casuals...

At the moment, the difference between in DPS between non animation cancel / weavers is WAY to high

--> Casuals: 15~20k DPS MAX
--> Animation Cancel / Weaving cheaters: 50k DPS on average with EASE
==> Solution: Nerf a good set for only casuals!!! GG!!! -.-

This set is now 1001% garbage if you don't cheat 100% of the time...

Wait wait wait. Did this guy just say that weaving in light attacks between skills is cheating??

Vapirko

I was hoping beyond hope that they would tone down defile last minute and we wouldn’t have to endure another 3-12 months of lethal arrow and incap spam. Oh well. Now we can expect that on top of assassin will + imbue weapons proc.

Bladerunner1

Mechanical Acuity is no bueno IMHO. It has a turned into slot machine dps, sometimes good sometimes bad since there's roughly a 10% chance that it won't proc during a front bar rotation of a mechanical acuity weapon. This compounds into a 50+% chance on magblade that it will throw off the rotation some time during a 2 minute fight. There's maybe 30% chance of messing up a stamblade rotation over 2 minutes since rending slashes applies two direct damage ticks and the rotations are longer.

It was already hard enough getting the proc when you wanted it in a fight.

OH WELL, guess there just weren't enough PTS testers that actually tried it during the Clockwork City PTS.

Try it out now and post your results rather than say it's just fine the way it is, this is the last week to do it. Or show off some scientific results explaining why it's still worth slotting.

Here are my two dummy tests with a light attack weaving Bosmer stamblade:

Briarheart dagger / axe + Spriggan's-
39,575 39,826 40,729 40,880 41,302
Average 40,462

Mechanical Acuity mace / axe + Spriggan's-
38,421 39,314 40,735 40,893 40,979 41,093 42,756 42,819
AVERAGE 40,876

Marabornwingrion

Excaltic wrote: »

show previous quotes

Item Sets

Mechanical Acuity: This item set now only procs on direct damage instead of all damage.

Aaaaaaaannnnnd another nerf to the casuals!!! GG ZOS keep ruining your game for the normal folk!!! -.-

Just keep making this game run more and more around weaving and animation cancelling and pressing as many buttons per second as possible to become Pro/Gud/Elite...

The --ONLY-- players you just nerfed is the players who don't use animation cancel CHEATING!!!

Good to see the devs now make a statement to promote cheating... sad to see this...

Every other day this game becomes more and more like an elitist game where devs only listen to the pro youtubers/twitchers who have semi-direct contacts in the dev team, and remake the whole game to their own liking so they, and only they can shine on youtube / twitch...

Why on earth would a dev nerf the casuals and favour the cheaters... it should be the other way around...

Sad to see the devs never trying to boost dps and improve gameplay for the casuals...

At the moment, the difference between in DPS between non animation cancel / weavers is WAY to high

--> Casuals: 15~20k DPS MAX
--> Animation Cancel / Weaving cheaters: 50k DPS on average with EASE
==> Solution: Nerf a good set for only casuals!!! GG!!! -.-

This set is now 1001% garbage if you don't cheat 100% of the time...

Everything in this game have been already nerfed because of casuals. Lmao

Derra

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think it would be a good idea for ZOS to communicate in plain and meaningful terms exactly what the plan going forward with class balance.

We got changes introduced in this patch there were tested and some red flags occurred during that test phase. In the past, some of the concerns were addressed before the PTS hit Live.

Why are things different this time?

What i could imagine is: ZOS wants to see how the changes affect their "real world" combat.
PTS is and always was very dueling centric.

This doesn´t really reflect real open world/bg encounters and might be why certain issues didn´t get adressed.
People said/say the same things about shieldbreaker they say about sload now. Yet it´s rarely used open world.
Overload potential dmg is virtually unchanged (we´re talking 10% dmg increase on a 20 to 22k hit).
Cage hardcounters squish builds - yet how often do you have time to setup a rotation open world and how many of those builds do you meet in the first place? If we´re being honest there isn´t much difference between trying to run 22k light armor builds on live and getting instagibbed from sneak without being able to defend and being caged on pts in medium 22k hp.

I´m not saying i agree with them. But i can see reasoning why things pvp related (not pve) wouldn´t get adressed due to previous pts testing and feedback.

AefionBloodclaw

Disappointing. I've written down a whole bunch of issues I was hoping would get addressed, many of them are big issues posted about in the pts forums and not one got changed (or has even been acknowledged by ZoS.)

So, they ignore player feedback again, what's new

ccfeeling

MA effect lasts only 5 sec , we still need time to swap bar ! How you guys add one more condition to MA !

I have no idea how this combat team run ! OH MY GOD !

The performance of original MA and Juli are very close , it depends on the build and play styles .

Flat value damages vs unstable damages , you get it GINA ? you really get it GINA ?

Feanor

ccfeeling wrote: »

MA effect lasts only 5 sec , we still need time to swap bar ! How you guys add one more condition to MA !

I have no idea how this combat team run ! OH MY GOD !

The performance of original MA and Juli are very close , it depends on the build and play styles .

Flat value damages vs unstable damages , you get it GINA ? you really get it GINA ?

It’s not one more condition. It’s a different condition now. Sets get adjusted all the time, especially when they get too popular. It happened to BSW, it happened to Necro. The last set I golded out was Necro. I generally don’t do this any more except for weapons and glyphs as the difference between purple and gold is so small in everything else. Saves me a lot of trouble and anger. Also Gina isn’t the Combat Team.

ccfeeling

Feanor wrote: »

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ccfeeling wrote: »

MA effect lasts only 5 sec , we still need time to swap bar ! How you guys add one more condition to MA !

I have no idea how this combat team run ! OH MY GOD !

The performance of original MA and Juli are very close , it depends on the build and play styles .

Flat value damages vs unstable damages , you get it GINA ? you really get it GINA ?

It’s not one more condition. It’s a different condition now. Sets get adjusted all the time, especially when they get too popular. It happened to BSW, it happened to Necro. The last set I golded out was Necro. I generally don’t do this any more except for weapons and glyphs as the difference between purple and gold is so small in everything else. Saves me a lot of trouble and anger. Also Gina isn’t the Combat Team.

You right !

Elsterchen

Well, to be fair: After the basic combat calculation was changed in PTS and a big number of new set/jewellery combinations are possible on PTS any feedback gathered before PTS is useless and may go straight to the trashbin.

For those that don't understand: Changes to basic assumtion alters outcome. Arguments (suggestions) made before PTS, assumed a fairly similar combat mechanic to live... with changes to damage calculation as well as the introduction of more build options these basic assumtions are outdated.

Yet, imo this is only half the truth, because why change some basic mechanics while other (i.e. most abilities, most sets, indirect influences on combat, like ressource regeneration, buff and debuff availability for roles/classes) remain unchanged? I understand that a complete new metric of combat mechanics is tons of work ...and no player was asking for that! I don't understand why the changes to basic combat mechanics have been implemented half-way through, leaving us with a combat system that is not only just as unbalanced as the one currently on live, but also so different that everything and every combination has to be retested in order to provide the feedback ZOS asks for.

Why put yourself and your customers in such an unfavourable and dividing position without any need?

Septimus_Magna

The comments regarding animation cancelling cheaters and Acuity being a casual set are absolutely hilarious!

The Acuity nerf does feel like a strategic move.
With the new Summerset trail Cloudrest there are better DD sets obtainable.
What better way to encourage players to buy the new Chapter than to nerf their current BiS gear and introduce a new one?

Not that this is anything new but I would prefer multiple good sets that all have their place depending on the build or the fight.

Altyrann

Acuity being nerfed isn't the end of the world alone, but it does leave Magicka struggling for a really good set where the 5pc bonus works across bars when you have a vMA staff back bar which aren't very specific on conditions.

Stamina have Briarheart which procs on crit, Advancing Yokeda which procs on melee (with jewelry retraiting). I may be missing some.

On the Magicka side we have BSW which procs only on flame damage (good for some classes, but Magplar for example won't benefit much) and Scathing Mage which procs on critical and direct damage. I'm happy to use these other sets but it would be great if the conditions and proc chance were revisited.

adriant1978

reprosal wrote: »

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Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Please lower the resource grind to Jewelry crafting . Pretty please with moonsugar on top .

Perfectly happy with the resources needed for golding out jewels. Not everyone should be golded out in every piece.

What about the resources needed for purpling out or even blueing out? These are also 10x higher.

Runefang

Altyrann wrote: »

Acuity being nerfed isn't the end of the world alone, but it does leave Magicka struggling for a really good set where the 5pc bonus works across bars when you have a vMA staff back bar which aren't very specific on conditions.

Stamina have Briarheart which procs on crit, Advancing Yokeda which procs on melee (with jewelry retraiting). I may be missing some.

On the Magicka side we have BSW which procs only on flame damage (good for some classes, but Magplar for example won't benefit much) and Scathing Mage which procs on critical and direct damage. I'm happy to use these other sets but it would be great if the conditions and proc chance were revisited.

Moondancer and Master Architect are both perfectly viable as well. Both have controlled triggers so you can front bar either of them. MA of course is Magplar/Magblade only since it needs a cheap ulti and only if in melee range. MD is the way to go otherwise.

Xuhora

Ankael07 wrote: »

What happened to the famous streamers who were called to the ZoS headquarters (or wherever)? Did they suggest ZoS to recruit 10 more people for councilling on class balance?

Well, the class-rep program is still going. currently there are 30 aspirants left to choose from. At least thats the last statement from Gina, i guess arround a week ago.
At the moment i put very high expectations into this program, as it is something that has to be done right in order to satisfy the costumer in terms of class and balance changes.

I can understand, that maybe the goal was set a little too high by getting out a new chapter and also trying to do class and balancechanges. Since altering certain Skills while others are beeing left out just feels like a half-finished way of doing things. And what clearly is not the right way of doing it is the intransparency of certain decisions.

Lets just all hope that they will dedicate a DLC to balance changes and bugfixes and maybe sacrifice one of the two Dungeons for it. Its really necessary for the sake of a solid ground for upcoming chapters and DLCs. I believe the shared tone across the ESO-Community is the same: Get it Balanced, get the bug Fixed and then focus again on new Content

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

No Siphoning Strikes buff/change? Wow, funny and new...

Altyrann

Runefang wrote: »

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Altyrann wrote: »

Acuity being nerfed isn't the end of the world alone, but it does leave Magicka struggling for a really good set where the 5pc bonus works across bars when you have a vMA staff back bar which aren't very specific on conditions.

Stamina have Briarheart which procs on crit, Advancing Yokeda which procs on melee (with jewelry retraiting). I may be missing some.

On the Magicka side we have BSW which procs only on flame damage (good for some classes, but Magplar for example won't benefit much) and Scathing Mage which procs on critical and direct damage. I'm happy to use these other sets but it would be great if the conditions and proc chance were revisited.

Moondancer and Master Architect are both perfectly viable as well. Both have controlled triggers so you can front bar either of them. MA of course is Magplar/Magblade only since it needs a cheap ulti and only if in melee range. MD is the way to go otherwise.

Indeed. Though with Siroria being so powerful I'm not sure either one will get much of a look in once people get their new set.

It would be nice if there were more non-slayer options.

Aldul

#potioncd fix ?

Septimus_Magna

Runefang wrote: »

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Altyrann wrote: »

Acuity being nerfed isn't the end of the world alone, but it does leave Magicka struggling for a really good set where the 5pc bonus works across bars when you have a vMA staff back bar which aren't very specific on conditions.

Stamina have Briarheart which procs on crit, Advancing Yokeda which procs on melee (with jewelry retraiting). I may be missing some.

On the Magicka side we have BSW which procs only on flame damage (good for some classes, but Magplar for example won't benefit much) and Scathing Mage which procs on critical and direct damage. I'm happy to use these other sets but it would be great if the conditions and proc chance were revisited.

Moondancer and Master Architect are both perfectly viable as well. Both have controlled triggers so you can front bar either of them. MA of course is Magplar/Magblade only since it needs a cheap ulti and only if in melee range. MD is the way to go otherwise.

Moondancer is also not easy to control, you need a synergy and after that you have 50% chance to get the right buff. Generally speaking you want the shadow buff, once you get that you dont use synergies for 30 seconds because you risk loosing the spell dmg buff. This can actually make sustain more difficult if you focus on maximizing dmg output.

If you just activate any synergy and dont pay attention to which buff you get it can give the lunar buff when you dont need it and shadow buff when you need resources. Its decent set but hard to utilize to its full potential.

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

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Joy_Division wrote: »

I think it would be a good idea for ZOS to communicate in plain and meaningful terms exactly what the plan going forward with class balance.

We got changes introduced in this patch there were tested and some red flags occurred during that test phase. In the past, some of the concerns were addressed before the PTS hit Live.

Why are things different this time?

What i could imagine is: ZOS wants to see how the changes affect their "real world" combat.
PTS is and always was very dueling centric.

This doesn´t really reflect real open world/bg encounters and might be why certain issues didn´t get adressed.
People said/say the same things about shieldbreaker they say about sload now. Yet it´s rarely used open world.
Overload potential dmg is virtually unchanged (we´re talking 10% dmg increase on a 20 to 22k hit).
Cage hardcounters squish builds - yet how often do you have time to setup a rotation open world and how many of those builds do you meet in the first place? If we´re being honest there isn´t much difference between trying to run 22k light armor builds on live and getting instagibbed from sneak without being able to defend and being caged on pts in medium 22k hp.

I´m not saying i agree with them. But i can see reasoning why things pvp related (not pve) wouldn´t get adressed due to previous pts testing and feedback.

Yes testing changes for pvp balance on the Pts is centered around duels because OW PvP isn't accessable or there aren't enough players to test it.
However people who play PvP everyday for more than 2 years now on a competitive level somewhat know how changes will work out in the real world.
And if they can say that things will be completely overperfoming it was way better if they don't implement the changes at all rather than risking breaking game balance for 3 months because we won't see any balance changes in between and that's just frustrating.

Yes there are things that work out completely differently in OW than in duels but I'm a physicist if something isn't balanced in an infinitesimal small environment (duels) then it will never be balanced as you can break down everything to this smallest component again.

Ofc there are combinations we find out about later and don't realize their effectiveness on the Pts but if we can already remove the imbalances we find on the Pts then there are less things to change in the next pts cycle to get closer to good balance

hakan

can some one quote the new empower thing? i cant find it.