PTS Patch Notes v4.0.4

Juhasow

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

The developers already said animation cancelling is something they want to support and keep in the game

Like when the developers said in 2014 we'd see spellcrafting soon? See how quickly I can provide an actual example that immediately refutes your point? The game and ideals change, hopefully down the road the ZoS team can give AC another look and do it a little bit better. It could be even more amazing and become the standard for gaming.

Let me know if I need to re-clarify any of my points as this is kind of a convoluted subject (which is part of my point, fwiw)

Developers never said in 2014 that we'll see spellcrafting "soon". They just showed up what projects they're working on but they didnt said anything about release dates for most of them including spellcrafting. Bending reality to Your own needs so it'll match Your theories is silly.

Also there is a difference between shifting and changing the concept that is still not implemented and final decision to implement it.

They could work to fix animation cancelling when it was discovered (that wouldnt be hard at that point) but they decided it looks fun , it's interresting addition for combat and it's worth of keeping it and improving it. The thing is if they wouldnt say it openly noone would even knew it was a bug and people like You would have no arguments.

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Wait wait wait. Did this guy just say that weaving in light attacks between skills is cheating??

in any other game it would be cheating

in ESO its just crap implementation of a great concept

why does ANY skill play any animation after firing?

imagine if I could fire my m4 faster in bf or cod or pubg by cancelling doing an action

its lazy coding by a company being flogged by the overlords at zmi to prioritize microtransactions over gameplay

Would you prefer for every animation having to finish before you can do anything else again? It would be the exact opposite of fast paced combat, and the disparity in animation length for the various class skills would bring even greater class imbalance than now. If you don’t like it don’t use it. It’s that simple.

Id prefer the skills fire at the correct time, so you could still cancel animations, but not to gain an advantage by exploiting the poor implementation. Conceptually its the right idea to allow cancelling, but it really only pushes further elitism in this game between players who can do it well, and everyone else who is used to every other game on the internet.

Yeah lol because in every other game on internet there is no difference between players that click and thinks faster and those who dont. ESO atm to be fair is one of the less demanding games in that matter. It's just casuals who preffer to QQ instead of spending few hours to learn it , makes AC more scary then it actually is.

Dymence

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

No Dev Insight on the Mechanical Acuity nerf?

This is one of those things where uninformed popular opinion is causing devs to react, and in typical fashion, they are reacting badly.

First, I dont really see this set as being that OP. It is just not that far ahead of Julianos or Hundings for most specs, and requires more to manage. That seems a reasonable tradeoff. I know plenty of good DPS that dont bother with it, and the reality is that your average DPS will do better with Hundings/Julianos anyways. Also, it's a crafted set so nobody can cry foul because they cant get it.

Second, what is the point of the nerf? I would assume that it's to slightly lower the effective uptime of the proc. If we accept that the set is over performing, then that's a reasonable way to nerf it. But you didnt do that. You could have easily just added to the coolddown time, but you didnt. You change the damage type. So instead of a blanket nerf to the set accross the board, you actually made the nerf bigger for some of the currently weaker specs like templar, that dont do as much direct damage as some of the stronger classes, say a mageblade, who does quite a lot of direct damage.

TLDR: IMO the nerf was unnecessary, and even if it was, it was handled badly.

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me.

Baz

Juhasow wrote: »

ESO atm to be fair is one of the less demanding games in that matter.

^ This

I'm back to WoW since 1 month, and I think ESO casual whiners should give it a try it would bring them down to earth.
You can't imagine the numbers of refused for Mythic+ dungeons you get bcz your "iLvl is too low" (when it's perfectly fine with the key level) & ppl who want you to link your achievement for killing last boss of the raid in Heroic Mod for a Normal Mod run (translate in ESO : "Link me your vDSA achiev' to join my nDSA run or gtfo")

Gray_Raven

Hello,

I just downloaded the recent PTS update. When it started, The intro scene began, shortly after the requested login screen it took me to the character menu as it should; only the problem is there are nothing but EU characters to select from that I made long ago and have not played in some time. I have played the PTS previously for Summerset and used my NA server characters always as they are more developed and such. I'm not sure what has prompted this but I need to play with my NA server as my characters there has much progression on the new Summerset story. Any help would be much appreciated!

Thank you

Juhasow

ishotamodel wrote: »

Hello,

I just downloaded the recent PTS update. When it started, The intro scene began, shortly after the requested login screen it took me to the character menu as it should; only the problem is there are nothing but EU characters to select from that I made long ago and have not played in some time. I have played the PTS previously for Summerset and used my NA server characters always as they are more developed and such. I'm not sure what has prompted this but I need to play with my NA server as my characters there has much progression on the new Summerset story. Any help would be much appreciated!

Thank you

First 2-3 weeks of PTS there are NA copies on PTS after that for next few weeks there are EU copies. There is no possibility for NA and EU characters to be accesible on PTS at the same time. Right now we have EU copies so if You want maxed character and You dont have any on EU server You need to create new one with "Summerset" option in upper left corner of the screen.

usmcjdking

Runefang wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

I don't think the MA thing is a nerf, btw...

If we can contorl when it procs more, that is going to make DPS tests higher and stuff.

IMO, it's a good thing.

I already controlled the proc, I swapped to my front bar where all my high damage single target abilities were used while my DoTs were active. I applied all my DoTs on my back bar where Acuity couldn't proc.

Now I have a 15% chance on direct damage to activate it. And it might well activate on my last direct damage ability on my front bar...

So the downtime is definitely increased and the chances of it proccing right between swapping to re-apply DoTs is higher. Too big a nerf, now we all move back to other sets.

They needed to change it to 30%-35% chance on direct damage. Maaaybe if you run force pulse it's still viable since its a triple chance. But its not going to be viable for stamina toons.

A completely needless and badly thought out nerf, why not cap it at 80% or 90% crit chance instead of 100% if its over performing.

IDK, I like the nerf. I think it brings some sanity to the set and what it should be used for instead of the PVE catch-all it currently is.

But in its current state it'll under perform compared to Julianos and Hundings, therefore it'll never get used. A nerf is fine since it is the catch-all you described at the moment, but it's too big a nerf. It wasn't like it was out performing Juli/Hundings by a long way anyway.

It will underperform in certain circumstances, most notably single target parses while it should significantly outperform any other set in AOE circumstances wherein the set shines super hard.

The set was simply waaaaaaaaaay too good in AOE and still better than everything else single target. Hundings/Juli should be the benchmark of balance (which they are) and sets that outperform them in virtually every aspect need to be brought in line with them. Hundings/Juli are sets that are good no matter the situation, but always fall just short of best - no set should outperform them as wildly as MA did in every circumstance.

BuddyAces

usmcjdking wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

I don't think the MA thing is a nerf, btw...

If we can contorl when it procs more, that is going to make DPS tests higher and stuff.

IMO, it's a good thing.

I already controlled the proc, I swapped to my front bar where all my high damage single target abilities were used while my DoTs were active. I applied all my DoTs on my back bar where Acuity couldn't proc.

Now I have a 15% chance on direct damage to activate it. And it might well activate on my last direct damage ability on my front bar...

So the downtime is definitely increased and the chances of it proccing right between swapping to re-apply DoTs is higher. Too big a nerf, now we all move back to other sets.

They needed to change it to 30%-35% chance on direct damage. Maaaybe if you run force pulse it's still viable since its a triple chance. But its not going to be viable for stamina toons.

A completely needless and badly thought out nerf, why not cap it at 80% or 90% crit chance instead of 100% if its over performing.

IDK, I like the nerf. I think it brings some sanity to the set and what it should be used for instead of the PVE catch-all it currently is.

But in its current state it'll under perform compared to Julianos and Hundings, therefore it'll never get used. A nerf is fine since it is the catch-all you described at the moment, but it's too big a nerf. It wasn't like it was out performing Juli/Hundings by a long way anyway.

It will underperform in certain circumstances, most notably single target parses while it should significantly outperform any other set in AOE circumstances wherein the set shines super hard.

The set was simply waaaaaaaaaay too good in AOE and still better than everything else single target. Hundings/Juli should be the benchmark of balance (which they are) and sets that outperform them in virtually every aspect need to be brought in line with them. Hundings/Juli are sets that are good no matter the situation, but always fall just short of best - no set should outperform them as wildly as MA did in every circumstance.

Yes, heaven forbid players using something other than the same gear they've had forever.

labambao

Class balance?

UrbanMonk

Dymence wrote: »

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me.

Depends how you define OP. If 2-3% gain on another similar crafted set is called OP then probably you need to redifine your explanation of OP. From the bolded part, I assume that you are looking at the set and int's performance from mSorc perspective, but then that is the beauty for this set, Stam and Mag Alike were able to use this set and get marginally better Results than the counterpart sets.
If some one had a 25k DPS with hunding or Julianos, Acuity didn't magically help them to get 35k DPS by just switching sets. Ofc SKills are a major part of DPS increase.

The variety...you are mistaken. There again will be 1 or 2 setups which will be BiS and Everyone and their Mothers will be using that.

TLDR: set was good before and now in order to push people to buy the new Chapter and the OP sets that are inc with it, ZOS decided to bring in this change as to make people look at other option. ZOS always demands from us to give a logical explanation for the changes we ask for, but at the same time for THIS PARTICULAR CHANGE, they failed to even give a simple comment let alone a logical explanation.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Well, time to scrap my mechanical acuity gear lol

Juhasow

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me.

Depends how you define OP. If 2-3% gain on another similar crafted set is called OP then probably you need to redifine your explanation of OP. From the bolded part, I assume that you are looking at the set and int's performance from mSorc perspective, but then that is the beauty for this set, Stam and Mag Alike were able to use this set and get marginally better Results than the counterpart sets.
If some one had a 25k DPS with hunding or Julianos, Acuity didn't magically help them to get 35k DPS by just switching sets. Ofc SKills are a major part of DPS increase.

The variety...you are mistaken. There again will be 1 or 2 setups which will be BiS and Everyone and their Mothers will be using that.

TLDR: set was good before and now in order to push people to buy the new Chapter and the OP sets that are inc with it, ZOS decided to bring in this change as to make people look at other option. ZOS always demands from us to give a logical explanation for the changes we ask for, but at the same time for THIS PARTICULAR CHANGE, they failed to even give a simple comment let alone a logical explanation.

The reasoning behind that is simple it is just You who tend to not see it.

I see You like to compare Mechanical Acuity to Julianos/Hunding's Rage but there is 1 simple thing You seem to not see in that comparision. Julianos and hunding are loosing a lot of their potential when You use them on weapons while acuity looses almost nothing when at the same time allows other sets to be weared on armor pieces and jewelery and because of that to have higher uptime.

When You have julianos/hunding weapons on front bar only Your uptime of 5th piece bonus drops down to 60-70% from regular 100% if You would have it on armor pieces. When You have acuity on front bar weapons Your uptime drops to 26-29% down from ~30% plus it allows to control proc so You'll very often proc it on front bar after swapping from back bar where You refreshed DoTs which will give additional dmg boost. So as You can see from slight adventage that acuity would have over other sets if You wear both on armor/jewelery pieces You can squeeze much more if You know how. That is adventage of acuity which creates gap between this set and other ones.

This adventage would be even stronger in Summerset where 2h weapons will be counted as 2 pieces so from now on not only stamina but also magicka builds will be able to run 5/5/2 setups on front bar with acuity weapons of any type.

UrbanMonk

Juhasow wrote: »

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me

.

Depends how you define OP. If 2-3% gain on another similar crafted set is called OP then probably you need to redifine your explanation of OP. From the bolded part, I assume that you are looking at the set and int's performance from mSorc perspective, but then that is the beauty for this set, Stam and Mag Alike were able to use this set and get marginally better Results than the counterpart sets.
If some one had a 25k DPS with hunding or Julianos, Acuity didn't magically help them to get 35k DPS by just switching sets. Ofc SKills are a major part of DPS increase.

The variety...you are mistaken. There again will be 1 or 2 setups which will be BiS and Everyone and their Mothers will be using that.

TLDR: set was good before and now in order to push people to buy the new Chapter and the OP sets that are inc with it, ZOS decided to bring in this change as to make people look at other option. ZOS always demands from us to give a logical explanation for the changes we ask for, but at the same time for THIS PARTICULAR CHANGE, they failed to even give a simple comment let alone a logical explanation

.

The reasoning behind that is simple it is just You who tend to not see it.

I see You like to compare Mechanical Acuity to Julianos/Hunding's Rage but there is 1 simple thing You seem to not see in that comparision. Julianos and hunding are loosing a lot of their potential when You use them on weapons while acuity looses almost nothing when at the same time allows other sets to be weared on armor pieces and jewelery and because of that to have higher uptime.

When You have julianos/hunding weapons on front bar only Your uptime of 5th piece bonus drops down to 60-70% from regular 100% if You would have it on armor pieces. When You have acuity on front bar weapons Your uptime drops to 26-29% down from ~30% plus it allows to control proc so You'll very often proc it on front bar after swapping from back bar where You refreshed DoTs which will give additional dmg boost. So as You can see from slight adventage that acuity would have over other sets if You wear both on armor/jewelery pieces You can squeeze much more if You know how. That is adventage of acuity which creates gap between this set and other ones.

This adventage would be even stronger in Summerset where 2h weapons will be counted as 2 pieces so from now on not only stamina but also magicka builds will be able to run 5/5/2 setups on front bar with acuity weapons of any type

.

That's YOUR logic for the change? Because acuity can be used on the front Bar weapons? And Hunding/ Julianos can't be. have you actually ever compared these sets on Live or PTS that when these sets are used as described by you and ACUITY tend to OVERPERFORM compared to others?

If not then please go and do some Tests because I've done so and difference was at best 5%. Not saying that my findings on 1 particular class are the absolute but feel free to do your tests and then post it here.

All bellow numbers are avg of 4 x 6 mil parses- (pre 4.04 patch)

Acuity +Reliquem= 46182
Briahrheart + Reliquem = 44231
Acuity + Briarheart = 41814
Sunder + Acuity = 40260

Reliquem needs to be on always, and then you have 2 sets, which can be carried over to back and tell me if Acuity is OVER PERFORMING. If you'd look closely, it's not Acuity tht's over performing but the other set...I don't see anyone crying for that...Because it's new in town and Everyone and Their Mothers want to use it.

This adventage would be even stronger in Summerset where 2h weapons will be counted as 2 pieces so from now on not only stamina but also magicka builds will be able to run 5/5/2 setups on front bar with acuity weapons of any type.

- Mag builds are already using Acuity weapons on live. They already are running Either 5/5/1 or 5/4/2 The only advantage they are getting from this change is to run a full monster sets rather than just 1 piece.

Jowrik

Juhasow wrote: »

This adventage would be even stronger in Summerset where 2h weapons will be counted as 2 pieces so from now on not only stamina but also magicka builds will be able to run 5/5/2 setups on front bar with acuity weapons of any type.

Double Bow PvE dd always gets forgotten...

Nicko_Lps

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me

.

Depends how you define OP. If 2-3% gain on another similar crafted set is called OP then probably you need to redifine your explanation of OP. From the bolded part, I assume that you are looking at the set and int's performance from mSorc perspective, but then that is the beauty for this set, Stam and Mag Alike were able to use this set and get marginally better Results than the counterpart sets.
If some one had a 25k DPS with hunding or Julianos, Acuity didn't magically help them to get 35k DPS by just switching sets. Ofc SKills are a major part of DPS increase.

The variety...you are mistaken. There again will be 1 or 2 setups which will be BiS and Everyone and their Mothers will be using that.

TLDR: set was good before and now in order to push people to buy the new Chapter and the OP sets that are inc with it, ZOS decided to bring in this change as to make people look at other option. ZOS always demands from us to give a logical explanation for the changes we ask for, but at the same time for THIS PARTICULAR CHANGE, they failed to even give a simple comment let alone a logical explanation

.

The reasoning behind that is simple it is just You who tend to not see it.

I see You like to compare Mechanical Acuity to Julianos/Hunding's Rage but there is 1 simple thing You seem to not see in that comparision. Julianos and hunding are loosing a lot of their potential when You use them on weapons while acuity looses almost nothing when at the same time allows other sets to be weared on armor pieces and jewelery and because of that to have higher uptime.

When You have julianos/hunding weapons on front bar only Your uptime of 5th piece bonus drops down to 60-70% from regular 100% if You would have it on armor pieces. When You have acuity on front bar weapons Your uptime drops to 26-29% down from ~30% plus it allows to control proc so You'll very often proc it on front bar after swapping from back bar where You refreshed DoTs which will give additional dmg boost. So as You can see from slight adventage that acuity would have over other sets if You wear both on armor/jewelery pieces You can squeeze much more if You know how. That is adventage of acuity which creates gap between this set and other ones.

This adventage would be even stronger in Summerset where 2h weapons will be counted as 2 pieces so from now on not only stamina but also magicka builds will be able to run 5/5/2 setups on front bar with acuity weapons of any type

.

That's YOUR logic for the change? Because acuity can be used on the front Bar weapons? And Hunding/ Julianos can't be. have you actually ever compared these sets on Live or PTS that when these sets are used as described by you and ACUITY tend to OVERPERFORM compared to others?

If not then please go and do some Tests because I've done so and difference was at best 5%. Not saying that my findings on 1 particular class are the absolute but feel free to do your tests and then post it here.

All bellow numbers are avg of 4 x 6 mil parses- (pre 4.04 patch)

Acuity +Reliquem= 46182
Briahrheart + Reliquem = 44231
Acuity + Briarheart = 41814
Sunder + Acuity = 40260

Reliquem needs to be on always, and then you have 2 sets, which can be carried over to back and tell me if Acuity is OVER PERFORMING. If you'd look closely, it's not Acuity tht's over performing but the other set...I don't see anyone crying for that...Because it's new in town and Everyone and Their Mothers want to use it.

This adventage would be even stronger in Summerset where 2h weapons will be counted as 2 pieces so from now on not only stamina but also magicka builds will be able to run 5/5/2 setups on front bar with acuity weapons of any type.

- Mag builds are already using Acuity weapons on live. They already are running Either 5/5/1 or 5/4/2 The only advantage they are getting from this change is to run a full monster sets rather than just 1 piece.

Ive seen people saying: I hope Acuity will get nerfed,i hate it i dont wanna use it.(they did it)

There you go,its just some players in this game that they want something nerfed just because they dont want to use it and time their ultis with a proc.

Edit:

Used to be balanced for all classes and for both magica and stamina users.
The changes will make this set very unbalanced,dotting classes like stamDK with not much of direct damage will proc it less while other classes with more direct damage with proc it alot more.

Plus

This nerf increases the chaotic dps difference between magica and stamina dps,as stamina has alot more usefull sets.

Dymence

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me.

Depends how you define OP. If 2-3% gain on another similar crafted set is called OP then probably you need to redifine your explanation of OP. From the bolded part, I assume that you are looking at the set and int's performance from mSorc perspective, but then that is the beauty for this set, Stam and Mag Alike were able to use this set and get marginally better Results than the counterpart sets.
If some one had a 25k DPS with hunding or Julianos, Acuity didn't magically help them to get 35k DPS by just switching sets. Ofc SKills are a major part of DPS increase.

The variety...you are mistaken. There again will be 1 or 2 setups which will be BiS and Everyone and their Mothers will be using that.

TLDR: set was good before and now in order to push people to buy the new Chapter and the OP sets that are inc with it, ZOS decided to bring in this change as to make people look at other option. ZOS always demands from us to give a logical explanation for the changes we ask for, but at the same time for THIS PARTICULAR CHANGE, they failed to even give a simple comment let alone a logical explanation.

It wasn't 2-3% gain over another crafted set. It was more than that. From magsorc perspective, it was pushing dps on dummy from like 39k~ to 44k~. In raid this gets inflated even more, and it was like this for practically any class.

With the changes, everything is a lot more in line with eachother and now it's actually hard to see again what the best in slot is. Sure, there will always be a best in slot for every class and spec, but now it's actually hard to tell what that is. And it might be different sets for different classes. It might even be different sets for different content.

With Acuity it wasn't hard to see at all. You could literally slap it on anything and just get tons of free dps out of it.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Depends how you define OP. If 2-3% gain on another similar crafted set is called OP then probably you need to redifine your explanation of OP.

Lets take this graph at face value and say it's correct, for the sake of argument and making a point:

That "set bonuses" one looks like about 1/6th, or about 17%.

2-3% TOTAL damage increase on a thing that accounts for 17% TOTAL damage means the set is actually ~18% more powerful than whatever set nets you 2-3% less. 18% is a HUGE discrepancy. If it were only 2-3% of the CONTRIBUTED power, I doubt you'd see anyone batting an eye, and you'd also see far less people running it.

The variety...you are mistaken. There again will be 1 or 2 setups which will be BiS and Everyone and their Mothers will be using that.

Only if there is something ahead by as much as MA is now. If everything were within even 10% of the CONTRIBUTED power of each other, I bet you'd see a lot more people running things they want to run because it sounds cool to them.

TLDR: set was good before and now in order to push people to buy the new Chapter and the OP sets that are inc with it, ZOS decided to bring in this change as to make people look at other option. ZOS always demands from us to give a logical explanation for the changes we ask for, but at the same time for THIS PARTICULAR CHANGE, they failed to even give a simple comment let alone a logical explanation.

This I kinda agree. I doubt their motivations are as pure as I hope, and they also don't seem like the kind of people who care about giving themselves nice double standards.

Serjustin19

I'm just glad Werewolves going to be back. All I see is Vampires (myself of course to) but no werewolves in Shor PS4 EU. Hoping this new change be positive light for Werewolves. Also I really miss Werewolf packs to.

TheHsN

curse you zos. cuz you changed mechanical acuity.
who ask you to do that... why u destroy always somethong is good. Pls take it back.....

UrbanMonk

1. Necropotance- Way too much Mag on the 5th piece people cried. ZOS changed it and it's still there on certain setups.
2. TFS- Too much Penetration people cried. - ZOS changed it and the set is gone into oblivion.( except for some niche uses)
3. Scathing Mage- Too much DPS from the set people cried- ZOS sends this one into Oblivion as well.
4. Sunder/ NMG making life easier for stam to reach pencap. Why not, lets *** them up.
5. BSW- too much pwer from this set, yeah lets burn it.
6. And now Acuity- Everyone is uding it. It's craftable. OO. Time ti burn it because we've something even more powerful coming up i.e. Siroria/ Reliquem. We need to sell the Chapter. It's not enough. Lets give free Morrowind with it.

You see where it's going? ZOS logic of changing sets is based on popular opinion rather than logical option. Instead of buffing other sets to bring diversity, all they know is to Nerf the current Meta set.

At this point, frankly i'm tired of defending weather the change to Acuity is justifiable or not but for sure, it's not completely lost and will still have places for certain builds/classes.
I guess I see the point where it brings more options on the table for different classes/ builds but at the same point it's a shame that new sets OP because of $$$ reasons.
I'm sure we;ll have the same discussion about these new sets not too far in future about these new sets being too OP and the wheel will never stop moving.

It's a good thing to have diversity and lets just leave it a that. Acuity is not the 1st in this line and definitely wont be the last.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

No Dev Insight on the Mechanical Acuity nerf?

This is one of those things where uninformed popular opinion is causing devs to react, and in typical fashion, they are reacting badly.

First, I dont really see this set as being that OP. It is just not that far ahead of Julianos or Hundings for most specs, and requires more to manage. That seems a reasonable tradeoff. I know plenty of good DPS that dont bother with it, and the reality is that your average DPS will do better with Hundings/Julianos anyways. Also, it's a crafted set so nobody can cry foul because they cant get it.

Second, what is the point of the nerf? I would assume that it's to slightly lower the effective uptime of the proc. If we accept that the set is over performing, then that's a reasonable way to nerf it. But you didnt do that. You could have easily just added to the coolddown time, but you didnt. You change the damage type. So instead of a blanket nerf to the set accross the board, you actually made the nerf bigger for some of the currently weaker specs like templar, that dont do as much direct damage as some of the stronger classes, say a mageblade, who does quite a lot of direct damage.

TLDR: IMO the nerf was unnecessary, and even if it was, it was handled badly.

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me.

I do think you make some fair points, but my own observations do make me disagree somewhat.

First, I think you are overstating how far out in front MA is as a set. On live, there are many specs that dont use it. I dont run it on my mSorc (and who honestly plays mDK or mTemplar as a DPS in the current patch), and there are many stamina gear combos that are currently necessary that dont allow for everyone to run MA. Again, I am not for one second saying that its not a very powerful set.

Second, managing the set does matter to some degree. I totally agree that most players just equip and forget, but managing the proc and timing ultimates does impact DPS. There is a reason there are addons for this set. The first thing I noticed when I went from Julianos to MA is that the standard deviation between my parses shot up greatly. My highs were definitely higher, but some of the lows actually came in below the julianos parses. On a short fight like a 3 million health dummy, you likely arent trying to time your alt with the proc, and realistically, it comes down to a bit of luck. No secret that when people "farm parses" they pick the ones where everything did in fact line up to brag on the internet. In a trial, I absolutely track where my MA proc is, and will certainly hold off on an ulti for a few seconds to make sure it lines up. A lot of people dont want to bother with that, and a lot of people prefer consistency. Juli/Hundings both have merit for those types of people.

Third, I actually like that we have some sets that can just be on a front bar. It will allow players to equip a 5/5/2 setup and still run a VMA weapon that a lot of us spent months grinding for. From a Trials DPS standpoint, there arent a lot of front bar sets. Most damage sets really do need to be on both bars, and I honestly like the flexibility this was going to create. If anything, this just buffs front bar moondancer/master architect (much harder to get the weapons), which i do think will be a lot more popular next patch.

Lastly, my point still stands. I think the classes that are going to be able to take advantage of this change are not necessarily the classes that really need some help. If a nerf was to happen to this set, and admittedly, we all kinda new it was getting nerfed, I think they should have done it in a way that was more consistent across different specs.

Destruent

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

1. Necropotance- Way too much Mag on the 5th piece people cried. ZOS changed it and it's still there on certain setups.
2. TFS- Too much Penetration people cried. - ZOS changed it and the set is gone into oblivion.( except for some niche uses)
3. Scathing Mage- Too much DPS from the set people cried- ZOS sends this one into Oblivion as well.
4. Sunder/ NMG making life easier for stam to reach pencap. Why not, lets *** them up.
5. BSW- too much pwer from this set, yeah lets burn it.
6. And now Acuity- Everyone is uding it. It's craftable. OO. Time ti burn it because we've something even more powerful coming up i.e. Siroria/ Reliquem. We need to sell the Chapter. It's not enough. Lets give free Morrowind with it.

You see where it's going? ZOS logic of changing sets is based on popular opinion rather than logical option. Instead of buffing other sets to bring diversity, all they know is to Nerf the current Meta set.

At this point, frankly i'm tired of defending weather the change to Acuity is justifiable or not but for sure, it's not completely lost and will still have places for certain builds/classes.
I guess I see the point where it brings more options on the table for different classes/ builds but at the same point it's a shame that new sets OP because of $$$ reasons.
I'm sure we;ll have the same discussion about these new sets not too far in future about these new sets being too OP and the wheel will never stop moving.

It's a good thing to have diversity and lets just leave it a that. Acuity is not the 1st in this line and definitely wont be the last.

Lol...the reason noone used that after the nerf is something different: Stam was strong enough to use 4+ staminas in raids and buff them with NMG/sunder, so you don't need TFS. It may come back with Summerset isles.

Dymence

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

No Dev Insight on the Mechanical Acuity nerf?

This is one of those things where uninformed popular opinion is causing devs to react, and in typical fashion, they are reacting badly.

First, I dont really see this set as being that OP. It is just not that far ahead of Julianos or Hundings for most specs, and requires more to manage. That seems a reasonable tradeoff. I know plenty of good DPS that dont bother with it, and the reality is that your average DPS will do better with Hundings/Julianos anyways. Also, it's a crafted set so nobody can cry foul because they cant get it.

Second, what is the point of the nerf? I would assume that it's to slightly lower the effective uptime of the proc. If we accept that the set is over performing, then that's a reasonable way to nerf it. But you didnt do that. You could have easily just added to the coolddown time, but you didnt. You change the damage type. So instead of a blanket nerf to the set accross the board, you actually made the nerf bigger for some of the currently weaker specs like templar, that dont do as much direct damage as some of the stronger classes, say a mageblade, who does quite a lot of direct damage.

TLDR: IMO the nerf was unnecessary, and even if it was, it was handled badly.

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

And the argument for having to be at a certain skill level to make full use of it and time ults and things like that simply doesn't hold up. You don't need to time anything. You can literally throw all of your ults outside of the Acuity proc window and it will still beat every other possible set out of the ballpark. Or well, that's how it was, before the nerf.

Now with this new nerf, you need to be running a specific kind of setup to make it worth its while. You need to have it on your body, so that the 5 piece is active at all times, and you need to use crushing shock/force pulse. With this, you will still get good value out of it. It's not going to cut it anymore as a frontbar set only. You will see drastic decreases in uptimes, the longer the fights the worse it gets.

So yeah, it went from a clear cut best in slot set for every single class and every single spec, be it stamina or magicka, to a set that only shines on a specific build and perhaps favoring towards specific classes. Other setups are arising again. Variety is returning.

Seems like pretty good balance to me.

I do think you make some fair points, but my own observations do make me disagree somewhat.

First, I think you are overstating how far out in front MA is as a set. On live, there are many specs that dont use it. I dont run it on my mSorc (and who honestly plays mDK or mTemplar as a DPS in the current patch), and there are many stamina gear combos that are currently necessary that dont allow for everyone to run MA. Again, I am not for one second saying that its not a very powerful set.

Second, managing the set does matter to some degree. I totally agree that most players just equip and forget, but managing the proc and timing ultimates does impact DPS. There is a reason there are addons for this set. The first thing I noticed when I went from Julianos to MA is that the standard deviation between my parses shot up greatly. My highs were definitely higher, but some of the lows actually came in below the julianos parses. On a short fight like a 3 million health dummy, you likely arent trying to time your alt with the proc, and realistically, it comes down to a bit of luck. No secret that when people "farm parses" they pick the ones where everything did in fact line up to brag on the internet. In a trial, I absolutely track where my MA proc is, and will certainly hold off on an ulti for a few seconds to make sure it lines up. A lot of people dont want to bother with that, and a lot of people prefer consistency. Juli/Hundings both have merit for those types of people.

Third, I actually like that we have some sets that can just be on a front bar. It will allow players to equip a 5/5/2 setup and still run a VMA weapon that a lot of us spent months grinding for. From a Trials DPS standpoint, there arent a lot of front bar sets. Most damage sets really do need to be on both bars, and I honestly like the flexibility this was going to create. If anything, this just buffs front bar moondancer/master architect (much harder to get the weapons), which i do think will be a lot more popular next patch.

Lastly, my point still stands. I think the classes that are going to be able to take advantage of this change are not necessarily the classes that really need some help. If a nerf was to happen to this set, and admittedly, we all kinda new it was getting nerfed, I think they should have done it in a way that was more consistent across different specs.

I can't say I agree with most of your points here. While it is true that some specs are currently forced to run combos that don't allow for MA (mostly raid buffers), but everyone who can use the set should use it, as it is simply a straight up DPS upgrade. There isn't a single spec that wouldn't benefit from it. And you would be surprised about mDK on live, it is already insanely strong and nearly on par with stamina. It just hasn't caught on for the masses yet, only a few of the top raiders are aware. Next patch will only reinforce that fact with the added sustain.

I also personally haven't seen greater deviation on my parses after I started using Acuity. The lows from Acuity are about the same as the highs with Julianos. Bigger deviations with Acuity would suggest some errors within rotations itself, not necessarily the set. And of course, you could and should really push your parses up by timing your ultimates within the proc windows and using the addons available, but this is not necessary to make Acuity pull more DPS than other setups.

I agree with the fact that it was a good frontbar set that we will probably not be able to run on just frontbar anymore. But there are still other options, like you said Moondancer and Master architect will likely gain in popularity in that regard for frontbar setups. There will probably be other things emerging aswell that can be potential options.

And as far as your last point goes, I think this nerf was the best possible kind of nerf they could have done. If it was nerfed equally for all specs, it would simply become a useless set and be tossed aside for something else. Now it retains some usability for certain specs. And I think that's a good thing, for different specs and classes to use different sets instead of having a staple one size fits all.

usmcjdking

BuddyAces wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

I don't think the MA thing is a nerf, btw...

If we can contorl when it procs more, that is going to make DPS tests higher and stuff.

IMO, it's a good thing.

I already controlled the proc, I swapped to my front bar where all my high damage single target abilities were used while my DoTs were active. I applied all my DoTs on my back bar where Acuity couldn't proc.

Now I have a 15% chance on direct damage to activate it. And it might well activate on my last direct damage ability on my front bar...

So the downtime is definitely increased and the chances of it proccing right between swapping to re-apply DoTs is higher. Too big a nerf, now we all move back to other sets.

They needed to change it to 30%-35% chance on direct damage. Maaaybe if you run force pulse it's still viable since its a triple chance. But its not going to be viable for stamina toons.

A completely needless and badly thought out nerf, why not cap it at 80% or 90% crit chance instead of 100% if its over performing.

IDK, I like the nerf. I think it brings some sanity to the set and what it should be used for instead of the PVE catch-all it currently is.

But in its current state it'll under perform compared to Julianos and Hundings, therefore it'll never get used. A nerf is fine since it is the catch-all you described at the moment, but it's too big a nerf. It wasn't like it was out performing Juli/Hundings by a long way anyway.

It will underperform in certain circumstances, most notably single target parses while it should significantly outperform any other set in AOE circumstances wherein the set shines super hard.

The set was simply waaaaaaaaaay too good in AOE and still better than everything else single target. Hundings/Juli should be the benchmark of balance (which they are) and sets that outperform them in virtually every aspect need to be brought in line with them. Hundings/Juli are sets that are good no matter the situation, but always fall just short of best - no set should outperform them as wildly as MA did in every circumstance.

Yes, heaven forbid players using something other than the same gear they've had forever.

Nothing is stopping you from using Mechanical Acuity other than yourself.

Shadowmaster

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Second, Most casuals will do better with Julianos or Hundings anyway. Mechanical Acuity is more DPS than either for most things, but its not wildly better. It also takes more to manage, which your average player will struggle with. I never recommend acuity to a newbie.

I agree that I dont like the nerf, but your reasoning lacks any logic or ties to reality.

I just want to go on the record and say I 100% agree with these statements in their entirety.

Shadowmaster

Juhasow wrote: »

Yeah lol because in every other game on internet there is no difference between players that click and thinks faster and those who dont. ESO atm to be fair is one of the less demanding games in that matter. It's just casuals who preffer to QQ instead of spending few hours to learn it , makes AC more scary then it actually is.

Serious question, how many other games do you play more than 1 hour a week? 5 hours a week? 10 hours a week? I play a lot of different games across a lot of different platforms/genres/styles. Learning to animation cancel is an annoying 'feature' of ESO that provides far more value than I think it should. You agree with that or you wouldn't even be arguing, right? You literally are so happy with the benefit it gives, you are here defending it in the forums. That makes no sense from a value add standpoint to not apply it to all customers, from a "grow your community" perspective. This is assuming it wouldn't break anything to correctly fix. Like I said, they have a long list of things I know they are working on to make our experience better. Hopefully at some point "fixing Animation Cancelling correctly" gets to the top of that list but I also agree its probably midway down the list at best right now. I truly believe if they did it right it would become the standard for all gaming. I really like the ability to cancel itself, as I have repeatedly said.

Shadowmaster

Dymence wrote: »

I keep seeing these type of posts from various people. The simple fact of the matter is that Mechanical Acuity was an absolute, ironclad best in slot setup for every single class on every single spec, be it stamina or magicka. If that's not overperforming, I don't know what is.

A lot of this is because the meta of high-end content is short burn, then stack/shield/block through phases, which works extremely well with stuff like MA and WM going with Acuity. When you see parses of people hitting 70-80k relentless bows while those procs are up and major bosses are debuffed, its overperforming on a lot of the best content right now, but not all.

WIll be interesting to see this next patch. I say this from the perspective of a player with fully golded stam Acuity and magicka acuity

Merlin13KAGL

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

The developers already said animation cancelling is something they want to support and keep in the game so your argument is irrelevant, I like it because it helps separate players who actually take the time to learn the game from those who dont

They originally tried to change it and then decided it was too difficult. They only embraced it because they're too lazy or incapable of figuring out how to change it properly. That doesn't mean it was intended from the start or that it should work that way. It means it was a really big bug that they just decided to embrace. This picture is a perfect representation

Except that's a spider, not a bug. Count the legs...

You sure you don't work for ZoS?

Merlin13KAGL

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

No Dev Insight on the Mechanical Acuity nerf?

This is one of those things where uninformed popular opinion is causing devs to react, and in typical fashion, they are reacting badly.

First, I dont really see this set as being that OP. It is just not that far ahead of Julianos or Hundings for most specs, and requires more to manage. That seems a reasonable tradeoff. I know plenty of good DPS that dont bother with it, and the reality is that your average DPS will do better with Hundings/Julianos anyways. Also, it's a crafted set so nobody can cry foul because they cant get it.

Second, what is the point of the nerf? I would assume that it's to slightly lower the effective uptime of the proc. If we accept that the set is over performing, then that's a reasonable way to nerf it. But you didnt do that. You could have easily just added to the coolddown time, but you didnt. You change the damage type. So instead of a blanket nerf to the set accross the board, you actually made the nerf bigger for some of the currently weaker specs like templar, that dont do as much direct damage as some of the stronger classes, say a mageblade, who does quite a lot of direct damage.

TLDR: IMO the nerf was unnecessary, and even if it was, it was handled badly.

i think the only stats they look at are how many people crafted and golded out the set.

They do some version of this with every major update. Would be simpler just to log in and have 10% of your mats taken as 'update/balance/nerf' tax.

Gronk

Question might i add. Are we out of beta yet? I ask because doshia too easy needs buff. I like to report bug blinding flashes is gone i cant find it.thank Gronk going to find monkey food now

swirve

labambao wrote: »

Class balance?

Cutie