Jewelry Crafting: Get ready for the worst grind in ESO's history

ezio45

leeux wrote: »

I do think they'll be tweaking and adjusting this as they go... Nobody in his right mind will be investing time in something like this as it is designed... it's madness.

But they like to use this tactic often... start with a ridiculous forced scarcity so early adopters that don't have a life can fill their pockets with gold and take advantage over the rest of the player base and months from now they'll patch it up and ease the access to the system for the masses. That method guarantees exclusivity and "specialness" for the few people that like that kind of stuff for a few months at the expense of the the rest of the game population that would like to use the system too, but have normal lives.

Nobody remembers what was like when IC came out? How difficult was to acquire vr15 mats back then... vr16 gear didn't drop anywhere, the most you could get is vr15 gear and *only* in IC... until Wrothgar came out there wasn't a single material node for vr15 in the game.

The trouble with this tactic they use.. is that you cannot trust them, they're not open about it and they can change anything on a whim... and they're tweaking drop rates for everything all the time.

not een the no lifers will be able to use this system, i did the math and farming is going to take like 10 days of game play for 3 gold jewelry

Kodrac

ezio45 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Do we know how far people have progressed in Jewelry Crafting on the PTS? That will surely give some sort of an answer to how severe the leveling process is, given that Summerset has only been on the PTS for what, three weeks?

333 purple to get to 50 according to some youtuber

So, worse than Enchanting then. Awesome.

ezio45

Ley wrote: »

Oh cool, another one of these threads. Got it, jewelry crafting will require much effort.

How will I survive?!? Oh wait, same way I did before.

It will take time but eventually market will become saturated enough with materials for jewelry crafting and when that time comes, I will simply buy the materials I lack with gold. Until then, I will harvest as usual and make due.

^ you have 0 idea how bad this grind is lol it will take weeks non stop for 3 pcs of gold jewelry

gabriebe

I was excited for this for the implications in the Kyne campaign, but the costs seem prohibitive to even just make a blue ring. Wouldnt be so terrible if the grind was there for gold quality, but blue and green stuff, really?

code65536

efster wrote: »

It sounds mega grindy, but so did the requirement for 100+ pieces for every rank 10 armour piece/weapon. So was getting Lorkhan's Tears when they were exclusive to Craglorn and IC.

And they would've remained mega grindy if ZOS never changed their sourcing. If harvestable nodes were never introduced, and decon/Tel-Var was still the only source of gear (decon 150 pieces of gear to craft a single chest piece, yay!), then I doubt you would still be okay with any of that. And that's the point--ZOS eventually realized that the insanity of the ruby-tier mats was untenable and unhealthy and they added substantially more sources as a result.

Why repeat that mistake? Why not get it right to start with instead of starting with a broken system and adjusting it patches later when they realize that their customers' complaints were right all along?

(Also, Lorkhan's Tears were available only in IC. The waters of Craglorn yielded Star Dew, and the cost of Lorkhan's Tears meant many players--myself included--settled for cheaper VR10 potions using Star Dew instead of VR15 potions.)

Pangnirtung

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

I only skimmed the replies so I am not sure that anyone else feels like I do.

I remember when the game came out of beta and people were complaining about how long it would take to research all blacksmithing, etc. crafts. Some actually did the math and complained about what a grind it would be.

Well, fast forward a few years and it doesn't seem like a grind to me. Sure it takes some time but that makes it more worthwhile.

What would be the point of having an oversupply of everything, make crafting instantaneous and insanely fast? In a short time boredom would set in and crafted jewellery would be in abundance.

I prefer jewellery crafting to take forever. For me it is part of the enjoyment of the game. Is it the destination or the journey that is important?

Ok you, like many others, keeps mentioning the OTHER crafting professions while completely ignoring the fact that mat cost to upgrade anything is TEN TIMES the cost of the other professions. There is no comparasion here, anyone trying to compare jewelry crafting to other crafting professions in this game completely ignored the OP in this thread.

Also, for something like jewelry crafting, which has the "journey" consist of farming materials or sitting and waiting to research traits, I can pretty much speak for many of us when I say Only the destination matters here

Why would the "journey" be enjoyable when i am either spending the entire journey running around from node to node pressing the same button or running vAA over and over and over for gold mats?

None of that is fun or entertaining. It's work, it's menial labor, it's a chore. I would literally have more fun AT MY ACTUAL JOB.

There are some of us that have like real life responsibilities and friends and family that want Jewelry crafting to behave EXACTLY AS ALL THE OTHER PROFESSIONS.

Edit: Y'all realize we are paying real money for this right? We are paying to do menial labor. If i am going to pay money for a feature in a game i expect it to be faster than/or the same speed as other things in the game. This kind of grind should be for a free feature. Not something we are paying for. Everyone defending this is out of their minds. You have truly lost the plot. People keep saying "oh well this used to be thought of as a grind too" without even thinking for two seconds that this grind will be at the very least TEN TIMES the grind of any other crafting grind in the game. People will NEVER be swimming in the mats except the bot-masters. Get real.

Get real? Because we disagree? Get real?

Happily my mission is NOT to convince others to feel exactly the way I do.

Have a happy life.

Apache_Kid

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

I only skimmed the replies so I am not sure that anyone else feels like I do.

I remember when the game came out of beta and people were complaining about how long it would take to research all blacksmithing, etc. crafts. Some actually did the math and complained about what a grind it would be.

Well, fast forward a few years and it doesn't seem like a grind to me. Sure it takes some time but that makes it more worthwhile.

What would be the point of having an oversupply of everything, make crafting instantaneous and insanely fast? In a short time boredom would set in and crafted jewellery would be in abundance.

I prefer jewellery crafting to take forever. For me it is part of the enjoyment of the game. Is it the destination or the journey that is important?

Ok you, like many others, keeps mentioning the OTHER crafting professions while completely ignoring the fact that mat cost to upgrade anything is TEN TIMES the cost of the other professions. There is no comparasion here, anyone trying to compare jewelry crafting to other crafting professions in this game completely ignored the OP in this thread.

Also, for something like jewelry crafting, which has the "journey" consist of farming materials or sitting and waiting to research traits, I can pretty much speak for many of us when I say Only the destination matters here

Why would the "journey" be enjoyable when i am either spending the entire journey running around from node to node pressing the same button or running vAA over and over and over for gold mats?

None of that is fun or entertaining. It's work, it's menial labor, it's a chore. I would literally have more fun AT MY ACTUAL JOB.

There are some of us that have like real life responsibilities and friends and family that want Jewelry crafting to behave EXACTLY AS ALL THE OTHER PROFESSIONS.

Edit: Y'all realize we are paying real money for this right? We are paying to do menial labor. If i am going to pay money for a feature in a game i expect it to be faster than/or the same speed as other things in the game. This kind of grind should be for a free feature. Not something we are paying for. Everyone defending this is out of their minds. You have truly lost the plot. People keep saying "oh well this used to be thought of as a grind too" without even thinking for two seconds that this grind will be at the very least TEN TIMES the grind of any other crafting grind in the game. People will NEVER be swimming in the mats except the bot-masters. Get real.

Get real? Because we disagree? Get real?

Happily my mission is NOT to convince others to feel exactly the way I do.

Have a happy life.

My Edit of my post was a general response to others in the thread as I did not want to double-post one after another.

"Get Real" was to the people who said that "everyone will be swimming in mats soon enough" which if you read any of the math people have down about this system, you would know is patently false.

Yeah we do disagree that farming materials is a fun use of free time. That's fine. The part of my post you are so offended at wasn't directed at you although i can see how you would think that because it was in a quote of you. Sorry.

code65536

Pangnirtung wrote: »

I prefer jewellery crafting to take forever. For me it is part of the enjoyment of the game. Is it the destination or the journey that is important?

It's important to make a distinction between the time dedication for something like trait research. And the time dedication for something like node farming.

For trait research, once you've spent that time, you've spent that time and you're done. Or, if you prefer, there is a destination. Not for material acquisition, though, because once you spend those materials to craft something, you're back at square one again and have to do it again. And again. For as long as you intend to use the craft to create. There is no destination--it's a treadmill.

(Also, trait research doesn't require much active time--once you start the research, you can go and enjoy other parts of the game. Node farming requires actual boots-on-the-ground time. Unless you're a bot.)

To craft a set of GREEN jewelry, you'll need 60 grains. That requires refining an average of 4000 raw mats--20 stacks of raw mats just to upgrade a single 3p jewelry set to GREEN. Each node you harvest yields 3-4 raws. Plus 10% at double yield from that CP passive. So on average, you are getting 3.85 raws per node harvest. You'll need to run around harvesting 1039 nodes. Let's say you can get one node every 10 seconds (which is exceedingly generous and assumes that you have a zone all to yourself with no other players), you'll need to spend nearly 3 hours of non-stop no-breaks node-farming just to craft a single GREEN jewelry set. We're not talking about those bourgeois purples or even blues of the elitists. Just green.

Of course, the reality is that jewelry nodes just do not spawn densely enough to support that exceedingly generous 1 harvest per 10s. And there will be other players around looking to harvest, too. So in reality, you're looking at probably 8+ hours of non-stop no-breaks node harvesting. For a single green jewelry set. Hey, doesn't that sound more like a full-time day job than... a game?

And the best part? When you need another jewelry set, you get to do this all over again. From scratch. Not quite like research investment, now is it?

PS: You need to compare this to dropped jewelry, too. All dropped jewelry are green or higher in quality--white quality dropped jewelry doesn't even exist. Half an hour of dolmens, and you can have a full jewelry set in green or better quality. Why is crafting such a punitive way to acquire jewelry?

jedtb16_ESO

code65536 wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

I prefer jewellery crafting to take forever. For me it is part of the enjoyment of the game. Is it the destination or the journey that is important?

It's important to make a distinction between the time dedication for something like trait research. And the time dedication for something like node farming.

For trait research, once you've spent that time, you've spent that time and you're done. Or, if you prefer, there is a destination. Not for material acquisition, though, because once you spend those materials to craft something, you're back at square one again and have to do it again. And again. For as long as you intend to use the craft to create. There is no destination--it's a treadmill.

(Also, trait research doesn't require much active time--once you start the research, you can go and enjoy other parts of the game. Node farming requires actual boots-on-the-ground time. Unless you're a bot.)

To craft a set of GREEN jewelry, you'll need 60 grains. That requires refining an average of 4000 raw mats--20 stacks of raw mats just to upgrade a single 3p jewelry set to GREEN. Each node you harvest yields 3-4 raws. Plus 10% at double yield from that CP passive. So on average, you are getting 3.85 raws per node harvest. You'll need to run around harvesting 1039 nodes. Let's say you can get one node every 10 seconds (which is exceedingly generous and assumes that you have a zone all to yourself with no other players), you'll need to spend nearly 3 hours of non-stop no-breaks node-farming just to craft a single GREEN jewelry set. We're not talking about those bourgeois purples or even blues of the elitists. Just green.

Of course, the reality is that jewelry nodes just do not spawn densely enough to support that exceedingly generous 1 harvest per 10s. And there will be other players around looking to harvest, too. So in reality, you're looking at probably 8+ hours of non-stop no-breaks node harvesting. For a single green jewelry set. Hey, doesn't that sound more like a full-time day job than... a game?

And the best part? When you need another jewelry set, you get to do this all over again. From scratch. Not quite like research investment, now is it?

PS: You need to compare this to dropped jewelry, too. All dropped jewelry are green or higher in quality--white quality dropped jewelry doesn't even exist. Half an hour of dolmens, and you can have a full jewelry set in green or better quality. Why is crafting such a punitive way to acquire jewelry?

you see punitive, i see challenge.... one that i am looking forward to.

code65536

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

I prefer jewellery crafting to take forever. For me it is part of the enjoyment of the game. Is it the destination or the journey that is important?

It's important to make a distinction between the time dedication for something like trait research. And the time dedication for something like node farming.

For trait research, once you've spent that time, you've spent that time and you're done. Or, if you prefer, there is a destination. Not for material acquisition, though, because once you spend those materials to craft something, you're back at square one again and have to do it again. And again. For as long as you intend to use the craft to create. There is no destination--it's a treadmill.

(Also, trait research doesn't require much active time--once you start the research, you can go and enjoy other parts of the game. Node farming requires actual boots-on-the-ground time. Unless you're a bot.)

To craft a set of GREEN jewelry, you'll need 60 grains. That requires refining an average of 4000 raw mats--20 stacks of raw mats just to upgrade a single 3p jewelry set to GREEN. Each node you harvest yields 3-4 raws. Plus 10% at double yield from that CP passive. So on average, you are getting 3.85 raws per node harvest. You'll need to run around harvesting 1039 nodes. Let's say you can get one node every 10 seconds (which is exceedingly generous and assumes that you have a zone all to yourself with no other players), you'll need to spend nearly 3 hours of non-stop no-breaks node-farming just to craft a single GREEN jewelry set. We're not talking about those bourgeois purples or even blues of the elitists. Just green.

Of course, the reality is that jewelry nodes just do not spawn densely enough to support that exceedingly generous 1 harvest per 10s. And there will be other players around looking to harvest, too. So in reality, you're looking at probably 8+ hours of non-stop no-breaks node harvesting. For a single green jewelry set. Hey, doesn't that sound more like a full-time day job than... a game?

And the best part? When you need another jewelry set, you get to do this all over again. From scratch. Not quite like research investment, now is it?

PS: You need to compare this to dropped jewelry, too. All dropped jewelry are green or higher in quality--white quality dropped jewelry doesn't even exist. Half an hour of dolmens, and you can have a full jewelry set in green or better quality. Why is crafting such a punitive way to acquire jewelry?

you see punitive, i see challenge.... one that i am looking forward to.

vMA is a challenge. PvP is a challenge. If you think that mindlessly running from node to node thousands of times like some sweat-shop slave is a fun challenge... then I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. And I suspect that most people would agree with me.

Apache_Kid

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

I prefer jewellery crafting to take forever. For me it is part of the enjoyment of the game. Is it the destination or the journey that is important?

It's important to make a distinction between the time dedication for something like trait research. And the time dedication for something like node farming.

For trait research, once you've spent that time, you've spent that time and you're done. Or, if you prefer, there is a destination. Not for material acquisition, though, because once you spend those materials to craft something, you're back at square one again and have to do it again. And again. For as long as you intend to use the craft to create. There is no destination--it's a treadmill.

(Also, trait research doesn't require much active time--once you start the research, you can go and enjoy other parts of the game. Node farming requires actual boots-on-the-ground time. Unless you're a bot.)

To craft a set of GREEN jewelry, you'll need 60 grains. That requires refining an average of 4000 raw mats--20 stacks of raw mats just to upgrade a single 3p jewelry set to GREEN. Each node you harvest yields 3-4 raws. Plus 10% at double yield from that CP passive. So on average, you are getting 3.85 raws per node harvest. You'll need to run around harvesting 1039 nodes. Let's say you can get one node every 10 seconds (which is exceedingly generous and assumes that you have a zone all to yourself with no other players), you'll need to spend nearly 3 hours of non-stop no-breaks node-farming just to craft a single GREEN jewelry set. We're not talking about those bourgeois purples or even blues of the elitists. Just green.

Of course, the reality is that jewelry nodes just do not spawn densely enough to support that exceedingly generous 1 harvest per 10s. And there will be other players around looking to harvest, too. So in reality, you're looking at probably 8+ hours of non-stop no-breaks node harvesting. For a single green jewelry set. Hey, doesn't that sound more like a full-time day job than... a game?

And the best part? When you need another jewelry set, you get to do this all over again. From scratch. Not quite like research investment, now is it?

PS: You need to compare this to dropped jewelry, too. All dropped jewelry are green or higher in quality--white quality dropped jewelry doesn't even exist. Half an hour of dolmens, and you can have a full jewelry set in green or better quality. Why is crafting such a punitive way to acquire jewelry?

you see punitive, i see challenge.... one that i am looking forward to.

Hahahahah mindlessly dedicating all of your free-time to harvesting nodes and running vAA for gold decon drops is not a "challenge".

It's insanity

jedtb16_ESO

code65536 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

I prefer jewellery crafting to take forever. For me it is part of the enjoyment of the game. Is it the destination or the journey that is important?

It's important to make a distinction between the time dedication for something like trait research. And the time dedication for something like node farming.

For trait research, once you've spent that time, you've spent that time and you're done. Or, if you prefer, there is a destination. Not for material acquisition, though, because once you spend those materials to craft something, you're back at square one again and have to do it again. And again. For as long as you intend to use the craft to create. There is no destination--it's a treadmill.

(Also, trait research doesn't require much active time--once you start the research, you can go and enjoy other parts of the game. Node farming requires actual boots-on-the-ground time. Unless you're a bot.)

To craft a set of GREEN jewelry, you'll need 60 grains. That requires refining an average of 4000 raw mats--20 stacks of raw mats just to upgrade a single 3p jewelry set to GREEN. Each node you harvest yields 3-4 raws. Plus 10% at double yield from that CP passive. So on average, you are getting 3.85 raws per node harvest. You'll need to run around harvesting 1039 nodes. Let's say you can get one node every 10 seconds (which is exceedingly generous and assumes that you have a zone all to yourself with no other players), you'll need to spend nearly 3 hours of non-stop no-breaks node-farming just to craft a single GREEN jewelry set. We're not talking about those bourgeois purples or even blues of the elitists. Just green.

Of course, the reality is that jewelry nodes just do not spawn densely enough to support that exceedingly generous 1 harvest per 10s. And there will be other players around looking to harvest, too. So in reality, you're looking at probably 8+ hours of non-stop no-breaks node harvesting. For a single green jewelry set. Hey, doesn't that sound more like a full-time day job than... a game?

And the best part? When you need another jewelry set, you get to do this all over again. From scratch. Not quite like research investment, now is it?

PS: You need to compare this to dropped jewelry, too. All dropped jewelry are green or higher in quality--white quality dropped jewelry doesn't even exist. Half an hour of dolmens, and you can have a full jewelry set in green or better quality. Why is crafting such a punitive way to acquire jewelry?

you see punitive, i see challenge.... one that i am looking forward to.

vMA is a challenge. PvP is a challenge. If you think that mindlessly running from node to node thousands of times like some sweat-shop slave is a fun challenge... then I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. And I suspect that most people would agree with me.

there's nothing mindless about it..... it is all deliberate and planned. you list the things that you think are a challenge, i think they are pretty dumb. you think people agree with you? fine, i don't give a damn.... i'll be out farming as soon as it launches.

srfrogg23

code65536 wrote: »

Most players who regularly participate in the PTS or otherwise follow the PTS closely already know what will be in store for them when the Summerset update introduces jewelry crafting, but I suspect that most of the player base are not yet aware of some of the details of the system.

Specifically, the amount of materials needed to upgrade jewelry quality is 10x more than what is needed for the other crafts.

Similar to the other crafts, it takes 2 green plates, 3 blue plates, 4 purple plates, and 8 golden plates to upgrade jewelry if you have maxed the improvement passives. The problem is that whereas you acquire full pieces of upgrade materials for the other crafts, the upgrade materials for jewelry come in the form of grains, which represent 1/10th of a plate. And, most crucially, based on testing that people have done on the PTS, these grains drop at the same rate as the full upgrade materials of the other crafts.

For example, when you deconstruct a purple-quality staff with maxed deconstruction passives, you have a 50% chance of getting a single Mastic from the deconstruction. When you deconstruct a purple-quality ring with the necessary deconstruction passives, you have the same 50% chance of getting a single grain of a purple jewelry upgrade material. Each time you refine raw wood, you have a 7.5% chance to acquire a single Mastic--a full purple upgrade mat. Each time you refine raw jewelry mats, you have the same 7.5% chance to acquire a single grain of a purple jewelry upgrade material.

Effectively, the amount of materials needed to upgrade is 10x more than that of the other crafts, since the upgrade materials are acquired as 1/10th grains from all sources (refinement, deconstruction, and writ rewards; there are no hirelings), at rates that are apparently identical to that of full upgrade mats of other crafts.

What does this mean? It means that to craft a single purple-quality Julianos ring, you will need 20 green grains, 30 blue grains, and 40 purple grains. Purple mats--grains for jewelry and full upgrade mats for the other crafts--drop at a 7.5% rate per refinement. To acquire 40 grains, you will need to refine 533 times; you will need to acquire and refine approximately 5300 raw jewelry mats just to craft a single purple ring.

Let's say purple is too rich for your blood. You just want to craft a simple blue-quality Julianos ring. That's 30 blue grains, which, at a drop rate of 12.5% per refinement, is 240 refinements. You need to acquire and refine 2400 raw jewelry mats to craft a single blue Julianos ring.

What if you're leveling a character, and instead of wearing random dropped jewelry as you do now, you want to craft a matching set of jewelry? Since it's just a character that's being leveled, you're not too picky and will be happy with simple green quality. 20 grains at a 15% drop rate means 133 refinements. You need to acquire and refine 6-7 stacks of raw jewelry mats just to upgrade a single ring to green quality.

Still excited about jewelry crafting?

I have friends who were excited about all the golden jewelry from vet trials that they can decon for mats next patch. Similar to other crafts, with maxed passives, you have only a 50% chance of getting an upgrade mat from decon. Except here, it's just a grain. To acquire the 80 grains needed to upgrade a single purple ring to gold, you'll need an average of 160 gold rings to decon. Think about that for a moment. You need to decon 160 golden jewelry pieces... to upgrade a single jewelry piece. That's 80 runs of vAA HM to get the mats for golding one jewelry piece via decon. I don't know about you, but I'll probably go crazy before the 20th run.

Or, if you're crazy enough to seek golden quality through refinement, you're looking at 1600 refinements: 16K, or 80 full stacks, of raw jewelry mats. For a single jewelry piece.

Oh, and did I mention that there are no hirelings? I did, but let's reiterate that.

How's that excitement for jewelry crafting now?

There is an easy solution, though: increase the drop rate of grains. They currently drop at the same rate as full upgrade mats of other crafts. (50% per decon, 15% green per refinement, 12.5% blue per refinement, 7.5% purple per refinement, and 5% gold per refinement.) If, for example, deconstruction always guaranteed at least 1 grain, with the chance of sometimes getting multiple grains, the drop rate would still be substantially lower than that of the other crafts, but not quite as insane as it currently is on the PTS. As it stands, jewelry crafting isn't fun. It isn't accessible. And I don't see myself seriously using it any time this year.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Sounds like P2W to me!

I’ll be at the torch and pitchfork distribution center. Each costs 10 grains of gold quality jewelrycrafting materials.

josiahva

So this means what? that its more work to upgrade jewelry? So what? You only have 3 pieces of jewelry vs 9 of other equip and the stat difference between purple and gold jewelry is marginal at best....you simply RUN PURPLE JEWELRY TO TEST OUT BUILDS and only upgrade your favorite set pieces....you wont really notice a difference between purple and gold 99.9% of the time. In short: Who cares? Get over it.

Apache_Kid

josiahva wrote: »

So this means what? that its more work to upgrade jewelry? So what? You only have 3 pieces of jewelry vs 9 of other equip and the stat difference between purple and gold jewelry is marginal at best....you simply RUN PURPLE JEWELRY TO TEST OUT BUILDS and only upgrade your favorite set pieces....you wont really notice a difference between purple and gold 99.9% of the time. In short: Who cares? Get over it.

The cost to upgrade to purple is even out of control. You are misinformed. Very few will be able to afford making purple rings and necks to even test out builds

code65536

josiahva wrote: »

you simply RUN PURPLE JEWELRY TO TEST OUT BUILDS

@josiahva You mean "run white" to test out builds, right? Or did you miss the part where, in order to upgrade a set of jewelry to purple, you'll need to gather and refine 16K raw mats? 80 stacks of raw mats. To "test out" a build in purple. Let me know how that works out for ya!

Even greening a set will require harvesting and refining 20 stacks of raw mats. As I've said again and again, the system as it exists currently on the PTS is inappropriate across the entire spectrum. Gold upgrades are a red herring that I frankly don't care about.

BuddyAces

code65536 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

I prefer jewellery crafting to take forever. For me it is part of the enjoyment of the game. Is it the destination or the journey that is important?

It's important to make a distinction between the time dedication for something like trait research. And the time dedication for something like node farming.

For trait research, once you've spent that time, you've spent that time and you're done. Or, if you prefer, there is a destination. Not for material acquisition, though, because once you spend those materials to craft something, you're back at square one again and have to do it again. And again. For as long as you intend to use the craft to create. There is no destination--it's a treadmill.

(Also, trait research doesn't require much active time--once you start the research, you can go and enjoy other parts of the game. Node farming requires actual boots-on-the-ground time. Unless you're a bot.)

To craft a set of GREEN jewelry, you'll need 60 grains. That requires refining an average of 4000 raw mats--20 stacks of raw mats just to upgrade a single 3p jewelry set to GREEN. Each node you harvest yields 3-4 raws. Plus 10% at double yield from that CP passive. So on average, you are getting 3.85 raws per node harvest. You'll need to run around harvesting 1039 nodes. Let's say you can get one node every 10 seconds (which is exceedingly generous and assumes that you have a zone all to yourself with no other players), you'll need to spend nearly 3 hours of non-stop no-breaks node-farming just to craft a single GREEN jewelry set. We're not talking about those bourgeois purples or even blues of the elitists. Just green.

Of course, the reality is that jewelry nodes just do not spawn densely enough to support that exceedingly generous 1 harvest per 10s. And there will be other players around looking to harvest, too. So in reality, you're looking at probably 8+ hours of non-stop no-breaks node harvesting. For a single green jewelry set. Hey, doesn't that sound more like a full-time day job than... a game?

And the best part? When you need another jewelry set, you get to do this all over again. From scratch. Not quite like research investment, now is it?

PS: You need to compare this to dropped jewelry, too. All dropped jewelry are green or higher in quality--white quality dropped jewelry doesn't even exist. Half an hour of dolmens, and you can have a full jewelry set in green or better quality. Why is crafting such a punitive way to acquire jewelry?

you see punitive, i see challenge.... one that i am looking forward to.

vMA is a challenge. PvP is a challenge. If you think that mindlessly running from node to node thousands of times like some sweat-shop slave is a fun challenge... then I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. And I suspect that most people would agree with me.

Most folks do agree with you. Ignore the handful of folks who would be fine if it took three years just to make a green ring.

josiahva

code65536 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

you simply RUN PURPLE JEWELRY TO TEST OUT BUILDS

@josiahva You mean "run white" to test out builds, right? Or did you miss the part where, in order to upgrade a set of jewelry to purple, you'll need to gather and refine 16K raw mats? 80 stacks of raw mats. To "test out" a build in purple. Let me know how that works out for ya!

Even greening a set will require harvesting and refining 20 stacks of raw mats. As I've said again and again, the system as it exists currently on the PTS is inappropriate across the entire spectrum. Gold upgrades are a red herring that I frankly don't care about.

so, tell me what 2 CRAFTED sets you plan on running together. There might be a couple combinations I would like to try out, but all Jewelry crafting means to me for the vast majority of the time is upgrading DROPPED items to gold and changing the trait on them because most of the combinations I would like to try are going to be 1 crafted and 1 dropped set...why would I choose to CRAFT the jewelry when I could just go far the DROPPED set and change the trait? THe only time it becomes a grind is if you simply MUST have 2 crafted sets.

notyuu

4.0.3 update
Still takes an ungodly amount of mats up upgrade stuff

Zos, you guys gonna *** fix this?

Troneon

notyuu wrote: »

4.0.3 update
Still takes an ungodly amount of mats up upgrade stuff

Zos, you guys gonna *** fix this?

Yes they will. Soon as....

redspecter23

josiahva wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

you simply RUN PURPLE JEWELRY TO TEST OUT BUILDS

@josiahva You mean "run white" to test out builds, right? Or did you miss the part where, in order to upgrade a set of jewelry to purple, you'll need to gather and refine 16K raw mats? 80 stacks of raw mats. To "test out" a build in purple. Let me know how that works out for ya!

Even greening a set will require harvesting and refining 20 stacks of raw mats. As I've said again and again, the system as it exists currently on the PTS is inappropriate across the entire spectrum. Gold upgrades are a red herring that I frankly don't care about.

so, tell me what 2 CRAFTED sets you plan on running together. There might be a couple combinations I would like to try out, but all Jewelry crafting means to me for the vast majority of the time is upgrading DROPPED items to gold and changing the trait on them because most of the combinations I would like to try are going to be 1 crafted and 1 dropped set...why would I choose to CRAFT the jewelry when I could just go far the DROPPED set and change the trait? THe only time it becomes a grind is if you simply MUST have 2 crafted sets.

What you describe is exactly the problem. People simply won't craft jewelry unless there is no other way to make the sets work, basically 2 crafted sets used together. The question is, should that be the case? Should the material cost be so high that the profession is ignored unless it's absolutely necessary and there is no other way to make the set combinations work? The message we're getting from ZOS right now is that is true. Master writs? A complete write off. Making jewelry for leveling up? Only if you do it white quality.

josiahva

redspecter23 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

you simply RUN PURPLE JEWELRY TO TEST OUT BUILDS

@josiahva You mean "run white" to test out builds, right? Or did you miss the part where, in order to upgrade a set of jewelry to purple, you'll need to gather and refine 16K raw mats? 80 stacks of raw mats. To "test out" a build in purple. Let me know how that works out for ya!

Even greening a set will require harvesting and refining 20 stacks of raw mats. As I've said again and again, the system as it exists currently on the PTS is inappropriate across the entire spectrum. Gold upgrades are a red herring that I frankly don't care about.

so, tell me what 2 CRAFTED sets you plan on running together. There might be a couple combinations I would like to try out, but all Jewelry crafting means to me for the vast majority of the time is upgrading DROPPED items to gold and changing the trait on them because most of the combinations I would like to try are going to be 1 crafted and 1 dropped set...why would I choose to CRAFT the jewelry when I could just go far the DROPPED set and change the trait? THe only time it becomes a grind is if you simply MUST have 2 crafted sets.

What you describe is exactly the problem. People simply won't craft jewelry unless there is no other way to make the sets work, basically 2 crafted sets used together. The question is, should that be the case? Should the material cost be so high that the profession is ignored unless it's absolutely necessary and there is no other way to make the set combinations work? The message we're getting from ZOS right now is that is true. Master writs? A complete write off. Making jewelry for leveling up? Only if you do it white quality.

Fair enough. I think they were trying to make it equivalent to getting gold jewelry from the golden vendor in Cyrodiil...I had to wait over a year for the pieces I was looking for to be cycled through...getting gold jewelry this way would certainly be quicker than that.

Ohtimbar

Apache_Kid wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

I prefer jewellery crafting to take forever. For me it is part of the enjoyment of the game. Is it the destination or the journey that is important?

It's important to make a distinction between the time dedication for something like trait research. And the time dedication for something like node farming.

For trait research, once you've spent that time, you've spent that time and you're done. Or, if you prefer, there is a destination. Not for material acquisition, though, because once you spend those materials to craft something, you're back at square one again and have to do it again. And again. For as long as you intend to use the craft to create. There is no destination--it's a treadmill.

(Also, trait research doesn't require much active time--once you start the research, you can go and enjoy other parts of the game. Node farming requires actual boots-on-the-ground time. Unless you're a bot.)

To craft a set of GREEN jewelry, you'll need 60 grains. That requires refining an average of 4000 raw mats--20 stacks of raw mats just to upgrade a single 3p jewelry set to GREEN. Each node you harvest yields 3-4 raws. Plus 10% at double yield from that CP passive. So on average, you are getting 3.85 raws per node harvest. You'll need to run around harvesting 1039 nodes. Let's say you can get one node every 10 seconds (which is exceedingly generous and assumes that you have a zone all to yourself with no other players), you'll need to spend nearly 3 hours of non-stop no-breaks node-farming just to craft a single GREEN jewelry set. We're not talking about those bourgeois purples or even blues of the elitists. Just green.

Of course, the reality is that jewelry nodes just do not spawn densely enough to support that exceedingly generous 1 harvest per 10s. And there will be other players around looking to harvest, too. So in reality, you're looking at probably 8+ hours of non-stop no-breaks node harvesting. For a single green jewelry set. Hey, doesn't that sound more like a full-time day job than... a game?

And the best part? When you need another jewelry set, you get to do this all over again. From scratch. Not quite like research investment, now is it?

PS: You need to compare this to dropped jewelry, too. All dropped jewelry are green or higher in quality--white quality dropped jewelry doesn't even exist. Half an hour of dolmens, and you can have a full jewelry set in green or better quality. Why is crafting such a punitive way to acquire jewelry?

you see punitive, i see challenge.... one that i am looking forward to.

Hahahahah mindlessly dedicating all of your free-time to harvesting nodes and running vAA for gold decon drops is not a "challenge".

It's insanity

I think it is a challenge. It would challenge my will to live.

Minno

every day that Greenman Gaming sale is looking pretty sweet right about now lol

Hell, I might just wait a year when the markets are overflowing with mats and SI will be free of charge to do jewelcrafting. They might even make it ALOT easier by then, and I wont miss out on anything special.

AndyMac

Jewellery crafting looks far too grindy to me.

I think ZOS has had a very strong idea with this new craft system - something that could really add to the possible builds and crafting skills - it has the potential to be a really positive addition to the game.

But they risk throwing that away on terrible execution.

ZOS DOES make mistakes - the grindiness here looks like one of them.

Hopefully what we see on live will be more like the current crafting systems in terms of a time sink.

efster

code65536 wrote: »

Why repeat that mistake? Why not get it right to start with instead of starting with a broken system and adjusting it patches later when they realize that their customers' complaints were right all along?

(Also, Lorkhan's Tears were available only in IC. The waters of Craglorn yielded Star Dew, and the cost of Lorkhan's Tears meant many players--myself included--settled for cheaper VR10 potions using Star Dew instead of VR15 potions.)

Oh yeah, you're right -- Star Dew was the thing people in Craglorn were fighting over. I just put my alts in IC sewer bases and logged in and out a few times to farm the potion bottles, kegs, and backpacks there, had a stockpile of Tears within a week.

I'm not sure that it's a mistake they're repeating rather than a strategy they're following. Why they're doing it is anyone's guess -- my guess is it's at attempt to keep a level playing field at the start. As a material-rich player with maxed crafts on 15 alts, my perspective of the jewelrycrafting grind is very different from that of a brand-new player who hasn't got a single mat stack to their name and is tier 1 in all professions -- maybe the grind being so bad at the start is so that the "have-nots" now can catch up at least a little to the "haves" before the mats are made more widely available.

Anyway, my point is that this still isn't the worst grind in the game's history. Dust has that market cornered. Perfect Roe, too, come to think of it. It's gonna suck for a while but then it'll be fine.

code65536

efster wrote: »

I'm not sure that it's a mistake they're repeating rather than a strategy they're following. Why they're doing it is anyone's guess -- my guess is it's at attempt to keep a level playing field at the start. As a material-rich player with maxed crafts on 15 alts, my perspective of the jewelrycrafting grind is very different from that of a brand-new player who hasn't got a single mat stack to their name and is tier 1 in all professions -- maybe the grind being so bad at the start is so that the "have-nots" now can catch up at least a little to the "haves" before the mats are made more widely available.

I think it's more likely to widen the gap, TBH. To narrow the gap, the grind needs to be worse for the long-term player, but it's not. Plus, the long-term player has advantages. They can farm normal writs (which are not insane like the master writs) on 15 characters to get surveys for raws and grains. They also have easier access to materials from decon because they have more content that is accessible and can kill trash faster.

And then there's the most hardcore players--those who in this thread proclaim to look forward to putting the time into the grind.

efster wrote: »

Anyway, my point is that this still isn't the worst grind in the game's history. Dust has that market cornered.

But what do you need Dust for? You're at CP cap and all your characters are leveled. I've never found a use for the Dust that I collected--I just gaze upon it in my bag and say, "I have some". Jewelry crafting, however, opens up builds and affects combat. It's something that holds much greater relevance for the typical player than Dust.

efster wrote: »

Perfect Roe, too, come to think of it.

Dude, you have Master Angler.

efster wrote: »

It's gonna suck for a while but then it'll be fine.

It'll be like the VR15/16 mats--it'll be fine, yes, but only after ZOS changes the sourcing. Whether that happens before the end of PTS or in some distant future update, I am convinced that is what it will take for it to be fine.

Wing

still no comment from ZOS in any of the threads concerning this issue.

I'm actually surprised they didn't move this thread to some obscure sub forum to keep the views down (as they do with other issue threads)

radiostar

I couldn't get JC out of single digits on PTS (think I was 6 or 7 level after raiding a templates gold jewels for decon) this last testing cycle for my crafter. I could make the white level rings for a low-trait craft set IF I had the mats. I'm going to try to see how far along I can get on the current 2 week testing period. At least this time you start with a template that can raise JC to 50 right away. It will just be finding enough mats and having the traits.

Traits aren't that hard, but finding enough mats/tempers is. If I can make myself blue rings for the crafted sets my tank, healer and dps use for the dungeons, I guess I'll be alright. Providing I can get enough traits in queue. I want to be able to use EOM jewels for my littlest healer, we'll see how Grind City it goes.

Sievertsv

lol i preordered specifically for jewelery upgrades not knowing the grinding needed to actually craft/upgrade jewelry... thanks for the info but feelsbadman