WW LA (Normalized) ... WW Feedback Thread

Qbiken

dsalter wrote: »

tbh i'd be fine with werewolves having weaker LA direct hits if the bleed was faster, always felt werewolf was about pressure

The bleed already is faster than other bleeds, since it can 2x tick everytime you do a new light attack.

I´m no expert at coding, but this issue doesn´t seems to difficult to fix (hopefully)

Avran_Sylt

Qbiken wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

tbh i'd be fine with werewolves having weaker LA direct hits if the bleed was faster, always felt werewolf was about pressure

The bleed already is faster than other bleeds, since it can 2x tick everytime you do a new light attack.

I´m no expert at coding, but this issue doesn´t seems to difficult to fix (hopefully)

It can only x2 tick if you space your next LA about 2s after the first one. Shortening the tick to 1s will only exacerbate the issue, and retooling the bleed to occur after the first 1/2s have passed (like twin blade and blunt bleed), will cause Light Attack spam to never proc the bleed effect.

NyassaV

Aznox wrote: »

Don't loose your time @Qbiken , she has been opening one "Nerf Stamina !" thread per day for the past week.
Not worth anything but an ignore list.

If you actually read them, it's more about magicka not being able to manage stamina

NyassaV

Aliyavana wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

The attacks are powerful enough, I'm happy with this change

So you're happy with classes and skills being bugged and mechanics not working as intended?

I wouldn't care for her comments, after many biased threads and comments against stamina

If you actually read them, it's more about magicka not being able to manage stamina

Avran_Sylt

NyassaV wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

The attacks are powerful enough, I'm happy with this change

So you're happy with classes and skills being bugged and mechanics not working as intended?

I wouldn't care for her comments, after many biased threads and comments against stamina

If you actually read them, it's more about magicka not being able to manage stamina

@NyassaV

Well hot damn, I can't wait for StamNB magicka management to get buffed so they can sit nicely in cloak for as long as MagNB.

If your concern is quite literally only with regards to break free however, I can see your point.

NyassaV

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

The attacks are powerful enough, I'm happy with this change

So you're happy with classes and skills being bugged and mechanics not working as intended?

I wouldn't care for her comments, after many biased threads and comments against stamina

If you actually read them, it's more about magicka not being able to manage stamina

@NyassaV

Well hot damn, I can't wait for StamNB magicka management to get buffed so they can sit nicely in cloak for as long as MagNB.

If your concern is quite literally only with regards to break free however, I can see your point.

Yeah that is pretty much it. I build to have stamina sustain for both block and a roll or two and even when I don't block or roll I still sometimes have issues. I wear 3 well-fitted and 4 impen due to this and still run into trouble. In no CP it's so much worse for magicka when it comes to not being chain CCed into oblivion!

Kanar

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

The attacks are powerful enough, I'm happy with this change

So you're happy with classes and skills being bugged and mechanics not working as intended?

I wouldn't care for her comments, after many biased threads and comments against stamina

If you actually read them, it's more about magicka not being able to manage stamina

@NyassaV

Well hot damn, I can't wait for StamNB magicka management to get buffed so they can sit nicely in cloak for as long as MagNB.

If your concern is quite literally only with regards to break free however, I can see your point.

Sometimes (always) it's better to swallow your pride and not reply, instead of feeding the trolls. You're not doing anyone a favor by derailing a thread. If you just ignore, then her impact to the thread is minimal.

Same thing happened in my thread about 2h LA nerf. Better to not create pages of back-and-forth off topic posts.

NyassaV

Kanar wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

The attacks are powerful enough, I'm happy with this change

So you're happy with classes and skills being bugged and mechanics not working as intended?

I wouldn't care for her comments, after many biased threads and comments against stamina

If you actually read them, it's more about magicka not being able to manage stamina

@NyassaV

Well hot damn, I can't wait for StamNB magicka management to get buffed so they can sit nicely in cloak for as long as MagNB.

If your concern is quite literally only with regards to break free however, I can see your point.

Sometimes (always) it's better to swallow your pride and not reply, instead of feeding the trolls. You're not doing anyone a favor by derailing a thread. If you just ignore, then her impact to the thread is minimal.

Same thing happened in my thread about 2h LA nerf. Better to not create pages of back-and-forth off topic posts.

2H light attack thread gave me a good laugh TBH. Complaining about wanting more for using less. DW is more 2H is less, that's how it is, build around it, and make fun choices. That's part of the concept of balance.

WW light attacks already to a lot of damage if the person is properly built. So again this change is fine with me however there should be some compensating factors. WWs are amazingly powerful until they run into a StamWarden or anyone using Dongbreaker (Not everyone uses dongbreaker) after which they are stopped in their tracks

Avran_Sylt

@Kanar

Past the first response, I agree. I generally don't assume anyone is a troll intentionally, at first.

Sometimes a slight derailing can promote further (constructive) discussion elsewhere.

A long continuation of said discussion is of course better suited to another thread.

Avran_Sylt

@NyassaV

They do quite a lot of damage, and that's what I find unique about WW builds. You either build tanky and try to burn your opponent down with the bleeds, or you go berserker mode and try to crush your opponent down in a few seconds.

As you note the glass cannon WWs get curbstomped against any tanky healer build, or anyone who can kite them.

Their stamina regen is abysmal unless the sets you use compensate for it, and their attacks scale so significantly with WD that this in turn causes the WW to rely more on their bleed (since it acts as 'oblivion' damage), than their raw damage if they go the hard regen route.

The reason I don't like this LA nerf is that all it will do is cause glass cannon players (myself included) to focus more into building and stacking bleed damage, which I still think is rather idiotic in that it bypasses all resistances. Great for killing tanks, terrible for killing anyone with a damage shield.

Of course, take this with a grain of salt, I'm not that experienced with WW.

Skoomah

Why does ZOS go out of their way to nerf everything that I find fun to do in this game? Class, skills, passives, sets, play styles.

If the light attack damage in werewolf is indeed broken, ZOS has got to fix this. Or I'm just going to quit the game.

Please, just restore werewolf light attack to where it is now on live if you can't figure out how to make it be in line with the new changes. At this point, just leave werewolves alone. I'll take their pros and cons the way they are.

And for the people calling for nerfs, just learn to immobilize, snare, out dps, heal debuff. There are plenty of counters to werewolves. Don't need the piling on because you refuse to L2P.

dodgehopper_ESO

If this is true I doubt WW will get used anymore. WW light attacks are bread and butter. Meanwhile Vampire continues to be cancer in this game.

Aztlan

This. ^^

Wuuffyy

Oh my gosh. Please fix this, bug or not. That or you have just effectively destroyed Werewolf another minority skill line in one single patch note.

Wuuffyy

@ZOS_GinaBruno, that's what this whole point of WW is: the LA. Don't apply the reduced damage to werewolf, they weren't overperforming, the whole line is already underperforming.

Wuuffyy

And still the claws and morphs are dodgeable, unchained CP-passive doesn't work, still have 6 morphs that are useless and used by no-one (including pack leader which doesn't even work), bugged heavy attack return values, a devour that literally restores 3k health for a 5 second channel, no access to reviving/synergies/weapon passives.

Wuuffyy

I have several videos showcasing the bugs existing with werewolf also. But you need to fix that Zenimax. I know I wanted the scaling but if that's what it does, a more than 50% reduction to the bulk of damage that comes from werewolf, you need to revert this change, all of them, NOW!!!
AOE Dodgeables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spr3qqfk3S4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-JOT9h04zc

Ability Mechanic Failures:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEuqYy9-uoU

Koolio

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

I have several videos showcasing the bugs existing with werewolf also. But you need to fix that Zenimax. I know I wanted the scaling but if that's what it does, a more than 50% reduction to the bulk of damage that comes from werewolf, you need to revert this change, all of them, NOW!!!
AOE Dodgeables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spr3qqfk3S4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-JOT9h04zc

Ability Mechanic Failures:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEuqYy9-uoU

Sad days for WW right now. Which makes me want to post this because it is relevant to theses issues

https://youtu.be/WMi4g_e08Eo

Wuuffyy

Yea between this and the other things wrong with werewolf, bugs in the game, and severe balance issues, I'm out. I'm tired of having to fight for things they know they should fix. This is what, after everyone else I knew and liked left, will make ME quit.

Osubaker33

Idk what to even think anymore

What is the point of this balance roller coaster ZoS likes to employ.

Sorc Power, then with morrowwind comes the rise of Stam, now Stam is nerfed and Magica is buffed massively. Why do we have to keep ping ponging around like this?

I guess the one constant is WW, they never get fixed or updated.

Skoomah

ZOS, you gotta fix this.

NyassaV

Osubaker33 wrote: »

Idk what to even think anymore

What is the point of this balance roller coaster ZoS likes to employ.

Sorc Power, then with morrowwind comes the rise of Stam, now Stam is nerfed and Magica is buffed massively. Why do we have to keep ping ponging around like this?

I guess the one constant is WW, they never get fixed or updated.

It was stamina then magicka and we are now currently back to stamina. But yeah pretty much

Skoomah

Werewolf is the last game mode that brings me joy in this game, given that my main class Stam DK is pretty trash in human form. ZOS, you gotta fix this.

Wuuffyy

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

A mostly Min/Maxed WW on Live:

vs. PTS:

The bleed stays about the same.

Assuming this is working as intended, how will this impact your builds, for those of you that use WW.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@RoyJade
I'm fairly certain they overwrote the additional Weapon Damage Scaling that WW Light Attacks had.

RoyJade wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I'm fairly certain they overwrote the additional Weapon Damage Scaling that WW Light Attacks had.

So, after some test I can confirm that. On a totally naked character (no cp, equipment, passives and only enough attribute outside of WW form to match the 0 attribute stamina of the WW form (10345 stamina in WW, tried 10289 and 10400 stam outside of WW), the damage of the light attack are exactly the same.
When I used a single handed gold weapon with no enchant 1335 (weapon damage in and out WW), the result were coherent with this conclusion.

For the actual numbers(non crit-crit) :

Bare fist

Humain, 10289 (10400) stamina :
Light : 295-443 (299-448)
Heavy : 459-689 (464-697)

Werewolf, 10345 stamina :
Light : 297-445
Heavy : 475-712 + 237-356 cleave damage

One handed

Humain, 10289 (10400) stamina :
Light : 697-1046 (701-1051)
Heavy : 1085-1628 (1090-1636)

Werewolf, 10345 stamina :
Light : 699-1048
Heavy : 1108-1678 + 559-838 cleave damage

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Oh my gosh. Please fix this, bug or not. That or you have just effectively destroyed Werewolf another minority skill line in one single patch note.

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, that's what this whole point of WW is: the LA. Don't apply the reduced damage to werewolf, they weren't overperforming, the whole line is already underperforming.

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

And still the claws and morphs are dodgeable, unchained CP-passive doesn't work, still have 6 morphs that are useless and used by no-one (including pack leader which doesn't even work), bugged heavy attack return values, a devour that literally restores 3k health for a 5 second channel, no access to reviving/synergies/weapon passives.

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

I have several videos showcasing the bugs existing with werewolf also. But you need to fix that Zenimax. I know I wanted the scaling but if that's what it does, a more than 50% reduction to the bulk of damage that comes from werewolf, you need to revert this change, all of them, NOW!!!
AOE Dodgeables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spr3qqfk3S4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-JOT9h04zc

Ability Mechanic Failures:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEuqYy9-uoU

Please!

usmcjdking

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Requesting information as to whether nerfing WW was what was intended with 4.02

Skoomah

Confirmed. Werewolf light attack damage is lower on PTS vs. Live Servers.

PTS: 4170 average light attack dmg
Live: 5789 average light attack dmg

That's a 28% drop in damage!

This drop in damage makes werewolves not worth playing anymore. We already deal with a bunch of other buggy mechanics.

ZOS, you got to fix this. This is unacceptable if it goes to live. We demand you fix this broken coding now because it will just be forgotten otherwise. You asked the people who attended the Summit to ask us to provide you with feedback during the PTS. Please fix this now!

I can't stand how things keep getting broken and not fixed patch to patch.

Osubaker33

ZoS please fix this, the LAST thing WW needs is a nerf to LA from Live to PTS, especially when all other classes are doing more damage with LA on PTS than live.

Koolio

Crickets

Ladislao

Skoomah wrote: »

This drop in damage makes werewolves not worth playing anymore

Despite the fact that this is a critical bug, it sounds strange to me. Do you play ww only for the sake of light/heavy attacks?

Bashev

ZoS balancing doesn't work like this. They dont balance the game globally, they divide it to several samples and then balance these samples. This is absolutely wrong.

We had weapons balancing, we had class skills balancing, we had fighters skills balancing, we had race balancing, we had light and heavy attacks balancing, we had item sets balancing and so on.

ZOS never balance all aspect of the game at the same time.

So next year Vamp and WW balance changes. Please be patient