Mountains, mountains and... more mountains. Vvardenfell vol. 2.

thedude33

Agree, one of my biggest pet peeves with the game. Having to navigate an obstacle course at times to get where you want to go ...only one way in.

cyclonus11

Oh gods an expansion with dolmens?

Marabornwingrion

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Oh gods an expansion with dolmens?

Guys, dolmens and geysers are sharing the same icon map, but it's not exactly the same thing... I've already said it few times

Seraphayel

Astrid_V wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Oh gods an expansion with dolmens?

Guys, dolmens and geysers are sharing the same icon map, but it's not exactly the same thing... I've already said it few times

What's the difference? Cultists doing weird things to summon them, distinct ritual places, waves of mobs and a boss at the end. Sounds very much like every dolmen in game. Sure the colors changed from blue to purple but that's barely a novelty.

Jarryzzt

I think I sort of understand the whole mountains thing from a developer perspective.

Think about it. Imagine you have to set up a map where you want X locations of various types, and you would like for there to be certain distances and travel times between them. If the map is absolutely flat, and the entirety of it is accessible, you have to make a very large map indeed.

On the other hand, you put in some vertical levels and all of a sudden you can cram locations in "next to each other" because the combination of level differential, impassable terrain and other such nonsense will nevertheless keep the distances between specific points of interest - distances here meaning travel times - where you want them to be. But the overall map is a lot smaller! Easier to make, easier to load, easier to maintain...

...at least in theory. Clearly clipping errors are not high priority at all.

But my point is, going vertical creates the illusion of space on a smaller map, if that's an adequate way of putting it. Now, as a player it may occasionally annoy the living hell out of me, but who cares, right?

asuitandtyb14_ESO

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Lexynide wrote: »

This entire endeavor of an "expansion" is practically a scam on the ZOS part.

They had all the money earned from Morrowind expansion, they had all the money earned from Crown Store and ESO+ subscription.

We were given a promise of "new Vvardenfell". And the best they could give us is another Auridon.
And to make things even worse - it's not even that great. All we got is one fancy human-looking city that isn't even that great. We haven't got anything breathtaking as it was described in the lore. And they dare to make up excuses like "Tamriel is pretty mundane at it's core".

Yet 'mundane' things like Ashlander tribes in TES3: Morrowind felt unique and this feels like the most generic low-effort fantasy land ever possible.

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Man. ESO has a lot to learn when it comes to adding new zones. The first DLC for GW2 was about the same price but about 5 times this size. We need more dlc's like Orsinium, that one was awesome!

Meanwhile even WoW has a new city that's probably half the size of Summerset from what I've seen of it so far. Packed with diverse, wacky quests (not just "go here, kill this"), expansive worldbuilding, new models for monsters, tons of npcs giving just for immersion's sake.

I was chasing around tiny dinosaurs who were stealing from shop-keepers, only to come across the god of scavengers who turned me into a tiny dinosaur so I'd understand what it's like to be a scavenger and give me a taste of my own medicine.

And this is just one city within one zone, within one of two new continents.

How much are they charging for this?

Yea, it's a bit underwhelming. GW2 added a new zone about 5 times this size, a new class, gliders, new story line and quests, new items, and 3 new skill trees for every class. It's a bit saddening how fast the dlc quality went down since Orsinium.

It's not just GW2, it's all the competitors in the MMO category. LOTRO added 5 zones in Mordor last year, and North Mirkwood, Dale and Erebor this year. WoW is doing their usual thing with a new expansion and accompanying large land mass expansion. I just don't understand how the higher ups at zenimax think they're going to stay relevant with these poor expansion releases.

Marabornwingrion

Guys, I've found something interesting...

Appartently they also intentionally changed shape of the whole island on Tamriel map:

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Astrid_V wrote: »

Guys, I've found something interesting...

Appartently they also intentionally changed shape of the whole island on Tamriel map:

Looks like they put Bummerset on a diet and slimmed it down a bit. All the better to make the island a bit smaller since they cant fill it with content.

Seraphayel

Well they just gave Summerset a wasp waist. Isn't that lovely?

Elsonso

Faulgor wrote: »

What baffles me is: What is ZOS actually working on?

We already "lost" one content DLC this year and got a dungeon DLC instead (plus presumably another one in Q3), and just assumed that working on the new chapter (Summerset) cost ZOS more development time. But instead, Summerset is even thinner than last year's Morrowind, with less land area, assets and world detail put into it - as much as I love the redacted. Which they obviously recognize themselves by pricing it 25% cheaper.

So, are they working on something bigger that costs them too much resources?
Do they even have anyone still working on new content?
Or are they just dedicated to the Crown Store now?

I've been wondering that for over a year now as delivered content seems smaller than the size of the studio. I probably would not have noticed were it not for the shortcuts they take in order to reduce development costs. Stuff like locked doors, not wanting to pay someone to put jewelry nodes across Tamriel, etc.

red_emu

Funniest thing is... half the locations on Summerset will not be available till release of DLCs

Nothing beats Clockwork City in that regard though!

joaaocaampos

The truth is they didn't say that Summerset (alone) was larger than Vvardenfell. But, yes, Summerset + Artaeum.

What I would like to see from next year:

• DLC: 1 zone
• Chapter: 2 zones

red_emu

joaaocaampos wrote: »

The truth is they didn't say that Summerset (alone) was larger than Vvardenfell. But, yes, Summerset + Artaeum.

What I would like to see from next year:

• DLC: 1 zone
• Chapter: 2 zones

What ZOS sees:

What I would like to see from next year:

• DLC: 1 Dungeon
• Chapter: quarter of a zone with big mountains
  

lygerseye

Astrid_V wrote: »

Guys, I've found something interesting...

Appartently they also intentionally changed shape of the whole island on Tamriel map:

Sadly, I see them explaining this away by stating that lore-wise, no outsiders have been allowed in Summerset, so no one had an accurate map of the zone... Now that the queen has opened it to outsiders, there is a “more accurate” map.

BuddyAces

Faulgor wrote: »

What baffles me is: What is ZOS actually working on?

We already "lost" one content DLC this year and got a dungeon DLC instead (plus presumably another one in Q3), and just assumed that working on the new chapter (Summerset) cost ZOS more development time. But instead, Summerset is even thinner than last year's Morrowind, with less land area, assets and world detail put into it - as much as I love the redacted. Which they obviously recognize themselves by pricing it 25% cheaper.

So, are they working on something bigger that costs them too much resources?
Do they even have anyone still working on new content?
Or are they just dedicated to the Crown Store now?

Needs to be said again so I'm quoting it.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Faulgor wrote: »

What baffles me is: What is ZOS actually working on?

We already "lost" one content DLC this year and got a dungeon DLC instead (plus presumably another one in Q3), and just assumed that working on the new chapter (Summerset) cost ZOS more development time. But instead, Summerset is even thinner than last year's Morrowind, with less land area, assets and world detail put into it - as much as I love the redacted. Which they obviously recognize themselves by pricing it 25% cheaper.

So, are they working on something bigger that costs them too much resources?
Do they even have anyone still working on new content?
Or are they just dedicated to the Crown Store now?

I have a nasty suspicion that most of the money is going to investors and will never touch the budget for ESO or any other game.

Elsonso

lygerseye wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Guys, I've found something interesting...

Appartently they also intentionally changed shape of the whole island on Tamriel map:

Sadly, I see them explaining this away by stating that lore-wise, no outsiders have been allowed in Summerset, so no one had an accurate map of the zone... Now that the queen has opened it to outsiders, there is a “more accurate” map.

That is a perfectly valid situation, too.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

What baffles me is: What is ZOS actually working on?

We already "lost" one content DLC this year and got a dungeon DLC instead (plus presumably another one in Q3), and just assumed that working on the new chapter (Summerset) cost ZOS more development time. But instead, Summerset is even thinner than last year's Morrowind, with less land area, assets and world detail put into it - as much as I love the redacted. Which they obviously recognize themselves by pricing it 25% cheaper.

So, are they working on something bigger that costs them too much resources?
Do they even have anyone still working on new content?
Or are they just dedicated to the Crown Store now?

I have a nasty suspicion that most of the money is going to investors and will never touch the budget for ESO or any other game.

"Unannounced projects".

lygerseye

lordrichter wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Guys, I've found something interesting...

Appartently they also intentionally changed shape of the whole island on Tamriel map:

Sadly, I see them explaining this away by stating that lore-wise, no outsiders have been allowed in Summerset, so no one had an accurate map of the zone... Now that the queen has opened it to outsiders, there is a “more accurate” map.

That is a perfectly valid situation, too.

“Turns out Summerset is a lot bigger than we thought.” is also a valid situation... Just much less likely.

Kiralyn2000

I find it interesting that "they updated the originally-vague world map artwork to match the actual game landmass" is being lumped in with "OMG they screwed us over!"

Seems a bit of a stretch.

Shardan4968

lygerseye wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Guys, I've found something interesting...

Appartently they also intentionally changed shape of the whole island on Tamriel map:

Sadly, I see them explaining this away by stating that lore-wise, no outsiders have been allowed in Summerset, so no one had an accurate map of the zone... Now that the queen has opened it to outsiders, there is a “more accurate” map.

I wonder how will they explain why in third era people are using false map again.. propably Dragon Break

I don't know what I expected. Couldn't they just place two roads and maybe delves through north and south mountains for the sake of exploration? I only hope that maybe storyline is interesting and trial is hard. Whole hype is already gone thanks to unpaid beta testers. "Biggest PvE zone" what a story!

grizzledcroc

I will say the mq is probably the best storyline in the game.

psychotrip

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I find it interesting that "they updated the originally-vague world map artwork to match the actual game landmass" is being lumped in with "OMG they screwed us over!"

Seems a bit of a stretch.

I don't think if the map was the same size people would be complaining. Don't be obtuse. You know this isn't just about the shape.

Fact is, they told us one thing (Summerset would be the biggest landmass released)

And by all accounts so far, they gave us something else.

Whether you personally care about size, environmental diversity, playable space, content quantity etc. is irrelevant. It's a matter of honesty.

Seraphayel

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I find it interesting that "they updated the originally-vague world map artwork to match the actual game landmass" is being lumped in with "OMG they screwed us over!"

Seems a bit of a stretch.

Not really. Most Summerset advertising has already been proven (partially) false. It's neither the biggest zone nor is it bigger than Vvardenfell. And it hasn't got more content than the usual faction zone. There's not much left for Summerset, it's already a massive let down for cheap $30.

DemonDruaga

Craglorn was the best dlc, since then it went down hill. Just getting the chapters and dlcs for the extra goodies, the zones are pretty mehh alltogether.
Endless daily grinder, thats what this game has for pve

Korah_Eaglecry

People are getting entirely too caught up on the mountains. Yes it sucks that we have these invisible walls, older ES games allowed us to go anywhere and I would love some more freedom here. But I would rather they had added exploreable areas between those mountains. Im just fine with having some terrain features like mountains but I do wish they hadnt scrunched the island the way they did.

Mayrael

Cryptical wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

If you thought Vvardenfell was just Orsinium with volcano on top, look at Summerset map.



I spent quite a lot of time and explored as much as I could on my mount and feet. These areas are not accessible, they are just mountains blocking everything.
I'm sick of it, everytime ZOS is too lazy to put more content in DLCs / Chapters, they just put bunch of mountains so the map looks less empty.

I don't care if these mountains are for immersion, more beautiful views or whatever.
I prefer Summerset to be completely flat like a damn desert, BUT at least filled with quests and other activities in these areas.

The norther bit, there’s the underdark passage under those mountains.

Aaaaaaaaaaand THAT is inspiration for some future dlc. All those inmates of the banished cells had to come from somewhere. They crossed some dangerous lines, and the magic perps like Rilis had to have some place to do their thing in secret.

Make some ubderdark complexes under those mountains.

We want Moria!

asuitandtyb14_ESO

Mayrael wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

If you thought Vvardenfell was just Orsinium with volcano on top, look at Summerset map.



I spent quite a lot of time and explored as much as I could on my mount and feet. These areas are not accessible, they are just mountains blocking everything.
I'm sick of it, everytime ZOS is too lazy to put more content in DLCs / Chapters, they just put bunch of mountains so the map looks less empty.

I don't care if these mountains are for immersion, more beautiful views or whatever.
I prefer Summerset to be completely flat like a damn desert, BUT at least filled with quests and other activities in these areas.

The norther bit, there’s the underdark passage under those mountains.

Aaaaaaaaaaand THAT is inspiration for some future dlc. All those inmates of the banished cells had to come from somewhere. They crossed some dangerous lines, and the magic perps like Rilis had to have some place to do their thing in secret.

Make some ubderdark complexes under those mountains.

We want Moria!

Have you played LOTRO? Take my word for it, you don't. I love that game, but Moria...

Seraphayel

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

If you thought Vvardenfell was just Orsinium with volcano on top, look at Summerset map.



I spent quite a lot of time and explored as much as I could on my mount and feet. These areas are not accessible, they are just mountains blocking everything.
I'm sick of it, everytime ZOS is too lazy to put more content in DLCs / Chapters, they just put bunch of mountains so the map looks less empty.

I don't care if these mountains are for immersion, more beautiful views or whatever.
I prefer Summerset to be completely flat like a damn desert, BUT at least filled with quests and other activities in these areas.

The norther bit, there’s the underdark passage under those mountains.

Aaaaaaaaaaand THAT is inspiration for some future dlc. All those inmates of the banished cells had to come from somewhere. They crossed some dangerous lines, and the magic perps like Rilis had to have some place to do their thing in secret.

Make some ubderdark complexes under those mountains.

We want Moria!

Have you played LOTRO? Take my word for it, you don't. I love that game, but Moria...

Moria is regarded as one of the biggest achievements when it comes to game design in Lotro so...

GabiAlex

red_emu wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

The truth is they didn't say that Summerset (alone) was larger than Vvardenfell. But, yes, Summerset + Artaeum.

What I would like to see from next year:

• DLC: 1 zone
• Chapter: 2 zones

What ZOS sees:

What I would like to see from next year:

• DLC: 1 Dungeon
• Chapter: a quarter of a zone with big mountains
  

Just wait for the rest of Skyrim to be added. At least I hope that each hold will be launched separately similar in size with Eastmarch and Rift instead of launching them all together and slightly bigger than the vanilla holds combined and the Throat of the World's peak inaccessible.

Elsonso

GabiAlex wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

The truth is they didn't say that Summerset (alone) was larger than Vvardenfell. But, yes, Summerset + Artaeum.

What I would like to see from next year:

• DLC: 1 zone
• Chapter: 2 zones

What ZOS sees:

What I would like to see from next year:

• DLC: 1 Dungeon
• Chapter: a quarter of a zone with big mountains
  

Just wait for the rest of Skyrim to be added. At least I hope that each hold will be launched separately similar in size with Eastmarch and Rift instead of launching them all together and slightly bigger than the vanilla holds combined and the Throat of the World's peak inaccessible.

It will be a long time before they do the rest of Skyrim. By that time, the entire ESO development team will be Rich Lambert, an artist/animator, a part time writer, and whatever warm bodies they can grab from the other part of the studio when no one is watching. Rich will have to wear a T-Shirt that says "Yes, I still work for ZOS" so that building security doesn't toss him out.

Anyway... I expect it to be a while. Maybe not exactly like that, but a while.