Pyandonean (Maormer) Motif!

aaisoaho

I agree that it is a shame that we have now a crown crate exclusive motif in pages.

I think a better way to make crate opening exciting is to use pity timers on the crate opening and use them per crate set. What I mean is: if a player havent opened an epic reward in 7 boxes, he gets a guaranteed epic drop on the next crate, if a player haven't opened a legendary reward in 15 boxes, he'll get a legendary drop in 16th crate, etc. And to make it even more exciting, they should add a "you'll get guaranteed legendary or better reward in the first 5 crates of the season".

That way, the crates still have their RNG aspect but you'd feel much better opening them. Right now, the free boxes have been mostly "meh, another blue + junk crate"-experience.

uzbachchi

I'm on a fixed income and can't afford to spend tons of money on crates for gems. This is really unfair. I've worked really hard on getting all styles in game and now some are going behind a paywall. I'm seriously disappointed in this decision. I'm tired of being penalized for being disabled and broke in my form of escape.

DuskMarine

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all,

As with all systems, we read your feedback on Crown Crates and are always looking for more ways to make them a rewarding experience. One of the pieces of feedback on Crown Crates we heard was that the blue-tier items didn’t feel as rewarding as our players would like. For as long as Crown Crates have been active, you have been guaranteed at least one blue-quality card or better in every Crown Crate, so these items are some of the most common Crown Crate items.

To address this feedback, starting with the Psijic Vault Crown Crates, we looked to improve the blue-quality Crown Crate rewards by adding an exclusive Motif – the Pyandonean Motif – to that tier. The goal was to add a bit more excitement to receiving a blue-tier item from a crate. However, we also wanted players to feel like there was more than one way to get this Motif, so we made sure that you will be able to purchase the Motif pages with Crown Gems. That way, if you don’t get it inside a crate, you’re not prevented from acquiring it all together. The Motif pages are also account-bound items not collectibles, which means that you can convert every one you get into Crown Gems if you want. It’s also worth noting that all players have the opportunity to receive free Crown Crates during special events, as well as through the future Daily Rewards system.

Watch for full details regarding the Motif pages and how you can obtain them in our upcoming Psijic Vault Crown Crate article.

itd be nice if yall made the stuff in the crown crates actually obtainable in the game themselves without crown crate interaction. its not really fair to those of us who dont have the money to constantly throw at them.

SilverIce58

Smaxx wrote: »

I still blame Blizzard and Overwatch for bringing RNG loot boxes in full paid games to the masses and get them „accepted“…

Except, everything you can get from Overwatch's loot boxes you can also buy with their in-game money. You can buy hundreds of crates, or you can buy the currency. Either way, Blizzard gives you the chance during their events for you to earn/buy any cosmetic you want. It'd completely different than what's going on here in that you can't earn anything from ESO crown crates.

Turelus

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Smaxx wrote: »

I still blame Blizzard and Overwatch for bringing RNG loot boxes in full paid games to the masses and get them „accepted“…

Except, everything you can get from Overwatch's loot boxes you can also buy with their in-game money. You can buy hundreds of crates, or you can buy the currency. Either way, Blizzard gives you the chance during their events for you to earn/buy any cosmetic you want. It'd completely different than what's going on here in that you can't earn anything from ESO crown crates.

It's different but it's still manipulative and exploitive especially the "limited" holiday crates which can't be ground enough to get all items before they're removed.

Overwatch fans are very protective of criticism of their game and seem very unwilling to admit the business model is not designed in their best interest.
I bet ZOS marketing wishes it could achieve the same here.

Smaxx

It's a bit off-topic, but you can't buy credits directly, at least I don't remember this possibility (outside China?). You can get those League tokens, but those are only for the league skins stuff or so.

Avran_Sylt

Thinking more about it, I still stand by my suggestion that each crates gem conversion cost should equal that of a superior, given that a superior is guaranteed with each crate. (I'm expanding this to a Unique superior is guaranteed with each crate, so long as you don't have all superiors unlocked).

However, while I suggested that all items should be able to be purchased based on their worst case crate scenario, I realize that's idiocy. Then people would just buy crates, and get more items for the same amount of money.

Instead, they should be able to be purchased individually, but the price should be between that of its worst crate scenario, and a single crown crate. What number that is for each tier, I don't know.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Ah, my God. I knew a Maomer Style was too good to be true. Of course it had to be hidden behind the infamous crown crates =\

Maulkin

Turelus wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Smaxx wrote: »

I still blame Blizzard and Overwatch for bringing RNG loot boxes in full paid games to the masses and get them „accepted“…

Except, everything you can get from Overwatch's loot boxes you can also buy with their in-game money. You can buy hundreds of crates, or you can buy the currency. Either way, Blizzard gives you the chance during their events for you to earn/buy any cosmetic you want. It'd completely different than what's going on here in that you can't earn anything from ESO crown crates.

It's different but it's still manipulative and exploitive especially the "limited" holiday crates which can't be ground enough to get all items before they're removed.

Overwatch fans are very protective of criticism of their game and seem very unwilling to admit the business model is not designed in their best interest.
I bet ZOS marketing wishes it could achieve the same here.

The way Overwatch works is quite clever and different and frankly...better. If you want to get all costumes available during an event, you'll have to either no-life the game during the event or buy crates.

However, costumes are class specific and most people main 3, 4...maybe 5 classes. During an event, only about 1 in 3 classes gets a new skin (and Tracer ) which is about 9 new skins. So for your average person, that averages to 2 skins per event. And most people can afford that quite easily without having to dip into crates. Obviously if you're a completionist and want all ~9 skins, you'll have to pay dearly for that.

ESO is different because every style or costume is available for every class. By putting a particular style exclusively behind crates it means whoever wants that particular style, has to pay dearly. That's quite different. A closer approach would be saying "here's 4 new styles with Summerset, you can get 2 of your choice through gaming but the rest you'll have to pay/gamble for".

Overwatch is leaning more towards the latter. And by giving its players a choice, they don't feel scammed. Also by giving access to every in-game reward simply by playing (you get crates as reward for levelling up) players don't feel items are locked up behind a paywall. You can in theory get every costume in-game just by playing if you're either a no-lifer or the luckiest person alive. Whereas in ESO certain stuff is behind crates which are only purchaseable, since you don't get crates as reward for playing.

If you got Crown Crates as reward for certain in-game milestones, then people would not be complaining.

SilverIce58

Maulkin wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Smaxx wrote: »

I still blame Blizzard and Overwatch for bringing RNG loot boxes in full paid games to the masses and get them „accepted“…

Except, everything you can get from Overwatch's loot boxes you can also buy with their in-game money. You can buy hundreds of crates, or you can buy the currency. Either way, Blizzard gives you the chance during their events for you to earn/buy any cosmetic you want. It'd completely different than what's going on here in that you can't earn anything from ESO crown crates.

It's different but it's still manipulative and exploitive especially the "limited" holiday crates which can't be ground enough to get all items before they're removed.

Overwatch fans are very protective of criticism of their game and seem very unwilling to admit the business model is not designed in their best interest.
I bet ZOS marketing wishes it could achieve the same here.

The way Overwatch works is quite clever and different and frankly...better. If you want to get all costumes available during an event, you'll have to either no-life the game during the event or buy crates.

However, costumes are class specific and most people main 3, 4...maybe 5 classes. During an event, only about 1 in 3 classes gets a new skin (and Tracer ) which is about 9 new skins. So for your average person, that averages to 2 skins per event. And most people can afford that quite easily without having to dip into crates. Obviously if you're a completionist and want all ~9 skins, you'll have to pay dearly for that.

ESO is different because every style or costume is available for every class. By putting a particular style exclusively behind crates it means whoever wants that particular style, has to pay dearly. That's quite different. A closer approach would be saying "here's 4 new styles with Summerset, you can get 2 of your choice through gaming but the rest you'll have to pay/gamble for".

Overwatch is leaning more towards the latter. And by giving its players a choice, they don't feel scammed. Also by giving access to every in-game reward simply by playing (you get crates as reward for levelling up) players don't feel items are locked up behind a paywall. You can in theory get every costume in-game just by playing if you're either a no-lifer or the luckiest person alive. Whereas in ESO certain stuff is behind crates which are only purchaseable, since you don't get crates as reward for playing.

If you got Crown Crates as reward for certain in-game milestones, then people would not be complaining.

Also the way loot boxes work now in Overwatch makes it so you'll always get something new, unless you have all items of a certain item tier. And then just duplicates still give you credits, which even then you can use to obtain the stuff you actually want, like highlight intros, skins, victory poses.

I'm not saying that loot boxes in any game are good, but Overwatch at least gives you the opportunity to obtain the boxes without having to pay a single cent. I mean, per week in the arcade you can get 3 by winning 9 matches, and that's not counting when you level up.

Moloch1514

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Since motif books in crates cost 200 gems in a category normally costing 100, are we sure these chapters will only cost 16 gems like other blue items? Past precedents would suggest these will cost 20-30, still cheaper than purple but higher than other blue items.


After getting 7 Worm Cult Axes and 0 of others I needed, I know this idea will result in me getting Pyandonean Maces 5 times in a crown crate pack.

MopeyHat

Really? I guess because the "blue tier isn't cool enough" opinion had more buying power "please stop putting exclusives in crates, it really sucks for everyone else". Lame. At least might make a few gems from the daily rewards...

anitajoneb17_ESO

DuskMarine wrote: »

itd be nice if yall made the stuff in the crown crates actually obtainable in the game themselves without crown crate interaction. its not really fair to those of us who dont have the money to constantly throw at them.

Actually it's not very fair either to expect them to design and provide new stuff for free. People deserve salaries.

Smaxx

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Actually it's not very fair either to expect them to design and provide new stuff for free. People deserve salaries.

Do you have a salary? How does it work? Does your boss pay you monthly and you may or may not deliver what he actually wants? Does he pay you until he has what he wants?

Think you get me?

Merenwen_812

OK I am not overly against crown exclusive motifs. I got frostcaster expensive when it first came out. Got Grim just this past year for discounted price of what it cost the first year it came out. Don't like the cost, but eh I wanted it so got it. That being said, I AM against individual chapters going into crates to leave up to RNG. If duplicates would not be allowed would be one thing, but RMG states you will get 30 belts before you get the chest staves or swords. This is a VERY bad idea whoever had it.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Smaxx wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Actually it's not very fair either to expect them to design and provide new stuff for free. People deserve salaries.

Do you have a salary? How does it work? Does your boss pay you monthly and you may or may not deliver what he actually wants? Does he pay you until he has what he wants?

Think you get me?

My boss needs paying customers to pay my salary. He's entitled to tell me to produce blue stuff and not red stuff. He gets to decide the price at which he sells the stuff I make.
You and I are not ZOS bosses. We're ZOS customers. We may tell them what we like or dislike in their offers, but we don't get to tell them what to do, let alone demand free stuff.
Besides, even my boss cannot require me to work extra hours for free whenever he runs out of cash. That's not how it works.
Think you get me ?

heaven13

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itd be nice if yall made the stuff in the crown crates actually obtainable in the game themselves without crown crate interaction. its not really fair to those of us who dont have the money to constantly throw at them.

Actually it's not very fair either to expect them to design and provide new stuff for free. People deserve salaries.

I don't think anyone is expecting everything for free. Paying for DLC, sure. Paying for chapters, okay. Having content available in the store for direct purchase, works (though I think we'd all appreciate have an in-game method of acquiring as well). Having the option to purchase a sub, good deal. Crown crates are where a lot of us draw the line.

This is not a f2p game and we shouldn't be monetized like it is one.

anitajoneb17_ESO

heaven13 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itd be nice if yall made the stuff in the crown crates actually obtainable in the game themselves without crown crate interaction. its not really fair to those of us who dont have the money to constantly throw at them.

Actually it's not very fair either to expect them to design and provide new stuff for free. People deserve salaries.

I don't think anyone is expecting everything for free.

That's what @DuskMarine asked for. That all crown stuff should be obtainable ingame (aka "free") because some people just can't afford them. Hence my answer.

heaven13 wrote: »

(though I think we'd all appreciate have an in-game method of acquiring as well)

Well, that would make it *free* ...

heaven13 wrote: »

This is not a f2p game and we shouldn't be monetized like it is one.

Without subbing, it's very close to F2P. One can play for *years* without paying anything extra to the base game.
I understand that it needs to be monetized as an *online* game.

mesmerizedish

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itd be nice if yall made the stuff in the crown crates actually obtainable in the game themselves without crown crate interaction. its not really fair to those of us who dont have the money to constantly throw at them.

Actually it's not very fair either to expect them to design and provide new stuff for free. People deserve salaries.

I don't think anyone is expecting everything for free.

That's what @heaven13 asked for. That all crown stuff should be obtainable ingame (aka "free") because some people just can't afford them. Hence my answer.

Obtainable in-game is not free. We still have to pay for the game. We still have to pay for the content, either directly (in the case of Chapters) or by subbing/crowns (in the case of DLC).

What is (probably ) true is that crown store items and add-ons have separate budgets, and in that case it does make sense that they would be sold separately. We have no idea what kind of profits ZOS are looking at for the add-ons themselves. I feel like they ought to be making enough money that they do have the ability to budget for some collectibles within the add-ons, but it's also possible the add-ons are loss leaders and they're only really making money from the crown store items.

anitajoneb17_ESO

heaven13 wrote: »

Obtainable in-game is not free. We still have to pay for the game. We still have to pay for the content, either directly (in the case of Chapters) or by subbing/crowns (in the case of DLC).

Sure but we already get plenty of those (costumes, mementos, collectibles and fun stuff) for playing the game. It's not like *everything* goes to the crown store.
Only somewhat missing item ingame is, perhaps, mounts.

Smaxx

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

My boss needs paying customers to pay my salary. He's entitled to tell me to produce blue stuff and not red stuff. He gets to decide the price at which he sells the stuff I make.

No, you didn't understand what I tried to say. The whole concept of trading is based on relatively fixed exchange rates. No matter whether you trade money, work force, etc. there's typically some agreed on conversion rate. For example, if you work for an hour, you'll earn 25 bucks. You don't wait for your boss to pay you and then you randomly decide whether you work or not or whether he'll get what he wants. That won't work and it won't be acceptable for any company. Yet video game companies expect customers to do exactly the same: Pay an unknown amount of money to potentially get what you actually want to buy.

From what I've got, the suggested solution for the last few pages was a simple approach:

• Either allow players to buy the items at a fixed price from the shop (i.e. classic Crown Store items)
• Or allow the players to gamble for the items using loot boxes, but at the same time add a way for the players to get what they want for free.

In the end this second approach adds a potential gamble and challenge to both sides. The player might have to invest a significant amount of time or skill to obtain something specific, while the publisher has to ensure the loot box mechanic is attractive and fair enough to get people to buy them rather than blatantly forcing them in a classic "sink or swim" approach, if they want the items.

anitajoneb17_ESO

@Smaxx : that makes more sense.
I totally agree with the part where the RNG-based system is dishonest and unfair. No working cooperation works like that and no commercial relationship should work like that either.
I don't see however how putting the crate stuff into the game (obviously with loooong grinds attached) would compensate for that.

There's also a big difference between the two situations : companies NEED people to work (else they'd have nothing to sell) , whereas you can play the game from A to Z without ever touching anything from the crown store. You're free not to buy.

dodgehopper_ESO

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I'm normally forgiving of anything they put in the crown store/crates. But putting a motif exclusively, piece by piece, in crates is a *** move.

It also means they're testing the waters or planning to do the same with other future motifs. Boil the frog slow. I'm not jumping for joy about it either. Then again I'm starting to look for land to build my log cabin, so maybe I'll have a new hobby soon.

Turelus

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itd be nice if yall made the stuff in the crown crates actually obtainable in the game themselves without crown crate interaction. its not really fair to those of us who dont have the money to constantly throw at them.

Actually it's not very fair either to expect them to design and provide new stuff for free. People deserve salaries.

I don't mind paying for things, I purchased both the Crown Exclusive motifs so far, my issues is with them trying to extract more money from me than it's worth.
I'm happy to help pay their salaries but not with the entirety of mine.

Merenwen_812

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all,

As with all systems, we read your feedback on Crown Crates and are always looking for more ways to make them a rewarding experience. One of the pieces of feedback on Crown Crates we heard was that the blue-tier items didn’t feel as rewarding as our players would like. For as long as Crown Crates have been active, you have been guaranteed at least one blue-quality card or better in every Crown Crate, so these items are some of the most common Crown Crate items.

To address this feedback, starting with the Psijic Vault Crown Crates, we looked to improve the blue-quality Crown Crate rewards by adding an exclusive Motif – the Pyandonean Motif – to that tier. The goal was to add a bit more excitement to receiving a blue-tier item from a crate. However, we also wanted players to feel like there was more than one way to get this Motif, so we made sure that you will be able to purchase the Motif pages with Crown Gems. That way, if you don’t get it inside a crate, you’re not prevented from acquiring it all together. The Motif pages are also account-bound items not collectibles, which means that you can convert every one you get into Crown Gems if you want. It’s also worth noting that all players have the opportunity to receive free Crown Crates during special events, as well as through the future Daily Rewards system.

Watch for full details regarding the Motif pages and how you can obtain them in our upcoming Psijic Vault Crown Crate article.

Still trying to read through this thread but this is at least something. I have 200 or more gems from free crates/conversions.
Has there been anything on the gem cost of said page/book?

Turelus wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To address this feedback, starting with the Psijic Vault Crown Crates, we looked to improve the blue-quality Crown Crate rewards by adding an exclusive Motif – the Pyandonean Motif – to that tier.

So this just caught my eye rereading it.

Starting with. So does this mean a mew motif in crates every season?

o.O I didn't even think of that, good question

efster

This is a monumentally tone-deaf implementation of a decent idea ("we want the blue rewards to feel more fun in response to player feedback").

If you want the blue crate drops to feel better for players, give them a chance to drop special untradable gold tempers that you can use alongside regular gold tempers (like there are already crown soul gems and gold-purchasable soul gems). That's useful, has no effect on the ingame economy, and it would be very exciting to get. Gold tempers are nothing to sneeze at, but no one is going to be able to gold out all their gear by relying on crown crate drops.

Locking an entire CRAFTING MOTIF behind the crate system completely, especially in page form -- requiring players to purchase AT LEAST one 5000-crown crate pack to even HOPE to obtain a full motif (if they're exceptionally lucky with both motif-drops and gem-deconnable drops from that pack) is short-sighted and incredibly hostile to the player base.

Please reconsider.

code65536

efster wrote: »

If you want the blue crate drops to feel better for players, give them a chance to drop special untradable gold tempers that you can use alongside regular gold tempers (like there are already crown soul gems and gold-purchasable soul gems). That's useful, has no effect on the ingame economy, and it would be very exciting to get. Gold tempers are nothing to sneeze at, but no one is going to be able to gold out all their gear by relying on crown crate drops.

But therein lies the slippery slope to P2W. Particularly if they drop jewelry upgrade plates.

efster

code65536 wrote: »

But therein lies the slippery slope to P2W. Particularly if they drop jewelry upgrade plates.

Yeah, that's true, so no jewellery plates until they become more common in the base game, and the drop rate would have to be low enough to just be a happy surprise, not something one would be able to farm. Having to throw several hundred dollars at an RNG wheel to upgrade a single piece of equipment isn't really my idea of P2W. I always thought P2W was more like you pay dollars and get super powerful equipment or skills that put you head and shoulders above the competition. Gold gear is great, sure, but a bad player in gold gear will still get outplayed by a skilled player in purple.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itd be nice if yall made the stuff in the crown crates actually obtainable in the game themselves without crown crate interaction. its not really fair to those of us who dont have the money to constantly throw at them.

Actually it's not very fair either to expect them to design and provide new stuff for free. People deserve salaries.

I don't mind paying for things, I purchased both the Crown Exclusive motifs so far, my issues is with them trying to extract more money from me than it's worth.
I'm happy to help pay their salaries but not with the entirety of mine.

Agreed. I'm not defending the crates here, let alone crate exclusive motif pages.
I was addressing the demand for all crown and crate stuff being made obtainable in game, which sounds too extreme.

But in any case, you said "TRYING to extract", and the keyword here is TRY. You don't have to buy. In my case they can try all they want, it won't work.

But with many other people, it seems to work very well : look at the shift in the replies already. People already start looking at the crates as something normal and asking for more stuff in crates instead of less crates.

Wayshuba

Thing is complaining about crates, or what is in them, is not going to change a thing as long as people buy them. It's that simple.

The only thing that will change them, is if people stop buying them and their is a massive backlash felt in revenue. Unfortunately, it's the way these businesses work.

You don't think EA has abandoned MTs and Loot Crates in SW:BFII out of the goodness of their hearts do you? They are only doing it because it has hit them hard (very hard) in their wallets.

Same will happen with Loot Crates in this game. As long as they make money, they will remain. Business 101.