DON'T BUY SUMMERSET. ZoS screws it's players over again.

Jarryzzt

Without sliding into nonsensical Internet hyperbole...

- To point out the obvious, this is a business decision. Assuming ZOS is not run by a pack of drug-addled chimpanzees in the midst of a truly epic pub crawl - and I have worked for corporations that bloody well are - there must have been some business underpinnings for the decision, for example:

a) Insufficient - relative to internal projections (!) - number of players who have purchased Morrowind.

b) A desire to focus on increasing or retaining various sections of the player base - e.g. lowering monthly churn by building in the expectation of a "giveaway" within the visible future.

c) Blind emulation of "what the industry does". [Never to be underestimated where management is concerned. They are the true "sheeple".][Because "no-one ever gets fired for hiring/copying/following IBM". And it's true.]

d) Insufficient resources/desire internally to support multiple in-game "realms" depending on who has what expansions installed.

e) A desire to maintain one cohesive player base over time rather than segregate it into chunks by successive expansions. [This would imply more expansions in the pipeline beyond Summerset.]

Et cetera. You will notice that nowhere are "player feelings" considered, consulted, or otherwise countenanced. Although to be sure, various subscriber metrics will be peddled around in management meetings...generally to fit the narrative being pushed by this or that manager. Which, among other things, is almost always self-congratulatory (or, at least, self-effacing).

- One may recall the howls of frustration (and threats to quit the game, and predictions of an impending apocalypse) on these very forums back when Morrowind had been announced as an expansion rather than a DLC. [Especially after it transpired that as actual content goes, Morrowind isn't that different from a proper DLC...] Now there are howls, threats and predictions after ZOS announcing they are giving away Morrowind.

You truly can't please some people. [Within the realm of the rational. Expecting all content to be instantaneously created and delivered for free is not rational.]

- What I really want to know is this. Let us assume that Summerset will be "Morrowinded" around the time of the next expansion pack, whenever that is. Will they open up all of the content, and I am specifically referencing jewelry crafting? [It makes perfect sense to me, as I would have opened it up from the very beginning but understand that this way they can make some extra coin from players who want to craft rings 6-9 months earlier than everyone else. On the other hand, it would be a very peculiar, risky, and, dare I say, bold move to start segmenting content like crafting. Surely they wouldn't have the guts to do it. Would they?]

Nyghthowler

Turelus wrote: »

I'm in a trial, is there a TL;DR?

I only read every third word. Got half the drama and tears, while still being plenty Salty.

geofhob14_ESO

Was going to respond but it looks like the consensus is OP makes no sense

snailbrick

Moving Morrowind to the Crown Store and making it available for purchase with crowns is a huge slap in the face to me. During the Fall Season before Morrowind was released, I loaded up on Crowns during a crown sale. I bought 2 5500 packs and thought that I was set up for all future CONTENT added to the game for a while. Shortly after that they announced that you couldn't use Crowns to purchase Morrowind. Every other single content release in the game was able to be purchased by crowns including Orsinium which seemed to be a substantially larger piece of content.

I still bought Morrowind because they said they changed their business model. New future large content additions would be considered DIFFERENT from DLC and would not be able to be purchased by Crowns, but DLC could be bought with Crowns. I think what happened is they devalued their own currency of Crowns. They started giving it away with the ESO+ membership. That was a huge mistake because some people were stockpiling 1500+ Crowns a month through their membership. The rest of us that don't have ESO+ had bought our Crowns outright with money through direct payment. Zenimax should have given them member points or some other exclusive currency they could spend on member only items. This was a huge mistake. They forced their own hand at this point. If they released Morrowind initially for purchase by crowns, a good amount of ESO+ members would be able to buy it instantly with no new money entering ZOS' pockets. These poor business choices were not the fault of innocent supporters of the game. ZOS is the one who allowed people to not have to buy a monthly membership, and allowed people to purchase all the added CONTENT individually with Crowns. Sorry if this didn't work out to be the best profitability for them, but that's not my fault. I guess they had to lure new people into their web by offering a false illusion.

I was upset, but fine with making a business change to not allow larger content to be purchased with Crowns. But now this?? Now it's ok to purchase with Crowns?? This really takes the cake. I would have purchased it initially with Crowns and you still would have made MONEY off of me because I bought my crowns directly for MONEY.

Make your business decisions and stick with them. Quit changing your policies every 3 months with this stuff. It's really offensive to those of us who went ahead and said oh well and STILL SUPPORTED you last year when you made the decision to shift everything. Now you slap us in the face and say that everyone can purchase Morrowind through the store by Crowns. Unbelievable and very shameful betrayal of your faithful players who have been with you for 2 or more years.

Riddari

Value tends to diminish over time.

Tannus15

ZoS is doing things which make things better for everyone from now on.

I'm very happy new players won't have to buy morrowind separately. I don't care that I bought it before that, I enjoyed it, it was worth it.

If i knew everything I know now, when Morrowind launched I would still have bought the upgrade.

I will buy summerset in full knowledge that it might be available for crowns when the next chapter drops next year and that doesn't bother me at all.

Nyladreas

ArchMikem wrote: »

Yeah, sure, this is fine for those who didn't already fork out up to $120 for Morrowind when you announced it; but those of us who did support you when you created the new content are getting even more screwed over than we were before.

Who in their right mind would pay over $100 for a small game expansion? I pay $30 for the digital upgrade and I'm just fine with that. You think you've been screwed over and deserve reparation for having paid them so much? Maybe you should rethink your financial decisions and then live with them after you make them.

LOL there really was 120 version... Damn

Katahdin

I wasnt upset when they bundled Morrowind with Summerset

I wasnt upset when they said it would be on the crown store.
Why? IMO paying with crowns isnt that different than a direct purchase.

I did feel a bit betrayed when they announced that Morrowind was going to be included with ESO+
I subscribe to ESO+

Then I thought about it a bit and I asked myself this:

If I had known a year ago that it would be included with ESO+, would I have ordered it anyway?

The answer to that is yes I probably would have still bought it anyway.
I purchased the MW collectors edition. I paid $95 for it and I feel I got my monies worth.

I preordered the Summerset Physical Collectors edition and I dont regret it one bit and wont be cancelling my preorder despite the fact that I know that it will probably be included with ESO+ and/or bundled with the next chapter next year.
Also not going to cancel ESO+


.

ErilAq

alright, I'll bite. What's wrong with Morrowind being ESO +? Most MMO's let previous expansions be "base game" otherwise the price tag is just too high for people, more people getting into the game and increasing the population of dungeon queues, battleground queues, and increasing friends.

I fail to see how you're "getting ripped off" you paid for the game, got to play it while it was relevant, spent a whole year on the content, and you somehow think you didn't get your money's worth? Sorry man, that's just entitlement talking. Guess what? In a year or so Summerset will probably be reduced price or free with the new expansion package. You can always wait a year for it

rafaelcsmaia

This post has potential for 2018's wall of text awards, you'd make trump proud!

snailbrick

ErilAq wrote: »

alright, I'll bite. What's wrong with Morrowind being ESO +? Most MMO's let previous expansions be "base game" otherwise the price tag is just too high for people, more people getting into the game and increasing the population of dungeon queues, battleground queues, and increasing friends.

I fail to see how you're "getting ripped off" you paid for the game, got to play it while it was relevant, spent a whole year on the content, and you somehow think you didn't get your money's worth? Sorry man, that's just entitlement talking. Guess what? In a year or so Summerset will probably be reduced price or free with the new expansion package. You can always wait a year for it

The point is how they keep moving the goal posts on the available methods of purchasing the products. First you can't buy Morrowind with Crowns, now magically you can buy it with crowns. The frustration is we bought into the story that everything is treated differently now as Expansion/Chapter and that crowns are no longer good to purchase these things. All that I am saying is figure it out, and stick with it. I had non-ESO+ crowns that I had bought with money that would have been perfectly able to purchase Morrowind and Zen had made money off of the transaction.

It's not about getting ripped off, it's about buying crowns before they launched Morrowind, then all of the sudden they change the whole equation on you and say that crowns are no longer able to purchase new expansion/chapter/(any other clever names they think of to keep twisting things.) Then they come back afterwards and totally go back on what they said and ALLOW crowns to purchase Morrowind. That's the irritating part. Plenty of us non-ESO+ users had crowns we would have gladly purchased Morrowind with. They still made money on the crown sales to us.

Get your purchase methods for new content figured out and stick with it Zenimax. Quit moving the goal posts around.

DoctorESO

Phage wrote: »

While I don't personally care, I do understand why some people are upset at Morrowind being brought to ESO+ and included in the base game purchase.

ZOS emphatically stated before Morrowind's release that it would not be available in ESO+ and that we would have to buy it separately. There was no mention of any future plans to include it in ESO+, and all communications with ZOS made it seem like Chapters would always be separate purchases.

So I can see why some people would be upset. If they had known that ESO+ would include Morrowind a year after release, they might have just waited. Some others are upset because of the huge outcry about Morrowind not being included in ESO+, and then later being added after people either bought it or bought the Summerset preorder.

The biggest issue I see here is unclear communication from ZOS. Guys, the players need to know these plans far in advance to avoid these miscommunication issues. Players like to be informed, and when they are not they can sometimes view it as deliberate. If you guys have plans to add Summerset to ESO+ anytime in the future, you should probably say so upfront if you want to avoid a situation like this next year. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Maybe they didn't make the decision to role Morrowind into ESO+ until recently? Sometimes things change from the initial plans.

tinythinker

OP should try a different MMO like World of Warcraft. Good time to do it too, because you get the current expansion free if you pre-order the one coming out this summer...

Dillpat

mythlover20 wrote: »

*Sigh.* Seriously, Zenimax, what is wrong with you?

You finally gave us a system that was fair to both veteran players, and the new players drawn in by the announcement of the Summerset expansion, by giving those new players the ability to buy the Morrowind Expansion at half price and to do so after Summerset was released, so those who couldn't buy it within that very small window of opportunity could still get some savings if they bought it bundled with Summerset. And now you go and do this?

Yeah, sure, this is fine for those who didn't already fork out up to $120 for Morrowind when you announced it; but those of us who did support you when you created the new content are getting even more screwed over than we were before.

You know full well that the veteran players make up the vast majority of the player base. We are the ones who spend our money every paycheck on the various crown store features you offer. New players are cautious, and the vast majority of them leave after a few months, never to pick up the game again. It is the veteran players who who stick around week after week, renewing our subscriptions month after month, buying costumes or assistants or even houses when we can afford it. Yet you do this to us again. Again!

There would be no problem if you were offering something to those veteran players who made Morrowind so successful that you got to keep your jobs. We're the ones paying you more money than anyone should have to so you can keep the servers running. We're the ones who are keeping you all in your jobs. And yet once again you try to abandon us on the side of the road, bloody and broken, because you want to sucker in the newbies before word of mouth gets around and the day-one and pre-order sales dry up.

No other MMO, or any other game at all, offers content it cost them millions of dollars to make for free to some people, and not the others. And yes, I know DLC can be bought with subscription crowns. If you had done the exact same thing with Morrowind from day one none of us would have a problem. But now you are offering free content to a very small fraction of the player base, while everyone else still had to pay for it!

I almost cried the day you announced this; because that one flicker of intelligent decision-making you displayed by offering Summerset alone at a discounted price for those who didn't need Morrowind again gave me, and the other veteran players, a small spark of hope, that made all the abuse and threats we got from the new players worthwhile. Now? Well, you're just making us pay for it all again. Again.

This is a suicidal move, and I give you one warning: BETRAYING YOUR ESTABLISHED VETERAN PLAYER BASE LIKE THIS WILL END YOU. It won't be today, or tomorrow, but you will be forced to shut down the servers as the new players you suckered in with free content learn that what you are currently doing to us, you are more than happy to also do to them.

So offer the hundreds of thousands of us who gave you our hard-earned money when Morrowind was released something in return for our loyalty and our support. Thousands have already cancelled their subscriptions and closed their accounts because of your utter disregard for your consumers. Keep Morrowind free for the new players by all means, but give us something, like 4000 crowns and a choice of notable houses. Or better yet, give us Summerset for free, since you're giving away Morrowind. If they deserve something for free, then so do we. But seriously, just do something to convince us to stay and keep giving you the money that keeps your company alive and your employees able to put food on their tables for their families.

To those people who abused me last time, and to those who are just coming into this game, I offer you one piece of advice, though I know most of you will ignore it: DON'T BUY SUMMERSET!

I'm not saying that in protest, though I know that is the most likely interpretation. Instead I'm offering it as a warning. We payed up to $120 for the Morrowind expansion, and now they are offering it free to the people who can now buy it with their subscription crowns (which they get FOR FREE with their subscription, making Morrowind free for those who pay for it this way). If they do this with Morrowind, it is guaranteed that they will do this exact same thing with Summerset next year. So new players next year will get up to $250 worth of free expansions that you paid far too much for less than a year before hand. Then you will be in the exact same position I and my other veteran players are in now, and you will be sitting there suffering days of endless abuse from the new players who think they are entitled to it simply because they came later than you did.

We either stand up now and demand they treat everyone with respect, or we let them walk all over us, and everyone who comes after us, now and in the future.

Oh, and to the forum moderators: I apologise for the abuse and utter vitriol that the other forum users posted on my last thread. It was... disgusting for me to read it. I hate to think of how horrible it must have been for you. I will not apologise for posting these threads, though. We consumers have the right to be treated with respect and equality across the board. That said, I know it's not your fault, and I apologise for the abuse that this thread will inevitably attract. But I will stand up for myself. Some countries probably have laws against this, though I don't know which, nor the precise document, otherwise I would have posted a link to it. We deserve better than this. We deserve better than you (ZoS you, not you, you). Someone has to stand up for those being stepped on, and it might as well be me, since everyone already hates me.

To everyone else, please, post your own threads, tweet ZoS' twitter, post on their facebook pages, write tumblr posts, make your own videos, and send in customer support tickets. Maybe then we will finally be treated like people and not walking ATMs. Probably not, but if we don't try, we will never win.

Oh, and I won't be reading this threat until the moderators step in. I had enough of the abuse from the majority of forum users the last time. They and the others still deserve help, though. So, you know, go nuts if it makes you feel better.

everyone knew the price would drop and eventually become free or very very cheap as zenimax want to sell their newest content. you didnt have to fork out 120, i waited 2 or so months and got it for just over 20.

GeorgeBlack

mythlover20 wrote: »

*Sigh.* Seriously, Zenimax, what is wrong with you?

You finally gave us a system that was fair to both veteran players, and the new players drawn in by the announcement of the Summerset expansion, by giving those new players the ability to buy the Morrowind Expansion at half price and to do so after Summerset was released, so those who couldn't buy it within that very small window of opportunity could still get some savings if they bought it bundled with Summerset. And now you go and do this?

Yeah, sure, this is fine for those who didn't already fork out up to $120 for Morrowind when you announced it; but those of us who did support you when you created the new content are getting even more screwed over than we were before.

You know full well that the veteran players make up the vast majority of the player base. We are the ones who spend our money every paycheck on the various crown store features you offer. New players are cautious, and the vast majority of them leave after a few months, never to pick up the game again. It is the veteran players who who stick around week after week, renewing our subscriptions month after month, buying costumes or assistants or even houses when we can afford it. Yet you do this to us again. Again!

There would be no problem if you were offering something to those veteran players who made Morrowind so successful that you got to keep your jobs. We're the ones paying you more money than anyone should have to so you can keep the servers running. We're the ones who are keeping you all in your jobs. And yet once again you try to abandon us on the side of the road, bloody and broken, because you want to sucker in the newbies before word of mouth gets around and the day-one and pre-order sales dry up.

No other MMO, or any other game at all, offers content it cost them millions of dollars to make for free to some people, and not the others. And yes, I know DLC can be bought with subscription crowns. If you had done the exact same thing with Morrowind from day one none of us would have a problem. But now you are offering free content to a very small fraction of the player base, while everyone else still had to pay for it!

I almost cried the day you announced this; because that one flicker of intelligent decision-making you displayed by offering Summerset alone at a discounted price for those who didn't need Morrowind again gave me, and the other veteran players, a small spark of hope, that made all the abuse and threats we got from the new players worthwhile. Now? Well, you're just making us pay for it all again. Again.

This is a suicidal move, and I give you one warning: BETRAYING YOUR ESTABLISHED VETERAN PLAYER BASE LIKE THIS WILL END YOU. It won't be today, or tomorrow, but you will be forced to shut down the servers as the new players you suckered in with free content learn that what you are currently doing to us, you are more than happy to also do to them.

So offer the hundreds of thousands of us who gave you our hard-earned money when Morrowind was released something in return for our loyalty and our support. Thousands have already cancelled their subscriptions and closed their accounts because of your utter disregard for your consumers. Keep Morrowind free for the new players by all means, but give us something, like 4000 crowns and a choice of notable houses. Or better yet, give us Summerset for free, since you're giving away Morrowind. If they deserve something for free, then so do we. But seriously, just do something to convince us to stay and keep giving you the money that keeps your company alive and your employees able to put food on their tables for their families.

To those people who abused me last time, and to those who are just coming into this game, I offer you one piece of advice, though I know most of you will ignore it: DON'T BUY SUMMERSET!

I'm not saying that in protest, though I know that is the most likely interpretation. Instead I'm offering it as a warning. We payed up to $120 for the Morrowind expansion, and now they are offering it free to the people who can now buy it with their subscription crowns (which they get FOR FREE with their subscription, making Morrowind free for those who pay for it this way). If they do this with Morrowind, it is guaranteed that they will do this exact same thing with Summerset next year. So new players next year will get up to $250 worth of free expansions that you paid far too much for less than a year before hand. Then you will be in the exact same position I and my other veteran players are in now, and you will be sitting there suffering days of endless abuse from the new players who think they are entitled to it simply because they came later than you did.

We either stand up now and demand they treat everyone with respect, or we let them walk all over us, and everyone who comes after us, now and in the future.

Oh, and to the forum moderators: I apologise for the abuse and utter vitriol that the other forum users posted on my last thread. It was... disgusting for me to read it. I hate to think of how horrible it must have been for you. I will not apologise for posting these threads, though. We consumers have the right to be treated with respect and equality across the board. That said, I know it's not your fault, and I apologise for the abuse that this thread will inevitably attract. But I will stand up for myself. Some countries probably have laws against this, though I don't know which, nor the precise document, otherwise I would have posted a link to it. We deserve better than this. We deserve better than you (ZoS you, not you, you). Someone has to stand up for those being stepped on, and it might as well be me, since everyone already hates me.

To everyone else, please, post your own threads, tweet ZoS' twitter, post on their facebook pages, write tumblr posts, make your own videos, and send in customer support tickets. Maybe then we will finally be treated like people and not walking ATMs. Probably not, but if we don't try, we will never win.

Oh, and I won't be reading this threat until the moderators step in. I had enough of the abuse from the majority of forum users the last time. They and the others still deserve help, though. So, you know, go nuts if it makes you feel better.

You are cheap

VexingArcanist

mythlover20 wrote: »

fork out up to $120 for Morrowind

What do I even respond to this with? doh? Who the hell does this? How many games could you have bought instead? I paid 20 USD for the Morrowind upgrade. I am not salty at all that it's gonna be part of the base game soon, no more than after I had bought a WoW expansion the next expansion has the previous put into the base game. I think it's called...progression?

I commend ZOS for the announced changes, putting Morrowind into the base game, BGs for all content owners, etc.

ZiRM

This threads lasted longer than expected.

zaria

starkerealm wrote: »

Okay, in a rare moment, I actually stopped reading that post somewhere around the third page. This is about Morrowind being moved to the crown store? So that if you're picking the game up from scratch, and subscribing, the only thing you need to worry about is buying Summerset? So, that we don't have a situation in three years where someone looks at ESO and says, "yeah, that'd be cool, but the expansions alone cost 200 bucks? I'll pass."

How about 10 years or more years.

Riddari wrote: »

Value tends to diminish over time.

This is especially true for entertainment products.
Books get reprinted at paperbacks, movies is sent on tv.games get cheaper and got ultimate editions with all dlc.
MMO tend to bundle old expansions.

I would rather want to complain about fruit is more expensive during the winter.
This is an far older and more expensive issue.

Narvuntien

Tl;DR: The Sky is Falling.

Sigma957

Ooops too late I have already preordered Summerset weeks ago, I guess I should have waited a year before getting it bundled with that years chapter never mind the fact that I have been playing it for a year and got 100's if not 1000's of hours out of it.

snailbrick

I just wanted to clarify in my previous posts that I didn't want to come across as demanding a free handout from ZOS or requiring them to give out something to make up for this. Quite the opposite. I'm certainly aware of the fact that this is a business and they have to make money to keep the boat afloat. The point of contention I have is with the way they have handled how customers are able to purchase these new expansions/chapters/etc. First you can't buy them with crowns, now you can, first you didn't get Morrowind with ESO+, now you get it with ESO+. I believe the main complaint from players that are in my situation, who bought all of the DLC with crowns, just want to be standing on solid ground here. I have no problem with paying for new content. Just make up your ever-changing mind on how you want us to buy this content. Are you or aren't you going to allow crowns to purchase new chapter content? And for the ESO+ members, are you or aren't you going to include access to new chapter content?

One main issue I have is that most of us gave them the benefit of the doubt and said maybe they do have to change the business model to make money, but they betrayed that trust by totally reversing everything they said couldn't be done. I don't agree with the way the OP portrayed his argument, but I do understand the frustration.

I want ZOS to make money so they can continue to produce a high quality game, but don't spit on your veteran players just to lure new blood into the game. It's definitely a gamble they are taking. The new players may or may not hang around and spend extra money on the game. That variable is already known with most veteran players. We have spent lots of money on the game. Don't bite the hand that feeds.

radiostar

I'm recommending the Here's The Thing podcast with Alec Baldwin (maybe Carly Simon's episode) or perhaps Girl In Space, about a girl, in space.

temjiu

Sort of reminds me of my PC build. Did it about a year ago, got lightly above average equipment with a few splurges (Video card, SSD, etc).

now I look at the prices of the same equipment, and most of it's half the cost If I'm lucky. I don't expect the manufacturers or retailers to give me some money back just because technology moved past my PC and pricing dropped. I don't feel cheated...I got years of play out of my current PC build.

It's similar in a way. If you want the cutting edge stuff, you pay a hefty price knowing that in 6 months other people are going to get it for far less. you pay the price to get it NOW.

snailbrick

temjiu wrote: »

Sort of reminds me of my PC build. Did it about a year ago, got lightly above average equipment with a few splurges (Video card, SSD, etc).

now I look at the prices of the same equipment, and most of it's half the cost If I'm lucky. I don't expect the manufacturers or retailers to give me some money back just because technology moved past my PC and pricing dropped. I don't feel cheated...I got years of play out of my current PC build.

It's similar in a way. If you want the cutting edge stuff, you pay a hefty price knowing that in 6 months other people are going to get it for far less. you pay the price to get it NOW.

How's your video card situation? Have you checked the prices on that market right now?

Also, its one thing to argue that new customers shouldn't get pieces of content for free etc., but I think some of you are missing the main point of the argument. What about constantly changing the methods of purchase for the new chapters? When it first came out, you can't use crowns, even though some of us had pre-purchased crowns for that exact purpose. Now, they say you can purchase it with crowns. I don't mind taking a hard line and staying with it, but all the wishy washy changes with business practices here have left some of us a bit irritated. It's not that I want anything for free, I'm willing to pay, but if your constantly changing how we can pay for this new content it seems a bit scammy. I think this whole thing over the last year was a big experiment to test the waters for ZOS. To see how the playerbase would respond and how much they can push it. Some people just eat whatever is put in front of them. I get it, but there are those of us who understand what is going on with the changes in business practices here. They really seem to want to have their cake and eat it too, when they tell veteran players who already have the game and have already purchased crowns that you can't buy Morrowind with crowns, but then on a whim now going into the next chapter Morrowind is available for purchase with crowns. I'm not sure there is a proper, acceptable, and logical defense of this behavior.

I've yet to see anyone address this subject with a good rebuttal.

Turelus

This thread delivered on quality analogies whilst I slept.

Pizza, beer, jeans cars...

fossoyer

I dont buy it at full price, i will wait or buy it on other place than zenimax web site.
I do this for morrowind and save lot of money.

HowlKimchi

commenting before thread gets locked

*hi mom!*

snailbrick

fossoyer wrote: »

I dont buy it at full price, i will wait or buy it on other place than zenimax web site.
I do this for morrowind and save lot of money.

This is true, there is another site that I pre-purchased Summerset on for $23 or so. And the collector's edition was $31. I just chose the cheaper version because I don't really care about the extras as much.

Beardimus

mythlover20 wrote: »

*Sigh.* Seriously, Zenimax, what is wrong with you?

You finally gave us a system that was fair to both veteran players, and the new players drawn in by the announcement of the Summerset expansion, by giving those new players the ability to buy the Morrowind Expansion at half price and to do so after Summerset was released, so those who couldn't buy it within that very small window of opportunity could still get some savings if they bought it bundled with Summerset. And now you go and do this?

Yeah, sure, this is fine for those who didn't already fork out up to $120 for Morrowind when you announced it; but those of us who did support you when you created the new content are getting even more screwed over than we were before.

You know full well that the veteran players make up the vast majority of the player base. We are the ones who spend our money every paycheck on the various crown store features you offer. New players are cautious, and the vast majority of them leave after a few months, never to pick up the game again. It is the veteran players who who stick around week after week, renewing our subscriptions month after month, buying costumes or assistants or even houses when we can afford it. Yet you do this to us again. Again!

There would be no problem if you were offering something to those veteran players who made Morrowind so successful that you got to keep your jobs. We're the ones paying you more money than anyone should have to so you can keep the servers running. We're the ones who are keeping you all in your jobs. And yet once again you try to abandon us on the side of the road, bloody and broken, because you want to sucker in the newbies before word of mouth gets around and the day-one and pre-order sales dry up.

No other MMO, or any other game at all, offers content it cost them millions of dollars to make for free to some people, and not the others. And yes, I know DLC can be bought with subscription crowns. If you had done the exact same thing with Morrowind from day one none of us would have a problem. But now you are offering free content to a very small fraction of the player base, while everyone else still had to pay for it!

I almost cried the day you announced this; because that one flicker of intelligent decision-making you displayed by offering Summerset alone at a discounted price for those who didn't need Morrowind again gave me, and the other veteran players, a small spark of hope, that made all the abuse and threats we got from the new players worthwhile. Now? Well, you're just making us pay for it all again. Again.

This is a suicidal move, and I give you one warning: BETRAYING YOUR ESTABLISHED VETERAN PLAYER BASE LIKE THIS WILL END YOU. It won't be today, or tomorrow, but you will be forced to shut down the servers as the new players you suckered in with free content learn that what you are currently doing to us, you are more than happy to also do to them.

So offer the hundreds of thousands of us who gave you our hard-earned money when Morrowind was released something in return for our loyalty and our support. Thousands have already cancelled their subscriptions and closed their accounts because of your utter disregard for your consumers. Keep Morrowind free for the new players by all means, but give us something, like 4000 crowns and a choice of notable houses. Or better yet, give us Summerset for free, since you're giving away Morrowind. If they deserve something for free, then so do we. But seriously, just do something to convince us to stay and keep giving you the money that keeps your company alive and your employees able to put food on their tables for their families.

To those people who abused me last time, and to those who are just coming into this game, I offer you one piece of advice, though I know most of you will ignore it: DON'T BUY SUMMERSET!

I'm not saying that in protest, though I know that is the most likely interpretation. Instead I'm offering it as a warning. We payed up to $120 for the Morrowind expansion, and now they are offering it free to the people who can now buy it with their subscription crowns (which they get FOR FREE with their subscription, making Morrowind free for those who pay for it this way). If they do this with Morrowind, it is guaranteed that they will do this exact same thing with Summerset next year. So new players next year will get up to $250 worth of free expansions that you paid far too much for less than a year before hand. Then you will be in the exact same position I and my other veteran players are in now, and you will be sitting there suffering days of endless abuse from the new players who think they are entitled to it simply because they came later than you did.

We either stand up now and demand they treat everyone with respect, or we let them walk all over us, and everyone who comes after us, now and in the future.

Oh, and to the forum moderators: I apologise for the abuse and utter vitriol that the other forum users posted on my last thread. It was... disgusting for me to read it. I hate to think of how horrible it must have been for you. I will not apologise for posting these threads, though. We consumers have the right to be treated with respect and equality across the board. That said, I know it's not your fault, and I apologise for the abuse that this thread will inevitably attract. But I will stand up for myself. Some countries probably have laws against this, though I don't know which, nor the precise document, otherwise I would have posted a link to it. We deserve better than this. We deserve better than you (ZoS you, not you, you). Someone has to stand up for those being stepped on, and it might as well be me, since everyone already hates me.

To everyone else, please, post your own threads, tweet ZoS' twitter, post on their facebook pages, write tumblr posts, make your own videos, and send in customer support tickets. Maybe then we will finally be treated like people and not walking ATMs. Probably not, but if we don't try, we will never win.

Oh, and I won't be reading this threat until the moderators step in. I had enough of the abuse from the majority of forum users the last time. They and the others still deserve help, though. So, you know, go nuts if it makes you feel better.

Sorry read a few lines and realized its another entitlement thread. And honestly if you paid $120 for MW that's on you, i paid £20 and £20 for summerset preorder that i only want for jewelry crafting and even im ok with that.

People getting a deal down the line is not 'screwing' players over its a good thing. You PAY for earlier access in life its like movies, $15 on release night free on TV if you wait a few years, did the movie goes get 'screwed' no.

agegarton

Oh no! I knew I should have come on here to take advice from a complete stranger before I bought the well-priced expansion to the game I really love!