Jewelry Crafting is now simply Pay To Win and extremely anti-consuming

Panomania

Nope, just nope.

Ok, lets try this for people with functioning glia. Again, since so many seem to have a hard time grasping the concepts.

ZOS doesnt have a mommy or daddy that can just give them the money they need to pay their bills, eat, pay for property, etc. Companies form at their core for ONE function: profit. If this isnt the core concern of a company, that company will fail. Period.

Now failure for a company doesnt mean that mommy or daddy hug them, tell them they are special and to use their words to express their feelings about failure. It means that the company is gone (or should, ridiculous "too big to fail" arguments aside). It means their employees are out of jobs, their families perhaps dont eat, pay bills, etc. Directly as a result for you, it means you dont get to play ESO anymore.

As someone stated, production costs, always. Beyond that keeping the lights on costs money. The substantial costs in terms of liability insurance (necessary for any game like this, and a HUGE cost many dont consider) not to mention standard legal fees for this type company are substantial (the monthly costs typically surpass what most people make annually). Long story short, games like this cost one hell of a lot more to maintain than many seem to think.

Now, because so many of today's alleged gamers wont support pay to play anymore (see I wants what I wants! statement above) ESO has embraced free to play, with real cash purchases for optional content. Again, read OPTIONAL CONTENT! THIS IS NOT PAY TO WIN. You can easily play this game and NEVER pay a dime past the pittance you pay for the core software, and many do, which is the problem. Many people do not, and even more pay next to nothing in a year. ZOS has to find new and creative ways to make money, or they shut down (google "mmo's that have shut down" for several lists of closed games).

Now, if you're thinking "Man, ZOS seems to be doing everything they can to encourage me to spend more money on their game!" you'd be right...and thats exactly what they should be doing.

GoonyGoat

Turelus wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

And how is transmute station free for everyone? You have to own CWC. Sure guilds can have it, huge amounts of writs can buy it, but it is essentially a locked feature for majority of people that aren't into big guilds and don't have huge vouchers.

That being said, I really see no big deal in this, at all. Not to mention it's far too early to criticize.

@maboleth the difference here is from what the article has said is you can't use them unless you buy the expansion.

Transmutation stations can used by base game players via the ways you've said, but even if a base player comes across a jewellery station (which sound like they're in all base zones) they just won't be able to use it. I would assume they'll get a "You lack the Summerset Expansion needed for this feature" seeing as this is a crafting skill line it's going to seem odd to new players they need to pay $30 more for the "full crafting line".

Ah that does suck, I assumed it would be like the transmute stations.

However, this is only my opinion, but I don't see exactly why the massive outrage?
The digital upgrade at launch costs less than a 5500 pack of crowns (in eur). Is it because its behind a chapter (so eso+ cant auto-access it)? Though you would even then need to actually purchase it at some stage to still access the crafting when your sub lapses.

As some peeps have already mentioned: Maelstrom, thieves and brotherhood as well as many good crafted set are technically also behind a paywall but the forums aren't filled with them.

At least all the Summerset debate makes for a good lunch read

Pr0fischimmler

I think you're heading into the wrong direction here (Please tell me why).

Just like transmutation, it will just be convenience. If you don't have it, go grind it. Don't want to grind? Well then, get the expansion...

Rungar

This is not your own personal free gaming service.

You have to chip in something to keep it going and the options are fantastic.

Edziu

I think you're correct and jewelry crafting should not be locked behind paywall.

I can say it looks for p2w, especially for just pvp player
pvp players just dont care in any content
but crafted sets...if you also dont want or cant farm sets from pve then we have some crafted sets which are really good in pvp and even now can be good builds with 2x 5 piece crafted sets but we cant because of missing jewerly crafting

end here then as ZOS just ignoring pvp since always, they have done only IC as pvp content and still they jsut dont care about this...for this pvp player is forced to buy expansion only to be able to craft sets in jewerly?
it doesnt look good, healty for me

why the hell player which is just ignored be devs (excluding balance patches but its in other hand...its just changing for all) should now pay only for this single thing because if not he will be handicapped

it could be just like ZOS create new chapter 100% for pvp but then we have rewards with nice sets/items for pve for getting into maybe top 10 in weakly leaderboards! or something like this, where you are pve player and you are forced to buy new chapter for pvp just to get single thing for pve

will it be fine for everyone?

Palidon

I think you're heading into the wrong direction here (Please tell me why).

ZOS has to make money to continue game development. If you do not like the cost of the new expansion no one says you have to buy it. You will however, not get jewelry crafting as a result. You also need to understand that there is a lot more in the new expansion besides Jewelry Crafting. Not everything is free get use to it.

Nelson_Rebel

I understand what you're saying, but I still agree to ZOS decision (Please share your reasons below).

You know you are WRONG when almost every single person is saying no.


Sorry OP you are bad, and should feel bad.

Troneon

I think you're correct and jewelry crafting should not be locked behind paywall.

ZOS Have been doing this since day one, it is expected.

They did with pre orders and Imperial Race behind a pay wall and many many many many other things with each and every release to get people to jump over those pay walls...

It will never change with ZO$$$$$$$$$

I am just glad I got Summerset Digital Collector Upgrade for very cheap and 23% off

Jameliel

I think you're correct and jewelry crafting should not be locked behind paywall.

aliyavana wrote: »

no, new expansion exclusive features are common in mmo expansions and eso is no exception. Pc players know this whom have been in many mmos before and console players best get used to the way mmos operate in new expansion exclusive features. The base game is like what only 20 dollars now and its b2p, they need more money to continue developing the game.

How much profit has the company made? How much more do they need to "continue developing the game"? I am speculating here, but I'd be willing to wager a small amount that you are one of those people with enough disposable income that you buy quite a lot from the crown store.

This is a game. A lot of us have already spent our hard-earned money on paying for the game. We also pay for ESO+. Your argument holds no weight because it imposes zero boundaries on ZOS. Basically you are saying they can charge whatever , and "force" people to pay more money for something that should have been implemented into the game from day 1.

Whales will be whales I guess. Welcome to gaming in 2018.

dennissomb16_ESO

I think you're correct and jewelry crafting should not be locked behind paywall.

For me it is simple. Their "chapters" are no way close to being an expansion. Look to any mainstream MMO that offers expansions and the difference is massive. People will always assign different value to various parts of any game. I have purchased many an expansion to various MMOs over the years and what ESO tries to call an expansion (chapter) has no where close to the value of most mainstream MMOs

I see the argument for the DLCs along the way but lets face it players pay for those DLCs either from outright purchasing or from ESO+ that they pay for. Combine DLC plus chapters and the cost far out weighs most MMOs and you still do not get as much value as most actual expansions of those MMOs

Hiding jewel crafting behind a chapter is simply a way of forcing active players to buy the chapter or what is actually a PTW option ( I do not normally consider ESO a PTW game)

IV_Deity

I understand what you're saying, but I still agree to ZOS decision (Please share your reasons below).

As a console player, I think most people that are complaining are console players as well. I feel it. I have experience with many MMOs and this is actually a normal thing that they are doing. In my opinion, ESO is probably the most lenient. I stand with their decision.

FakeFox

Others (Share your thought below)

Jewellery crafting shouldn't be a thing at all.

Panomania

Nope, just nope.

For me it is simple. Their "chapters" are no way close to being an expansion. Look to any mainstream MMO that offers expansions and the difference is massive. People will always assign different value to various parts of any game. I have purchased many an expansion to various MMOs over the years and what ESO tries to call an expansion (chapter) has no where close to the value of most mainstream MMOs

Please dont take this personally, but I read that as "I left the last boring game I couldnt stand anymore and came here, but I want to do everything I can to make sure this new game resembles the awful old one I left in every way."

But I guess I can understand that. I often want to see more of games like EQ, SWG or Vanguard in ESO....though in my defense none of those games really exist anymore.

IwakuraLain42

It's not P2W but it is a worrisome continuation of a trend started with CWC by placing features that are in fact base game features (like transmutation) behind a paywall. In CWC at least you could use that feature by buying the stations for your house or visiting a friends/guild house. This goes one step further and places a whole new part of the crafting system behind that paywall. If this panes out we can expect to see more base game features be locked away.

This is basically just a test from ZOS to see how far they can go with that.

SirMewser

I understand what you're saying, but I still agree to ZOS decision (Please share your reasons below).

I feel like the new traits themselves (and the psijic order) won't be P2W, seeing how Warden turned out, it just gives more options to those that bought the content as it would by getting a new class.

Sure this new system applies to everything, including old characters, but it was about time we got some potentially new ways to build our existing characters... In the end, none of the new traits nor psijic order line may ever see the light of day on my characters.

It would be nice if some of the traits complemented/helped certain playstyles, but on the other hand, they shouldn't be more than that where they could be quite dominating to the base game traits and have ZoS do nothing about it.

In other words, let's see how the new features turn out.

Violynne

Others (Share your thought below)

First: the notion of Jewelry Crafting being "play to win" is far-fetched. I don't see these rings as being any stronger than what can be found in the game. The rings just make it much more convenient for us to acquire what we want rather than waiting for RNG to favor us with its blessing.

Second: I selected "Other" because this new addition to the game is the *very* reason I will be buying the expansion. I still don't own Morrowind, but if Jewelry Crafting was part of the new expansion, I would have purchased without hesitation.

Third: ZoS has done a great job at releasing content while keeping the urge to go "F2P" or "P2W" under control. This is an MMO and it requires consistent revenue to remain viable. If ZoS doesn't deliver what people are willing to buy, there is no revenue, and then, there is no ESO.

I can't stand Crown Crates, but many do, and if this is what works to keep the game going, then I just criticize the crate system in the hope we ESO+ members can buy these items directly one day. Subscribers aren't whales.

Just my two Septims.

Sabbathius

I think you're correct and jewelry crafting should not be locked behind paywall.

It shouldn't be behind the pay wall, BUT I don't blame them for doing it this way. Unlike Morrowind, this expansion is very, very light on content. They HAD to take something significant, and lock it, to force the purchase.

Milvan

I think you're correct and jewelry crafting should not be locked behind paywall.

RobDaCool

Having to buy an expansion to use a feature that comes with it isn't pay to win.

being able to buy a top-level character with the best gear may be pay to win

lucky_Sage

Others (Share your thought below)

its not p2w when you can go to a friend to craft gear for you or zone chat.
and I doubt running to crafted sets will be BiS. unless they come out with a crafted set that competes with BsW or bone pirate and necro or other the other BiS sets

jaws343

I think you're heading into the wrong direction here (Please tell me why).

I think you are missing a few things here:

1. Transmutation of Jewelry has not even been mentioned in any of the promotional materials yet. It would be nice to have, but it isn't a guarantee yet.

2. In order to craft the jewelry with the new traits, a player will have to learn the new trait. The only way to learn traits in crafting is by researching an item with that trait. It follows that in order to research an item with a new trait that trait needs to be available on an item than can be received in some way through overland content. What does this mean? Well if you want an Arcane Necropotence ring after the new chapter, you will probably have to farm through all 9 traits worth of Necropotence Jewelry to get it. Similar to how you have a chance of picking up a Necropotence chest piece in a variety of traits now.

3. What does this mean for the base game? Most likely, these new traits will be dropped into the loot table for all sets. Meaning players who do not own the chapter will still have access to overland and dungeon set jewelry in the new traits. They will just have to farm for them. Why do I think this? Because I think it would be incredibly difficult to only update the loot table for jewelry for players who only own the new chapter.

4. TLDR: Transmuting Jewelry hasn't been confirmed. Researching jewelry will most likely require the current loot table for jewelry to be updated in the base game with the new jewelry traits. These new traits would then be available to all through farming.


All speculation of course.

Royaji

Nope, just nope.

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

It's not P2W but it is a worrisome continuation of a trend started with CWC by placing features that are in fact base game features (like transmutation) behind a paywall. In CWC at least you could use that feature by buying the stations for your house or visiting a friends/guild house. This goes one step further and places a whole new part of the crafting system behind that paywall. If this panes out we can expect to see more base game features be locked away.

This is basically just a test from ZOS to see how far they can go with that.

They. Are. Not. Base. Game. Features. Transmutation wasn't in the base game. Jewelry crafting wasn't in the base game. MA, MoL and HoF and all the DLC dungeons weren't in the base game. Warden wasn't in the base game too. There is no difference.

The base game features are left entirely intact and ZOS never locked you from them. If they were to lock Cyrodil, base game dungeons, Mages/Fighters guild, Craglorn and so on, it will be an issue. Everything that was not in the base game and is added as additional release can't be base game features.

typos

SGT_Wolfe101st

Nope, just nope.

Xuhora wrote: »

are we sure yet that jewelry crafting isnt implemented into the basegame? I mean sure we can freak out now, and then realize later that all the fuss was about nothing, because its in the base game.

@Xuhora Confirmed in the notice yesterday. It is vague as usual but it does state that Summerset is required to "use" the jewelry crafting stations. Wear, use, trade, etc. was not addressed.

Septimus_Magna

I think you're heading into the wrong direction here (Please tell me why).

With each DLC or Chapter things will be added to make your character stronger.
If those things are not in the DLC/Chapter Zenimax will simply sell a lot less DLCs/Chapters.

BiS back bar weapon? vMA weapons > need DLC
BiS front bar fire staff? perfected AS fire staff > need DLC
BiS dropped dmg sets? War Machine/Master Architect > need Chapter
Bis monster sets? Velidreth/Zaan > need DLC

Its nothing new so why is everyone so worked up about it?
Being the best you can be simply comes at a cost, you have to invest many hours to play and buy the latest content when its released.

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

are we sure yet that jewelry crafting isnt implemented into the basegame? I mean sure we can freak out now, and then realize later that all the fuss was about nothing, because its in the base game.

@Xuhora Confirmed in the notice yesterday. It is vague as usual but it does state that Summerset is required to "use" the jewelry crafting stations. Wear, use, trade, etc. was not addressed.

Just like you can get transmutation stones but only have access to the transmute station if you have the DLC or know someone with one in his/her home. It think there's a big chance jewelry crafting will work in a similar way.

Silver_Strider

Nope, just nope.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Get ya wallet out tight asses. Nothings free these days

Transmute is free. Outfit is free. Housing is free. Your point is?

Also, not everyone has an abundant sum of money to spill into 1 game.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

No more P2W than needing Morrowind to get War Machine/Master Architect or Orsinium/CWC to get Maelstrom/Asylum weapons.

I mean, seriously, there's still work involved in order to utilize these stations. Just because you buy Summerset, doesn't instantly mean you'll have all 9 traits researched upon release. There's a fairly time consuming grind ahead for people wish to utilize crafted jewelry as you need to find the traits for jewelry to research. Then, you have to consider that a lot of trial sets are just better than anything you can craft. I mean, what crafted set can top War Machine/Alkosh/Mending/Vicious Ophidian/etc? You are NOT going to drop any of those sets for some crafted set because it's just not as good. In PvP, maybe you'll utilize crafted sets over trial/dropped sets but PvP is a different beast entirely. There is always a set combination that can work for 1 person that fails for another because Player Skill and Ability Selection matter just as much there as what sets you're wearing; it's literally impossible to say that using 2 crafted sets is going to outperform 2 dropped or a 1 dropped+1 crafted set there.

There is literally no basis for P2W in this topic at all. You buy the content, do the research required and reap the benefits, end of discussion.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Get ya wallet out tight asses. Nothings free these days

Transmute is free. Outfit is free. Housing is free. Your point is?

Also, not everyone has an abundant sum of money to spill into 1 game.

You also don't need ANY of that to play competitively.
You can still grind for the perfect trait for your gear without Transmutation so it's not mandatory to have. None of the crafted sets available are as good as some trial sets so from a PvE stand point, it's not P2W. From a PvP standpoint, it's STILL not P2W as there are a wide variety of gear sets that can be equally viable in PvP with or without Jewelry Crafting.

Please answer me this: If there's a new jewelry trait that you really want, and your guild house have a transmutation table, but you can't transmute your Gold quality VO ring into the trait you want? Is that make any sense to you? ZOS gives you a bowl of soup and a spoon, but forbid you to eat it until you give them more money, and call it "eating fee". Really?

So because I want something, I should instantly be entitled to get it? Considering that I'd be unable to Transmute without 1st doing research on this imaginary trait, how would I go about transmuting my ring? Your argument actually hurts your point as it just demonstrations how I'd need to work in order to utilize the Jewelry Crafting system in order to get what I want. Putting in effort for something =/= P2W just like Wanting something=/=Entitled to it.

Ashtaris

OK, let’s try to get this P2W argument settled for jewelry crafting once and for all. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, will Rolis Hlaalu or his new associate have Jewelry Crafting stations purchasable with writ vouchers?

Royaji

Nope, just nope.

Ashtaris wrote: »

OK, let’s try to get this P2W argument settled for jewelry crafting once and for all. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, will Rolis Hlaalu or his new associate have Jewelry Crafting stations purchasable with writ vouchers?

It's kinda irrelevant, here is a quote directly from the article

Note that the Summerset Chapter is required to use the new Crafting Stations.

Even if you can get them for writ vouchers you will not be able to use them without Summerset. Still not p2w though...

Wayshuba

For me it's a Meh....

Other MMOs typically have level cap increases with the expansion. Guess who gets to increase levels - only those that bought the expansion. Same with some other features.

Jewelry crafting is NOT pay to win. Not in anyway, shape, or form. It would be one thing if they said jewelry could only be worn by those that bought the expansion, but they didn't.

Builds you have today with dropped gear or dropped/crafted, will still be just a viable as pre-expansion. Just as the ability to gain access to transmute is only available to CWC DLC/ESO+ members, it doesn't offer an advantage. Those that do not have access to CWC Transmute can still farm for the appropriate drops.

imredneckson

I understand what you're saying, but I still agree to ZOS decision (Please share your reasons below).

zakeehamacab16_ESO wrote: »

Supporting the game through getting an expansion is hardly pay to win in any sense of the word
Most other MMOs almost "demand" that you have expansions to be able to do anything from that point on (In that level caps are often increased, and you need the expansion to keep leveling, for example).

Amusing how the most vocal people in this community seem to be the "I bought the base game 4 years ago and shouldn't have to spend anything beyond that!" people...
If no-one is paying for anything, the game would not be updated ever again

Getting a feature from an expansion (Or chapter - Whatever; Same thing, different name) is not paying to win -.-

Couldn't have said it any better

imredneckson

I understand what you're saying, but I still agree to ZOS decision (Please share your reasons below).

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

zakeehamacab16_ESO wrote: »

Supporting the game through getting an expansion is hardly pay to win in any sense of the word
Most other MMOs almost "demand" that you have expansions to be able to do anything from that point on (In that level caps are often increased, and you need the expansion to keep leveling, for example).

Amusing how the most vocal people in this community seem to be the "I bought the base game 4 years ago and shouldn't have to spend anything beyond that!" people...
If no-one is paying for anything, the game would not be updated ever again

Getting a feature from an expansion (Or chapter - Whatever; Same thing, different name) is not paying to win -.-

Getting an expansion just because of Jewelry crafting only sounds really pay to win to me though

Also, I bought the new DLC for the stories and trial, just like with Morrowind and Clockwork City.

Most aren't just buying it for jewelry crafting. Most want to be able to fight in a new area, complete new quests, jewelry craft and more. I think you're stuck focusing on just the jewelry crafting and nothing else.