"Note that the Summerset Chapter is required to use the new (Jewelry) Crafting Stations."

Twenty0zTsunami

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

I am cancelling my preorder. I may get another as we see the developments, but for now my interest fades.

Sad to see such a promising game turn to hypermonetization, even if its not directly P2W, players should be on even turf no matter what DLC they buy or not, convenience, sets, new interesting content like BGs, IC, Morrowind zone, trials etc are all fun and fair, and allow the game to prosper. Forcing buys is not.

You can see how the focus of the game changed, game improvements, bug fixes etc are all secondary to cosmetics, new zones etc. Old DLC is often just forgotten.

No one gets my stuff, I am poor.

You do realise that nearly every other MMO out there forces you too do the exact same thing right? This model isnt new.

If people had such resistance to the notion of how expansions work (they can keep calling it a chapter but we all know these are expansions, calling it a chapter is just an excuse too overprice it) then perhaps people could of got up in arms about this in the early days.

Though I suppose outrage is a modern theme in the industry.

I dont support the model, I hate it - especially considering expansions in other games bring more content and are often cheaper by 30%, but I just find your comment somewhat - "late".

They're not even overpriced. WoW expansions legitimately cost as much as the base game did when it was brand new.

Psyonico

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

. Additionally, you will not be able to deconstruct any jewelry you're currently holding onto prior to Summerset launch.

Thanks for the info, but BOO!

MLGProPlayer

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, wanted to clear a few things up for you. Summerset is required to use any Jewelry Crafting Stations found in Tamriel. If you don’t own Summerset, you will still be able to find Jewelry Crafting resource nodes to sell, and you will also be able to purchase crafted jewelry from others. Set jewelry will be BoE, non-set will not be bound. Additionally, you will not be able to deconstruct any jewelry you're currently holding onto prior to Summerset launch.

We're currently working on a very extensive Jewelry Crafting article that we plan to publish before we start the next PTS cycle, which will hopefully answer a lot more questions.

My inventory thanks you for this information.

DieAlteHexe

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, wanted to clear a few things up for you. Summerset is required to use any Jewelry Crafting Stations found in Tamriel. If you don’t own Summerset, you will still be able to find Jewelry Crafting resource nodes to sell, and you will also be able to purchase crafted jewelry from others. Set jewelry will be BoE, non-set will not be bound. Additionally, you will not be able to deconstruct any jewelry you're currently holding onto prior to Summerset launch.

We're currently working on a very extensive Jewelry Crafting article that we plan to publish before we start the next PTS cycle, which will hopefully answer a lot more questions.

My inventory thanks you for this information.

Same.

EvilAutoTech

skinnycheeks wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Additionally, you will not be able to deconstruct any jewelry you're currently holding onto prior to Summerset launch.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you clarify this statement? I interpreted it as even those that own Summerset and can access the jewelrycrafting stations cannot deconstruct jewelry that was looted from before the Summerset expansion.

She also said nothing about upgrading or transmuting jewelry you already own. I guess we really need to read that upcoming article.

Eleandor

boombazookajd wrote: »

The folks who have been holding onto jewelry in anticipation are going to be PISSED

rule of thumb: no matter what you do, someone will be pissed. People who held onto jewelry for crafting will be. People who don't want to buy the new chapter will be. But isn't that just some general entitlement because the final implementation isn't 100% as expected? Some sold their stuff and saved gold in anticipation so they can buy jewelry to deconstruct. In hindsight a better idea. But it was an option, a decision.

I don't understand this discussion at all. Life is not fair. Do I complain that a college kid has more time on hand to play 12h a day than me because I work 50h a week? No. My progression will be slower, I may never be able to complete vet hm trials because I can only be a casual player. Do I have more money than the college kid? In most cases, yes. But generally ESO favors those with more time to spend on the game than those with more money to spend. My new radiant apex Senche won't carry me through vMoL, a summer break might. New jewelry btw won't carry me through it either. Or give me the edge in PvP over someone who has more time. We're comparing very hypothetical cases of 2 player with equal skill (that, let's face it usually comes from a lot of practice and muscle memory) and one of them happen to have $60 more than the other. Then P2W is a valid argument. But that is really just a case that happens every so often. Generally ESO seems like a very fair and flushed out game and then it comes down to entitlement and "it's not fair that my decisions ended up being the wrong one". Not more

MerlinPendragon

Jewelry crafting shouldn't be free just because the snowflakes demand it.

Nothing wrong with pay to win. ZOS is a business after all. I want this game to last in perpetuity and the way to make that happen is to contribute to their bottom line.

Money talks and BS walks.

Stewart1874

You can pick up ESO for basically nothing. You don't need a sub to start playing.

Theres nothing wrong with it. Its a benefit for continued support.

Bhaal5

So with all these pay walls and the influx of money, hows the fixes to zos's server infrastructure going? Are we going to suffer the same cr@p from morrowind and cwc? Or is it going to be another lagfest mess?
Its all well and good trying to flog off re skinned half baked products? But if it cant run for the general population that plays the game....

Would be nice if this is the chapter that makes eso playable to the rest of the world

Feric51

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, wanted to clear a few things up for you. Summerset is required to use any Jewelry Crafting Stations found in Tamriel. If you don’t own Summerset, you will still be able to find Jewelry Crafting resource nodes to sell, and you will also be able to purchase crafted jewelry from others. Set jewelry will be BoE, non-set will not be bound. Additionally, you will not be able to deconstruct any jewelry you're currently holding onto prior to Summerset launch.

We're currently working on a very extensive Jewelry Crafting article that we plan to publish before we start the next PTS cycle, which will hopefully answer a lot more questions.

Most of this sounds great, but I have two concerns. One I'll wait for the detailed article since I'm sure that'll explain it fine, but this bit about not being able to deconstruct existing jewelry is mildly concerning. Is the idea just to make sure that nobody gets a head start on the system? I understand the impetus for that, but that's not feasible, it just limits who gets to be part of the "head start" group. Specifically, people with a lot of spare gold and market power will still be able to buy up mats ahead of everyone else. Meanwhile, people completing content/getting PvE and PvP rewards are left out of the pool. Why let one group have a head start for things they do pre-chapter (acquiring gold) but not the others?

It is possible that there are differences in how old and new jewelry will be represented in the backend and making them compatible would be messy and now worth the risk and dev resources.

^^^ This. The jewelry in its current state does not have a “material” component to its coding. Therefore there is nothing contained in it that could be retrieved by deconstruction.

Similar to when trial gear went BoP, the “legacy” items stayed BoE - you can still find BoE viper and lich items in traders to this day. The code for BoP=True was not applied retroactively. The same can be assumed for jewelry implemented with Summerset.

Another possibility is that the new jewelry will have entirely different itemization numbers to account for different raw component makeup based on item level. (Assuming the coding of this game is similar to an older Matt Firor creation I once worked on, then a necklace of mother’s sorrow would have a code line of Item=25043. Various other modifiers would change depending on level and quality (color), but the base item number would always be 25043 and the name therefore always reads “necklace of mother’s sorrow.” In the new system, they will probably reassign item numbers to the jewelry that is able to interact with a crafting station. IE. a post-Summerset necklace of mother’s sorrow might be Item=78906, so any permissions granted to the new items will not retroactively affect the previous “identical” items.)

Also relating to how item coding worked in that other game: the server held a template for each item that could not be altered. So if a purple necklace of mother’s sorrow CP160 was Item=25043 and that item was improved to gold without changing the item number, then upon a server update (usually logging out/ back in) the item would revert back to the server’s template version of the item (purple). So for jewelry improvement to work, the mechanic would have to exist to actively update the item number, or change the item number to Item=00000 which is usually a default blank template that doesn’t initiate any reset from the server, therefore making any edits permanent until manually edited again.

As far as “tags” in the description differentiating between pre- and post-Summerset jewelry, I look for the item description itself to have an additional modifier to indicate “material.” Ex. “Adamantum necklace of mother’s sorrow” or whatever the different material possibilities will be. (Sorry I forget what all was datamined). This will make it very easy to tell the old from new at a glance.

TL;DR - The new jewelry will be inherently different, and it will be easy to tell them apart.

Lakashi

@ZOS_GinaBruno I have spent thousands of gold and much time collecting jewelery. Are you kidding that we can't take it apart??!? Why didn't you say that right away? Why even do that? I have at least 85 pieces of jewelry now. Why penalize people who play your game and anticipate you making awesome decisions in the future and preparing accordingly?? I'm literally about to say screw it over this. All this is is a big FU to active players. Does anyone know if there a return policy on pre-orders? This is a really bad decision. Please change it!

Lakashi

Don't do this...

radiostar

Hopefully we have free access to enought extra skill points on the pts, to add to our master crafters to try out at least one neck and 2 ring pieces with full crafted sets. Also need to be able to research more than 1 trait at a time. Looking forward to that new jewels crafting article coming out!

DaveMoeDee

Lakashi wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno I have spent thousands of gold and much time collecting jewelery. Are you kidding that we can't take it apart??!? Why didn't you say that right away? Why even do that? I have at least 85 pieces of jewelry now. Why penalize people who play your game and anticipate you making awesome decisions in the future and preparing accordingly?? I'm literally about to say screw it over this. All this is is a big FU to active players. Does anyone know if there a return policy on pre-orders? This is a really bad decision. Please change it!

Holy drama. That is what happens when you speculate. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

Thousands isn't much anyway.

BoloBoffin

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, wanted to clear a few things up for you. Summerset is required to use any Jewelry Crafting Stations found in Tamriel. If you don’t own Summerset, you will still be able to find Jewelry Crafting resource nodes to sell, and you will also be able to purchase crafted jewelry from others. Set jewelry will be BoE, non-set will not be bound. Additionally, you will not be able to deconstruct any jewelry you're currently holding onto prior to Summerset launch.

We're currently working on a very extensive Jewelry Crafting article that we plan to publish before we start the next PTS cycle, which will hopefully answer a lot more questions.

Many thanks for this very cogent explanation. I look forward to the rest of the preview articles!

BuddyAces

Lakashi wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno I have spent thousands of gold and much time collecting jewelery. Are you kidding that we can't take it apart??!? Why didn't you say that right away? Why even do that? I have at least 85 pieces of jewelry now. Why penalize people who play your game and anticipate you making awesome decisions in the future and preparing accordingly?? I'm literally about to say screw it over this. All this is is a big FU to active players. Does anyone know if there a return policy on pre-orders? This is a really bad decision. Please change it!

You must not have been playing long eh? There's a pretty big golden rule of thumb when it comes to this game, no matter what happens at all before the patch arrives, even if it's on pts for the whole cycle, NEVER base anything you prepare for on the upcoming patch until it hits. ZOS has a way of changing things literally on the last moment before the patch actually hits.

Lakashi

BuddyAces wrote: »

You must not have been playing long eh? There's a pretty big golden rule of thumb when it comes to this game, no matter what happens at all before the patch arrives, even if it's on pts for the whole cycle, NEVER base anything you prepare for on the upcoming patch until it hits. ZOS has a way of changing things literally on the last moment before the patch actually hits.

Clearly I put too much trust in the developers. It's a mistake I don't plan on making again. There are others games.

AlnilamE

Lyss1991 wrote: »

You all sound like a bunch of cheap, whiny, crybabies imo. Its $30 for the expansion. Zenimax would be out of their minds to keep pumping out content for the base game and not make profit off of it. Jewelry crafting is a major selling point of Summerset. Buy it, Have access. Dont buy it, And you will more than likely have to buy crafted items from someone else. Just like the people who dont have access to the DLC stations.

Further, Ive seen people mention attunable stations as a work around for not having DLC access. While thats true, You cannot access sets from DLC Dungeons or Maelstrom Arena.

Quit being cheap brats and buy the content.

MerlinPendragon wrote: »

Jewelry crafting shouldn't be free just because the snowflakes demand it.

Nothing wrong with pay to win. ZOS is a business after all. I want this game to last in perpetuity and the way to make that happen is to contribute to their bottom line.

Money talks and BS walks.

So you are saying that Summerset isn't worth the price if Jewelry Crafting is not locked behind it?

Because that sounds like what you are saying.

peacenote

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

WTS Mechanical Acuity jewelry. 1m per.

You know they're going to make jewelry BoP. They're not going to let you sell it like that, do you see what they did with transmuting? Zenimax does not want people to have even a single way to circumvent the Summerset paywall that isn't monstrously expensive like the transmute table for a home.

This would be very upsetting to me. Not so much because of the P2W debate, but it would be really really frustrating if a new craft was implemented and it didn't work like the rest of the crafts. The game world should have some consistency. Crafters should be able to sell their work.

Bfish22090

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, wanted to clear a few things up for you. Summerset is required to use any Jewelry Crafting Stations found in Tamriel. If you don’t own Summerset, you will still be able to find Jewelry Crafting resource nodes to sell, and you will also be able to purchase crafted jewelry from others. Set jewelry will be BoE, non-set will not be bound. Additionally, you will not be able to deconstruct any jewelry you're currently holding onto prior to Summerset launch.

We're currently working on a very extensive Jewelry Crafting article that we plan to publish before we start the next PTS cycle, which will hopefully answer a lot more questions.

If we are buying a gold piece of jewelry from the crown store, how we will know if we can decon it or not?

rustic_potato

Lord wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Lord wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

P2W to me is that free players cannot obtain stuff that paid player can obtain and losing edge completely due to that.

1.DLC dungeons sets are examples, but that is pretty reasonable since I see no walk around
2.Warden was alarming, but since warden is not going all OP at all, it's acceptable
3.Trait change, you have a chance to use it in house or your friend's house, so that was okay.

But if jewelry can only be crafted/improved by summerset owner AND can't be sold (bound upon craft/improve), that will be 100% P2W with no excuse, especially chapters cannot be purchased by crown or sub.

BoP-Bind on pick up may be the case based on the wording of the announcement(though it is too soon to be sure, I hope we will receive an answer about this soon):
"allowing you to truly tailor all of your items..."
"giving you exclusive all-new options for your character's jewelry..."
"and prepare for the first time to be able to craft, upgrade, and customize your own rings and necklaces! "

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom It will be awesome if you could please answer about the binding of Jewelry items after being crafted/upgraded at Jewelry crafting station.
Is the Jewelry BoE-Bind on Equip and tradeable or is it BoP-bind on pickup(not tradeable) ?

This is why I think it should be BoE: because people who don't buy Summerset can't use the tables themselves.

Right now, the Transmute stations are something you only have access to in two ways - buying CWC and traveling there or using a personal station in someone's home/guild hall. Anyone can use the station as long as you can find one. As such, they are able to acquire Trasmute stones to use the stations. And those items you change are bound to your account.

Jewelry stations will be everywhere. It sounds to me like normal ones (non-set) will be at the normal crafting locations and special set stations will be at each of the crafted set locations as well. Why would we ever need to craft normal jewelry? To sell as trait research. (In the same line of argument, I'm expecting that the writ voucher folks will have an attunable Jewelry station to go get your favorite crafted set jewelry stations as well.)

So a guild store market for jewelry is almost certainly implied by how this system is already known by us to be. Even if that market is only for traited jewelry for research, it's going to be possible to sell jewelry we have created ourselves.

Now people without Summerset won't need to buy jewels for trait research, since they can't use the stations no matter what. But they will want to purchase jewelry from people who can craft it. And since the market capability will be there, it seems weird that we Summerset owners would be able to sell and trade jewelry for trait research but not for the intended purpose of jewelry - to better stats or complete a set bonus.

The key thing will be the material needed to craft jewels. There's going to be some weird doodad we have to get to make jewelry. How that material drops and who's allowed to collect it is key. If everyone can collect that material, then the second part of a dynamic market will exist. If jewelry mats are rare drops from existing nodes, that's something that's potentially available to everyone (just like Transmute geodes). If, however, the mats we need to craft jewelry are only available from deconning unneeded jewelry, then only people who can use the stations can get the mats. So a non-Summerset user can't acquire what he or she needs to give to a crafter to get their jewels back.

I think that's what it hinges on. If everyone can acquire the mats regardless of owning Summerset, then crafted jewelry will be BoE. If mats are only available to people who own Summerset, however, then I expect that crafted jewelry will be BoP.

I wish someone in ZOS would clarify this point. The longer they don't, the more certain I am that crafted jewelry will be BoP.

ZOS wants people who buy the chapter to enjoy the benefits of Jewel crafting so making it BoP seems reasonable from that standpoint. Also if transmutation is available to Jewelry it changes the dynamic.

Personally I like that they are gating it completely behind the chapter to give more incentive to buy the chapter. Most people whining here just want more free stuff for their $20 game that offers months of gameplay time. Seems a bit selfish.

So you would agree if the next chapter after Summerset, let's call it "Akavir" will release something exclusive stronger than anything like the following:
Class: Necromancer
Description: Level of Power: Stronger than all other classes by 1.3X(stronger by 30% than all other classes).
*Exclusive to Akavir expansion.

It is the same with Jewelry crafting, craftable sets jewelry can be extremely useful when choosing the best builds and if all items created will be BoP, players who didn't purchase Summerset and don't have access to the jewelry will be in severe disadvantage.
As I said before it's not about if it's cheap or not, it is the ever increasing power behind the paywall/s.

Video game companies always make expansion exclusive stuff more powerful than the rest and it is perfectly fine. Yeah those who don't have the expansion will be at a disadvantage but why is that a problem? They still have access to the base game and other DLCs if they don't want to buy the expansion.

Honestly the Warden should have been way stronger at launch. ZOS kinda screwed up but I guess they are getting on the right track now.

Feric51

Bfish22090 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, wanted to clear a few things up for you. Summerset is required to use any Jewelry Crafting Stations found in Tamriel. If you don’t own Summerset, you will still be able to find Jewelry Crafting resource nodes to sell, and you will also be able to purchase crafted jewelry from others. Set jewelry will be BoE, non-set will not be bound. Additionally, you will not be able to deconstruct any jewelry you're currently holding onto prior to Summerset launch.

We're currently working on a very extensive Jewelry Crafting article that we plan to publish before we start the next PTS cycle, which will hopefully answer a lot more questions.

If we are buying a gold piece of jewelry from the crown store, how we will know if we can decon it or not?

Didn't realize gold jewelry, or any jewelry for that matter, was available in the crown store....

/s

Lakashi

So I guess all this means current jewelry isn't upgradeable either?

Integral1900

If you can’t upgrade existing jewelry there will be sooooo many arguments in trading, after all, if the jewelry looks the same how the heck do we tell if it can be upgraded or not? Every guild trader selling say plague doctor rings will have a load of stuff, half of which is now junk and half that can be improved. Good greif, the trolls and scam artists are going to have a field day! This is going to get toxic in a hurry unless old jewelry is marked in some realy obvious way.

Also this would mean farming up a new bunch of king slayer rings... oh god... I’m going to have to go back to fungal grotto...(sound of hysterical sobbing)... I had to do that cursed thing so many times I can do it blindfolded............

Cpt_Teemo

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

I am cancelling my preorder. I may get another as we see the developments, but for now my interest fades.

Sad to see such a promising game turn to hypermonetization, even if its not directly P2W, players should be on even turf no matter what DLC they buy or not, convenience, sets, new interesting content like BGs, IC, Morrowind zone, trials etc are all fun and fair, and allow the game to prosper. Forcing buys is not.

You can see how the focus of the game changed, game improvements, bug fixes etc are all secondary to cosmetics, new zones etc. Old DLC is often just forgotten.

No one gets my stuff, I am poor.

You do realise that nearly every other MMO out there forces you too do the exact same thing right? This model isnt new.

If people had such resistance to the notion of how expansions work (they can keep calling it a chapter but we all know these are expansions, calling it a chapter is just an excuse too overprice it) then perhaps people could of got up in arms about this in the early days.

Though I suppose outrage is a modern theme in the industry.

I dont support the model, I hate it - especially considering expansions in other games bring more content and are often cheaper by 30%, but I just find your comment somewhat - "late".

They're not even overpriced. WoW expansions legitimately cost as much as the base game did when it was brand new.

Problem with that is you can get WoW expansions for free now if you have the WoW gold

Integral1900

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

I am cancelling my preorder. I may get another as we see the developments, but for now my interest fades.

Sad to see such a promising game turn to hypermonetization, even if its not directly P2W, players should be on even turf no matter what DLC they buy or not, convenience, sets, new interesting content like BGs, IC, Morrowind zone, trials etc are all fun and fair, and allow the game to prosper. Forcing buys is not.

You can see how the focus of the game changed, game improvements, bug fixes etc are all secondary to cosmetics, new zones etc. Old DLC is often just forgotten.

No one gets my stuff, I am poor.

You do realise that nearly every other MMO out there forces you too do the exact same thing right? This model isnt new.

If people had such resistance to the notion of how expansions work (they can keep calling it a chapter but we all know these are expansions, calling it a chapter is just an excuse too overprice it) then perhaps people could of got up in arms about this in the early days.

Though I suppose outrage is a modern theme in the industry.

I dont support the model, I hate it - especially considering expansions in other games bring more content and are often cheaper by 30%, but I just find your comment somewhat - "late".

They're not even overpriced. WoW expansions legitimately cost as much as the base game did when it was brand new.

Problem with that is you can get WoW expansions for free now if you have the WoW gold

But the price you pay is that you have to play wow, that’s a stiff price to pay

That game looked terrible when it was new and it’s aged about as well as a 1980’s suit lmao

Lakashi

Integral1900 wrote: »

If you can’t upgrade existing jewelry there will be sooooo many arguments in trading, after all, if the jewelry looks the same how the heck do we tell if it can be upgraded or not? Every guild trader selling say plague doctor rings will have a load of stuff, half of which is now junk and half that can be improved. Good greif, the trolls and scam artists are going to have a field day! This is going to get toxic in a hurry unless old jewelry is marked in some realy obvious way.

Also this would mean farming up a new bunch of king slayer rings... oh god... I’m going to have to go back to fungal grotto...(sound of hysterical sobbing)... I had to do that cursed thing so many times I can do it blindfolded............

This is also why I'm bothered about not being able to decon current stuff. They will have to make it very clear which can and can't be deconned, and add a filter to filter it out. It will be a mess. Can you imagine what a guild store will look like?

witchdoctor

Lakashi wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

You must not have been playing long eh? There's a pretty big golden rule of thumb when it comes to this game, no matter what happens at all before the patch arrives, even if it's on pts for the whole cycle, NEVER base anything you prepare for on the upcoming patch until it hits. ZOS has a way of changing things literally on the last moment before the patch actually hits.

Clearly I put too much trust in the developers. It's a mistake I don't plan on making again. There are others games.

LOL.

Don't play the stock market.

crobarXIII

@ZOS_GinaBruno So what happens to any pre summerset jewelry I own If I decide to gold it out & later decide I don't want it? Would I be able to deconstruct it in hopes of getting a gold mat back or would I just be out of luck & forced to sell it to a merchant?

Septimus_Magna

Deconning current jewelry would make leveling the jewelry crafting skill line way too easy. Just buy all the useless purple rings and necklaces and decon then. Everyone and his mother would be max level in 2 hours.

With the new system there will be a healthy trade economy for at least a month. If you have the Divines equivalent for jewelry you can probably sell like crazy.

Also, you probably need to research the new traits in order to craft them. For item sets like Julianos/Hundings you need 6 traits researched. If you dont buy research scrolls from the Crown Store it will take a while to research them all.

Personally Im happy about the way its getting implemented. I think people sometimes forget its fun to work for something instead of instantly getting it.