Summerset architecture.

Grimm13

XomRhoK wrote: »

There is no chance that 3D models of the building will be redone, but ZOS can change some textures. For example they can make roof tiles made of glass, that used in armor.
It can be only on major buildings:

Or at all buildings:

I think it's pretty easy to do, and it will add uniqueness to the Summerset towns and will fit lore: "made from glass or insect wings" and "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall".

Add to this further. They could add shutters and window treatments that resemble the insect wings description. Inside areas could also have polished glass floors and other exotic materials were they are protected from the elements. That would be plausible for the outside materials being as they show.

psychotrip

Grimm13 wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

There is no chance that 3D models of the building will be redone, but ZOS can change some textures. For example they can make roof tiles made of glass, that used in armor.
It can be only on major buildings:

Or at all buildings:

I think it's pretty easy to do, and it will add uniqueness to the Summerset towns and will fit lore: "made from glass or insect wings" and "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall".

Add to this further. They could add shutters and window treatments that resemble the insect wings description. Inside areas could also have polished glass floors and other exotic materials were they are protected from the elements. That would be plausible for the outside materials being as they show.

Come on guys. We all know they're not changing anything. We've done this song and dance so many times. Remember when we thought they'd change Auridon? Or the indoril buildings all over mainland Morrowind? Not gonna happen.

Faulgor

psychotrip wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

There is no chance that 3D models of the building will be redone, but ZOS can change some textures. For example they can make roof tiles made of glass, that used in armor.
It can be only on major buildings:

Or at all buildings:

I think it's pretty easy to do, and it will add uniqueness to the Summerset towns and will fit lore: "made from glass or insect wings" and "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall".

Add to this further. They could add shutters and window treatments that resemble the insect wings description. Inside areas could also have polished glass floors and other exotic materials were they are protected from the elements. That would be plausible for the outside materials being as they show.

Come on guys. We all know they're not changing anything. We've done this song and dance so many times. Remember when we thought they'd change Auridon? Or the indoril buildings all over mainland Morrowind? Not gonna happen.

How I pleaded with them during Morrowind's PTS cycle to change the color of the guards' bonemold armor to ... well, bonemold colored instead of grey. You'd expect this to be the simplest change in the world, as we've had armor dyes since shortly after launch, but no ... they're not going to change textures.
The graphics team is most likely already working on Chapter 3.

grizzledcroc

It is curious people want it to be insane looking when that in itself is the generic aesthetic that alot of fantasy games go with. So in reality it really would have been generic of them to actually go through with it than not. They actually broke the trope of making elves have crazy looking buildings.

Mureel

I was expecting Summerset to be the Graphic Designers' Crown Jewels of Amazing Beauty. How could you hold such an important place in history, both in game and in Real Life history of an iconic game and *not* make it shine?

I shall be very disappointed if it looks like the Gold Coast.

Gross.

XomRhoK

psychotrip wrote: »

Come on guys. We all know they're not changing anything. We've done this song and dance so many times. Remember when we thought they'd change Auridon? Or the indoril buildings all over mainland Morrowind? Not gonna happen.

They definitely will not remodeling anything at this stage, cause they will need new concept, modeling work, texturing work, new models can not match surrounding objects, can block quest NPCs, scripts and so on.
But only retexturing not so time consuming and will not bring additional bugs. Anyway it's unlikely they will do so.

psychotrip

grizzledcroc wrote: »

It is curious people want it to be insane looking when that in itself is the generic aesthetic that alot of fantasy games go with. So in reality it really would have been generic of them to actually go through with it than not. They actually broke the trope of making elves have crazy looking buildings.

So..them being more "human" and "normal" is an attempt to make them unique? This is, like, the opposite of a good excuse. That's the laziest way to distinguish yourself possible. It doesn't even accomplish that, because it makes them look like just another medieval human society.

Congratulations: the altmer style looks nothing like other elves. Now they just look boring, generic, and normal. Hooray.

crjs1

I a bit disappointed, but I holding onto hope that we will see more. We have only seen a few pictures and teaser trailer.. but yeah far to generic, where is the glass!

But it still looks MILES better than Auridon, which is still one of my fav regions.

I think ZOS will have a few more surprises up thier sleaves. Altmer has been my fav race fav lore fav everything since I first started with Morrowind years and years ago so I really don’t want disappointed.

I actually like the fact of unreliable narrator - it’s realistic - but there needs to be some basis for the exaggeration, so I do hope we see more glass and crystal.

TelvanniWizard

C´mon, if we humans did this:

elves should be capable of far more. Also, [lore supports it, so, I simply don´t understand why was it so difficult to use the imagination and creativity a little bit and come out with something relly new and aweing. I think it´s all about an aesthetics mistake, a design and creativity one.

red_emu

This is just very strange to me. When you look back at Elder Scrolls art direction, you can tell that they have one of the most talented design teams with original ideas. What happened to that? They can't possibly be out of ideas?

Ostacia

Faulgor wrote: »

Wintergreen wrote: »

^ Pretty! I hope they take your advice! Maybe even add in a rainbow or three.

Did somebody say rainbow?

I LOVE it! Thank you! Someone understands me! Now, if they could make that, say, high-noon, and then gradually shade down the intensity of hue as the sun sets, with about 10 minutes of rainbow-strewn flagstones on the streets just at twilight, that'd be cool, too.

psychotrip

red_emu wrote: »

This is just very strange to me. When you look back at Elder Scrolls art direction, you can tell that they have one of the most talented design teams with original ideas. What happened to that? They can't possibly be out of ideas?

All those people left Bethesda years ago, and aren't associated with Zenimax. Yes, they ran out of ideas because they can't ride on the coat-tails of past games this time. Just look at Morrowind compared to this. All you need to do is remember that Morrowind got at least 3 distinct city-styles and Summerset only has 1.

They don't have the desire to maintain the strange, unique lore of this world. So, whenever they possibly can, they rely on "transcription errors" and "unreliable narrators" to cover up their lackluster design choices. It's absolutely pathetic.

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

C´mon, if we humans did this:

elves should be capable of far more. Also, [lore supports it, so, I simply don´t understand why was it so difficult to use the imagination and creativity a little bit and come out with something relly new and aweing. I think it´s all about an aesthetics mistake, a design and creativity one.

"Hark! What is this lunacy? What strange race of monster built this? There's nothing realistic about this at all! And why is there so much color? Where's all the gray? Madness, I say! It's like these people are making buildings out of poetry!"
- Zenimax, probably.

inespeloazul

Since we haven't really seen any of this in motion much, I'm still holding out hope that there's a more subtle implementation of the "magical" aspect of Alinor. Maybe some subtle lighting or texture effects. And frankly, I'd be okay if it's just Alinor, given that it's the capital. I doubt everyone in Summerset gets to have slaves and magic housing or magic in general (remember Vanus Galerion).

grizzledcroc

Whenever they do there lore question stream this should be asked heavily .

psychotrip

grizzledcroc wrote: »

Whenever they do there lore question stream this should be asked heavily .

You and I both know they'll ignore us.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

psychotrip wrote: »

grizzledcroc wrote: »

Whenever they do there lore question stream this should be asked heavily .

You and I both know they'll ignore us.

This very much, but it's worth trying anyway.

Casowen

If I know elves correctly, inspiration for the fractal symmetry typically comes from things otherwise known in real life as machine elves.

Something like this is what is typically seen, the radiant background with a rectangular geometric pattern, all in the golden ratio glory



The sheer color scheme is a golden ratio element, going from wave legnths of white to violet and then red in the way it does it.

And here comes the gothic elven look ESO has.



More along the Organic style that I was hoping for:
https://alexruizart.deviantart.com/art/Fantasy-Environment-1-284333793

psychotrip

Casowen wrote: »

If I know elves correctly, inspiration for the fractal symmetry typically comes from things otherwise known in real life as machine elves. https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000104068351-ciqshx-t500x500.jpg

Something like this is what is typically seen, the radiant background with a rectangular geometric pattern, all in the golden ratio glory

http://www.fractalfield.com/negentropicfields/dnawratchet.jpg

The sheer color scheme is a golden ratio element, going from wave legnths of white to violet and then red in the way it does it.

And here comes the gothic elven look ESO has.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/b6/c4/f3b6c4051798f4ed684354dfd6ea7408.jpg

More along the Organic style that I was hoping for:
https://alexruizart.deviantart.com/art/Fantasy-Environment-1-284333793

https://media.mnn.com/assets/images/2015/07/golden-ratio-aloe.jpg.653x0_q80_crop-smart.jpg

https://img00.deviantart.net/f538/i/2012/041/c/1/organic_architecture_2_by_tarrzan-d4pa8nc.jpg

The architecture of the bretons and imperials also follow specific geometric ratios and patterns, because that's how architecture works in general, and it's especially emphasized in medieval and renaissance architecture. That alone doesn't characterize the Altmer. They're supposed to take these things to an extreme beyond that of mere humans, closer to the "machine elves" you've referenced than generic fantasy humans.

Aliyavana

XomRhoK wrote: »

There is no chance that 3D models of the building will be redone, but ZOS can change some textures. For example they can make roof tiles made of glass, that used in armor.
It can be only on major buildings:

Or at all buildings:

I think it's pretty easy to do, and it will add uniqueness to the Summerset towns and will fit lore: "made from glass or insect wings" and "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall".

that looks a lot better

psychotrip

Tell me guys: does this style even look consistent with anything we’ve actually seen from the altmer before? Not talking about “unreliable narrator” stuff this time, but things we’ve actually seen within the elder scrolls universe?






Elven stuff has always had this weird blend of deliberate angles and abstract, organic shapes. What happened to all that?


Let’s not forget what the “elven style” looked like in Morrowind (yes, the glass armor in Morrowind was made by the altmer, according to the in-game dialogue and the fact that altmer own most of the glass mines in the game)




Also, this begs the question: where are the altmer getting all this malachite? It’s supposed to be volcanic glass. And yet the Summerset in this game doesn’t seem to have any volcanoes, and it’s not like Skyrim where we can assume a lot of the mountains once displayed volcanic activity. Judging by their resources, I always imagined Summerset as some sort of hot, hawaiian-esque volcanic island.

But I digress, does any of this look compatible with the supposed “real” Summerset? Does it look like the same culture even made this stuff? It’s more suited to bretons imo.

grizzledcroc

Idk there is a lot of cultures irl that have different motifs for there armor and

psychotrip wrote: »

grizzledcroc wrote: »

Whenever they do there lore question stream this should be asked heavily .

You and I both know they'll ignore us.

I did pressure them to actually respond about sheogorad last year. I kept saying it till others in the stream would not stop talking about it . Gina took notice and asked Schlick . They said they just ran out of resources to complete it :V which I wasnt very happy about lol since the mainland already lost so much explorable area and not even the big ass island could be played on.

psychotrip

grizzledcroc wrote: »

Idk there is a lot of cultures irl that have different motifs for there armor and

psychotrip wrote: »

grizzledcroc wrote: »

Whenever they do there lore question stream this should be asked heavily .

You and I both know they'll ignore us.

I did pressure them to actually respond about sheogorad last year. I kept saying it till others in the stream would not stop talking about it . Gina took notice and asked Schlick . They said they just ran out of resources to complete it :V which I wasnt very happy about lol since the mainland already lost so much explorable area and not even the big ass island could be played on.

Well then maybe there’s hope after all. Anyone know when the next stream is?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

psychotrip wrote: »

Tell me guys: does this style even look consistent with anything we’ve actually seen from the altmer before? Not talking about “unreliable narrator” stuff this time, but things we’ve actually seen within the elder scrolls universe?

No; even in ESO the armor tends to have the stylized wing motifs and sweeping lines. Even in Auridon the architecture is all arches and elegant shapes, while the buildings they've shown us for Summerset are too blocky and busy in comparison.

psychotrip

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Tell me guys: does this style even look consistent with anything we’ve actually seen from the altmer before? Not talking about “unreliable narrator” stuff this time, but things we’ve actually seen within the elder scrolls universe?

No; even in ESO the armor tends to have the stylized wing motifs and sweeping lines. Even in Auridon the architecture is all arches and elegant shapes, while the buildings they've shown us for Summerset are too blocky and busy in comparison.

I just can’t wrap my head around their reasoning for this bizarre design

MLGProPlayer

psychotrip wrote: »

Tell me guys: does this style even look consistent with anything we’ve actually seen from the altmer before? Not talking about “unreliable narrator” stuff this time, but things we’ve actually seen within the elder scrolls universe?






Elven stuff has always had this weird blend of deliberate angles and abstract, organic shapes. What happened to all that?


Let’s not forget what the “elven style” looked like in Morrowind (yes, the glass armor in Morrowind was made by the altmer, according to the in-game dialogue and the fact that altmer own most of the glass mines in the game)




Also, this begs the question: where are the altmer getting all this malachite? It’s supposed to be volcanic glass. And yet the Summerset in this game doesn’t seem to have any volcanoes, and it’s not like Skyrim where we can assume a lot of the mountains once displayed volcanic activity. Judging by their resources, I always imagined Summerset as some sort of hot, hawaiian-esque volcanic island.

But I digress, does any of this look compatible with the supposed “real” Summerset? Does it look like the same culture even made this stuff? It’s more suited to bretons imo.

It's consistent with the Ayleid architecture we've seen in Oblivion and ESO.

inespeloazul

psychotrip wrote: »

Tell me guys: does this style even look consistent with anything we’ve actually seen from the altmer before? Not talking about “unreliable narrator” stuff this time, but things we’ve actually seen within the elder scrolls universe?

Like...you can still totally see some of those motifs incorporated into the buildings and even in Crystal Tower's design, but the way they're implemented make it seem like they're Altmeri inspired buildings and not authentic Altmeri architecture. Does that make sense? Outside of it being European-styled stuff, it's also one of the reasons I personally see it being more fitting for Bretons (maybe the city of Jehanna?) than Altmer.

psychotrip

inespeloazul wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Tell me guys: does this style even look consistent with anything we’ve actually seen from the altmer before? Not talking about “unreliable narrator” stuff this time, but things we’ve actually seen within the elder scrolls universe?

Like...you can still totally see some of those motifs incorporated into the buildings and even in Crystal Tower's design, but the way they're implemented make it seem like they're Altmeri inspired buildings and not authentic Altmeri architecture. Does that make sense? Outside of it being European-styled stuff, it's also one of the reasons I personally see it being more fitting for Bretons (maybe the city of Jehanna?) than Altmer.

Right. If you stretch it you can see similarities between almost any art style, but here it’s just so starkly inconsistent.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Tell me guys: does this style even look consistent with anything we’ve actually seen from the altmer before? Not talking about “unreliable narrator” stuff this time, but things we’ve actually seen within the elder scrolls universe?






Elven stuff has always had this weird blend of deliberate angles and abstract, organic shapes. What happened to all that?


Let’s not forget what the “elven style” looked like in Morrowind (yes, the glass armor in Morrowind was made by the altmer, according to the in-game dialogue and the fact that altmer own most of the glass mines in the game)




Also, this begs the question: where are the altmer getting all this malachite? It’s supposed to be volcanic glass. And yet the Summerset in this game doesn’t seem to have any volcanoes, and it’s not like Skyrim where we can assume a lot of the mountains once displayed volcanic activity. Judging by their resources, I always imagined Summerset as some sort of hot, hawaiian-esque volcanic island.

But I digress, does any of this look compatible with the supposed “real” Summerset? Does it look like the same culture even made this stuff? It’s more suited to bretons imo.

It's consistent with the Ayleid architecture we've seen in Oblivion and ESO.

You really think this looks closer to ayleid than it does breton or imperial? And do you really think this matches with the armor and weapons we’ve seen in previous games? Where’s the organic, abstract shapes? The bird motifs? The curves?

Do you really think this



looks more like this



than this?

Casowen

psychotrip wrote: »

The architecture of the bretons and imperials also follow specific geometric ratios and patterns, because that's how architecture works in general, and it's especially emphasized in medieval and renaissance architecture. That alone doesn't characterize the Altmer. They're supposed to take these things to an extreme beyond that of mere humans, closer to the "machine elves" you've referenced than generic fantasy humans.

Thats what I was trying to get at, and if I had to narrow it down to more specific patterns, then I would say its "liquid organic" and succulent in a sort of mixture, with that machine elf architecture as a base with varying degrees of minimalism, to the opposite of minimalism, to an almost space-age looking style which is known for utilizing another favorite of mine, Rhombic 3D symmetry, which isnt easy to pull off.

More of that wonderful Wuxia I just love, I would probably get into those chinese drama's if only I could get them better, but if i can best anime, china is next. I wonder where I have seen similar in ESO







There are some ancient Palestinian designs I remember seeing in a book somewhere, its on mind now, and I just cant get it out.

Kajuratus

Vehlir wrote: »

Alright that one actually made me laugh lol

All jokes aside it's really the start of an alarming trend. You're seeing all of the magnificent, wondrous, unique & mind blowing aspects of TES lore get simplified and stripped of their unique character, with nothing more then a "Transcription Error" level excuse to justify it.

It all tends to revolves around how much effort they are willing to put in, and they adjust the established lore around that after the fact. Sometimes they will adhere to the lore, and other times disregard it. And it usually can be tied into how much effort it will require to do something. A good example is this last Morrowind Chapter.

Seyda Neen, while we all love it, had no business existing, it shouldn't have even be close to existing. But it was a MAJOR nostalgia hit that was sure to sell copies when shown in trailers, and VERY easy to recreate, so exceptions are made for that in the lore. OK fine, it probably shouldn't exist, but w/e we can look the other way. BUT, having said that, we now absolutely HAVE to stick to the part of the lore where they can't put forth the effort for a full sized, amazing Vivec City. Oh no, NOW we suddenly HAVE to adhre to the lore so we can only have 2 half assed Cantons. They selectively pick and choose the parts to "adhere" to, and then opt to adjust and bypass other parts when it'd otherwise prove difficult.

It's the ultimate "Shield" they can use to excuse design choices. When they don't have the confidence to go all the way on something they can dig up a part of the lore that'll justify it. And conversly, when they want to do something that is different then said lore, they take advantage of the "Unreliable Narrator" nature of the lore, and bring in the adjustments and retcons.

At the end of the day, they can get away with another super lame "Transcription Error" but we're still stuck with a super generic Summerset. It used to be a place TES fans dreamt about seeing one day and now it's really nothing discernible from any other high fantasy, Elf oriented city. Yes, quests and writing can and probably will be good (They've been really good since ESO:Morrowind imo) but art style, architecture and culture used to be really huge parts of the series. Parts that separated it from every other franchise. Now it's slowly starting to look like nearly every other franchise.

And with ESO's relatively quick pace of adding content as compared to the much slower singeplayer counterparts it makes you fear for the future a little bit. How long till the miraculous "Moving Forest Cities" of Valenwood also get reduced to "Sorry unreliable narrators! But hey enjoy this big ass basic forest!". Or the deep Blackmarsh underground insect networks also get let down as "Sorry must have been disillusioned foreigners!"?

Yes, we get "Word of mouth" and unreliable narrators are a thing but when they are starting to get used frequently to peel back the once fascinating, mysterious skin we all loved with TES, to reveal a generic, SAFE and indiscernible center, that kind of sucks.


I'll say this, It doesn't look persay "Bad", just it's not what Summerset could or realistically should have been. And while disappointed like so many, I'll still probably enjoy the the DLC.

With that being said, things like this make me hope that whenever TES does choose to tackle Akavir, ESO should NOT be the ones to get the first go at it. They may be able to "Get away" with continuously letting down with "Transcription Errors" but it's still nonetheless sad to see the once mysterious and mind boggling aspects of TES lore get whisked away.

The reality is this will now be the "Canon" and the flair, character and marvel that used to surround Summerset has died with it.

Welcome to the "Pretty, but we took no risks here" Isles.

Couldn't have put it better myself. I'd love to give this an Insightful, Agree and Awesome all at the same time, but here, have an insightful.

JD2013

Nothing will ever match anyone's headcanon. Which is why headcanon is exactly that.

I think Summerset looks fine. The white stone very likely would glimmer in the sun.

It has impossibly tall looking ramparts and towers.

I also think people might have missed the part in lore where Altmer are generally quite conservative and not really prone to whimsy and bouts of fancy. Their land probably would not look romantic and poetic and the such. I imagine it would be functional.

Artaeum also looks quite interesting.