Summerset architecture.

Dracane

The architecture seen in the trailers was formidable. I'm happy, that they distanced themselves abit from the tradition fantasy elven architecture, as it was seen on Auridon. Alinor's architecture has much more character and looks unique.

However. The books clearly spoke about light being gathered in Alinor. And even the datamined ESO questlines from the beta did. [snip]
It's not a complete failure, but also not what it should be. Rich was clearly trying to give justifications/excuses for why Alinor looks generic and boring. Don't get fooled.

[edited for bashing]

Faulgor

Valkysas154 wrote: »

Dose that look like a city of lights to you?

It looks like Irithyll to me, except without the ominous atmosphere.



I mean, I really, really like Dark Souls' style. But it's not what I expect for Altmer.

Pheefs

Rouven wrote: »

One thing that pops into my eye right away ... how come we already see ruins, half broken pillars? Not just on their own but right next to the town.

To me that does not jive with the notion of proud elf at the height of civilization.

its decorative, y'know like a picturesque ruin at the bottom of the garden...
we could keep a hermit and a turtle in there!

Recremen

psychotrip wrote: »

inespeloazul wrote: »

You can clearly see what looks like a huge constellation in the sky above Artaeum, and at first I was hopeful about it but the main island is missing anything that points toward the old concept. There's a good chance we get a downscaled version of it though, at the very least within Artaeum.

Anyways, I agree with @Recremen
I wouldn't be worried about this being what any future TES game set in Alinor follows. One need look no further than Windhelm to realize that what we see in this game will definitely not be what we see in another. For a main game example, see Bloodmoon's Solstheim vs Dragonborn's. Of course, this is assuming Bethesda would want to bother trying anything more interesting with it lol

I want to believe this, I really do. But I honestly can't see Zenimax creating this whole-cloth without any coordination from Bethesda. At the very least, if this Summerset is completely non-canon, then that will just confuse things even more. Imagine what'll happen when a singleplayer game is set in Alinor, and people complain that it looks nothing like the "real" Summerset in ESO.

I honestly think this is canon now, but I hope I'm wrong.

This is canon, but it's just a version of Summerset, and it looks quite amazing for what they can put out feasibly. We can't expect every blade of grass to be a faithful representation of the exact lore-abiding world.

Dracane

Recremen wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

inespeloazul wrote: »

You can clearly see what looks like a huge constellation in the sky above Artaeum, and at first I was hopeful about it but the main island is missing anything that points toward the old concept. There's a good chance we get a downscaled version of it though, at the very least within Artaeum.

Anyways, I agree with @Recremen
I wouldn't be worried about this being what any future TES game set in Alinor follows. One need look no further than Windhelm to realize that what we see in this game will definitely not be what we see in another. For a main game example, see Bloodmoon's Solstheim vs Dragonborn's. Of course, this is assuming Bethesda would want to bother trying anything more interesting with it lol

I want to believe this, I really do. But I honestly can't see Zenimax creating this whole-cloth without any coordination from Bethesda. At the very least, if this Summerset is completely non-canon, then that will just confuse things even more. Imagine what'll happen when a singleplayer game is set in Alinor, and people complain that it looks nothing like the "real" Summerset in ESO.

I honestly think this is canon now, but I hope I'm wrong.

This is canon, but it's just a version of Summerset, and it looks quite amazing for what they can put out feasibly. We can't expect every blade of grass to be a faithful representation of the exact lore-abiding world.

But would it have been too much to ask, for them to put one single tower in there that looks similar to what was described in the books ?

Lake

I have zero connection or knowledge about E.S. or Summerset & this is the only game I played - so I don't care about lore.

It just looks gray and boring to me visually, like the whole of Auridon.

dovakiin5574

Idk looks pretty shimmery to me imho. Might be marble or quartz stone instead of "regular stone"

I think its pretty

psychotrip

Lake wrote: »

I have zero connection or knowledge about E.S. or Summerset & this is the only game I played - so I don't care about lore.

It just looks gray and boring to me visually, like the whole of Auridon.

I'm actually sorry that this is your first exposure to Summerset dude. I totally understand that you're not into the lore, but just remember this could've been so much cooler.

Malthorne

Recremen wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

inespeloazul wrote: »

You can clearly see what looks like a huge constellation in the sky above Artaeum, and at first I was hopeful about it but the main island is missing anything that points toward the old concept. There's a good chance we get a downscaled version of it though, at the very least within Artaeum.

Anyways, I agree with @Recremen
I wouldn't be worried about this being what any future TES game set in Alinor follows. One need look no further than Windhelm to realize that what we see in this game will definitely not be what we see in another. For a main game example, see Bloodmoon's Solstheim vs Dragonborn's. Of course, this is assuming Bethesda would want to bother trying anything more interesting with it lol

I want to believe this, I really do. But I honestly can't see Zenimax creating this whole-cloth without any coordination from Bethesda. At the very least, if this Summerset is completely non-canon, then that will just confuse things even more. Imagine what'll happen when a singleplayer game is set in Alinor, and people complain that it looks nothing like the "real" Summerset in ESO.

I honestly think this is canon now, but I hope I'm wrong.

This is canon, but it's just a version of Summerset, and it looks quite amazing for what they can put out feasibly. We can't expect every blade of grass to be a faithful representation of the exact lore-abiding world.

[snip] When they finally give us [snip] Elyswer how would Khajiit lore fans feel if the architecture was culturally inappropriate and modeled after European style buildings?

[edited for bashing]

Hymzir

The architecture... That was the biggest thing I got out of the presentation yesterday, and apparently am not the only one to have apprehension towards the style chosen.

Others have voiced many of the same thoughts and concerns I have in this thread and several others, saving me the trouble of writing a lengthy post about it. But even so, I do feel the need to vent at least a little bit.

So for the record, am seriously disappointed in the design direction chosen. It looks like a ripoff clone of a Disney castle. I mean, just google Disney Castle and what you get is images that could be lifted straight from the trailer.

On a wholly objective level, most of it looks okay, I think. It's not bad, just really boring. I too feel that this stuff would've fitted High Rock much better than Summerset...

And what's with all that grey concrete stuff? Is that really the "best" that the high elves can come up with? And what about the the ZOS fixation with broken and busted architecture? It just ends feeling off. Especially when it comes to the "perfection" driven Altmer, but that just is their thing. Everything is dingy, and crumbling and busted up in the ZOSverse, so not much one can do about that but to learn to live with it.

The grayish concrete bunkers, however, and the drab looking textures is definitely not what I would associate with High Elf architecture.

[snip] I was hoping for something better, I was hoping for something imaginative, something bold and unique and distinct. I was expecting a bog standard iteration of High Elf stuff (i.e. more stuff in the veins of what we see in Auridon) but what we got is even less inspiring. Hell... Even a rehash of the Ayleid stuff would've been preferable to what we see in the trailer.

The clip featuring some of the concept art clearly shows that they did put work and effort into the designs, but why on earth did they chose to go with clearly European design features? Why didn't they try something alien, something utterly different and unique? I find it really difficult to believe that they do not have the talent available. ZOS is not a nickel and dime operation after all, and they did pretty good job with coming up with the Orsimer style, and the whole southeast asian flavored Khajiti design. Was it really too much to hope, that they would've come up with something unique for the Altmer as well?

After all these years, finally having an official game where I get to revisit Summerset, what is in store for us is truly disappointing. Even the various fan created mods did a better job at it. Just truly sad.

[edited for bashing]

Recremen

Dracane wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

inespeloazul wrote: »

You can clearly see what looks like a huge constellation in the sky above Artaeum, and at first I was hopeful about it but the main island is missing anything that points toward the old concept. There's a good chance we get a downscaled version of it though, at the very least within Artaeum.

Anyways, I agree with @Recremen
I wouldn't be worried about this being what any future TES game set in Alinor follows. One need look no further than Windhelm to realize that what we see in this game will definitely not be what we see in another. For a main game example, see Bloodmoon's Solstheim vs Dragonborn's. Of course, this is assuming Bethesda would want to bother trying anything more interesting with it lol

I want to believe this, I really do. But I honestly can't see Zenimax creating this whole-cloth without any coordination from Bethesda. At the very least, if this Summerset is completely non-canon, then that will just confuse things even more. Imagine what'll happen when a singleplayer game is set in Alinor, and people complain that it looks nothing like the "real" Summerset in ESO.

I honestly think this is canon now, but I hope I'm wrong.

This is canon, but it's just a version of Summerset, and it looks quite amazing for what they can put out feasibly. We can't expect every blade of grass to be a faithful representation of the exact lore-abiding world.

But would it have been too much to ask, for them to put one single tower in there that looks similar to what was described in the books ?

@Dracane I completely agree and hope there is at least one tower that looks like said description. We haven't seen the whole island or even the whole of one city yet, though, so it seems to me like people are complaining that EVERY building isn't like that. Here's hoping we have at least a little bit of that high mysticism showing.

OtarTheMad

Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall."

I think a lot of us missed the obvious, @WhiteCoatSyndrome is right, seems he is complaining and @TheNuminous1 is also right, seems like the description adds up to what ZOS made, especially the part glossed over. He says "drapped across its STONES". I'll give ZOS some credit, they might have done this correctly.

Okiir

Hymzir wrote: »

The architecture... That was the biggest thing I got out of the presentation yesterday, and apparently am not the only one to have apprehension towards the style chosen.

Others have voiced many of the same thoughts and concerns I have in this thread and several others, saving me the trouble of writing a lengthy post about it. But even so, I do feel the need to vent at least a little bit.

So for the record, am seriously disappointed in the design direction chosen. It looks like a ripoff clone of a Disney castle. I mean, just google Disney Castle and what you get is images that could be lifted straight from the trailer.

On a wholly objective level, most of it looks okay, I think. It's not bad, just really boring. I too feel that this stuff would've fitted High Rock much better than Summerset...

And what's with all that grey concrete stuff? Is that really the "best" that the high elves can come up with? And what about the the ZOS fixation with broken and busted architecture? It just ends feeling off. Especially when it comes to the "perfection" driven Altmer, but that just is their thing. Everything is dingy, and crumbling and busted up in the ZOSverse, so not much one can do about that but to learn to live with it.

The grayish concrete bunkers, however, and the drab looking textures is definitely not what I would associate with High Elf architecture.

[snip] I was hoping for something better, I was hoping for something imaginative, something bold and unique and distinct. I was expecting a bog standard iteration of High Elf stuff (i.e. more stuff in the veins of what we see in Auridon) but what we got is even less inspiring. Hell... Even a rehash of the Ayleid stuff would've been preferable to what we see in the trailer.

The clip featuring some of the concept art clearly shows that they did put work and effort into the designs, but why on earth did they chose to go with clearly European design features? Why didn't they try something alien, something utterly different and unique? I find it really difficult to believe that they do not have the talent available. ZOS is not a nickel and dime operation after all, and they did pretty good job with coming up with the Orsimer style, and the whole southeast asian flavored Khajiti design. Was it really too much to hope, that they would've come up with something unique for the Altmer as well?

After all these years, finally having an official game where I get to revisit Summerset, what is in store for us is truly disappointing. Even the various fan created mods did a better job at it. Just truly sad.

Completely agree.

What's sad is that on the early zone concept it seems like they were actually going for a glass/crystal Alinor. A concept that apparently got scrapped sometime during development.
(These maps also existed for Wrothgar, Murkmire, and Hew's Bane, and are made early in development)



Also, in the top image you can see a distinct difference in architecture between Alinor and Shimmerene, like in Vvardenfell where every town/city had a unique architectural style. Now instead we get 3 generic, indistinguishable cities.

[edited to remove quote]

Ostacia

^ I interpret that as rainbows draped across its stones....maybe we'll get a rainbow or two? *little match girl face*

Dracane

Okiir wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

The architecture... That was the biggest thing I got out of the presentation yesterday, and apparently am not the only one to have apprehension towards the style chosen.

Others have voiced many of the same thoughts and concerns I have in this thread and several others, saving me the trouble of writing a lengthy post about it. But even so, I do feel the need to vent at least a little bit.

So for the record, am seriously disappointed in the design direction chosen. It looks like a ripoff clone of a Disney castle. I mean, just google Disney Castle and what you get is images that could be lifted straight from the trailer.

On a wholly objective level, most of it looks okay, I think. It's not bad, just really boring. I too feel that this stuff would've fitted High Rock much better than Summerset...

And what's with all that grey concrete stuff? Is that really the "best" that the high elves can come up with? And what about the the ZOS fixation with broken and busted architecture? It just ends feeling off. Especially when it comes to the "perfection" driven Altmer, but that just is their thing. Everything is dingy, and crumbling and busted up in the ZOSverse, so not much one can do about that but to learn to live with it.

The grayish concrete bunkers, however, and the drab looking textures is definitely not what I would associate with High Elf architecture.

[snip] I was hoping for something better, I was hoping for something imaginative, something bold and unique and distinct. I was expecting a bog standard iteration of High Elf stuff (i.e. more stuff in the veins of what we see in Auridon) but what we got is even less inspiring. Hell... Even a rehash of the Ayleid stuff would've been preferable to what we see in the trailer.

The clip featuring some of the concept art clearly shows that they did put work and effort into the designs, but why on earth did they chose to go with clearly European design features? Why didn't they try something alien, something utterly different and unique? I find it really difficult to believe that they do not have the talent available. ZOS is not a nickel and dime operation after all, and they did pretty good job with coming up with the Orsimer style, and the whole southeast asian flavored Khajiti design. Was it really too much to hope, that they would've come up with something unique for the Altmer as well?

After all these years, finally having an official game where I get to revisit Summerset, what is in store for us is truly disappointing. Even the various fan created mods did a better job at it. Just truly sad.

Completely agree.

What's sad is that on the early zone concept it seems like they were actually going for a glass/crystal Alinor. A concept that apparently got scrapped sometime during development.
(These maps also existed for Wrothgar, Murkmire, and Hew's Bane, and are made early in development)



Also, in the top image you can see a distinct difference in architecture between Alinor and Shimmerene, like in Vvardenfell where every town/city had a unique architectural style. Now instead we get 3 generic, indistinguishable cities.

I wonder, are we 100% certain that the city that was constantly shown in the trailers is Alinor ? I'm certain it is. But perhaps there remains a tiny chance, that it was just another of the major cities and that Alinor remains hidden as a big surprise ?

[edited to remove quote]

psychotrip

Okiir wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

The architecture... That was the biggest thing I got out of the presentation yesterday, and apparently am not the only one to have apprehension towards the style chosen.

Others have voiced many of the same thoughts and concerns I have in this thread and several others, saving me the trouble of writing a lengthy post about it. But even so, I do feel the need to vent at least a little bit.

So for the record, am seriously disappointed in the design direction chosen. It looks like a ripoff clone of a Disney castle. I mean, just google Disney Castle and what you get is images that could be lifted straight from the trailer.

On a wholly objective level, most of it looks okay, I think. It's not bad, just really boring. I too feel that this stuff would've fitted High Rock much better than Summerset...

And what's with all that grey concrete stuff? Is that really the "best" that the high elves can come up with? And what about the the ZOS fixation with broken and busted architecture? It just ends feeling off. Especially when it comes to the "perfection" driven Altmer, but that just is their thing. Everything is dingy, and crumbling and busted up in the ZOSverse, so not much one can do about that but to learn to live with it.

The grayish concrete bunkers, however, and the drab looking textures is definitely not what I would associate with High Elf architecture.

[snip] I was hoping for something better, I was hoping for something imaginative, something bold and unique and distinct. I was expecting a bog standard iteration of High Elf stuff (i.e. more stuff in the veins of what we see in Auridon) but what we got is even less inspiring. Hell... Even a rehash of the Ayleid stuff would've been preferable to what we see in the trailer.

The clip featuring some of the concept art clearly shows that they did put work and effort into the designs, but why on earth did they chose to go with clearly European design features? Why didn't they try something alien, something utterly different and unique? I find it really difficult to believe that they do not have the talent available. ZOS is not a nickel and dime operation after all, and they did pretty good job with coming up with the Orsimer style, and the whole southeast asian flavored Khajiti design. Was it really too much to hope, that they would've come up with something unique for the Altmer as well?

After all these years, finally having an official game where I get to revisit Summerset, what is in store for us is truly disappointing. Even the various fan created mods did a better job at it. Just truly sad.

Completely agree.

What's sad is that on the early zone concept it seems like they were actually going for a glass/crystal Alinor. A concept that apparently got scrapped sometime during development.
(These maps also existed for Wrothgar, Murkmire, and Hew's Bane, and are made early in development)



Also, in the top image you can see a distinct difference in architecture between Alinor and Shimmerene, like in Vvardenfell where every town/city had a unique architectural style. Now instead we get 3 generic, indistinguishable cities.

This is almost definitely what happened the more I think abut it.

There's no way they thought going from Morrowind, with a ton of different building styles, to a Summerset dlc with ONE was acceptable. The image you posted clearly shows that Alinor was intended to look more like the more interesting lore, but it was scrapped for some reason. Now I'm wondering if each city was meant to look more unique. This is just depressing.

[edited to remove quote]

NeroBad

I wrote in an other discussion, that myself also is a little disappointed visually. I have to accept that it is realistic compared to the known existing world (Nirn). The exaggeration is very typical for travelers and nationalist, so a more delicate architecture could be insect wing like, and beautiful glass windows could make a name as glass city (true it has big glasses).

In the timeline of TES1-TES4 Summerset Isle was part of the Empire for centuries. It would be unrealistic that the main province Cyrodiil would be that behind architecturally for that long.

Also the Clockwork City for me was visually striking(and lived up to its reputation), it should be (with Artaeum) the most advanced/magical place. Although It would have been cool to see a not European architecture for a mer race.

Also how do we now they showed all the cities, or even more then two (Alinor and Cloudrest)? In the Morrowind gameplay trailer they didn't showed Balmora, which is my favorite one in that zone.

And as previously mentioned, it could be changed for future games. Windhelm the ancient city is the perfect example.

I know its maybe a bad thing but for now I will accept it as it is, hoping for some positive disappointment when I will see the zone as whole.

Okiir

NeroBad wrote: »

Also how do we now they showed all the cities

There are images of each city here, under "Explore Summerset"
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/updates/chapter/summerset

If I'm not mistaken, Alinor, Shimmerene, and Lillandril are cities, while Cloudrest is a Trial.

psychotrip

NeroBad wrote: »

I wrote in an other discussion, that myself also is a little disappointed visually. I have to accept that it is realistic compared to the known existing world (Nirn). The exaggeration is very typical for travelers and nationalist, so a more delicate architecture could be insect wing like, and beautiful glass windows could make a name as glass city (true it has big glasses).

Zenimax still had a choice on how "realistic" past portrayals would be. They chose to go with the most mundane, boring interpretation possible.

In the timeline of TES1-TES4 Summerset Isle was part of the Empire for centuries. It would be unrealistic that the main province Cyrodiil would be that behind architecturally for that long.

This is already explained in the lore. Tiber Septim never intended to even attack Summerset, because he knew they were too advanced and there was little strategic purpose in conquering them. In the end, he had to use a literal god (numidium) to defeat them. Are we really supposed to believe that THIS is the nation that could only be defeated by a god?

Also how do we now they showed all the cities, or even more then two (Alinor and Cloudrest). In the Morrowind gameplay trailer they didn't showed Balmora, which is my favorite one in that zone.

People have been posting images from several of the cities, including Alinor, Cloudrest, and Shimmerene. All of them share the same style.

And as previously mentioned, it could be changed for future games. Windhelm the ancient city is the perfect example.

This isn't a small, genuine mistake like the Windehelm bridge. This is an entire zone we've never seen before. The different Zenimax teams, including Bethesda, meet at least once per year to share what everyone's working on.

Bethesda likely knew about this way ahead of time, and I can't imagine them accepting this version of Summerset unless they were okay with it. We're not going to see the canon of ESO and the mainline series split into two distinct branches. That just doesn't make sense from a marketing perspective. This is Summerset from now on.

CromulentForumID

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

You guys really need to chill down a bit. We saw 30 seconds of gameplay action, and already you're pulling everything apart down to the last atom.

Could we /at least/ wait until it is on the PTS so we can actually see it for ourselves in its entirety before bringing on the sour grapes, hm?

What does playing it have to do with lore, culture, or Zenimax’s choice to interpret the altmer in the most mundane manner possible? Will the pts somehow change the world
itself?

It's a little pretentious to think you can judge an entire chapter's worth of lore, culture and racial themes from 30 seconds of fast paced video snippets, methinks.

At the very least, they trashed everything they designed for the summerset before the game launched. Remember that old summerset datamine? So many amazing ideas. Where are the varlines? The elemental slaves tending the land? The giant orrery in the sky that powers the island? It only takes 30 seconds to see that all that is gone.

How can I expect the altmer to be anywhere near as advanced as they were built up
to be when their cities are barely more impressive than an imperial’s?

Were any of those things more than just text descriptions of the design, or some concept art? Was any world building done at all?

If so, then yeah, it is a sad thing they abandoned it. But what if it turned out all of those ideas were just too difficult or expensive to implement?

I mean, in general, it's really easy to write cool things down on paper. It gets a little more difficult when you have to make sure that things can be played on 3 different platforms with varying qualities of connection to the game servers.

psychotrip

CromulentForumID wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

You guys really need to chill down a bit. We saw 30 seconds of gameplay action, and already you're pulling everything apart down to the last atom.

Could we /at least/ wait until it is on the PTS so we can actually see it for ourselves in its entirety before bringing on the sour grapes, hm?

What does playing it have to do with lore, culture, or Zenimax’s choice to interpret the altmer in the most mundane manner possible? Will the pts somehow change the world
itself?

It's a little pretentious to think you can judge an entire chapter's worth of lore, culture and racial themes from 30 seconds of fast paced video snippets, methinks.

At the very least, they trashed everything they designed for the summerset before the game launched. Remember that old summerset datamine? So many amazing ideas. Where are the varlines? The elemental slaves tending the land? The giant orrery in the sky that powers the island? It only takes 30 seconds to see that all that is gone.

How can I expect the altmer to be anywhere near as advanced as they were built up
to be when their cities are barely more impressive than an imperial’s?

Were any of those things more than just text descriptions of the design, or some concept art? Was any world building done at all?

If so, then yeah, it is a sad thing they abandoned it. But what if it turned out all of those ideas were just too difficult or expensive to implement?

I mean, in general, it's really easy to write cool things down on paper. It gets a little more difficult when you have to make sure that things can be played on 3 different platforms with varying qualities of connection to the game servers.

The "in-game engines can't handle it" argument falls apart when you see what they did with Artaeum. Or what they did with Valenwood (which isn't perfect but a hell of a lot more interesting than anything in Summerset). It's not a matter of engine limitations, but creativity.

Either way, if ZOS couldn't handle it, they shouldn't have done it, because now this is canon. This is the supposedly super-advanced culture we've been waiting to see. This is the nation Tiber Septim couldn't conquer without a giant robot god. Turns out it's just a minor step above Cyrodiil.

And let's not forget that all the cities look the same, making it a step below the last chapter in terms of art design.

Why are there crumbling ruins in the middle of towns? The Altmer are all about perfection and preservation. Even in the livestream, the developers say this.

Why is everything gray stone? Is that the best the Altmer could do? Why does Zenimax always seem to default to the color gray when they can't think of anything more creative?

None of this has anything to do with engine limitations.

NeroBad

Okiir Thanks for the link, now I'm very disappointed

psychotrip I understand your anger, and don't forget to vote with your wallet.

I'm a noob and can't quote like you did but, for the first one segment, I meant that it is practical and understandable to build with stone (but as I wrote that European style is also disappointing for me). I excepted a more unique style too.

For the second one, yeah the Numidium was needed for taking SI, but as for taking down the USA militarily one would need also godlike technologies, although their architecture is not that great (I know Alinor is more ancient still ancient is not always advanced visually) . And they were invaded non the less, and for more then 3 centuries.

For the Fourth Windhelm is a nearly pure stone city exterior wise in Skyrim, and nearly no same pixel with Riften. In ESO they are very very similar, with wooden architecture. (Also they are very fantasy viking like in ESO , and In Skyrim they more rustic, and have their own style with few Norse inspiration).

But do something which distract you from this negative experience. You wrote your opinion (more then once) which is good, but I think it is not healthy to stay on this topic if it is that painful for you. Gaming is for fun, and enjoyment if they ripped your enjoyment entirely, you should switch to something what you can enjoy.

Parasaurolophus

Casowen

I feel I need to post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrlNSGbgrlQ

This is what I meant by "more organic"

MLGProPlayer

I think the architecture is great.

People say it looks "too human" but you forget that human architecture was derived from elven architecture. And Summerset definitely looks like a cleaner, more refined version of the Breton architecture we've seen in the game.

psychotrip

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I think the architecture is great.

People say it looks "too human" but you forget that human architecture was derived from elven architecture. And Summerset definitely looks like a cleaner, more refined version of the Breton architecture we've seen in the game.

It didn't have to be derived so clearly and obviously though. I thought bretons and imperials just learned the basics of architecture and engineering from altmer, not that they completely co-opted their style.

I've been wondering this for a while: why are the altmer, the supposed "pure elven race", so much closer to humans than their elven cousins? I can't wrap my head around the fact that all this time, all that talk about altmer culture and technology being so advanced and better than humans was just...this.



Are sun birds even a thing anymore? Or is that just another "exaggeration"? It just feels like they sucked out all the cool, interesting aspects of altmer culture and replaced it with yet another vaguely european stand-in.

zadrotscrolls wrote: »

I see what you're going for, but nah. If we ever see Akavir, the whole thing will likely be a copy-paste of Japan, and the tsaesci will be humans, because all that talk of them as snake-men was just an "exaggeration".

The frost demons will end up just being a tiny village of frost atronachs, and the tang mo will be 1 dimensional underdogs fighting against the evil tsaesci empire that wants to take over the world (of course).

Ka Po Tun will literally just be an offshoot of khajiit, and Tosh'Raka won't be a "tiger-dragon" at all. He'll just be a khajiit on a throne wearing dragonbone armor. Tosh'Raka transforming into a dragon was just symbolic, you see.

NeroBad wrote: »

Okiir Thanks for the link, now I'm very disappointed

psychotrip I understand your anger, and don't forget to vote with your wallet.

I'm a noob and can't quote like you did but, for the first one segment, I meant that it is practical and understandable to build with stone (but as I wrote that European style is also disappointing for me). I excepted a more unique style too.

For the second one, yeah the Numidium was needed for taking SI, but as for taking down the USA militarily one would need also godlike technologies, although their architecture is not that great (I know Alinor is more ancient still ancient is not always advanced visually) . And they were invaded non the less, and for more then 3 centuries.

For the Fourth Windhelm is a nearly pure stone city exterior wise in Skyrim, and nearly no same pixel with Riften. In ESO they are very very similar, with wooden architecture. (Also they are very fantasy viking like in ESO , and In Skyrim they more rustic, and have their own style with few Norse inspiration).

But do something which distract you from this negative experience. You wrote your opinion (more then once) which is good, but I think it is not healthy to stay on this topic if it is that painful for you. Gaming is for fun, and enjoyment if they ripped your enjoyment entirely, you should switch to something what you can enjoy.

Pragmatic just doesn't feel altmer to me though. I never saw them as this bland or low-tech. I never saw their cities as gray stone castles, more reminiscent of Skingrad than anything elven. They're supposed to be perfectionists, and yet there's crumbling ruins in the middle of their towns and all over their sacred land. Everything that made them my favorite race seems to be gone. First in Auridon, now this.

I appreciate you dude. Believe it or not, I'm not this much of an angry nerd in real life. Even other franchises I'm a part of don't get me as worked up as this one. Normally I'm pretty casual about this stuff. The problem is, not only did this franchise define the latter half of my childhood, my whole career was basically launched by this game.

For me, this is like growing up with The Lord Of The Rings, and then a new book comes out saying Rivendell was just Italy this whole time, and anything contradicting that was just an exaggeration. So yes, this is the one series that does make me into a bit of a ***, because I've been part of this community for most of my life.

I guess I'm just realizing I don't like The Elder Scrolls anymore. The version of it I liked doesn't exist anymore, and this was just the final nail in the coffin. I don't even know what I'm going to play anymore haha. I play a ton of games, but my defaults have always been the ES series. No one else is really making open world sandbox RPGs like Bethesda.

Casowen wrote: »

I feel I need to post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrlNSGbgrlQ

This is what I meant by "more organic"

This all looks awesome.

Here's what I always imagined Alinor looked like:

CromulentForumID

psychotrip wrote: »

CromulentForumID wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

You guys really need to chill down a bit. We saw 30 seconds of gameplay action, and already you're pulling everything apart down to the last atom.

Could we /at least/ wait until it is on the PTS so we can actually see it for ourselves in its entirety before bringing on the sour grapes, hm?

What does playing it have to do with lore, culture, or Zenimax’s choice to interpret the altmer in the most mundane manner possible? Will the pts somehow change the world
itself?

It's a little pretentious to think you can judge an entire chapter's worth of lore, culture and racial themes from 30 seconds of fast paced video snippets, methinks.

At the very least, they trashed everything they designed for the summerset before the game launched. Remember that old summerset datamine? So many amazing ideas. Where are the varlines? The elemental slaves tending the land? The giant orrery in the sky that powers the island? It only takes 30 seconds to see that all that is gone.

How can I expect the altmer to be anywhere near as advanced as they were built up
to be when their cities are barely more impressive than an imperial’s?

Were any of those things more than just text descriptions of the design, or some concept art? Was any world building done at all?

If so, then yeah, it is a sad thing they abandoned it. But what if it turned out all of those ideas were just too difficult or expensive to implement?

I mean, in general, it's really easy to write cool things down on paper. It gets a little more difficult when you have to make sure that things can be played on 3 different platforms with varying qualities of connection to the game servers.

The "in-game engines can't handle it" argument falls apart when you see what they did with Artaeum. Or what they did with Valenwood (which isn't perfect but a hell of a lot more interesting than anything in Summerset). It's not a matter of engine limitations, but creativity.

Either way, if ZOS couldn't handle it, they shouldn't have done it, because now this is canon. This is the supposedly super-advanced culture we've been waiting to see. This is the nation Tiber Septim couldn't conquer without a giant robot god. It's a just a minor step above Cyrodiil.

And let's not forget that all the cities look the same, making it a step below the last chapter in terms of art design.

Why are there crumbling ruins in the middle of towns? The Altmer are all about perfection and preservation. Even in the livestream, the developers say this.

Why is everything gray stone? Is that the best the Altmer could do? Why does Zenimax always seem to default to the color gray when they can't think of anything more creative?

None of this has anything to do with engine limitations.

So, is

psychotrip wrote: »

CromulentForumID wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

You guys really need to chill down a bit. We saw 30 seconds of gameplay action, and already you're pulling everything apart down to the last atom.

Could we /at least/ wait until it is on the PTS so we can actually see it for ourselves in its entirety before bringing on the sour grapes, hm?

What does playing it have to do with lore, culture, or Zenimax’s choice to interpret the altmer in the most mundane manner possible? Will the pts somehow change the world
itself?

It's a little pretentious to think you can judge an entire chapter's worth of lore, culture and racial themes from 30 seconds of fast paced video snippets, methinks.

At the very least, they trashed everything they designed for the summerset before the game launched. Remember that old summerset datamine? So many amazing ideas. Where are the varlines? The elemental slaves tending the land? The giant orrery in the sky that powers the island? It only takes 30 seconds to see that all that is gone.

How can I expect the altmer to be anywhere near as advanced as they were built up
to be when their cities are barely more impressive than an imperial’s?

Were any of those things more than just text descriptions of the design, or some concept art? Was any world building done at all?

If so, then yeah, it is a sad thing they abandoned it. But what if it turned out all of those ideas were just too difficult or expensive to implement?

I mean, in general, it's really easy to write cool things down on paper. It gets a little more difficult when you have to make sure that things can be played on 3 different platforms with varying qualities of connection to the game servers.

The "in-game engines can't handle it" argument falls apart when you see what they did with Artaeum. Or what they did with Valenwood (which isn't perfect but a hell of a lot more interesting than anything in Summerset). It's not a matter of engine limitations, but creativity.

Either way, if ZOS couldn't handle it, they shouldn't have done it, because now this is canon. This is the supposedly super-advanced culture we've been waiting to see. This is the nation Tiber Septim couldn't conquer without a giant robot god. Turns out it's just a minor step above Cyrodiil.

And let's not forget that all the cities look the same, making it a step below the last chapter in terms of art design.

Why are there crumbling ruins in the middle of towns? The Altmer are all about perfection and preservation. Even in the livestream, the developers say this.

Why is everything gray stone? Is that the best the Altmer could do? Why does Zenimax always seem to default to the color gray when they can't think of anything more creative?

None of this has anything to do with engine limitations.

The argument or at least the question was if anything was too difficult or expensive. One piece of that is the game engine, but not all of it. It's very possible time and/or budget did not allow them to add all of the things you wanted. That's not a satisfying reason, but it's also not so easily dismissed by pointing to other things in the game.

I'm not a fan of jumping on the "Lazy Devs!" bandwagon. We can be unsatisfied or even critical, but we really have no idea why the design choices were made.

I get that the end result is disappointing, but to be honest, I don't think you had any hope of liking how this chapter turned out. Here's why.

It's laughable that Khajiit get more lavish, fancy architecture than we get. It's laughable that all the amazing things they were working on in the early datamines, with all the crazy advanced magic, is now just in the garbage can. So much for the Altmer being able to back up their snobbishness. Now they're just delusional hypocrites. I guess everyone hates them for a reason.

We? You've done this on at least two of these threads now. That level of identification with the material can only lead to disappointment and nerd rage.

psychotrip

Casowen wrote: »

I feel I need to post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrlNSGbgrlQ

This is what I meant by "more organic"

CromulentForumID wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

CromulentForumID wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

You guys really need to chill down a bit. We saw 30 seconds of gameplay action, and already you're pulling everything apart down to the last atom.

Could we /at least/ wait until it is on the PTS so we can actually see it for ourselves in its entirety before bringing on the sour grapes, hm?

What does playing it have to do with lore, culture, or Zenimax’s choice to interpret the altmer in the most mundane manner possible? Will the pts somehow change the world
itself?

It's a little pretentious to think you can judge an entire chapter's worth of lore, culture and racial themes from 30 seconds of fast paced video snippets, methinks.

At the very least, they trashed everything they designed for the summerset before the game launched. Remember that old summerset datamine? So many amazing ideas. Where are the varlines? The elemental slaves tending the land? The giant orrery in the sky that powers the island? It only takes 30 seconds to see that all that is gone.

How can I expect the altmer to be anywhere near as advanced as they were built up
to be when their cities are barely more impressive than an imperial’s?

Were any of those things more than just text descriptions of the design, or some concept art? Was any world building done at all?

If so, then yeah, it is a sad thing they abandoned it. But what if it turned out all of those ideas were just too difficult or expensive to implement?

I mean, in general, it's really easy to write cool things down on paper. It gets a little more difficult when you have to make sure that things can be played on 3 different platforms with varying qualities of connection to the game servers.

The "in-game engines can't handle it" argument falls apart when you see what they did with Artaeum. Or what they did with Valenwood (which isn't perfect but a hell of a lot more interesting than anything in Summerset). It's not a matter of engine limitations, but creativity.

Either way, if ZOS couldn't handle it, they shouldn't have done it, because now this is canon. This is the supposedly super-advanced culture we've been waiting to see. This is the nation Tiber Septim couldn't conquer without a giant robot god. It's a just a minor step above Cyrodiil.

And let's not forget that all the cities look the same, making it a step below the last chapter in terms of art design.

Why are there crumbling ruins in the middle of towns? The Altmer are all about perfection and preservation. Even in the livestream, the developers say this.

Why is everything gray stone? Is that the best the Altmer could do? Why does Zenimax always seem to default to the color gray when they can't think of anything more creative?

None of this has anything to do with engine limitations.

So, is

psychotrip wrote: »

CromulentForumID wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

You guys really need to chill down a bit. We saw 30 seconds of gameplay action, and already you're pulling everything apart down to the last atom.

Could we /at least/ wait until it is on the PTS so we can actually see it for ourselves in its entirety before bringing on the sour grapes, hm?

What does playing it have to do with lore, culture, or Zenimax’s choice to interpret the altmer in the most mundane manner possible? Will the pts somehow change the world
itself?

It's a little pretentious to think you can judge an entire chapter's worth of lore, culture and racial themes from 30 seconds of fast paced video snippets, methinks.

At the very least, they trashed everything they designed for the summerset before the game launched. Remember that old summerset datamine? So many amazing ideas. Where are the varlines? The elemental slaves tending the land? The giant orrery in the sky that powers the island? It only takes 30 seconds to see that all that is gone.

How can I expect the altmer to be anywhere near as advanced as they were built up
to be when their cities are barely more impressive than an imperial’s?

Were any of those things more than just text descriptions of the design, or some concept art? Was any world building done at all?

If so, then yeah, it is a sad thing they abandoned it. But what if it turned out all of those ideas were just too difficult or expensive to implement?

I mean, in general, it's really easy to write cool things down on paper. It gets a little more difficult when you have to make sure that things can be played on 3 different platforms with varying qualities of connection to the game servers.

The "in-game engines can't handle it" argument falls apart when you see what they did with Artaeum. Or what they did with Valenwood (which isn't perfect but a hell of a lot more interesting than anything in Summerset). It's not a matter of engine limitations, but creativity.

Either way, if ZOS couldn't handle it, they shouldn't have done it, because now this is canon. This is the supposedly super-advanced culture we've been waiting to see. This is the nation Tiber Septim couldn't conquer without a giant robot god. Turns out it's just a minor step above Cyrodiil.

And let's not forget that all the cities look the same, making it a step below the last chapter in terms of art design.

Why are there crumbling ruins in the middle of towns? The Altmer are all about perfection and preservation. Even in the livestream, the developers say this.

Why is everything gray stone? Is that the best the Altmer could do? Why does Zenimax always seem to default to the color gray when they can't think of anything more creative?

None of this has anything to do with engine limitations.

The argument or at least the question was if anything was too difficult or expensive. One piece of that is the game engine, but not all of it. It's very possible time and/or budget did not allow them to add all of the things you wanted. That's not a satisfying reason, but it's also not so easily dismissed by pointing to other things in the game.

I'm not a fan of jumping on the "Lazy Devs!" bandwagon. We can be unsatisfied or even critical, but we really have no idea why the design choices were made.

I get that the end result is disappointing, but to be honest, I don't think you had any hope of liking how this chapter turned out. Here's why.

It's laughable that Khajiit get more lavish, fancy architecture than we get. It's laughable that all the amazing things they were working on in the early datamines, with all the crazy advanced magic, is now just in the garbage can. So much for the Altmer being able to back up their snobbishness. Now they're just delusional hypocrites. I guess everyone hates them for a reason.

We? You've done this on at least two of these threads now. That level of identification with the material can only lead to disappointment and nerd rage.

Dude, think about it for a minute. When I say "we" I'm not saying, "I identify as an altmer"! I'm merely referring to the segment of the community that primarily plays Altmer. I know I take this *** seriously, but even I'm not that crazy.

To the other part of your point, I understand what you're saying about running out of time or not having resources, but I think of these things from a consumer-oriented perspective. At the end of the day, I don't really care what their reasons are unless it affects my experience. When it comes to paid entertainment, I care about the end product.

That being said, if we are going to talk reasoning, I still have a hard time believing they were just incapable of doing anything more than medieval european castles, or that somehow putting a bunch of dilapidated ruins everywhere would make things easier for them, especially when they've done much better work in other areas. It's a matter of worldbuilding more than resources.

I would honestly be okay with this if ESO wasn't considered canon, but at the end of the day it is, meaning this is what Summerset is from now on. Sure they can build upon it, but this is the base. I don't expect Bethesda to pull a complete 180 here.

Faulgor

Okiir wrote: »

What's sad is that on the early zone concept it seems like they were actually going for a glass/crystal Alinor. A concept that apparently got scrapped sometime during development.

They put up a complete version of this map on twitter, and guess what.
Crystal-Like-Law looks like a crystal.

psychotrip wrote: »

Pragmatic just doesn't feel altmer to me though. I never saw them as this bland or low-tech.

I know it's silly, but one moment that really stood out to me in the trailer was an Altmer carrying a barrel.
That really didn't make sense to me. You have Goblin and Daedra slaves for that kind of labor, or just use a spell Phynaster damn it!
Even the windmill stood out to me as out of place for the Altmer. Everything just seems like a medieval peasant society with long-eared people, that's it.

psychotrip wrote: »

I guess I'm just realizing I don't like The Elder Scrolls anymore.

Maybe we were never TES fans, just Morrowind fans. I mean, by now this blandness defines most of the TES releases, and every single time we try to defend the boring aspects with unreliable narrator excuses.
By now, I can't think of anything that sets TES apart from other fantasy universes in the public eye.
TES is just generic fantasy with cat people.

Man, I already said goodbye to Star Trek this year, I'm not ready for this.

ThinkerOfThings

If Lawrence Schick signed off on it, then it's cannon. This guy wrote the lore for d&d. Have some respect.