Summerset architecture.

TheNuminous1

ok ok so just to state what rich said. lore comes from lots of ingame accounts of stuff.

do you think when the author of the ingame book describing summerset and alinor wrote his book that he thought people would be interested in hearing about stone buildings?

probably not. we have not had anything to go on but his words. so why not exaggerate something so his readers are more entertained? its not like anyone can prove him wrong! people were not allowed there so his word was accepted at face value.

so all this hype behind insect wing buildings and glass and crystal. none of it was anything more then the account of an imperial writing a book. Not Concrete Information.

so please being that this is the first time we have seen the isle since arena can we just be happy to get something so beautiful and unique. Stop defending and standing bulwark to some npc's writings.

Onefrkncrzypope

why would an imperial lie about how amazing high elves are though?

Diruuo

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

why would an imperial lie about how amazing high elves are though?

Because he's an imperial prone to exaggeration?

Menelaos

It's not only from a lore or ingame persepctive, mind you. It's also what ZOS feels the pinnacle of Elven culture on Nirn (at least in 2E 583) should look like. Rich said something like "Everything the do, they do best. Because they can and because they had the time to do it."

I think that's where folks find it over- or underwhelming. Something like 5.000 years (give and take) of evolving architecture looks like... this?

Can't blame folks who say "no" to it, although I find it okayish in most parts.

Yakidafi

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

why would an imperial lie about how amazing high elves are though?

Because he fell in love with an elvish girl?

JD2013

If the stone was white enough, it would glimmer in the sun like glass?

Idk I like how Summerset looks. It's not how I thought it would be, but there are restrictions on what can be built in game engines. You can't make buildings out of poetry

WhiteCoatSyndrome

a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall.

That doesn't sound like someone hyping up places no one else has seen. That sounds like someone complaining about the foreign country--'it's too bright, it gives me a headache, I want to go home'. Now I ask this: why complain about architecture that doesn't exist?

TheNuminous1

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall.

That doesn't sound like someone hyping up places no one else has seen. That sounds like someone complaining about the foreign country--'it's too bright, it gives me a headache, I want to go home'. Now I ask this: why complain about architecture that doesn't exist?

ok so im still not seeing the whole crystal thing. high towers. check. windows that can fragment light check. this description sounds exactly like what ive seen today.

TheNuminous1

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

why would an imperial lie about how amazing high elves are though?

Cause hardly anyone in tamriel has seen the altmer homeland. so he capitalized on writing an extrazagant recollection for people to read. He is imperial it all comes down to what would make his book more popular and bring in the most gold.

Highlor3

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

ok ok so just to state what rich said. lore comes from lots of ingame accounts of stuff.

do you think when the author of the ingame book describing summerset and alinor wrote his book that he thought people would be interested in hearing about stone buildings?

probably not. we have not had anything to go on but his words. so why not exaggerate something so his readers are more entertained? its not like anyone can prove him wrong! people were not allowed there so his word was accepted at face value.

so all this hype behind insect wing buildings and glass and crystal. none of it was anything more then the account of an imperial writing a book. Not Concrete Information.

so please being that this is the first time we have seen the isle since arena can we just be happy to get something so beautiful and unique. Stop defending and standing bulwark to some npc's writings.

As I posted in another thread...

There are windmill sails with insect-wing-like architecture.
I think there was a better view of it in the Twitch stream.

Darkstorne

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

ok ok so just to state what rich said. lore comes from lots of ingame accounts of stuff.

do you think when the author of the ingame book describing summerset and alinor wrote his book that he thought people would be interested in hearing about stone buildings?

probably not. we have not had anything to go on but his words. so why not exaggerate something so his readers are more entertained? its not like anyone can prove him wrong! people were not allowed there so his word was accepted at face value.

so all this hype behind insect wing buildings and glass and crystal. none of it was anything more then the account of an imperial writing a book. Not Concrete Information.

so please being that this is the first time we have seen the isle since arena can we just be happy to get something so beautiful and unique. Stop defending and standing bulwark to some npc's writings.

Or it's the inevitable result of an engine originally designed with laptops and low end PCs in mind incapable of even rendering windows with transparency, being completely insufficient for rendering all those alpha layers of crystal and glass towers in cities, before you even begin to consider the hardware stress from dealing with reflections and refraction of light.

The environments look gorgeous, and I'm sure the lore and writing will be interesting. But the architecture here should always be viewed the same way as ESO's Valenwood design: nothing at all like how it really looks, but given the engine the art team is dealing with they've done the best they can.

Everstorm

I'm a bit confused by the many broken pillars and other ruins I saw. If they cling so hard to the past and are such great artisans wouldn't they keep everything well maintained and repair asap when needed?

CardboardedBox

Who cares about altmer buildings? It's all about that sload architecture.

TheNuminous1

Highlor3 wrote: »

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

ok ok so just to state what rich said. lore comes from lots of ingame accounts of stuff.

do you think when the author of the ingame book describing summerset and alinor wrote his book that he thought people would be interested in hearing about stone buildings?

probably not. we have not had anything to go on but his words. so why not exaggerate something so his readers are more entertained? its not like anyone can prove him wrong! people were not allowed there so his word was accepted at face value.

so all this hype behind insect wing buildings and glass and crystal. none of it was anything more then the account of an imperial writing a book. Not Concrete Information.

so please being that this is the first time we have seen the isle since arena can we just be happy to get something so beautiful and unique. Stop defending and standing bulwark to some npc's writings.

As I posted in another thread...

There are windmill sails with insect-wing-like architecture.
I think there was a better view of it in the Twitch stream.

red_emu

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

ok ok so just to state what rich said. lore comes from lots of ingame accounts of stuff.

do you think when the author of the ingame book describing summerset and alinor wrote his book that he thought people would be interested in hearing about stone buildings?

probably not. we have not had anything to go on but his words. so why not exaggerate something so his readers are more entertained? its not like anyone can prove him wrong! people were not allowed there so his word was accepted at face value.

so all this hype behind insect wing buildings and glass and crystal. none of it was anything more then the account of an imperial writing a book. Not Concrete Information.

so please being that this is the first time we have seen the isle since arena can we just be happy to get something so beautiful and unique. Stop defending and standing bulwark to some npc's writings.

Hit the nail right on the head there

swippy

i'm hoping that the state buildings and other of the more important buildings will have something like an iridescence to their texture, that we just couldn't see as well with so many shots being from a distance.

it might not be quite as prismatic as something "made of glass" and "designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors" but it'd at least be throwing us a bone on the "insect wings" part.

but i never did texture design so i don't know how hard that would be to code. if it was my job i'd probably try to start with a moiré pattern and find out it takes too much processing power...

Faulgor

Excuses, nothing else.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Highlor3 wrote: »

There are windmill sails with insect-wing-like architecture.

So the windmills can stay. Everything else needs to be taken away by the Justiciars for re-education in what it means to be proper Aldmeri architecture.

Everstorm wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by the many broken pillars and other ruins I saw. If they cling so hard to the past and are such great artisans wouldn't they keep everything well maintained and repair asap when needed?

This is also a good point.

swippy wrote: »

i'm hoping that the state buildings and other of the more important buildings will have something like an iridescence to their texture, that we just couldn't see as well with so many shots being from a distance.

it might not be quite as prismatic as something "made of glass" and "designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors" but it'd at least be throwing us a bone on the "insect wings" part.

but i never did texture design so i don't know how hard that would be to code. if it was my job i'd probably try to start with a moiré pattern and find out it takes too much processing power...

We've got iridescence in some of the clothing dyes (Nirncrux red, right off the top of my head); whether it would be feasible to do that for an entire city is admittedly a different story...

Enslaved

So, crystal tower is actually made of rock. What else will be off, I wonder.

BigBadVolk

Well I expected other, but I'm fine with this, this is ESO's representation maybe when it will appear in a SP game it wil appear like this, or differently
Also maybe they chose this style becuase they didnt have enough time to make new assets, or what could be an ingame answer is the Sload and Maormer, who we know are usually siege/raid/invade summerset more than any other part of Tamriel, and maybe when they first let men into the province, it had those architecture styles, but later on when the Sload/Maormer invaded the island there must have been instances where cities got ruined and rebuilt and after a time just like European Lords thought that the stone architecture is much more defendable and safer/practical then the previous ones because lets think about it if the glass/coral based architecture would be defendable they would use it on some keeps (not all ofc) in Cyro for better defense and such. But maybe its just the Devs didnt had time for new assets, or they left that for the BGS to do it later because we know that the Daedre in the THird era probably destroyed some of the Summerset cities or at least ravaged them heavily

psychotrip

When will ES fans just call a retcon a retcon? I’ve been watching this song and dance go on for years.

Sure, everything in ES is open for interpretation. That doesn’t change the fact that Zenimax chose to go with the most boring interpretation possible.

The most magically advanced race in Tamriel, with the oldest continuous civilization, closest to the aldmer in every way possible....and it’s just a bunch of medieval castles. Jesus Christ.

I’m just sick of them throwing their most creative ideas in the garbage. Even ESO had some amazing ideas for altmer that they invented and then threw away.

Remember that awesome datamine about mainland Summerset when the game launched? Where are the varlines? The discarnates and aquiferi that tend the land? The giant orrery that powers the island?


Seeing them invent something so cool, then toss it all in favor of something derivative, within the span of the same game, is like a microcosm of everything wrong with this series.

I’ve just had enough if the bait and switch. They’re so unwilling to follow through with their ideas it’s infuriating. This is like Cyrodiil 2.0 for me, except at least I started with Oblivion so I had no idea what I was missing until years later.

Enslaved wrote: »

So, crystal tower is actually made of rock. What else will be off, I wonder.

This is actually hilarious to me, because it says so much about Zenimax’s design philosophy. When in doubt, make it gray stone. No. Matter. What.

Everstorm wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by the many broken pillars and other ruins I saw. If they cling so hard to the past and are such great artisans wouldn't they keep everything well maintained and repair asap when needed?

Because worldbuilding is hard, and it’s easy to make something look old and lived-in by making it look ruined. We need to stop trying to logic our way out of these situations with lore. There is no internal consistency in this series anymore.

Menelaos wrote: »

It's not only from a lore or ingame persepctive, mind you. It's also what ZOS feels the pinnacle of Elven culture on Nirn (at least in 2E 583) should look like. Rich said something like "Everything the do, they do best. Because they can and because they had the time to do it."

I think that's where folks find it over- or underwhelming. Something like 5.000 years (give and take) of evolving architecture looks like... this?

Can't blame folks who say "no" to it, although I find it okayish in most parts.

Yup. If this is the best they can possibly build their society, then I was an idiot to ever like the altmer. Turns out they’re just a bunch of incompetent hypocrites who are barely more advanced than the imperials.

Stewart1874

I hope i'm not getting caught up in the hype but from the pictures the main city looks unbelievable! I think we've been crying out for a city which is absolutely massive and impressive in equal measure. If Vivec city wasn't in construction that probably would have been it.

I hope they are sensible about where they position guild traders and crafting stations though, there is a reason Mournhold is hugely popular with players.

Carbonised

Stewart1874 wrote: »

I hope they are sensible about where they position guild traders and crafting stations though, there is a reason Mournhold is hugely popular with players.

Vivec City showed they had indeed learned the lesson. Everything is available within short distance, including writ boards, hand-in, traders and bank. I'm talking about the outskirts hub.

If they muck it up with Summerset, I'll just stay in Vivec City

Malthorne

Why build something that’s magical, mathematical, innovative and interesting when you could be “painfully average?”

What is wrong with having a higher standard for a series that we spend our time, money, and energy on?

Faulgor

Even if you're one of the people who like the current architecture and don't mind the discrepancy with previous accounts, can we at least agree it's a damn shame that all cities look the same?
Morrowind had distinct styles for each city, as it should be. The architecture on Summerset should be just as diverse, with the rivalries between different Kinhouses. Yet it's impossible to tell Alinor, Lillandril and Shimmerene apart.

psychotrip

Faulgor wrote: »

Even if you're one of the people who like the current architecture and don't mind the discrepancy with previous accounts, can we at least agree it's a damn shame that all cities look the same?
Morrowind had distinct styles for each city, as it should be. The architecture on Summerset should be just as diverse, with the rivalries between different Kinhouses. Yet it's impossible to tell Alinor, Lillandril and Shimmerene apart.

More proof they have no idea what to do with the altmer. They had a whole chapter’s worth of resources, but unless they have a pre-existing game to work with, the best they can do is one art style for each race. This gets ridiculous when you have a chapter entirely themed around a single race.

Carbonised

You guys really need to chill down a bit. We saw 30 seconds of gameplay action, and already you're pulling everything apart down to the last atom.

Could we /at least/ wait until it is on the PTS so we can actually see it for ourselves in its entirety before bringing on the sour grapes, hm?

Royaji

To be honest, I'll take fancy castles over morrowind-shroom-extravaganza any day. I prefer high fantasy over creations of shroom-induced imagination. Different strokes, huh?

psychotrip

Carbonised wrote: »

You guys really need to chill down a bit. We saw 30 seconds of gameplay action, and already you're pulling everything apart down to the last atom.

Could we /at least/ wait until it is on the PTS so we can actually see it for ourselves in its entirety before bringing on the sour grapes, hm?

What does playing it have to do with lore, culture, or Zenimax’s choice to interpret the altmer in the most mundane manner possible? Will the pts somehow change the world
itself?

Carbonised

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

You guys really need to chill down a bit. We saw 30 seconds of gameplay action, and already you're pulling everything apart down to the last atom.

Could we /at least/ wait until it is on the PTS so we can actually see it for ourselves in its entirety before bringing on the sour grapes, hm?

What does playing it have to do with lore, culture, or Zenimax’s choice to interpret the altmer in the most mundane manner possible? Will the pts somehow change the world
itself?

It's a little pretentious to think you can judge an entire chapter's worth of lore, culture and racial themes from 30 seconds of fast paced video snippets, methinks.

psychotrip

Carbonised wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

You guys really need to chill down a bit. We saw 30 seconds of gameplay action, and already you're pulling everything apart down to the last atom.

Could we /at least/ wait until it is on the PTS so we can actually see it for ourselves in its entirety before bringing on the sour grapes, hm?

What does playing it have to do with lore, culture, or Zenimax’s choice to interpret the altmer in the most mundane manner possible? Will the pts somehow change the world
itself?

It's a little pretentious to think you can judge an entire chapter's worth of lore, culture and racial themes from 30 seconds of fast paced video snippets, methinks.

At the very least, they trashed everything they designed for the summerset before the game launched. Remember that old summerset datamine? So many amazing ideas. Where are the varlines? The elemental slaves tending the land? The giant orrery in the sky that powers the island? It only takes 30 seconds to see that all that is gone.

How can I expect the altmer to be anywhere near as advanced as they were built up
to be when their cities are barely more impressive than an imperial’s?