Summerset architecture.

GrantTheGriffon

Perhaps it would be beneficial to move this to the public test server category now? The discussion could do with fresh perspective now that users have access to Summerset.

Zordrage

JD2013 wrote: »

If the stone was white enough, it would glimmer in the sun like glass?

Idk I like how Summerset looks. It's not how I thought it would be, but there are restrictions on what can be built in game engines. You can't make buildings out of poetry

there is no such thing as restrictions on Artstyle...

a Dev can create whatever he wants and make it look how ever he wants it... its all on the devs and how much time they want to spend making cool looking stuff... thats it really.... Art style is not an engine thing to be honest...

and in my opinion ? Summerset is boring.... have SOME good buildings but overall boring.... nothing that makes me say wooow... and thats sad for a CHAPTER !!!

psychotrip

Zordrage wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

If the stone was white enough, it would glimmer in the sun like glass?

Idk I like how Summerset looks. It's not how I thought it would be, but there are restrictions on what can be built in game engines. You can't make buildings out of poetry

there is no such thing as restrictions on Artstyle...

a Dev can create whatever he wants and make it look how ever he wants it... its all on the devs and how much time they want to spend making cool looking stuff... thats it really.... Art style is not an engine thing to be honest...

and in my opinion ? Summerset is boring.... have SOME good buildings but overall boring.... nothing that makes me say wooow... and thats sad for a CHAPTER !!!

Well there are restrictions, but not in the way the person you're responding to is claiming.

The argument that Summerset looks the way it does because of engine restrictions falls apart under any sort of scrutiny. Look at places like Valenwood, or Morrowind, or Artaeum, or even just the khajiit buildings. Nothing is forcing ZOS to create this generic, gray, greco-roman nonsense that's been seen thousands of times in other games and is completely bereft of any sort of creativity.

DonWalking

Am I the only one getting Wizard101 vibes from Summerset

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I suspect it's a waste of time give that we were already brushed off once, but if anyone wants to ask the Loremaster on this topic, he's on ESO Live tomorrow.

MLGProPlayer

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I suspect it's a waste of time give that we were already brushed off once, but if anyone wants to ask the Loremaster on this topic, he's on ESO Live tomorrow.

They already explained the lore reasoning for the architecture, and it's sound:

Matt Firor: Yeah, you mean picking certain lorebooks, cities looked a certain way, but they're not definitive, so, you know… I think Elder Scrolls is, at its heart – and Todd Howard says this all the time – if magic left Tamriel, no one would notice, because it's very mundane at its heart. It's like, there's poor Altmer pig farmers, like, it's not like the high elves are better than anyone else, they're just different, right? They’re not like the super race, or they would’ve been able to control all of Tamriel. They have their own thing going, and so they can't be that much more advanced than everyone else. It just doesn't make sense in the lore. So with that in mind, that’s how we came up with the architecture for them.

inespeloazul

"Actually, TES is Low Fantasy, Sweaty )))"

Alternatively

"Transcription Error 2.0"

WhiteCoatSyndrome

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They already explained the lore reasoning for the architecture, and it's sound:

It's not sound, it's insulting and shows a frightening level of ignorance about the game lore from someone who works on it.

Kajuratus

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They already explained the lore reasoning for the architecture, and it's sound:

Matt Firor: Yeah, you mean picking certain lorebooks, cities looked a certain way, but they're not definitive, so, you know… I think Elder Scrolls is, at its heart – and Todd Howard says this all the time – if magic left Tamriel, no one would notice, because it's very mundane at its heart. It's like, there's poor Altmer pig farmers, like, it's not like the high elves are better than anyone else, they're just different, right? They’re not like the super race, or they would’ve been able to control all of Tamriel. They have their own thing going, and so they can't be that much more advanced than everyone else. It just doesn't make sense in the lore. So with that in mind, that’s how we came up with the architecture for them.

Really? When someone says something like this

They’re not like the super race, or they would’ve been able to control all of Tamriel

when lore exists stating this

They pay their Imperial tithes, I'm sure, not for fear of war with the humans but rather to keep an invasion from "infecting" their islands.

and

Exile to the mainland is regarded as equivalent to a death sentence, since there is no purpose in living outside their ideal society

that is anything BUT sound reasoning. Its painfully ignorant of the Altmer culture

psychotrip

Kajuratus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They already explained the lore reasoning for the architecture, and it's sound:

Matt Firor: Yeah, you mean picking certain lorebooks, cities looked a certain way, but they're not definitive, so, you know… I think Elder Scrolls is, at its heart – and Todd Howard says this all the time – if magic left Tamriel, no one would notice, because it's very mundane at its heart. It's like, there's poor Altmer pig farmers, like, it's not like the high elves are better than anyone else, they're just different, right? They’re not like the super race, or they would’ve been able to control all of Tamriel. They have their own thing going, and so they can't be that much more advanced than everyone else. It just doesn't make sense in the lore. So with that in mind, that’s how we came up with the architecture for them.

Really? When someone says something like this

They’re not like the super race, or they would’ve been able to control all of Tamriel

when lore exists stating this

They pay their Imperial tithes, I'm sure, not for fear of war with the humans but rather to keep an invasion from "infecting" their islands.

and

Exile to the mainland is regarded as equivalent to a death sentence, since there is no purpose in living outside their ideal society

that is anything BUT sound reasoning. Its painfully ignorant of the Altmer culture

But don’t you get it? Anything too “fantastical” in the lore is just an unreliable narrator!

Can you imagine if ZOS or present day Bethesda made The Elder Scrolls III in 2018? I’m sure they’d live in victorian cities, the tribunal wouldn’t have god-like powers, netch would be replaced with cows, akulakhan would be a marble statue and the heart of lorkhan would be a pretty gemstone.

Tamriel is “pretty mundane” after all.

Kajuratus

psychotrip wrote: »

But don’t you get it? Anything too “fantastical” in the lore is just an unreliable narrator!

Can you imagine if ZOS or present day Bethesda made The Elder Scrolls III in 2018? I’m sure they’d live in victorian cities, the tribunal wouldn’t have god-like powers, netch would be replaced with cows, akulakhan would be a marble statue and the heart of lorkhan would be a pretty gemstone.

Tamriel is “pretty mundane” after all.

I'm looking forward to when we head to Elsweyr, where the furstocks are revealed to be more of a metaphorical difference rather than a physical one. I mean come on, how would a society work that has people that can be born as tiny housecats and huge mammoth sized battlecats even work? Please, I need some realism in my high fantasy setting!

Enslaved

zadrotscrolls wrote: »

psychotrip

Kajuratus wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

But don’t you get it? Anything too “fantastical” in the lore is just an unreliable narrator!

Can you imagine if ZOS or present day Bethesda made The Elder Scrolls III in 2018? I’m sure they’d live in victorian cities, the tribunal wouldn’t have god-like powers, netch would be replaced with cows, akulakhan would be a marble statue and the heart of lorkhan would be a pretty gemstone.

Tamriel is “pretty mundane” after all.

I'm looking forward to when we head to Elsweyr, where the furstocks are revealed to be more of a metaphorical difference rather than a physical one. I mean come on, how would a society work that has people that can be born as tiny housecats and huge mammoth sized battlecats even work? Please, I need some realism in my high fantasy setting!

Yup. This is the Elder Scrolls of today. I can't wait to see how people defend it, either.

grizzledcroc

In the end it is what it is, I think they wanted to streamline that the dunmer were the weird ones and thats that. CW dlc was strange and full of weird designs and ideas so its not like they dont have that creativity. It has to be a full on consensus with zos/Beth that Helfs are to be the way they are now . Does it mean they will 100% make everything mundain in the future? Maybe but idk.

psychotrip

grizzledcroc wrote: »

In the end it is what it is, I think they wanted to streamline that the dunmer were the weird ones and thats that. CW dlc was strange and full of weird designs and ideas so its not like they dont have that creativity. It has to be a full on consensus with zos/Beth that Helfs are to be the way they are now . Does it mean they will 100% make everything mundain in the future? Maybe but idk.

Yup. That's the frustrating bit. They clearly have the talent and ability to go weird and creative when they want to, but they've decided to focus most of that energy on Morrowind, and either leave other places unexplored or water them down into the same generic fantasy worlds we've seen a dozen times before.

Sevalaricgirl

For all of you complaining, don't buy it. You don't have to. ZOS is not telling you to. Honestly, I am quite impressed with the Morrowind stories and don't give a care about the architecture. The story is much more important to me and I think they will do very well. They have for the entirety of the game.

Kajuratus

psychotrip wrote: »

I can't wait to see how people defend it, either.

That'll be the worst part I think. I mean it would be different if most of the community was up in arms against retconning the furstocks, but the overwhelming majority of TES fans probably don't even know about the different khajiit forms, which will unfortunately give ZOS the perfect excuse. Ugh, I can imagine the reddit thread now

On Khajiiti Furstocks; or What We're Getting versus What the Lore Says.

I've noticed that there seems to be something of a minor controversy brewing about the nature of the visuals in the upcoming Elder Scrolls Online: Elsweyr expansion. Many people are saying that the furstocks are lorebreaking, and that there should be a greater diversity to the different breeds of Khajiit based on what we have read in the lore. I've taken it upon myself to dive into the information that's available from in-game and supplemental sources and see what it actually says about the different furstocks of the Khajiit and see how it fits with what's on display.

The first information we ever got about the furstocks was in "An Interview with 3 booksellers." In this interview, we meet Jobasha, and he describes the different furstocks in surprisingly little detail. The only information we get about the Pahmar are that they are "like what you would call a tiger", and the Pahmar-Raht as "like the Pahmar, but larger and more dangerous." Note how he never states that they walk on all fours, so this fits perfectly with the image of a Pahmar-Raht from Legends, and the image of the bipedal Pahmar from the expansion trailer.

Whats important about this, it fits perfectly within every scrap of lore that exists for the Khajiit to date. What it does not fit are the ideas that have been propegated among the community to "fill in the blanks" where there was previously no information available. While this may be a rude awakening for some, the reality is not only do the furstocks we've been shown fit in with previously established lore, it in fact enhances it in some aspects and shines a light on the Khajiit as a people. They're just like you and me, not alien at all, and isn't that what Elder Scrolls is all about in the end?

I really hope that nobody from ZOS reads this and thinks "OMG, this guys a genius, we need to axe the whole concept of furstocks right away!"

Abelon

[snip]

Absolutely everything that they said about the Altmer could be said about the Dunmer. I mean, aren't Dunmer even more mundane? Dunmer also have their own thing "going". So why is their architecture so unique in comparison to the Altmer?

And honestly, I'm not disappointed that the weird descriptions from the lore aren't what we get to see - I can survive without seeing disco ball towers. I just think it could be more than what we have.

[edited for bashing]

grizzledcroc

They could have done a wombo combo of what we got and added in some crystaline roofs spires in the mix as well. Heck floating crystal street lights too

TelvanniWizard

grizzledcroc wrote: »

They could have done a wombo combo of what we got and added in some crystaline roofs spires in the mix as well. Heck floating crystal street lights too

That could have been the least they do. They could have done such an amazing thing... [snip]

[edited for bashing]

xeNNNNN

upon reading some of the comments in this threads its kinda sad that everyone looks too the surface instead of considering what might be beneath it.

For all we know, the more ancient parts of it are probably under ground farrrrrr underground. Where some of the "fables" start to ring a bit more true to the descriptions.

Well either that or bethesda told ZoS to retcon it. Unless it remains hidden until the next solo RPG TES

psychotrip

xeNNNNN wrote: »

upon reading some of the comments in this threads its kinda sad that everyone looks too the surface instead of considering what might be beneath it.

For all we know, the more ancient parts of it are probably under ground farrrrrr underground. Where some of the "fables" start to ring a bit more true to the descriptions.

Well either that or bethesda told ZoS to retcon it. Unless it remains hidden until the next solo RPG TES

I mean in the most recent livestreams they just explicitly said that stuff wasn’t canon, so it’s probably the latter explanation.

Kajuratus

xeNNNNN wrote: »

upon reading some of the comments in this threads its kinda sad that everyone looks too the surface instead of considering what might be beneath it.

For all we know, the more ancient parts of it are probably under ground farrrrrr underground. Where some of the "fables" start to ring a bit more true to the descriptions.

Honest question, does the fact that we don't see the uniqueness of the Altmer improve the aesthetic of Alinor to you? Remember, from your point of view the most ancient parts are not there in the game. That means that ZOS chose to not include them at all. Does the knowledge that everything in the past was unique and interesting, but you don't get to see it important in your enjoyment of the lore ? Especially considering the Altmer continually strive to perfection in everything they do, why would the interesting buildings be relegated to the past, to something that wasn't perfect?

TelvanniWizard

Kajuratus wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

upon reading some of the comments in this threads its kinda sad that everyone looks too the surface instead of considering what might be beneath it.

For all we know, the more ancient parts of it are probably under ground farrrrrr underground. Where some of the "fables" start to ring a bit more true to the descriptions.

Honest question, does the fact that we don't see the uniqueness of the Altmer improve the aesthetic of Alinor to you? Remember, from your point of view the most ancient parts are not there in the game. That means that ZOS chose to not include them at all. Does the knowledge that everything in the past was unique and interesting, but you don't get to see it important in your enjoyment of the lore ? Especially considering the Altmer continually strive to perfection in everything they do, why would the interesting buildings be relegated to the past, to something that wasn't perfect?

maboleth

psychotrip wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

upon reading some of the comments in this threads its kinda sad that everyone looks too the surface instead of considering what might be beneath it.

For all we know, the more ancient parts of it are probably under ground farrrrrr underground. Where some of the "fables" start to ring a bit more true to the descriptions.

Well either that or bethesda told ZoS to retcon it. Unless it remains hidden until the next solo RPG TES

I mean in the most recent livestreams they just explicitly said that stuff wasn’t canon, so it’s probably the latter explanation.

Excuse me? What do you mean not canon? They made a game, first time ever island, being non canon?!

RANKK7

Every time I go visit Summerset I get out disgusted and dazed by the absurd melting pot of styles they came up with, a lookalike theatre of Merida, Roman baths mixed to some luxury Breton-ish style in poor disguise with a few elf-ish decorations.

Really @ZOS, what the actual ***.
Me too I was expecting something like this:

Vimora wrote: »

Also the sea landscape, those beaches that could have been a paradise ruined by the overly ugly low rez dumb-grey corals.

Good thing I'm not into High Elves otherwise I would be definitely pissed, though I'm definitely not happy either, I see it as a truly wasted opportunity.

My feedback is: awful job.

psychotrip

RANKK7 wrote: »

Every time I go visit Summerset I get out disgusted and dazed by the absurd melting pot of styles they came up with, a lookalike theatre of Merida, Roman baths mixed to some luxury Breton-ish style in poor disguise with a few elf-ish decorations.

Really @ZOS, what the actual ***.
Me too I was expecting something like this:

Vimora wrote: »

Also the sea landscape, those beaches that could have been a paradise ruined by the overly ugly low rez dumb-grey corals.

Good thing I'm not into High Elves otherwise I would be definitely pissed, though I'm definitely not happy either, I see it as a truly wasted opportunity.

My feedback is: awful job.

I mean clearly no one cares about this but us, but I do agree with you. The grey coral is especially annoying. I know thats how dead coral looks in real life but this is a fantasy world and it just makes the otherwise pristine beaches look ugly.

There's a lot of creative, colorful stuff in this expansion. It's just funny that none of these things were created by the altmer. Ceporah is amazing, both inside and out, so of course they make it clear the Altmer didn't make it. That weird dream sequence at the beginning is awesome, but of course it's just a dream sequence.

Zenimax is really committed to making The Elder Scrolls world "grounded", just like the quotes above indicate. That's just not why I fell in love with this series. Meh. It is what it is I guess. This is the future of the franchise and we just have to suck it up or stop caring. I'm happy for those of you that enjoy this stuff though.

nimander99

Why are we complaining about this? Ive read all the Imperial Guids series 1-3 and in game books since Morrowind (TES3).

Summerset is exactly as beautiful as I hoped it would be. I mean... C'mon... Walking tree cities in Valenwood, we don't have that.

Did you truly expect verbatim translation from a guide written in 1994 to be translated into this game?

Besides, those guides are written in the 3rd Era... Allow that some change can take place over a thousand years.

I mean, just look at what rl humans have accomplished in the last hunnit years for comparison.

Herp derp.

JJBoomer

nimander99 wrote: »

Why are we complaining about this? Ive read all the Imperial Guids series 1-3 and in game books since Morrowind (TES3).

Summerset is exactly as beautiful as I hoped it would be. I mean... C'mon... Walking tree cities in Valenwood, we don't have that.

Did you truly expect verbatim translation from a guide written in 1994 to be translated into this game?

Besides, those guides are written in the 3rd Era... Allow that some change can take place over a thousand years.

I mean, just look at what rl humans have accomplished in the last hunnit years for comparison.

Herp derp.

a nice rational answer. I wish more people would just practice some radical acceptance about this stuff.

grizzledcroc

In the end I'm looking forward to all the Hindu architecture of the khajit homeland .