Premade groups are ruining battlegrounds...

Iskiab

No

Aurielle wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I usually play on off-peak hours. When I do play during peak hours I’ll get team mates who’re pure BGers.

I’m at 1k BGs played+.

Being a healer, granted that helps.

On April 12, you posted this:

Iskiab wrote: »

BRODY wrote: »

How i can know my MMR?

You can’t know, most people are guessing I think.

I was trying to figure mine out but it’s hard. I’ve been playing 9 months now and have done the daily almost every day, sometimes that’s it and other days I’ll spam BGs. I have no idea how many games I’ve played, maybe 400-1k?

My wait times are less than 5 minutes. I think most of the MMR complaints are actually about premade queue times but it’s hard to tell. I queue at different times of the day and the wait isn’t too long, apparently when the hidden MMR value gets too high it limits your matches to other players in high MMR so the wait times are long.

In three months, you’ve gone from not being at all certain if you’ve played 400 or 1000 matches (and that’s quite the wide possible range), to stating definitively now that you’ve played 1k+ matches. Which is it?

Well there is no way to track how many games you’ve played. 3 games a day for a year is still a conservative guess. I am PvP rank 38 after all.

Some days I’ll do just the daily, there have been days where I’ll do them all day. If there’s a definitive way to tell let me know.

MaxJrFTW

Yes

Iskiab wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I usually play on off-peak hours. When I do play during peak hours I’ll get team mates who’re pure BGers.

I’m at 1k BGs played+.

Being a healer, granted that helps.

On April 12, you posted this:

Iskiab wrote: »

BRODY wrote: »

How i can know my MMR?

You can’t know, most people are guessing I think.

I was trying to figure mine out but it’s hard. I’ve been playing 9 months now and have done the daily almost every day, sometimes that’s it and other days I’ll spam BGs. I have no idea how many games I’ve played, maybe 400-1k?

My wait times are less than 5 minutes. I think most of the MMR complaints are actually about premade queue times but it’s hard to tell. I queue at different times of the day and the wait isn’t too long, apparently when the hidden MMR value gets too high it limits your matches to other players in high MMR so the wait times are long.

In three months, you’ve gone from not being at all certain if you’ve played 400 or 1000 matches (and that’s quite the wide possible range), to stating definitively now that you’ve played 1k+ matches. Which is it?

Well there is no way to track how many games you’ve played. 3 games a day for a year is still a conservative guess. I am PvP rank 38 after all.

Some days I’ll do just the daily, there have been days where I’ll do them all day. If there’s a definitive way to tell let me know.

So how do you know your win rate is over 50%?

This addon tracks everything btw, if you pvp you should be using it

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1760-PvpMeter.html

Aurielle

Yes

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I usually play on off-peak hours. When I do play during peak hours I’ll get team mates who’re pure BGers.

I’m at 1k BGs played+.

Being a healer, granted that helps.

On April 12, you posted this:

Iskiab wrote: »

BRODY wrote: »

How i can know my MMR?

You can’t know, most people are guessing I think.

I was trying to figure mine out but it’s hard. I’ve been playing 9 months now and have done the daily almost every day, sometimes that’s it and other days I’ll spam BGs. I have no idea how many games I’ve played, maybe 400-1k?

My wait times are less than 5 minutes. I think most of the MMR complaints are actually about premade queue times but it’s hard to tell. I queue at different times of the day and the wait isn’t too long, apparently when the hidden MMR value gets too high it limits your matches to other players in high MMR so the wait times are long.

In three months, you’ve gone from not being at all certain if you’ve played 400 or 1000 matches (and that’s quite the wide possible range), to stating definitively now that you’ve played 1k+ matches. Which is it?

When i started doing bgs i was doing 10+ every day because queues were instant. In fact, my queues were pretty much instant until i started approaching 1k games. My point is you can very easily play over 500 bgs in 3 months if that's your main activity within the game.

Oh, it’s definitely possible. I just find Iskiab’s claims a bit suspect in general, because he/she does not think that well-organized high MMR premades are a problem due to allegedly having an over 50% win rate in high MMR, and yet previously seemed to have no idea about how many matches they’ve played.

Anyway, this right here is why I don’t run in synchronized, well-organized premades with guild mates using voice coms:



It’s too easy. No challenge whatsoever. Not fun at all. I only died once during that match because I literally was not in front of my TV. I had to answer the door. The opposing teams (which saw a lot of turnover during the match, including a few rage quits from known good solo players on PS4 NA who queued into that mess, took one look at the score disparity, and left) were only able to kill one of us because I was not physically playing at that moment in time.

Well-organized premades comprised of experienced PVPers highlight the balance problems inherent to small scale PVP in this game, and the problems inherent to ESO’s MMR system. Anyone who disagrees likely does not encounter well-organized premades on a regular basis.

Iskiab

No

Well like I said, there are good solo queuers and there are poor ones.

I was doing BGs yesterday and had 6 wins, 13 games. A lot is luck of the draw. There are good solo queuers like I saw Mursie and Mystikkal a lot but sometimes you get weak team mates. A ‘weak’ team mate are usually NBs or Sorcs who’re in glass canon specs who’s goal is to not die and not win the game.

As a solo queuer I had one game yesterday where the opposing teams stopped playing and stayed in their spawns when we had a 300-0-0 lead. Then people just goofed around until the timer ran out.

That isn’t a ‘premade’ vs ‘solo’ queuer issue. Those are people who are 1100+ CP but have not learned to pvp yet, likely because they personally lack a teamwork perspective because of their mentality... I think anyone who ends a BG with 0 healing is a carry. Two solid players wins a match easily in beginner BGs, in higher MMR it takes 3.

Getting rid of premade queues will just disperse this crowd evenly amongst the teams, but teams will be just as weak whenever they’re on that team.

I’ll download that addon. I’ve been lazy about it and especially like keeping my addons down in cyrodiil because of lag. Guess I need it to prove this point.

Madhatten512

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

There are not enough players to do what you're asking. If there were tiers of fighters it would be nice to maybe have different tiers of player but I believe you're asking too much. Some days I go out by myself and some days I go with a team.

if they split the queue there would be more people that want to group up and fight other groups people that actually enjoy competition and challenging themselves don't want to waste there time building group comp and set synergy to go pug stomp only people that need an ego stroke... You split the queue give solo queue players a chance to compete against other solo queues and you give people that actually want to compete and not just pug stomp a place to do that as well... The others have had a couple years of ego stroking so if they don't like actually having to compete against other groups tough...

Aurielle

Yes

Iskiab wrote: »

That isn’t a ‘premade’ vs ‘solo’ queuer issue. Those are people who are 1100+ CP but have not learned to pvp yet, likely because they personally lack a teamwork perspective because of their mentality... I think anyone who ends a BG with 0 healing is a carry. Two solid players wins a match easily in beginner BGs, in higher MMR it takes 3.

Fundamentally, it is a premade vs solo issue. When you solo queue at prime time, the caliber of player you encounter is much more consistent. Matches tend to be close, drawn out affairs, with everyone giving it his or her all. When everyone is solo queued, the result tends to be a fun, intense match. Here’s an example of a typical score differential with solo queued players at NA prime time:



Had we all been in premades, the score would have been even closer, with hardly any deaths and (unfortunately) hardly any kills. If one of the three teams had been a premade, though, the balance would have tipped heavily in the premade’s favour.

During off-peak hours (when people at various MMRs come into contact with one another, due to the game having to pull from a much smaller population to fill the teams up), things are a lot different. There’s much greater variation in skill and experience, and it’s typically easier to hit high personal scores if you’re used to playing in tough prime time matches. Some typical examples of off-peak score differentials and K/D ratios:









It’s also quite possible to beat the casual premades who play for fun during off-peak hours, or to troll them with kill-stealing:



If you mostly play during off-peak hours, then yeah, I can see how you think that it’s not a solo vs premade issue. A lot of the most cancerous premades aren’t playing during off-peak hours, except for those that enjoy no-lifing BGs all day solely to pugstomp. I moreso play during off-peak hours these days, because I’d rather pickle my eyeballs than play against prime time premades. If I could play more at prime time and know that I wouldn’t be going up against premades, however, I would, because I personally find solo queued matches at prime time more challenging and satisfying.

Anethum

Yes

About month ago at ESO live, if I remember right, Brian Wheeler and Gina were there, it was said that they going to completely rework lfg. From the beginning. New group finder blabla.
I hope, they included premade vs random problem into this new group finder. If not, well, I have no in-game reasons to return to the game 4th patch in a raw.
Cyrodiil is laggy, duels are not rewardable, bgs are unfair...eso pvp in 11 words.

Fake Remedy

No

I think you will find it is Zo$ that is ruining Battlegrounds.

Bhelen

Yes

Yes but the MMR system is to blame for it. It needs to be completely reworked.

BNOC

Aurielle wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

That isn’t a ‘premade’ vs ‘solo’ queuer issue. Those are people who are 1100+ CP but have not learned to pvp yet, likely because they personally lack a teamwork perspective because of their mentality... I think anyone who ends a BG with 0 healing is a carry. Two solid players wins a match easily in beginner BGs, in higher MMR it takes 3.

Fundamentally, it is a premade vs solo issue. When you solo queue at prime time, the caliber of player you encounter is much more consistent. Matches tend to be close, drawn out affairs, with everyone giving it his or her all. When everyone is solo queued, the result tends to be a fun, intense match. Here’s an example of a typical score differential with solo queued players at NA prime time:



Had we all been in premades, the score would have been even closer, with hardly any deaths and (unfortunately) hardly any kills. If one of the three teams had been a premade, though, the balance would have tipped heavily in the premade’s favour.

During off-peak hours (when people at various MMRs come into contact with one another, due to the game having to pull from a much smaller population to fill the teams up), things are a lot different. There’s much greater variation in skill and experience, and it’s typically easier to hit high personal scores if you’re used to playing in tough prime time matches. Some typical examples of off-peak score differentials and K/D ratios:









It’s also quite possible to beat the casual premades who play for fun during off-peak hours, or to troll them with kill-stealing:



If you mostly play during off-peak hours, then yeah, I can see how you think that it’s not a solo vs premade issue. A lot of the most cancerous premades aren’t playing during off-peak hours, except for those that enjoy no-lifing BGs all day solely to pugstomp. I moreso play during off-peak hours these days, because I’d rather pickle my eyeballs than play against prime time premades. If I could play more at prime time and know that I wouldn’t be going up against premades, however, I would, because I personally find solo queued matches at prime time more challenging and satisfying.

There's issues with solo queuing too - I can post screenshots like this all day long because although I do get matchmade against premades (Though they tend to be pretty soggy on Xbox EU) I also get matched against turnips non stop.

Granted my queues are 30M so I'm not sure if they're adjusting my MMR over time and just squeezing me in to any game due to low population, but it's not fun to just waltz about deleting beginners.

From both sides they need to look into this, it's not fair for solo players to face premades and it's not fair for new players to be facing players like me and it's definitely not fair to those that have less than 160CP, I don't know what they were thinking with that.

Iskiab

No

BNOC wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

That isn’t a ‘premade’ vs ‘solo’ queuer issue. Those are people who are 1100+ CP but have not learned to pvp yet, likely because they personally lack a teamwork perspective because of their mentality... I think anyone who ends a BG with 0 healing is a carry. Two solid players wins a match easily in beginner BGs, in higher MMR it takes 3.

Fundamentally, it is a premade vs solo issue. When you solo queue at prime time, the caliber of player you encounter is much more consistent. Matches tend to be close, drawn out affairs, with everyone giving it his or her all. When everyone is solo queued, the result tends to be a fun, intense match. Here’s an example of a typical score differential with solo queued players at NA prime time:



Had we all been in premades, the score would have been even closer, with hardly any deaths and (unfortunately) hardly any kills. If one of the three teams had been a premade, though, the balance would have tipped heavily in the premade’s favour.

During off-peak hours (when people at various MMRs come into contact with one another, due to the game having to pull from a much smaller population to fill the teams up), things are a lot different. There’s much greater variation in skill and experience, and it’s typically easier to hit high personal scores if you’re used to playing in tough prime time matches. Some typical examples of off-peak score differentials and K/D ratios:









It’s also quite possible to beat the casual premades who play for fun during off-peak hours, or to troll them with kill-stealing:



If you mostly play during off-peak hours, then yeah, I can see how you think that it’s not a solo vs premade issue. A lot of the most cancerous premades aren’t playing during off-peak hours, except for those that enjoy no-lifing BGs all day solely to pugstomp. I moreso play during off-peak hours these days, because I’d rather pickle my eyeballs than play against prime time premades. If I could play more at prime time and know that I wouldn’t be going up against premades, however, I would, because I personally find solo queued matches at prime time more challenging and satisfying.

There's issues with solo queuing too - I can post screenshots like this all day long because although I do get matchmade against premades (Though they tend to be pretty soggy on Xbox EU) I also get matched against turnips non stop.

Granted my queues are 30M so I'm not sure if they're adjusting my MMR over time and just squeezing me in to any game due to low population, but it's not fun to just waltz about deleting beginners.

From both sides they need to look into this, it's not fair for solo players to face premades and it's not fair for new players to be facing players like me and it's definitely not fair to those that have less than 160CP, I don't know what they were thinking with that.

I agree 100%. Today I had a bunch of failed queues and then started a BG with two sub CP160 players. In a low MMR BG you just stomp all over everyone, it isn't fair, and it's not fun for everyone.

https://imgur.com/qDmZUUY

Matching people in all gold gear, best traits, and with experience against new players is just silly.

TheKilamanjaro

Yes

In the age of Discord, every compettive LFG/groupfinder should be split into "party" and truly random. If you're in a party (even 2 people) you should be barred from the group finder that is solo queue's. And the rewards should be better for true randoms, although I'm not as adamant on that last point.
yes, its a problem in every game, but why can't ESO be the one to actually do something about it. It gets old having 2 or 3 fun matches and then 10 min of "dodging the pre-made cheesesquad"

max_only

Yes

They are removing the ability to group queue soon.

They should have separated premades first to prove how terrible they are. As it is, the people who like premades will stand by saying there’s no proof premades were the problem.

Commandment

No

Yeah people playing together in an mmo is a problem, we should also ban grouping in world pvp areas

boomcat

Yes

Commandment wrote: »

Yeah people playing together in an mmo is a problem, we should also ban grouping in world pvp areas

when there is only 1 queue for BGs in a 4 man team, yes it is... if the teams was 8 man, then i would not bother.. because those 4 pugs could ruin it for the 4man premade.

i dont know many other MMO´s where you can premade an entire team.. vs randoms.

idk

Sylosi wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

idk wrote: »

After all, this is an MMO.

Well on that basis you wouldn't have four man teams in instanced content, which is basically totally opposed to the core idea of an MMORPG - massively multiplayer set in a persistent world.

This really does not make sense. Especially in the context of what you quoted even with what was edited out.

It makes perfect sense, clearly this being an MMO does not get in the way of them diverging from that if they think something would be popular / better, which is why you have content like BG, dungeons, etc that are not "massively multiplayer".

So there is no reason to think this being an MMO would stop them implementing a more restrictive queue system (it hasn't stopped other MMOs or multiplayer PvP games), not that the notion even makes much sense in the first place, pre-made groups are not a requirement of something being massively multiplayer.

It is easy to say it has not stopped other MMOs but without examples it is empty words. And for this it has to be examples of major MMORPGs Not Mobas or simple multiplayer games as they are irrelevant.

I guess you haven't played many MMORPGs, but anyway GW2 for instance has had various ways to try and deal with pre-mades, currently it is probably the most restrictive it has ever been, where you have a solo/duo queue and pre-mades have a separate thing of automated tournaments.

As for MOBA/Multiplayer games they are completely relevant, if your "argument" is people should group up in an MMO because it is a multiplayer game, then exactly the same applies to normal multiplayers.

Ahh, trying to cast shade on me suggesting I have limited experience. Rather transparent and a sad attempt. While I have not played GW2 I have played other MMORPGs and my previous post is based on such experience. I often saw players complain about premades when on the losing side even when it was clear they were not up against a premade.

Also, I could care less about MOBAs. They are irrelevant to the discussion as they pretty much are designed to cater to the PvP crowd and should have a larger PvP population vs a game like ESO that was designed to be primarily PvE and the PvP is very much secondary.. Hence there is a smaller PvP audience and pool for BGs than in a reasonably successful MOBA.

Rahar

No

Battlegrounds have bigger issues than groups of players queuing up together.

oxygen_thief

Yes

Commandment wrote: »

Yeah people playing together in an mmo is a problem, we should also ban grouping in world pvp areas

people playing together against people who dont play together is a problem

precambria

No

When q for premades , only fight the other ones which are planned to queue at the same time, everyone accuse premades of wanting to pug stomp.... meanwhile high MMR players are having epic battles and never fighting pugs or even random other teams... I do lots of bg.. it's team imbalance not premades sorry, the only time I see actual group queue is planned GvG or it's people from Cyrodil struggling to fight the BG regulars who all solo queued. That being said we will see what happens, if it actually improves the team balance than I'm all for it but nothing about just removing group queue and reset the MMR seems to actually have anything to do with that, I'm almost even just happy they do it so I don't have to hear about premades from individuals with paranoid delusions any more -______-

Commandment

No

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Yeah people playing together in an mmo is a problem, we should also ban grouping in world pvp areas

people playing together against people who dont play together is a problem

This is an MMO.. That's essentially what you're supposed to do. "Play together"