Premade groups are ruining battlegrounds...

Blinkin8r

Yes

Not the pre-made groups fault. What battlegrounds should be is Premade V Premade V Premade. Not Premade V solo queue V solo queue. There's nothing more frustrating than waiting on the broken queueing system to get into a game where your team of solo queuers get packed up (and typically leave) before the game's over. If battlegrounds put the premades against premades and the solo queuers vs each other it'd become one of my favorite game modes. As of now it's just a grief fest.

MrSinister213

Yes

I don't mind the premades that curb stomp the deathmatch and get it over quick. Its the 4 man tank crew that can't kill or be killed and pushes the match to the 15 minute limit. No time for that, ill take my 20 minute penalty and switch characters or more likely log off to play a real PvP game.

Aurielle

Yes

Blinkin8r wrote: »

Not the pre-made groups fault. What battlegrounds should be is Premade V Premade V Premade. Not Premade V solo queue V solo queue. There's nothing more frustrating than waiting on the broken queueing system to get into a game where your team of solo queuers get packed up (and typically leave) before the game's over. If battlegrounds put the premades against premades and the solo queuers vs each other it'd become one of my favorite game modes. As of now it's just a grief fest.

Yup. During the third week of the Jubilee festival, some of my guild mates from my primary PVP guild wanted to group up and run a few BGs. I hardly ever run BGs in duos, let alone full premades, but one of our guildies had never tried BGs before and was reluctant to go in alone, so we agreed to help her out. Myself and the other sorc on our team were the most experienced, and our healer had some BG experience. We utterly annihilated the opposing teams. We made several people rage quit. It was a blood bath, and it was boring. And before anyone questions it, the other sorc and I are in the same MMR, and recognized almost everyone on the opposing teams (meaning that the newbie’s MMR had no impact on the quality of the opponents we were facing). We had one death — me, because I had to put my controller down and answer a knock on my front door.

It can’t have been fun for the opposing teams, and it certainly wasn’t fun for us. Had we been playing against other premades, though, it would have been a blast.

blistb16_ESO

Contrary can also happen. In one bg where I queued solo (and we were all random), there were also a premade. They were jumping at us with all their ultis, but we still had 0 death at the end and won easily.

Well, we had 3 templars in the team...

bigelle.x3_ESO

No

Love the anecdotal evidence people give. ONE TIME I PLAYED VS PEOPLE WHO I SUSPECT ARE PARTIED UP AND WE LOST!! Mmos are about playing with your friends. Remove the option of playing with your friends, well that's just silly. The only difference between premades and pugs is that premades are sometimes coordinated. A lot of the time premades are just a group of friends who aren't coordinated and just want to play with each other. You know how you beat them? "Hey guy, let's ult at the same time." "Hey let's stick together and maybe not run 1 at a time into 4 people." Boom one sentence and done. Try talking to your team, and maybe upping your own game. No one's unbeatable.

Goregrinder

No

People working together are ruining BG's for people who aren't working together? Nah, BG's are a Team game, not a Vet Dungeon you can solo and carry everyone else in. I see the same complaint being made all the time in CSGO Match Making then Clans(Teams, 5-man premades, etc) queue up, and play against a team of 5 solo-queuing randos, and win the match.

It's like..well yeah, they are all calling out over their mics, communicating changes in the game, providing info to the rest of the team, get trade kills, double peeking with each other, pop flashing for each other...they are playing like a coordinated group...which is what TEAM based games reward..coordinated groups.

This is no different. If 4 people are on discord, and are they have an IGL calling out targets, capture points, calling for heals, calling for purges, calling for CC's, etc....they have a higher chance of winning the TEAM BASED PVP BG. Working as intended.

If you're anti-social, can't afford a mic, or hate playing with other people that's not their problem, that's not ZOS's problem.

jcm2606

Yes

Goregrinder wrote: »

If you're anti-social, can't afford a mic, or hate playing with other people that's not their problem, that's not ZOS's problem.

You do realise that PC doesn't have built in voice chat, right? If you want to talk with the people you're playing with, you have to go and add them on Discord or something.

Weesacs

Yes

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

You know how you beat them? "Hey guy, let's ult at the same time." "Hey let's stick together and maybe not run 1 at a time into 4 people." Boom one sentence and done.

Wow, didn't realise it was that simple. Cool, ill never need to worry about those premades ever again when in a pug. Thanks for the outstanding advice mate 👍

bigelle.x3_ESO

No

jcm2606 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

If you're anti-social, can't afford a mic, or hate playing with other people that's not their problem, that's not ZOS's problem.

You do realise that PC doesn't have built in voice chat, right? If you want to talk with the people you're playing with, you have to go and add them on Discord or something.

Type in chat, "hey lets ult this problem guy at the same time." "Hey let's focus this guy". Instant equalizer.

Weesacs wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

You know how you beat them? "Hey guy, let's ult at the same time." "Hey let's stick together and maybe not run 1 at a time into 4 people." Boom one sentence and done.

Wow, didn't realise it was that simple. Cool, ill never need to worry about those premades ever again when in a pug. Thanks for the outstanding advice mate 👍

Happy to help. Doesn't always work because maybe you're just not good enough, your team just isnt good enough, or the other team is just really good, or maybe they have a healer and you dont, but I mean that's not really a premade issue is it.

Aurielle

Yes

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

If you're anti-social, can't afford a mic, or hate playing with other people that's not their problem, that's not ZOS's problem.

You do realise that PC doesn't have built in voice chat, right? If you want to talk with the people you're playing with, you have to go and add them on Discord or something.

Type in chat, "hey lets ult this problem guy at the same time." "Hey let's focus this guy". Instant equalizer.

Weesacs wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

You know how you beat them? "Hey guy, let's ult at the same time." "Hey let's stick together and maybe not run 1 at a time into 4 people." Boom one sentence and done.

Wow, didn't realise it was that simple. Cool, ill never need to worry about those premades ever again when in a pug. Thanks for the outstanding advice mate 👍

Happy to help. Doesn't always work because maybe you're just not good enough, your team just isnt good enough, or the other team is just really good, or maybe they have a healer and you dont, but I mean that's not really a premade issue is it.

Yeeeaaaah, sometimes people run BGs because they want to solo and don’t understand that BGs are team-based PVP encounters. Good luck convincing trashling Snipe spammers to focus a target instead of kill-stealing from stealth. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve written “please stick together and work as a team, guys” and gotten “stfu” in response.

An organized team will almost always win against random players, unless that organized team is weak. Just a simple fact.

oxygen_thief

Yes

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Love the anecdotal evidence people give. ONE TIME I PLAYED VS PEOPLE WHO I SUSPECT ARE PARTIED UP AND WE LOST!! Mmos are about playing with your friends. Remove the option of playing with your friends, well that's just silly. The only difference between premades and pugs is that premades are sometimes coordinated. A lot of the time premades are just a group of friends who aren't coordinated and just want to play with each other. You know how you beat them? "Hey guy, let's ult at the same time." "Hey let's stick together and maybe not run 1 at a time into 4 people." Boom one sentence and done. Try talking to your team, and maybe upping your own game. No one's unbeatable.

its clear you have never played in a pc pug. in case of splitting the queue you will be able to play with your friends against other people and their friends and we, unfriendly people who dont want to play against you and your friendly friends, will play separately

bigelle.x3_ESO

No

oxygen_thief wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Love the anecdotal evidence people give. ONE TIME I PLAYED VS PEOPLE WHO I SUSPECT ARE PARTIED UP AND WE LOST!! Mmos are about playing with your friends. Remove the option of playing with your friends, well that's just silly. The only difference between premades and pugs is that premades are sometimes coordinated. A lot of the time premades are just a group of friends who aren't coordinated and just want to play with each other. You know how you beat them? "Hey guy, let's ult at the same time." "Hey let's stick together and maybe not run 1 at a time into 4 people." Boom one sentence and done. Try talking to your team, and maybe upping your own game. No one's unbeatable.

its clear you have never played in a pc pug. in case of splitting the queue you will be able to play with your friends against other people and their friends and we, unfriendly people who dont want to play against you and your friendly friends, will play separately

I have played in a PC pug with absolutely disastrous teammates versus premades and won. I've also lost. No one's unbeatable. If you can't beat a premade, work on upping your own game, and if you get even one decent teammate you can win the game.

bigelle.x3_ESO

No

Aurielle wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

If you're anti-social, can't afford a mic, or hate playing with other people that's not their problem, that's not ZOS's problem.

You do realise that PC doesn't have built in voice chat, right? If you want to talk with the people you're playing with, you have to go and add them on Discord or something.

Type in chat, "hey lets ult this problem guy at the same time." "Hey let's focus this guy". Instant equalizer.

Weesacs wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

You know how you beat them? "Hey guy, let's ult at the same time." "Hey let's stick together and maybe not run 1 at a time into 4 people." Boom one sentence and done.

Wow, didn't realise it was that simple. Cool, ill never need to worry about those premades ever again when in a pug. Thanks for the outstanding advice mate 👍

Happy to help. Doesn't always work because maybe you're just not good enough, your team just isnt good enough, or the other team is just really good, or maybe they have a healer and you dont, but I mean that's not really a premade issue is it.

Yeeeaaaah, sometimes people run BGs because they want to solo and don’t understand that BGs are team-based PVP encounters. Good luck convincing trashling Snipe spammers to focus a target instead of kill-stealing from stealth. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve written “please stick together and work as a team, guys” and gotten “stfu” in response.

An organized team will almost always win against random players, unless that organized team is weak. Just a simple fact.

Seems like you get trash teammates, but let's blame the other team, not your own team.

oxygen_thief

Yes

oh another rambo in the thread. sure you've beaten em all so let us not bother your highness and l2p in a separate queue

bigelle.x3_ESO

No

oxygen_thief wrote: »

oh another rambo in the thread. sure you've beaten em all so let us not bother your highness and l2p in a separate queue

Haven't said anything like that. But yes generally the people who complain about premades generally aren't too great and are looking for a scapegoat for their losses.

jcm2606

Yes

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

If you're anti-social, can't afford a mic, or hate playing with other people that's not their problem, that's not ZOS's problem.

You do realise that PC doesn't have built in voice chat, right? If you want to talk with the people you're playing with, you have to go and add them on Discord or something.

Type in chat, "hey lets ult this problem guy at the same time." "Hey let's focus this guy". Instant equalizer.

Weesacs wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

You know how you beat them? "Hey guy, let's ult at the same time." "Hey let's stick together and maybe not run 1 at a time into 4 people." Boom one sentence and done.

Wow, didn't realise it was that simple. Cool, ill never need to worry about those premades ever again when in a pug. Thanks for the outstanding advice mate 👍

Happy to help. Doesn't always work because maybe you're just not good enough, your team just isnt good enough, or the other team is just really good, or maybe they have a healer and you dont, but I mean that's not really a premade issue is it.

Yeah, I'm going to watch what a coordinated team is doing, look for an opportunity to have my team ulti dump, stop what I'm doing, open chat, type out "hey, let's ult this team right now", and have half my team waste their ultimates like 5 or 6 seconds after the opportunity passed, while the other half didn't even see the message or otherwise didn't anticipate when we were going to ulti dump.

Are you just playing, or are you actually this daft?

bigelle.x3_ESO

No

Coordinate in spawn. You can just type r or ult when you see an opportunity. Even your made up scenarios are bad.

jcm2606

Yes

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Coordinate in spawn. You can just type r or ult when you see an opportunity. Even your made up scenarios are bad.

That still requires me to stop what I'm doing and type into text chat, which is the whole point of my last post. Talking in text chat is in no way comparable to talking in voice chat.

In voice, I can simply speak while continuing to play, which leads to far better coordination.

In text chat, I need to stop what I'm doing, open chat (since my hand is no where near enter while I'm actually playing), then start typing, only for somebody else to do the same to maybe tell me they don't have their ultimate. I'm wasting time typing my messages out, while the opportunity to ult dump has just casually waved goodbye.

Don't even need you to answer my question, can tell you're really that daft.

bigelle.x3_ESO

No

Are you really trying to be on a 100% equal footing in a pug vs a voice chat team to where even taking less than a second to type one letter is grounds for removing teamplay in a teamplay game mode. Shall we find other ways of balancing in this manner? Mag nightblades are weak. No magblades allowed because the team with the magblade is no way comparable to the team without one.

People who whine about premades man, like that person above who complains about not being able to coordinate because the team is filled with snipe spammers. Only bad players spam snipe, and to be matched with them is very telling on where the premade whiner comes from.

jcm2606

Yes

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Are you really trying to be on a 100% equal footing in a pug vs a voice chat team to where even taking less than a second to type one letter is grounds for removing teamplay in a teamplay game mode. Shall we find other ways of balancing in this manner? Mag nightblades are weak. No magblades allowed because the team with the magblade is no way comparable to the team without one.

People who whine about premades man, like that person above who complains about not being able to coordinate because the team is filled with snipe spammers. Only bad players spam snipe, and to be matched with them is very telling on where the premade whiner comes from.

1. Not 100% equal footing. Premades will always have an advantage over PUGs, because premades can coordinate their builds and playstyles, not just their strategies.
2. I'm not even talking about making it equal footing. I'm talking about you thinking that text chat is a viable substitute for voice chat. That's just incomprehensibly stupid.
3. I don't want to "remove teamplay in a teamplay game mode", I want players to be matched appropriately based on their grouping. In any other online game, groups are separated from the random queues and enter their own queue where they can only match against other groups. That is not the case here, Zenimax tried to make it the case, but they miserably failed.
4. Battlegrounds are just as much a solo game mode as a team game mode. If they weren't, you wouldn't be able to queue up as a solo player.
5. How are these two topics even vaguely related? In one, we're talking about a class, and in another, a group composition. Want a more realistic comparison? A pro football team going up against a bunch of random high school kids who just want to have fun.

bigelle.x3_ESO

No

jcm2606 wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Are you really trying to be on a 100% equal footing in a pug vs a voice chat team to where even taking less than a second to type one letter is grounds for removing teamplay in a teamplay game mode. Shall we find other ways of balancing in this manner? Mag nightblades are weak. No magblades allowed because the team with the magblade is no way comparable to the team without one.

People who whine about premades man, like that person above who complains about not being able to coordinate because the team is filled with snipe spammers. Only bad players spam snipe, and to be matched with them is very telling on where the premade whiner comes from.

1. Not 100% equal footing. Premades will always have an advantage over PUGs, because premades can coordinate their builds and playstyles, not just their strategies.
2. I'm not even talking about making it equal footing. I'm talking about you thinking that text chat is a viable substitute for voice chat. That's just incomprehensibly stupid.
3. I don't want to "remove teamplay in a teamplay game mode", I want players to be matched appropriately based on their grouping. In any other online game, groups are separated from the random queues and enter their own queue where they can only match against other groups. That is not the case here, Zenimax tried to make it the case, but they miserably failed.
4. Battlegrounds are just as much a solo game mode as a team game mode. If they weren't, you wouldn't be able to queue up as a solo player.
5. How are these two topics even vaguely related? In one, we're talking about a class, and in another, a group composition. Want a more realistic comparison? A pro football team going up against a bunch of random high school kids who just want to have fun.

Premades do not always have the advantage. Maybe you're a good player. Maybe you have a good player on your team. Maybe they're all bad players. Maybe some combination of the 3.

Voice chat is better obviously, but text chat is all you have when pugging. Your overexaggerated claims of how text chat works is false however.

Csgo doesn't match teams with teams. Full premades go against solos all the time. Do premades have a 100% win rate there? No. Do premades have a 100% win rate in eso where the pugs dont have access to voice chat like in csgo? No. It really is just a player skill issue.

4v4 game mode is not a solo game mode.

Seems like the pro football team shouldnt be matched with a high school football team. Luckily mmr exists. And if the high school team gets smashed because of snipe spammers, then they weren't playing a pro team in the first place, but a 100% beatable team.

Thogard

No

@jcm2606 this bigelle guy is fighting PvE premades and low MMR premades. He isn’t fighting the same premades that we are.

bigelle.x3_ESO

No

Let's assume everyone in a hypothetical bg is a fantastic player with the highest mmr possible. Two teams are pugs, the 3rd team is a 4 man premade. Absolutely ridiculous to believe that the premade will win every time and that they're ruining the game.

Thogard

No

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Let's assume everyone in a hypothetical bg is a fantastic player with the highest mmr possible. Two teams are pugs, the 3rd team is a 4 man premade. Absolutely ridiculous to believe that the premade will win every time and that they're ruining the game.

it really depends on who the premade is. If it's a high MMR match on PC NA then there's really only four groups it'll be, and if it's any of those four groups then they'll win every time against PUGs.

bigelle.x3_ESO

No

If it depends on who the premade is then it really is a player skill issue isn't it rather than "premades are ruining bgs".

Thogard

No

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

If it depends on who the premade is then it really is a player skill issue isn't it rather than "premades are ruining bgs".

Well if you’re a high MMR solo queuer like the people you’re arguing with, then the premades you’d be fighting are almost certainly one of those four.

And no, it’s not a player skill issue. It’s a group cohesion and class composition issue. Those are the benefits of being a premade. The fact that these groups (I’m including my own in the four) also have the top tier solo queuers in them means you’re doomed.

This is not a subject in which you are qualified to have an opinion on because you have not put in the time to reach that level.

bigelle.x3_ESO

No

Is eso the only game out there with a matchmaking system? This is a subject that is prevalent in every single game out there where you can queue. This is a team game. If you want to win, play as a team. If you want to solo and win, coordinate with pugs. If it's an issue with team comp, then a better matchmaking system is needed. If this issue is only happening in the highest of mmrs as you claim, then it's not really "premades are ruining bgs". Congrats on your premade being pvp gods also.

Aurielle

Yes

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

If you're anti-social, can't afford a mic, or hate playing with other people that's not their problem, that's not ZOS's problem.

You do realise that PC doesn't have built in voice chat, right? If you want to talk with the people you're playing with, you have to go and add them on Discord or something.

Type in chat, "hey lets ult this problem guy at the same time." "Hey let's focus this guy". Instant equalizer.

Weesacs wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

You know how you beat them? "Hey guy, let's ult at the same time." "Hey let's stick together and maybe not run 1 at a time into 4 people." Boom one sentence and done.

Wow, didn't realise it was that simple. Cool, ill never need to worry about those premades ever again when in a pug. Thanks for the outstanding advice mate 👍

Happy to help. Doesn't always work because maybe you're just not good enough, your team just isnt good enough, or the other team is just really good, or maybe they have a healer and you dont, but I mean that's not really a premade issue is it.

Yeeeaaaah, sometimes people run BGs because they want to solo and don’t understand that BGs are team-based PVP encounters. Good luck convincing trashling Snipe spammers to focus a target instead of kill-stealing from stealth. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve written “please stick together and work as a team, guys” and gotten “stfu” in response.

An organized team will almost always win against random players, unless that organized team is weak. Just a simple fact.

Seems like you get trash teammates, but let's blame the other team, not your own team.

I have excellent teammates, more often than not (the yolo solo Snipe spammers are rare at my MMR, but I listed them as an example of how asking your group to work together isn’t always a viable solution). The problem is that even with excellent random teammates, we are still RANDOM. Meaning, our builds do not necessarily synergize well. Premades aren’t just good at working together, they’re optimized in terms of their class and build setups. You can’t beat an optimized, well organized, skilled team with randoms. Simple.

Not blaming the premades, but I am blaming ZOS for having such a crappy matchmaking system.

tunepunk

No

Whenever I encounter premade groups I usually load up a lot of AOE ranged stuff, and just try to collect as much AP as I can from assists, or mess with them trying to break them apart with silver leach, swarm mother set, and suppression field, the volcanic rune from mages guild, that tosses them in the air.. You might not win, but you can annoy them so much they lose their mind. >_<

I usually have those kind of annoyance skills on secondary bar. They will probably outheal anything you do so try mess with them as much as you can with CC's, Knocbacks, Silver leach, and similar skills. If you stay out of range and manage to pull some out of heal range you can usually get a few kills.

I've been in several random groups where we were totally killing the opposition as well. Sometimes you get lucky and get a good healer, and other good players. People probably thought we were premade on those occasions.

oxygen_thief

Yes

tunepunk wrote: »

Sometimes you get lucky and get a good healer, and other good players. People probably thought we were premade on those occasions.

its hard to take for occasion when you see same four players in a one team 6th time in a row.