ESO Population size... are we losing players?

LadyNalcarya

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I don’t get worried when the end game content players start to dwindle down. In every MMO I’ve played, there’s always a substantial ebb and flow there. The end game raider crowd tends to shoot themselves in the foot with unreasonably high expectations and overly restrictive requirements for newcomers until they lose too many guild members through attrition, then they loosen up and allow more fresh blood to participate. When they get the participation back up, they tighten up again until they lose too many people. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Now, if the more relaxed (“casual”) content starts to die out, that’s when I get worried.

Unfortunately, lags and bugged skills are equally annoying for both casual and non-casual players.
Not to mention crashes. If you crash at the keep fight (and casual pvp mostly consists of big fights) a few times in a row... Well, its not an enjoyable experience, especially when you are kicked from campaign and have to wait in queue again.

knaveofengland

when you have done all the content you want to then game gets stale, at end level game ned a new dlc every 4 months .

they could with the pvp have a set area in pvp land where you have teams of 12 each side .

xbobx

they will continue to lose players while they keep making stupid decisions on prices for crown store items. One of the first thing i look at in mmos is the cost of items because it tells you what is more important to the devs.

This game, greed and green is more important than customer satisfaction. They are by far one of the worst for customer service. I think we all see how they ignore the important questions and reply to fluff ones.

unfortunately, this game is spiraling downward and its all because of the devs inability to understand basic economics.

danno8

Using Steam Charts as a general guideline, the game is pretty consistently high with spikes and troughs as expected when new content is released, and then gets stale.

Right now Steam has ESO average number of players at 9000. That is extremely consistant with the average over the last year, and higher than the average for previous years.

So basically ESO is not losing players according to the only objective (not perfect, but pretty good) measurement we have.

Defilted

I see zero population issue anywhere.

srfrogg23

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I don’t get worried when the end game content players start to dwindle down. In every MMO I’ve played, there’s always a substantial ebb and flow there. The end game raider crowd tends to shoot themselves in the foot with unreasonably high expectations and overly restrictive requirements for newcomers until they lose too many guild members through attrition, then they loosen up and allow more fresh blood to participate. When they get the participation back up, they tighten up again until they lose too many people. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Now, if the more relaxed (“casual”) content starts to die out, that’s when I get worried.

Unfortunately, lags and bugged skills are equally annoying for both casual and non-casual players.
Not to mention crashes. If you crash at the keep fight (and casual pvp mostly consists of big fights) a few times in a row... Well, its not an enjoyable experience, especially when you are kicked from campaign and have to wait in queue again.

Sure, those things are universally obnoxious, but they’re not a particular to ESO. They’re pretty common, and equally annoying, in any online game. They tend to be more detrimental to the endgame players, though. Let’s be honest, that’s where you need the best connection. Any little hiccup can lead to miss-reacting to a one-shot mechanic or a massive dps loss.

In the less intense content, it’s a nuisance at best, but not a group wipe. So the more “casual” types will be less likely to quit over it, imo.

Praetorrus

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

what’s out there for us advanced players? We need 2 man team trials and content like VMA. ANY THOUGHTS?

That's exactly what is wrong with most modern day MMO's, they are actually not MMO's anymore. Everything instanced, small scale, auto group forming etc, etc. It's so frustrating to see people demanding solo or duo content in MMO.

If you have no people of your level of play around you- start interacting with more people. Find new friends! That's how you play MMO, not creating a solo-duo bubble and hiding inside.

Asardes

Yep, nobody will suffer much if he gets a little stutter while picking flowers and Ancestor Silk in Glenumbra, but people will probably rage and pound their fists on the desk if their game freezes for 3s at Skinrai & Vashai and they can't reach the shade/light in time so they blow up, or when lag kills you at the Ash Titan with 15/15 vitality ...

Taonnor

The game population is still growing. This is my subjective feeling. My feeling is confirmed by the reddit trend of the official ESO reddit ->

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/

http://redditmetrics.com/r/elderscrollsonline

The reddit trend is an indirect indicator for the healthy of ESO population, because it shows the interesting into ESO. And it is still growing.

SGT_Wolfe101st

Agalloch wrote: »

We need sort of vertical progression besides the horizontal one.

We have too much mechanics on the newer dungeons . The mechanics count more than player skill. ( I am not against them but looking in chat and see "looking for group vet pledges non DLC " every day prove that 90% of the player base don't do the DLC plegdes .

BOP in trials made them only for organized Guilds . I think only a very small percentage ( 3-5% of the player base ) do them regularly.

I understand that eso fashion is interesting and fun but this is not Guild Wars 2 . ESO was advertised as a PVP centric MMO ( the story and trailers prove that ) Many people left pvp because the servers can't handle large population,because of lag, loading screens and so on...Also ZOS quit implementing the advertised justice system in all its aspects announced before.

I hope to have a real player guild system with levels, tasks, activities. I hope to have more incentive to the achievement system and pvp.

ESO is the best MMO right now ..but could be better .

I hope ZOS will bring back Paul Sage to make team with Matt . This will be a real success ...for ESO


Anyway, ESO is not losing population..I see plenty of people in every zone.



English is not my native language.

PVP Centric? There are 26 PVE zones, 6 Trials, 29 Dungeons, 16 Public Dungeons, 90+ Delves, and yet there are 3 dedicated PVP areas. Yeah, definitely PVP centric.

Casdha

I've gotten to where I play in 3 to 6 month spurts, and this time back I actually think the population has increased. I'm leveling a new character and I have yet to be on an out of the way quest by myself, no matter what time of day or night it is. More than one person always seems to be on the same step of the quest as I am.

There have been times when I could go half a day on these outlying quests and not see another player.

Anotherone773

The population of ESO is young, experience wise. I dont see a lot of 690-720s running around and i should, especially since you only have to get your CP levels once. Given my rate of progression in the game,id say 720 takes somewhere between 6 months and 2 years for most of the player base. That tells me that long term player retention is not that strong. You hit max CP, get bored/annoyed and leave.

ZOS tried to reinvent the wheel on a lot of things in ESO. There are things that work in MMOs and things that dont. While some players might be fine with how things are, you cannot appeal to a niche of players and survive, not with as many options as there are out there for MMOs( and there are far more than people on here seem to think).

Some of the issues i see that are critical to maintaining a good population consisting of both new and vet players:

1) lag/sync issues/FPS drops. This is completely unacceptable in a MMO where timing is often critical and things need to work when you need them too.

2) Bugs. So many bugs. A beta game doesnt have this many bugs and its gotten worse just in the time ive played( a few months). Bugs break games and bugs frustrate players.

3) Horizontal progression in every way. This just doesnt work for MMOs. Its not the Sims( though days it feels like it). You really hit a soft plateau feeling progression wise around CP160( not that any progression below this feels significant) that pretty nearly becomes a hard plateau at 300. There is no gear progression, no level progression( no leveling feeling at all really) and classes lose a lot of distinction. Grind is( suppose to be) a filler between content packs and there really is no meaningful grind. Just grind for the sake of grinding.

4)PVP is horrendous even by this type of mmos standards. The only open world PVP is full of lag. Battlegrounds arent battlegrounds. They are just arenas with cheesy objectives that everyone turns into a deathmatch because they arent forced to do anything strategic. No CDs means people can pretty much spam CC, attack, cc, attack, cc attack. Kind of boring. Even with no CP pvp is still greatly unbalanced.

5) Exhausting. This is one of the most exhausting button pushing games ive ever played. We have 5 action keys. Why do we have FIVE action keys? Moving, fighting, picking flowers, crafting.... a lot of pushing buttons in this game to do menial tasks, its ridiculous. This may be the game that gives me carpal tunnel. Its the first game ive played that i had to buy pro gaming( input) gear to play because its to tiring to play without it. And that doesnt solve the problem only lessens it.

6) Content to hard or to easy. Some of the content is really easy even for a new player. But then you get random instance in the middle of that easiness that is hard mode. There doesnt really seem to be a middle ground.

7) Dungeons are ridiculous. Seriously. Why are their raid mechanics in normal dungeons?Normal dungeons are to learn how to use your character in a group and in general. Raid mechanics in normal dungeons is idiotic and im pretty sure it makes many people shy away from dungeons. Vet dungeons are worse, and then you have raids.

8) Its like group content caters to elitists while overland content caters to casuals. MMOs are mostly casuals. So casuals get to end game find nothing they are capable of doing and quit playing.

9) Game lacks basic features. No spec swap, the UI is in general horrible, market system is dysfunctional on a good day. Group finder is very basic and seems broken half the time. Ability to be in 5 guilds really waters down the functionality and importance of guilds.

Dont get me wrong, this game has a lot of good things about it, but the bad things really drown it out. I mean i look at things and think " What were they thinking? Have they ever actually played an mmo, or did they just watch videos of one on youtube?"

Its biggest flaw is an eternal end game that really never goes anywhere. It is truly THE END.

The_Brosteen

FloppyTouch wrote: »

PvP

The true end game

Ariades_swe

It's totally dead. Whenever I visit the Harborage I'm the only player around.
Move to another game.

jedtb16_ESO

the quoting of steam figures to give population size is misleading.

at launch the game sold somewhere between 6 and 7 hundred thousand copies. none of them were through steam.

Azurya

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Agalloch wrote: »

We need sort of vertical progression besides the horizontal one.

We have too much mechanics on the newer dungeons . The mechanics count more than player skill. ( I am not against them but looking in chat and see "looking for group vet pledges non DLC " every day prove that 90% of the player base don't do the DLC plegdes .

BOP in trials made them only for organized Guilds . I think only a very small percentage ( 3-5% of the player base ) do them regularly.

I understand that eso fashion is interesting and fun but this is not Guild Wars 2 . ESO was advertised as a PVP centric MMO ( the story and trailers prove that ) Many people left pvp because the servers can't handle large population,because of lag, loading screens and so on...Also ZOS quit implementing the advertised justice system in all its aspects announced before.

I hope to have a real player guild system with levels, tasks, activities. I hope to have more incentive to the achievement system and pvp.

ESO is the best MMO right now ..but could be better .

I hope ZOS will bring back Paul Sage to make team with Matt . This will be a real success ...for ESO


Anyway, ESO is not losing population..I see plenty of people in every zone.



English is not my native language.

PVP Centric? There are 26 PVE zones, 6 Trials, 29 Dungeons, 16 Public Dungeons, 90+ Delves, and yet there are 3 dedicated PVP areas. Yeah, definitely PVP centric.

but all nerfs are due to PvPers begging for it!
ESO is just all about PvP, all "balancing", every downgrade, just for those who PvP
and don´t get it that they die there!

FearlessOne_2014

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

Trial group finding tool would be useful. And solving the lag, latency and performance problems...

The only group finder tool i can get behind. Is the LFG tool that GW2 has. It is pretty much one of the few things that MMO does right.

It allows you to advertise your group across the whole server. Then allows you to talk with the PUG finalize your strat. Also allows you to decide beforehand if you are even going to run with them or not. Before getting penalized for 15 mins.

If a GW2-like group finder replaced ESO's current failure of a group finder. I'd be happy to start queuing with PUGs again. Because at that point it would be by my choice. Not so RNG roll the dice for a group that can clear content that I can't solo. Get my drift?

jaye63

Yup... cuz they arent able to or dont want to fix stuff. Yo be fair... crach on log out isnt happening but crash on quit still is. And even with mods turned off... the load in is longer. I have a beast of a machine and 200Mbps ISP... it's not on my end.

I have numerous guildies who can play because the ping is between 600 and pegged out. Change server locations cuz this one your renting from isnt working out. Or... HEY! Here's an idea... BUY ONE! Stop renting one. the miniscule amount of money you save isnt worth it to the players.

Dracane

Hopefully, I feel like EU PC is totally overcrowded.

Kel

Ariades_swe wrote: »

It's totally dead. Whenever I visit the Harborage I'm the only player around.
Move to another game.

The Harborage is a solo instance. You'll never see other players there....

If you mean outside of it, I see tons.
So, I guess our personal, non universal, anecdotal experience cancels each other out.

Drachenfier

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

I’m finding myself short on players at my level of play. What’s going on ESO? Are we working on keeping end game players or getting new ppl in the game? I’m getting bored of writs, dps testing and etc. what’s out there for us advanced players? We need 2 man team trials and content like VMA. ANY THOUGHTS?

I thought the same the other day, I made a new character and stayed on Vvardenfell and other than the crafting area, it was deserted. But last night I made another new EP character and the starting area (the Nord island, forget the name) was literally swarming with people.

greylox

Drachenfier wrote: »

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

I’m finding myself short on players at my level of play. What’s going on ESO? Are we working on keeping end game players or getting new ppl in the game? I’m getting bored of writs, dps testing and etc. what’s out there for us advanced players? We need 2 man team trials and content like VMA. ANY THOUGHTS?

I thought the same the other day, I made a new character and stayed on Vvardenfell and other than the crafting area, it was deserted. But last night I made another new EP character and the starting area (the Nord island, forget the name) was literally swarming with people.

Actually, Vvardenfell is the only place I've noticed a lack of people, hard to get world boss fights etc but it's a paid for dlc...sorry, chapter, so sorta makes sense.

Demycilian

Uhm, if this game was doing so well they probably wouldnt have to be as desperate as to charge extra for dlc. For that matter, the fact they dont have the expertise and/or means to put together a proper expansion is telling enough in itself.

Agalloch

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Agalloch wrote: »

We need sort of vertical progression besides the horizontal one.

We have too much mechanics on the newer dungeons . The mechanics count more than player skill. ( I am not against them but looking in chat and see "looking for group vet pledges non DLC " every day prove that 90% of the player base don't do the DLC plegdes .

BOP in trials made them only for organized Guilds . I think only a very small percentage ( 3-5% of the player base ) do them regularly.

I understand that eso fashion is interesting and fun but this is not Guild Wars 2 . ESO was advertised as a PVP centric MMO ( the story and trailers prove that ) Many people left pvp because the servers can't handle large population,because of lag, loading screens and so on...Also ZOS quit implementing the advertised justice system in all its aspects announced before.

I hope to have a real player guild system with levels, tasks, activities. I hope to have more incentive to the achievement system and pvp.

ESO is the best MMO right now ..but could be better .

I hope ZOS will bring back Paul Sage to make team with Matt . This will be a real success ...for ESO


Anyway, ESO is not losing population..I see plenty of people in every zone.



English is not my native language.

PVP Centric? There are 26 PVE zones, 6 Trials, 29 Dungeons, 16 Public Dungeons, 90+ Delves, and yet there are 3 dedicated PVP areas. Yeah, definitely PVP centric.

Yes , PVP centric . Look at how ESO was advertised before launch. Look at the early days of PVP with hundreds of players on the same screen doing PVP.

The only thing ZOS dont understand that pvp must be separated from pve in matter of gear. We want to play for fun no one want to see their toons nerfed every patch because of PVP.

The same happen with pve gear sets.

I'm a huge fan of PVP ..but PVE loose the fun every patch because of the nerfs ...

Also PVP loose the fun because of the lag, loading screens, bad coding , and bad servers.

I'm sure ZOS listen to the community but they react too slow...and all that matter is to gain money ..in a short period of time ( look at all the "limited time offers on the Crown Store' ....)

They need to keep veteran players and try to attract more players to the game.

They must understand that a 4 year old man cannot be compared with a baby

It is hard to do this but I'm sure this year (2018) will solve many issues.


English is not my native language.

Bonzodog01

This game, like most other MMO's, has rises and falls dependent on the content curve and time of year. February - May will get lower, then the next chapter will likely drop, and there will be a rise taking us through to just before Xmas, when it will begin to fall again.

But this game is known to have an active playing population of ~750K between the six megaservers.

craftycarper73

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

I’m finding myself short on players at my level of play. What’s going on ESO? Are we working on keeping end game players or getting new ppl in the game? I’m getting bored of writs, dps testing and etc. what’s out there for us advanced players? We need 2 man team trials and content like VMA. ANY THOUGHTS?

Lol it's because trials are not rewarding for the time and effort you put into them. Also unless you are willing to help new players to learn and progress in your guild. I can totally see why you would think it's hard to find players to do trials with. Maybe groom and teach the new players who are replacing the vets? Or yall can continue to ask for only players who can post 35k plus dps. Only to complain about not being enough players to run trials with.

I see no issues with finding players who are willing to learn to run trials. I do see a bunch of vet guilds who are demanding players already be top noche before joining their guild and crying about that lack of players in game.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

I’m finding myself short on players at my level of play. What’s going on ESO? Are we working on keeping end game players or getting new ppl in the game? I’m getting bored of writs, dps testing and etc. what’s out there for us advanced players? We need 2 man team trials and content like VMA. ANY THOUGHTS?

Lol it's because trials are not rewarding for the time and effort you put into them. Also unless you are willing to help new players to learn and progress in your guild. I can totally see why you would think it's hard to find players to do trials with. Maybe groom and teach the new players who are replacing the vets? Or yall can continue to ask for only players who can post 35k plus dps. Only to complain about not being enough players to run trials with.

I see no issues with finding players who are willing to learn to run trials. I do see a bunch of vet guilds who are demanding players already be top noche before joining their guild and crying about that lack of players in game.

Bang on the money.

These players think they were born with the mechanics in bred into them, when the reality is they have the time to sit there all day learning these things because they have nothing more meaningful going on in there life other than eso.

pass on the knowledge

Tan9oSuccka

Seems vibrant and healthy in my opinion (PS4 NA).

Hard to tell without knowing the numbers.

Rex-Umbra

Its fine

KiraTsukasa

Of course the game is losing players. It's an inevitability for any game. You play for a time, you get bored, you play something else, maybe you come back or not. It's really not something to worry about, unless you go from ~3 million players to less than 50,000 in a couple months.

Tan9oSuccka

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Of course the game is losing players. It's an inevitability for any game. You play for a time, you get bored, you play something else, maybe you come back or not. It's really not something to worry about, unless you go from ~3 million players to less than 50,000 in a couple months.

Ahem. Destiny 2.

Hahaha...