ESO Population size... are we losing players?

Juju_beans

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

ah must be mostly on PC NA then, everytime i see people complain about how the prices are so bad now for anything on the store

You should play on EU for a while. Two totally different gaming communities.

Sergykid

i've actually seen an increasing number of players on steam. The game doesn't feel crowded though, only on events

Yzalirk

I think part of the problem is that players are waiting for new content to delve into. In this case, I do not think players are jumping ship but are rather taking prolonged breaks. Also with the recent XP events back-to-back players are probably burnt out grinding up alts.

Ley

I don't have access to all of the statistics but based on Steam Data, the game is doing WAY better now than it was at launch. There's a drastic spike every time new content is released and then a gradual drop until the next new bit of content. We're currently at the calm before the storm. Once Summerset launches, you'll see that spike of players again.

Violynne

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

ANY THOUGHTS?

People rush through the game, getting everything they want by running dungeons 15x/day, and now they complain there's nothing else in the game to do.

Raise your hand if you didn't see this coming.

That's what I thought.

Cpt_Teemo

[edited to remove quote]

Well he does have the right to his own opinion as we do ours I was just trying to say that they spend literally more time on the cash shop than in game content now.

Priyasekarssk

Ley wrote: »

I don't have access to all of the statistics but based on Steam Data, the game is doing WAY better now than it was at launch. There's a drastic spike every time new content is released and then a gradual drop until the next new bit of content. We're currently at the calm before the storm. Once Summerset launches, you'll see that spike of players again.

Release the stats how many players left the game. How many of them left for good ? I know many AD players left game once for all. Even with same stats you have shown, there is no increase in overall player base for long time for almost a year. In fact its decreased.
How many players are we losing ?
Even skyrim has better stats lol. Double the amount of ESO. Of course we should not compare with an legendary game.

http://steamcharts.com/search/?q=skyrim

Priyasekarssk

[edited to remove quote]

I agree. To make correct comparison, you should always compare with other MMO games and they offers. Either delusion or just get away in the name of elder scrolls.

Rain_Greyraven

You can't just say that ESO is losing players, because that is a misnomer.....riding through any city or visiting any public dungeon will tell you there is a metric crap ton of people playing this game I'm speaking for the PC platform here.


The issue (which in my opinion is a non issue) is lack of end game players, and that is because ESO is no longer a end game centric MMO it is more or less TES with friends, and there isn't a damn thing wrong with that, in fact that is what the original concept of MMO's were before Rob Pardo and Jeff Kaplan decided it was a great idea to gather a hundred or so max level players to kill a Dragon in Everquest.

ESO isn't and never will be a Raid or die game, nor will it be Darkfall....the market is saturated with raid centric and PVP centric mmo's....ESO has decided to be different and end game is a afterthought.


So yes ESO is losing a certain type of player, but it's keeping the very large demographic that could care less about rinse and repeat raiding or Gankapalooza pvp.

Priyasekarssk

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

You can't just say that ESO is losing players, because that is a misnomer.....riding through any city or visiting any public dungeon will tell you there is a metric crap ton of people playing this game I'm speaking for the PC platform here.


The issue (which in my opinion is a non issue) is lack of end game players, and that is because ESO is no longer a end game centric MMO it is more or less TES with friends, and there isn't a damn thing wrong with that, in fact that is what the original concept of MMO's were before Rob Pardo and Jeff Kaplan decided it was a great idea to gather a hundred or so max level players to kill a Dragon in Everquest.

ESO isn't and never will be a Raid or die game, nor will it be Darkfall....the market is saturated with raid centric and PVP centric mmo's....ESO has decided to be different and end game is a afterthought.


So yes ESO is losing a certain type of player, but it's keeping the very large demographic that could care less about rinse and repeat raiding or Gankapolooza pvp.

ESO losing players . Overall player base is very stagnant and decreased a little bit according to steam data. New players just filling old players. Even skyrim has double the amount for players for such a old game. If we compare with real numbers, skyrim overall player base will be atleast 10-20 times large than ESO, since many wont login.

We need solid content like orsinium DLCs. Not morrowind or summerset with huge mountains in middle of the map and grind centric .

Ley

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

I don't have access to all of the statistics but based on Steam Data, the game is doing WAY better now than it was at launch. There's a drastic spike every time new content is released and then a gradual drop until the next new bit of content. We're currently at the calm before the storm. Once Summerset launches, you'll see that spike of players again.

Release the stats how many players left the game. How many of them left for good ? I know many AD players left game once for all. Even with same stats you have shown, there is no increase in overall player base for long time for almost a year. In fact its decreased.
How many players are we losing ?
Even skyrim has better stats lol. Double the amount of ESO. Of course we should not compare with an legendary game.

http://steamcharts.com/search/?q=skyrim

I don't' see how comparing ESO to a different game makes the statistics less valid. ESO is not Skyrim. Fact of the matter remains, ESO has way more players today than it did at launch and more players so far in 2018 than it had for the same time frame in 2017.

Average players on steam for January - April 2017 = 8,980

Average players on steam for January - April 2018 = 10,115

Those numbers show that it in fact has increased and Summerset hasn't even launched yet.

Tandor

Ley wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

I don't have access to all of the statistics but based on Steam Data, the game is doing WAY better now than it was at launch. There's a drastic spike every time new content is released and then a gradual drop until the next new bit of content. We're currently at the calm before the storm. Once Summerset launches, you'll see that spike of players again.

Release the stats how many players left the game. How many of them left for good ? I know many AD players left game once for all. Even with same stats you have shown, there is no increase in overall player base for long time for almost a year. In fact its decreased.
How many players are we losing ?
Even skyrim has better stats lol. Double the amount of ESO. Of course we should not compare with an legendary game.

http://steamcharts.com/search/?q=skyrim

I don't' see how comparing ESO to a different game makes the statistics less valid. ESO is not Skyrim. Fact of the matter remains, ESO has way more players today than it did at launch and more players so far in 2018 than it had for the same time frame in 2017.

Average players on steam for January - April 2017 = 8,980

Average players on steam for January - April 2018 = 10,115

Those numbers show that it in fact has increased and Summerset hasn't even launched yet.

I agree that the Steam stats have been showing an increase, more recently it's been peaking at around 14,000-17,000 daily.

If people are seeing a population decline currently, however, they need to remember that the PTS is currently active with Summerset and a lot of players will be on there.

Also, there are a lot of decent games out there at the moment, and many players move between them on a regular basis. Just because they may not play ESO at a particular time doesn't mean they aren't still subscribing, so revenue is unaffected in those cases.

Rain_Greyraven

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

You can't just say that ESO is losing players, because that is a misnomer.....riding through any city or visiting any public dungeon will tell you there is a metric crap ton of people playing this game I'm speaking for the PC platform here.


The issue (which in my opinion is a non issue) is lack of end game players, and that is because ESO is no longer a end game centric MMO it is more or less TES with friends, and there isn't a damn thing wrong with that, in fact that is what the original concept of MMO's were before Rob Pardo and Jeff Kaplan decided it was a great idea to gather a hundred or so max level players to kill a Dragon in Everquest.

ESO isn't and never will be a Raid or die game, nor will it be Darkfall....the market is saturated with raid centric and PVP centric mmo's....ESO has decided to be different and end game is a afterthought.


So yes ESO is losing a certain type of player, but it's keeping the very large demographic that could care less about rinse and repeat raiding or Gankapolooza pvp.

ESO losing players . Overall player base is very stagnant and decreased a little bit according to steam data. Even skyrim has double the amount for players for such a old game. We need solid content like orsinium DLCs. Not morrowind or summerset with huge mountains in middle of the map and grind centric .

I really would't use steam data as a source as many folks loathe and detest steam now.....and have stopped using it.

Skyrim is also an anomaly, with it's Lincoln logs concept modding ability...you have a huge about of people that play that game who could care less about Elder Scrolls.


I do agree with us needing more content like Orsinium, though I actually enjoyed Morrowind (Different strokes) and am looking forward to Summerset. I think we will see some interesting DLC's once Summerset hits.... they have a lot to work with as anyone who has played Arena can attest.

Priyasekarssk

Ley wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

I don't have access to all of the statistics but based on Steam Data, the game is doing WAY better now than it was at launch. There's a drastic spike every time new content is released and then a gradual drop until the next new bit of content. We're currently at the calm before the storm. Once Summerset launches, you'll see that spike of players again.

Release the stats how many players left the game. How many of them left for good ? I know many AD players left game once for all. Even with same stats you have shown, there is no increase in overall player base for long time for almost a year. In fact its decreased.
How many players are we losing ?
Even skyrim has better stats lol. Double the amount of ESO. Of course we should not compare with an legendary game.

http://steamcharts.com/search/?q=skyrim

I don't' see how comparing ESO to a different game makes the statistics less valid. ESO is not Skyrim. Fact of the matter remains, ESO has way more players today than it did at launch and more players so far in 2018 than it had for the same time frame in 2017.

Average players on steam for January - April 2017 = 8,980

Average players on steam for January - April 2018 = 10,115

Those numbers show that it in fact has increased and Summerset hasn't even launched yet.

Again , there is a chart at the top and it clearly shows it pointing downwards trend. Just dont compare the numbers. Its not logical. Peak number of average players is in 2016. Steam is not overall , but its good indicator and eye opener. ESO increased player base since its launch, thats the time , ESO started to grow. I know many players left the game personally and not returning.
http://steamcharts.com/app/306130#All
Again it can be disagreed, but truth is always different from stats.

Rain_Greyraven

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

I don't have access to all of the statistics but based on Steam Data, the game is doing WAY better now than it was at launch. There's a drastic spike every time new content is released and then a gradual drop until the next new bit of content. We're currently at the calm before the storm. Once Summerset launches, you'll see that spike of players again.

Release the stats how many players left the game. How many of them left for good ? I know many AD players left game once for all. Even with same stats you have shown, there is no increase in overall player base for long time for almost a year. In fact its decreased.
How many players are we losing ?
Even skyrim has better stats lol. Double the amount of ESO. Of course we should not compare with an legendary game.

http://steamcharts.com/search/?q=skyrim

I don't' see how comparing ESO to a different game makes the statistics less valid. ESO is not Skyrim. Fact of the matter remains, ESO has way more players today than it did at launch and more players so far in 2018 than it had for the same time frame in 2017.

Average players on steam for January - April 2017 = 8,980

Average players on steam for January - April 2018 = 10,115

Those numbers show that it in fact has increased and Summerset hasn't even launched yet.

Again , there is a chart at the top and it clearly shows it pointing downwards trend. Just dont compare the numbers. Its not logical. Peak number of average players is in 2016. Steam is not overall , but its good indicator and eye opener.

/sigh

Again Steam has it's own issues and is losing players and developers as can been seen from this article here So you can't really use anything they are doing as a metric of the games they host, for all we know that drop is due to people leaving steam, if steam was the only way you could play ESO, you would have a point...but it isn't.

I stopped using steam because of their draconian refund policies and their dog pile toxic atmosphere...most everyone I know (and that is a considerable amount) only use steam if there is no other way to play a certain game....steam is no longer the mac daddy of gaming...they have jumped the shark and really can't be used as any type of indicator.

Kikke

So. PvE is dead because of the elite? So weird that it's the elite that gives you build, tactics, walk-troughs and whatever information you need.

I once was a scrub, I did 20k DPS and felt GOOD! But the time I started playing the game there was no new players, so all the trial guilds had been made, main groups were full, secondary groups were full. Most guild wanted a few trial achievements before inviting a new player.

What did I do? Go on the forums and complain about the "elitism" in the game? No, why should people that progressed and worked hard to be were they are spend their time carrying me? No!

I made my own trial focused guild, we ended up around 24man strong, NOONE had done veteran trials before. First run we clear vAA. We kept going that until we felt ready to move up, then we cleared vHRC without much problem. Our group dps was extremly low, but we made our own strategies that worked for us.

We spend months in craglorn trials too practise, get better, stronger. Time flew by as we had an amazing time. And by the end of it all. EVERYONE was what you would call 'elite 40k+ dps pharses'. Tho, we worked for it, we earned it.

By the end of the guild we had cleared vAA HM, vHRC HM, vSO HM, vMoL, vHoF.

And no, We never brought ANYONE in for a carry! Because why do trials, if you don't progress them yourself?

Violynne

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Steam is not overall , but its good indicator and eye opener.

No, it's not.

You're going to sit there and convince people that the most active number of users is currently 10k, with the peak at 30k, with a game base of 8+ million?

All the chart shows is number of people actively playing, who allow their account to be tracked.

This is not only a poor indicator, but hardly representative of the player base.

People take breaks from games all the time. Only a halfwit would expect someone to be online 24/7/365 and anything contrary is "ESO is dying".

DieAlteHexe

Tandor wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

ZoS is driving away lots of middle class since the prices are so absurd now its stupid, its all just a cash grab now

LOL..$15/month is nothing for the "middle class". Plenty play and have multiple accounts even for the family.

"cash grab" whines are most likely coming from people that don't have jobs yet.

Especially when you get $15 worth of crowns thrown in.

But I agree, it's the non-subscribers who complain constantly at having to pay anything to play the game. You see it on every game forum.

Actually the subs are complaining as well in game you don't read chat at all?

I have English zone chat enabled, not zone chat, and don't see any such complaints (PC EU).

Me either...

DaveMoeDee

Juju_beans wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

ZoS is driving away lots of middle class since the prices are so absurd now its stupid, its all just a cash grab now

LOL..$15/month is nothing for the "middle class". Plenty play and have multiple accounts even for the family.

"cash grab" whines are most likely coming from people that don't have jobs yet.

Even the $15/month is optional.

It is incredible that people talk expensive housing, a feature that didn't even exist for years, makes the game unplayable. How did people think they were going to recoup the cost of developing housing, a feature everyone got for free?

ilikepickles

Your level of play appeals to a tiny fraction of MMO populations in general. ESO's endgame format just makes it even easier to ignore that content and still enjoy the game.

Ley

I think some people misunderstand how to use the Steam data. Of course Steam doesn't represent the entire player base, it's only a sample of the populations. Lacking any other source of data, it is fairly safe to assume that overall population trends would roughly follow Steam trends on other platforms.

Considering how population spikes in accordance with every new content release, taking one snapshot of a specific time is not a valid indication of population changes over time. Likewise, looking at peak online players for any given time isn't particularly helpful. You should be looking at average online players over a fairly large span of time.

Look at the average concurrent online Steam players for the last 12 months compared to the 12 moths before that:

Last 12 month average = 9,306
Prior 12 month average = 5,912

Don't want to go back that far, look at the past 4 months and compare it to the same time frame the year before:

Average online players from January to April 2018 = 10,115
Average online players from January to April 2017 = 8,980

Don't like that comparison, how about the past 4 months compared to the 4 months prior:

Average online players from January to April 2018 = 10,115
Average online players from September to December 2017 = 8,857

Want to take a snapshot:

April 2018 = 11,408
July 2014 = 1,992


No matter how you slice up the data on Steam, the results show a clear increase in player population. Unless someone has actual data to prove otherwise, the data shows quite clearly a population increase.

ilikepickles

@Ley but properly using data makes my subjective whining baseless and wrong. Then I can't justify being angry at a video game. :C

krachall

I hope so.

Some day I'd love to enter a Delve or Public Dungeon and find a living monster. Yeah, there's a good bit of hyperbole in there but I don't think I've ever had a delve to myself. Even the remote ones that don't drop any good sets.

Similarly, when I was first learning to use a real rotation and actually survive solo encounters on my stamblade, I got the urge to try to solo a dolmen (again, this was when I was just learning, so give me a break." I traveled into the most remote areas of Tamriel and simply could not find a dolmen that didn't have other players ready to pounce. I bet I tried 20 different dolmen and could not find one to solo.

This game is packed. I don't think the adventuring areas are too small, there are just SOOOOO many people playing it.

FearAndPatching

I started playing day 1 of Xbox release and only played ESO until I took a break for about 6 months since I was just burnt out on the game. Just returned about 3 weeks ago and it feels like there are way more newer players than I have ever saw but seems to be less long time players from what I have saw.

ZOS must really be doing something right with their marketing cause the game definitely seems to still be bringing new players in consistently.

Asardes

Some people say that ESO doesn't have enough content for end game players. Indeed, it took quite a while for new trials to be released, nearly 2 years between Craglorn ones and vMoL, nearly one year between vMoL and vHoF. But now they are releasing a trial or "mini-trial" every 6 months and really challenging dungeons in between; arguably clearing vFL and vSP on HM is more challenging than the majority of trial fights out there. So I don't get it, should they only release that kind of content every 3 weeks to satisfy those kinds of players? If they did that, I bet the game will be dead in less than a year, since the vast majority of players out there can't even clear the normal mode on that content, because you need a minimum of knowledge and dedication to reach the level of competence needed to do so. The way the game is structured right now is just fine: easy questing areas are released also regularly, to cater to the so-called "casuals". So the game has everything for everyone ATM, and that's why most areas are populated.

Anastian

Totally agreed with OP, would be nice to see other mechanics instead of breaking the DPS wall

zaria

Violynne wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Steam is not overall , but its good indicator and eye opener.

No, it's not.

You're going to sit there and convince people that the most active number of users is currently 10k, with the peak at 30k, with a game base of 8+ million?

All the chart shows is number of people actively playing, who allow their account to be tracked.

This is not only a poor indicator, but hardly representative of the player base.

People take breaks from games all the time. Only a halfwit would expect someone to be online 24/7/365 and anything contrary is "ESO is dying".

Its the number of players who launch eso with the steam launcher. This is not needed as ESO don't use steam drm.
Still many do it out of habit. probably mostly causal players.

Now its probably an downturn before summerset as many take an break or play less before an major update.

lardvader

Not sure but the game seems less populated atm. But this seems common before big updates. A bunch is probably playing on the PTS and many ppl are on breaks until Summerset goes live.

I'm playing less than usual and I'm waiting for a few friends to return with Summerset. I know several who took a break after CwC when they had completed the content and farmed the trial for weapons.

DanteYoda

I doubt it... you'll know when ESO starts having troubles the crown store will take a huge over haul.. and things will change on "fundamental" levels..

zaria

DanteYoda wrote: »

I doubt it... you'll know when ESO starts having troubles the crown store will take a huge over haul.. and things will change on "fundamental" levels..

As usual tinfoil armor is meta in forum.