"It will always be items worse than what you can craft" №2

JKorr

Jhalin wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

Ronzar wrote: »

All it is going to do is take a little time off.

really? little? LOL

Yes, 2 weeks is not very long at all. And if someone is really dumb enough to drop $50 dollars on each scroll just to achieve the frankly meaningless title of "master crafter" faster (speaking as someone who is a handful of hours away from my final weapon 9th traits), then more power to them.

but, but.......there is no title.

I would say I wish there was a title, but then I think anyone who used it might end up being accosted by everyone under the sun to ask them to craft things.

The guild note thing in the roster list lets everyone know I have 9 trait crafters and give out free ww bites. Periodically I offer to make gear for new/newish players in starting zones and they ask to add my name to their friends list in case they want more stuff made later. Especially since I don't charge a fee for crafting. Its my personal preference, but I don't have problems crafting for people. Its why I made crafters in the first place. And I can always say no if the person is really being a pain.

Dexxadude wrote: »

Let the pay to progress begin. Didn't take long. Good shout spotting it.
Crafting can take MONTHS, now you can pay your way to finishing it right NOW. Disgusting
The shop will never give an advantage they said, well there it is.

Still waiting to find out what the advantage is to finishing research faster.

When you can pay a crafter to make your gear, join a guild and have a guildie make your gear for free it isn't an "advantage". Also if you haven't researched much/anything yet, the first few traits take only hours, and would not be worth using any of the time warp scrolls for. So the advantage is?

jedtb16_ESO

Dexxadude wrote: »

Let the pay to progress begin. Didn't take long. Good shout spotting it.
Crafting can take MONTHS, now you can pay your way to finishing it right NOW. Disgusting
The shop will never give an advantage they said, well there it is.

didn't take long?

four years....

good shout spotting it?

been common knowledge since the scrolls hit pts..... how long ago was that?

hydrocynus

How does this scroll make stuff die faster?

hydrocynus

If this is P2W (My opinion is it's not) then I am afraid there are far worse examples that you have missed my friends.

Julianos stuck behind Orsinium DLC
Mechanical Aquity behind Clockwork City DLC
Shacklebreaker in Morrowind

I don't think any of this is P2W but a scroll that allows you to research faster is far less progressive than the ability to craft the above 3 sets (amoung many others) for yourself

But someone can craft them for you I hear you say? Well why do you want 9 traits other than to craft stuff? Your same argument applies. Someone can craft it for you

#StormInATeacup

VaranisArano

If anyone is interested in the math of getting 9-trait crafter with the Crown Store research scrolls, I compared it to the in-game scrolls and just waiting out the timer here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/399756/pay-to-win-the-math-on-research-scrolls

Its a little long to post it here.

ClockworkCityBugs

VaranisArano wrote: »

If anyone is interested in the math of getting 9-trait crafter with the Crown Store research scrolls, I compared it to the in-game scrolls and just waiting out the timer here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/399756/pay-to-win-the-math-on-research-scrolls

Its a little long to post it here.

added to first post

Jhalin

hydrocynus wrote: »

If this is P2W (My opinion is it's not) then I am afraid there are far worse examples that you have missed my friends.

Julianos stuck behind Orsinium DLC
Mechanical Aquity behind Clockwork City DLC
Shacklebreaker in Morrowind

I don't think any of this is P2W but a scroll that allows you to research faster is far less progressive than the ability to craft the above 3 sets (amoung many others) for yourself

But someone can craft them for you I hear you say? Well why do you want 9 traits other than to craft stuff? Your same argument applies. Someone can craft it for you

#StormInATeacup

Except guild halls often have these sets attuned for anyone to use

ArchMikem

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

objectively saying, isn't Crown Store supposed to make one skip time or look better? i don't see the problem

and this is the pay to win point of view

How is it paying to win? What are you winning at? Not having to wait a full month for that last trait to research? So you pay crowns to have that trait sooner, how is that winning at the game? Does that trait suddenly make you unstoppable in PvP? Is it soloing dungeons for you?

People have gotten the definition skewed over what P2W really is.

hydrocynus

Jhalin wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

If this is P2W (My opinion is it's not) then I am afraid there are far worse examples that you have missed my friends.

Julianos stuck behind Orsinium DLC
Mechanical Aquity behind Clockwork City DLC
Shacklebreaker in Morrowind

I don't think any of this is P2W but a scroll that allows you to research faster is far less progressive than the ability to craft the above 3 sets (amoung many others) for yourself

But someone can craft them for you I hear you say? Well why do you want 9 traits other than to craft stuff? Your same argument applies. Someone can craft it for you

#StormInATeacup

Except guild halls often have these sets attuned for anyone to use

Good point, and most likely a guild that organised will have 9 trait crafters to help you while you wait the extra 15 days.

Another example of how this scroll is not pay 2 win.

VaranisArano

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If anyone is interested in the math of getting 9-trait crafter with the Crown Store research scrolls, I compared it to the in-game scrolls and just waiting out the timer here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/399756/pay-to-win-the-math-on-research-scrolls

Its a little long to post it here.

added to first post

Awesome! Thanks.

ClockworkCityBugs

i will wait for ingame version of scrolls
until that i will not make any crafters on my account

ClockworkCityBugs

hydrocynus wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

If this is P2W (My opinion is it's not) then I am afraid there are far worse examples that you have missed my friends.

Julianos stuck behind Orsinium DLC
Mechanical Aquity behind Clockwork City DLC
Shacklebreaker in Morrowind

I don't think any of this is P2W but a scroll that allows you to research faster is far less progressive than the ability to craft the above 3 sets (amoung many others) for yourself

But someone can craft them for you I hear you say? Well why do you want 9 traits other than to craft stuff? Your same argument applies. Someone can craft it for you

#StormInATeacup

Except guild halls often have these sets attuned for anyone to use

Good point, and most likely a guild that organised will have 9 trait crafters to help you while you wait the extra 15 days.

Another example of how this scroll is not pay 2 win.

and they charge alot of gold

Menelaos

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

P.S. according to this topic you can become an instant master crafter for only ~2000 usd

For only 2000 usd? Boy, that's a bargain.

VaranisArano

Menelaos wrote: »

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

P.S. according to this topic you can become an instant master crafter for only ~2000 usd

For only 2000 usd? Boy, that's a bargain.

Yeah, its depends on how patient you are and whether or not you have ESO+, but it costs between 300,000 and 340,000 Crowns to completely max out your crafting using just Crown Research Scrolls. So roughly $2000+ according to current PC/NA prices.

That's compared to about a year to research through waiting (assuming you are very on the ball with researching as soon as a new trait unlocks for research and have full passives).

And about half a year if you use the in-game Research Scrolls religiously (assuming you are very on the ball with researching as soon as a new trait unlocks for research and have full passives). You need about 500 scrolls in total to do this.

The full math and discussion here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/399756/pay-to-win-the-math-on-research-scrolls/p1

ClockworkCityBugs

If a millionaire and a poor man both started playing ESO at the same time and invested the same amount of playtime, but the millionaire purchased everything the crown store has that would help them progress, and the poor man purchased nothing but the base game.... who do you think would hit 1000000gold first? Who would hit cp cap first? Who would be doing veteran trials first? Who would be clearing vma first?

Time is a factor in an MMORPG. When you can cut your time investment down, that is pay2win.

Jhalin

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

If a millionaire and a poor man both started playing ESO at the same time and invested the same amount of playtime, but the millionaire purchased everything the crown store has that would help them progress, and the poor man purchased nothing but the base game.... who do you think would hit 1000000gold first? Who would hit cp cap first? Who would be doing veteran trials first? Who would be clearing vma first?

Time is a factor in an MMORPG. When you can cut your time investment down, that is pay2win.

Assuming equal skill and equa motivation to do al those things, they'd both hit those marks about the same time, because right now the Crown Store doesn't offer anything of real value.

The rich dude can buy exp scrolls, the poor guy can buy ambrosias.

The rich guy can spend $2,000 for instant crafting knowledge (after he buys all the items to research ingame), while the poor guy just researches the best traits in a few hours for transmuting and has other people craft gear in exchange for materials.

The rich guy can hit cap first, but the poor guy can do just about any content at cp300.

The rich guy could buy gold from botters, but that's not because of the crown store. Additionally, nothing in the crown store can be sold for gold, or is equitable to any sort of increased gold gains. The poor and rich guy can both hit 1mil by selling materials and tempers, or by farming motifs, or grinding it out for BiS overland gear to sell.

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

If this is P2W (My opinion is it's not) then I am afraid there are far worse examples that you have missed my friends.

Julianos stuck behind Orsinium DLC
Mechanical Aquity behind Clockwork City DLC
Shacklebreaker in Morrowind

I don't think any of this is P2W but a scroll that allows you to research faster is far less progressive than the ability to craft the above 3 sets (amoung many others) for yourself

But someone can craft them for you I hear you say? Well why do you want 9 traits other than to craft stuff? Your same argument applies. Someone can craft it for you

#StormInATeacup

Except guild halls often have these sets attuned for anyone to use

Good point, and most likely a guild that organised will have 9 trait crafters to help you while you wait the extra 15 days.

Another example of how this scroll is not pay 2 win.

and they charge alot of gold

I have encountered exactly zero people that charge more than mat costs for gear

starkerealm

Jhalin wrote: »

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

If this is P2W (My opinion is it's not) then I am afraid there are far worse examples that you have missed my friends.

Julianos stuck behind Orsinium DLC
Mechanical Aquity behind Clockwork City DLC
Shacklebreaker in Morrowind

I don't think any of this is P2W but a scroll that allows you to research faster is far less progressive than the ability to craft the above 3 sets (amoung many others) for yourself

But someone can craft them for you I hear you say? Well why do you want 9 traits other than to craft stuff? Your same argument applies. Someone can craft it for you

#StormInATeacup

Except guild halls often have these sets attuned for anyone to use

Good point, and most likely a guild that organised will have 9 trait crafters to help you while you wait the extra 15 days.

Another example of how this scroll is not pay 2 win.

and they charge alot of gold

I have encountered exactly zero people that charge more than mat costs for gear

It really depends on the crafter. To be blunt, there are a few people I can think of who get far less favorable rates from me when they try to commission me to make something for them. To be fair, they've earned that status by jerking me around in the past.

Also, if it's furniture, there's a small markup, because... meh, I'll round the cost to close to my expenses, rather than trying to work them out by hand.

Ronzar

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

If a millionaire and a poor man both started playing ESO at the same time and invested the same amount of playtime, but the millionaire purchased everything the crown store has that would help them progress, and the poor man purchased nothing but the base game.... who do you think would hit 1000000gold first? Who would hit cp cap first? Who would be doing veteran trials first? Who would be clearing vma first?

Time is a factor in an MMORPG. When you can cut your time investment down, that is pay2win.

Why is time a factor? I really want to understand your viewpoint here but you are making it difficult. If one person got to max level faster than the other person (which the crown store does not do), how does that person win against the other? I have friends who are max CP while I'm at CP200. I'm doing the same things they are. I'm not missing out on a darn thing. They don't magically have bonuses I do not, they don't have crazy better armor or gear, they don't have an advantage over me just because they got to max level before I did. Bringing crafting traits into this, they win exactly nothing because they have full trait Crafters and I don't. I actually have an advantage because now I can just have them craft stuff for me instead of doing it myself.

So, I will ask again like many others here: how are these crown trait scrolls Pay to Win if the person that purchased them didn't win anything?

Ronzar

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

i will wait for ingame version of scrolls
until that i will not make any crafters on my account

And while you wait (probably never stop waiting, but who knows), you could have made a full crafter with no scroll bonus

VaranisArano

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

i will wait for ingame version of scrolls
until that i will not make any crafters on my account

If you faithfully use the in-game version of scrolls, 1-day scrolls with a 20h cooldown, it'll take about half a year and around 500 scrolls.

ClockworkCityBugs

lol ZOS moved other topic to not popular section
im glad this one still herer

VaranisArano

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

lol ZOS moved other topic to not popular section
im glad this one still herer

Well, given that my topic is talking a lot about the Crown Store and ESO+, I can't really blame them.

ClockworkCityBugs

anyway, im glad we taking their attention now

ClockworkCityBugs

ArchMikem wrote: »

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

objectively saying, isn't Crown Store supposed to make one skip time or look better? i don't see the problem

and this is the pay to win point of view

How is it paying to win? What are you winning at? Not having to wait a full month for that last trait to research? So you pay crowns to have that trait sooner, how is that winning at the game? Does that trait suddenly make you unstoppable in PvP? Is it soloing dungeons for you?

People have gotten the definition skewed over what P2W really is.

anyway even if its not p2w
its a direction to p2w

Mettaricana

I dont see the pay to win here even if we could buy 500k gold in the crown store throwing gold coins at vma or a trial doesnt win it. I cant pay a dungeon to complete itself..

Another mmo i plyed had this feature and it worked nicely tera online had chrono scrolls it was a month sub and it was tradable its prices fluxed with the supply n demand some weeks it was 900gold others it was 2500 gold when new dlcs or expansions came chrono scrolls saw spikes then slowly fell kinda like tempers in eso when alcast drops a new bis build everyone flocks to max stuff out and change gear out. Adding a tradable sub doesnt really seem to kill anything ingame that zos hasnt already killed the profitability of most i see is the eso billionaires can just buy subs off poor people spread the wealth around rather than the i have 10k or less class and the i have 10 mil class of player. I admit i dont have the time to collect 4000 stacks of ore to refine to sell tempers or the wrecking squad to sell skin runs and i have spare cash i dont wanna spend on crowns.. as well.as i have no further need of crown store since we got outfitter aside from a crown only motif.

JKorr

hydrocynus wrote: »

If this is P2W (My opinion is it's not) then I am afraid there are far worse examples that you have missed my friends.

Julianos stuck behind Orsinium DLC
Mechanical Aquity behind Clockwork City DLC
Shacklebreaker in Morrowind

I don't think any of this is P2W but a scroll that allows you to research faster is far less progressive than the ability to craft the above 3 sets (amoung many others) for yourself

But someone can craft them for you I hear you say? Well why do you want 9 traits other than to craft stuff? Your same argument applies. Someone can craft it for you

#StormInATeacup

The good thing is that if your crafter has access to make the stuff, you can use the gear even if you don't. Add in the fact that with attunable stations many guilds now have ALL the crafting stations accessible at the guild house. So even crafters who might not have the dlc can now access the crafting stations for a specific set. [I haven't gone to the dlc stations for quite a while now. Two of my guildmasters got the attunable crafting stations for the guildhouse, so I go to one of them to do any set crafting I need to do.]

ClockworkCityBugs

crafted sets isnt p2w
vma weapons is

ClockworkCityBugs

@ZOS_GinaBruno any updates of this issue?

starkerealm

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

crafted sets isnt p2w
vma weapons is

VMA weapons aren't P2W, clearly, it's broom or bust!

ClockworkCityBugs

starkerealm wrote: »

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

crafted sets isnt p2w
vma weapons is

VMA weapons aren't P2W, clearly, it's broom or bust!

indeeed