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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
"It will always be items worse than what you can craft" №2
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Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
You win because you don't have to wait months....literally...months to level up your crafting traits. It's spoon feeding those players who in fact will pay to win. We might as well be able to pay to get lvl 50, and while we're at it you can buy cp points from crown store 1$ a point. Hell let's not stop there, you can buy vma and master weapons for 50$ a piece. Who need to run trials, you can now purchase gear in the crown store.
5000 crowns each. How many do you think the average player is going to buy to "win"?
So I don't think there will be any massive speed increase here unless some very, very wealthy souls are in a rip. I see this as something someone might use to get that last, reallllly long research bit done. It's hardly something people are going to buy in mass quantity and even is they do, it's not winning anything. It is speeding it up but that's not a "win". That's impatience and being charged for it.
Dude people spend money on games like clash of clans, and candy crush. I don't put anything past people anymore2 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
You win because you don't have to wait months....literally...months to level up your crafting traits. It's spoon feeding those players who in fact will pay to win. We might as well be able to pay to get lvl 50, and while we're at it you can buy cp points from crown store 1$ a point. Hell let's not stop there, you can buy vma and master weapons for 50$ a piece. Who need to run trials, you can now purchase gear in the crown store.
5000 crowns each. How many do you think the average player is going to buy to "win"?
So I don't think there will be any massive speed increase here unless some very, very wealthy souls are in a rip. I see this as something someone might use to get that last, reallllly long research bit done. It's hardly something people are going to buy in mass quantity and even is they do, it's not winning anything. It is speeding it up but that's not a "win". That's impatience and being charged for it.
Dude people spend money on games like clash of clans, and candy crush. I don't put anything past people anymore
Not a "dude"
And at 35€ a pop, my point stands.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
You win because you don't have to wait months....literally...months to level up your crafting traits. It's spoon feeding those players who in fact will pay to win. We might as well be able to pay to get lvl 50, and while we're at it you can buy cp points from crown store 1$ a point. Hell let's not stop there, you can buy vma and master weapons for 50$ a piece. Who need to run trials, you can now purchase gear in the crown store.
5000 crowns each. How many do you think the average player is going to buy to "win"?
So I don't think there will be any massive speed increase here unless some very, very wealthy souls are in a rip. I see this as something someone might use to get that last, reallllly long research bit done. It's hardly something people are going to buy in mass quantity and even is they do, it's not winning anything. It is speeding it up but that's not a "win". That's impatience and being charged for it.
Dude people spend money on games like clash of clans, and candy crush. I don't put anything past people anymore
Not a "dude" And at 35€ a pop, my point stands.
Dudette, were just gonna have to agree to disagree 0 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
You win because you don't have to wait months....literally...months to level up your crafting traits. It's spoon feeding those players who in fact will pay to win. We might as well be able to pay to get lvl 50, and while we're at it you can buy cp points from crown store 1$ a point. Hell let's not stop there, you can buy vma and master weapons for 50$ a piece. Who need to run trials, you can now purchase gear in the crown store.
5000 crowns each. How many do you think the average player is going to buy to "win"?
So I don't think there will be any massive speed increase here unless some very, very wealthy souls are in a rip. I see this as something someone might use to get that last, reallllly long research bit done. It's hardly something people are going to buy in mass quantity and even is they do, it's not winning anything. It is speeding it up but that's not a "win". That's impatience and being charged for it.
Dude people spend money on games like clash of clans, and candy crush. I don't put anything past people anymore
Not a "dude" And at 35€ a pop, my point stands.
Dudette, were just gonna have to agree to disagree
Aye, that we will. I think folk are trotting out the "P2W" thing on stuff that isn't. Hell, the riding skill stuff is more P2W than this item. THAT I can see actually making a difference with respect to "winning".
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake2 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I find it funny when people say, "but you get to craft 9-trait gear faster"... and how many of those 9-trait craftable gear is actually used in end-game content? NONE. So there is no 'win' with being able to craft higher trait gear faster, in fact, arguably the best craftable gear is crafted at 6-traits- Julianos and Hundings.
The only thing these scrolls do is make you able to craft higher trait gear FASTER... not making you 'better' than anyone else- therefore it's not P2W. Chances are, if you're running end game content where BiS is a factor in 'winning', then you've already figured out how to craft the gear you want/need anyway.CP: 1965 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
You win because you don't have to wait months....literally...months to level up your crafting traits. It's spoon feeding those players who in fact will pay to win. We might as well be able to pay to get lvl 50, and while we're at it you can buy cp points from crown store 1$ a point. Hell let's not stop there, you can buy vma and master weapons for 50$ a piece. Who need to run trials, you can now purchase gear in the crown store.
So...Maxed Research gives you the ability to craft/transmute armor and weapons for yourself in any trait as opposed to paying another crafter to craft it for you (and as for transmuting, you could simply research the most important traits first in minimal time or you could do what we did in the good 'ol days and grind for your desired traited gear, so I'm not buying that argument.)
The only effort you need to put in to getting Maxed Research is the researchable gear (purchasable from another player) and patience.
The only thing the Crafting Scroll is shortcutting is time. Time for impatient people.1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
You win because you don't have to wait months....literally...months to level up your crafting traits. It's spoon feeding those players who in fact will pay to win. We might as well be able to pay to get lvl 50, and while we're at it you can buy cp points from crown store 1$ a point. Hell let's not stop there, you can buy vma and master weapons for 50$ a piece. Who need to run trials, you can now purchase gear in the crown store.
Which crafted set is actually bis for endgame Trials/Pvp? Are there any crafted sets that get used for endgame type play?
You can't buy the bis gear, armor or weapons. From what I've seen you also don't craft it, no matter how many traits you have researched. The bis gear is dropped or rewards from vma.
For the IMUSTDOEVERYTHINGMYSELF player, yes, you have to do the research. Otherwise ask a guildie crafter, or ask in zone for someone to make your gear. No research involved, although you'll probably have to get the mats and pay a tip/fee for it.
I craft for my guilds and make sets for people who don't have maxed crafters. Depending on whether I feel like doing quests or not I'll craft for randoms in starting zones. If they actually know they want a specific set I'll make that for them, if not I'll go to the "defaults" like Hundings and Julianos, or suggest Shacklebreaker or even Morkuldin's. Am I giving away "pay to win" gear because I'm making for players who haven't gotten the research done yet? :gasp: I'll even make sets from dlc for players who don't have the dlc.....
3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
You win because you don't have to wait months....literally...months to level up your crafting traits. It's spoon feeding those players who in fact will pay to win. We might as well be able to pay to get lvl 50, and while we're at it you can buy cp points from crown store 1$ a point. Hell let's not stop there, you can buy vma and master weapons for 50$ a piece. Who need to run trials, you can now purchase gear in the crown store.
Which crafted set is actually bis for endgame Trials/Pvp? Are there any crafted sets that get used for endgame type play?
You can't buy the bis gear, armor or weapons. From what I've seen you also don't craft it, no matter how many traits you have researched. The bis gear is dropped or rewards from vma.
For the IMUSTDOEVERYTHINGMYSELF player, yes, you have to do the research. Otherwise ask a guildie crafter, or ask in zone for someone to make your gear. No research involved, although you'll probably have to get the mats and pay a tip/fee for it.
I craft for my guilds and make sets for people who don't have maxed crafters. Depending on whether I feel like doing quests or not I'll craft for randoms in starting zones. If they actually know they want a specific set I'll make that for them, if not I'll go to the "defaults" like Hundings and Julianos, or suggest Shacklebreaker or even Morkuldin's. Am I giving away "pay to win" gear because I'm making for players who haven't gotten the research done yet? :gasp: I'll even make sets from dlc for players who don't have the dlc.....
Julianos, Nightmother's Gaze, and Hunding's Rage? Torug's Pact for tanks? IDK about those being BIS, but I see them used in endgame type play, at least as a "This is the gear you wear to get your trial-dropped gear" type of gear.Edited by VaranisArano on March 5, 2018 6:31PM0 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭That's a lot of real money.
Sales pitch should be like...
Are you midway through researching a desired trait and you need to transmute a weapon to an unknown trait?
Pay money to reduce the research time by 15 days!
(or wait a couple weeks 
).
I don't know how I feel about this.
Edited by Dojohoda on March 5, 2018 6:35PMFan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's a lot of real money.
Midway through researching a desired trait? Need to transmute a weapon to an unknown trait? Pay money to reduce the research time by 15 days! (or wait a couple weeks).
I don't know how I feel about this.
You could wait a couple of weeks. Or you could farm that gear and hope for the desired trait to drop. Or you could research that trait on an alt and only wait 6 hours (expensive for nirnhoned, cheap for anything else). Or you could hire a crafter to make the item for you if its crafted.
If you have to transmute gear, I'd say its much cheaper to research that desired trait on an alt and only wait 6 hours than to buy a 5000 crown scroll.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
If this was 2014, and 9 trait crafters weren't all over the place (or, for that matter, 8 trait, because Nirnhoned didn't exist at launch), then, yeah... it'd be P2W on a couple counts.
Originally crafted gear was statistically superior to non-crafted, so being able to crank out Hundings, TBS, or Seducer would have been P2W.
Now? Not so much. The hidden +1 modifier that crafted gear got was purged back in 2015. There are 9 trait crafters all over the place if you do need something like TBS (just, don't go jerking us around and offering 2k gold without mats, or a stack of moonstone, that won't cover our crafting costs). At this point, the only thing these scrolls do is accelerate the process. Also, at 5k each, those are a horrible deal. Spend hundreds of dollars to skim a couple months off of a process that will, realistically, take you close to a year? Yeah, no thanks.
I'll be honest, I'm pretty apathetic on these. Not only are they a terrible value proposition, but there really isn't any power gain from them, just bypassing two weeks of research on 9, at most, items.1 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That's a lot of real money.
Sales pitch should be like...
Are you midway through researching a desired trait and you need to transmute a weapon to an unknown trait?
Pay money to reduce the research time by 15 days! (or wait a couple weeks ).
I don't know how I feel about this.
I just wait. If I were impatient and didn't mind spending 35€, I guess the offering is a good thing. I wouldn't "win" anything but I wouldn't have to wait.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake1 -
Goshua✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
If this was 2014, and 9 trait crafters weren't all over the place (or, for that matter, 8 trait, because Nirnhoned didn't exist at launch), then, yeah... it'd be P2W on a couple counts.
Originally crafted gear was statistically superior to non-crafted, so being able to crank out Hundings, TBS, or Seducer would have been P2W.
Now? Not so much. The hidden +1 modifier that crafted gear got was purged back in 2015. There are 9 trait crafters all over the place if you do need something like TBS (just, don't go jerking us around and offering 2k gold without mats, or a stack of moonstone, that won't cover our crafting costs). At this point, the only thing these scrolls do is accelerate the process. Also, at 5k each, those are a horrible deal. Spend hundreds of dollars to skim a couple months off of a process that will, realistically, take you close to a year? Yeah, no thanks.
I'll be honest, I'm pretty apathetic on these. Not only are they a terrible value proposition, but there really isn't any power gain from them, just bypassing two weeks of research on 9, at most, items.
Think I agree with you, its not a big deal and for the price, if people want to pay it they can knock themselves out.
If I had enough free funds Id buy for an alt so my main can have the skill points back.
It is not like its difficult to have gear made for you anyway, often for free.
Edited by Goshua on March 5, 2018 6:52PM0 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »That's a lot of real money.
Midway through researching a desired trait? Need to transmute a weapon to an unknown trait? Pay money to reduce the research time by 15 days! (or wait a couple weeks).
I don't know how I feel about this.
...
Or you could research that trait on an alt and only wait 6 hours ...
This ^^^ , no one should buy a scroll in order to transmute an item.
I have 2 9-trait crafters. A long time ago I would to learn traits on my alts to keep inventory clear of researchable items and so that the alt could make the item for the main crafter when it needed it.Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--0 -
rynth✭✭✭✭✭ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »i think community need to gather once more and hit hard and show a flow of pure anger to ZOS again, to solve this issue and force them to act
back in a days we raise a huge cry when they added Grand Crown exp scrolls in game
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/292748/it-will-always-be-items-worse-than-what-you-can-craft-topic/p1
as a result of 15 page thread, less than in a month ZOS added Aetherial Ambrosia with recipes
right now similar situation took place, but i think people just forgot, become lazy and too forgiving?
@ZOS_GinaBruno i must to ask you now, and it will be a huge voice from all community
WHERE is ingame version of this scrolls? I hope you not forgot to add them to Rollis Hlaalu?
Any plans to add them to the game later?
let the mortal combat begin
who really cares if someone wants to spend money to learn crafting traits fast. It's not like there aren't a ton of master crafters by now, heck a lot of people with same account and have multiple master crafters. If the game makes money then I'm all good with that. act like this is the end of the world or the game is ruinedWhen asked what he would do for a Klondike bar. Grand Moff Tarkin said "why I would blow up Alderaan."1 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
If this was 2014, and 9 trait crafters weren't all over the place (or, for that matter, 8 trait, because Nirnhoned didn't exist at launch), then, yeah... it'd be P2W on a couple counts.
Originally crafted gear was statistically superior to non-crafted, so being able to crank out Hundings, TBS, or Seducer would have been P2W.
Now? Not so much. The hidden +1 modifier that crafted gear got was purged back in 2015. There are 9 trait crafters all over the place if you do need something like TBS (just, don't go jerking us around and offering 2k gold without mats, or a stack of moonstone, that won't cover our crafting costs). At this point, the only thing these scrolls do is accelerate the process. Also, at 5k each, those are a horrible deal. Spend hundreds of dollars to skim a couple months off of a process that will, realistically, take you close to a year? Yeah, no thanks.
I'll be honest, I'm pretty apathetic on these. Not only are they a terrible value proposition, but there really isn't any power gain from them, just bypassing two weeks of research on 9, at most, items.
hey... i am a nine trait crafter.
and i'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly what it is i won.2 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
You win because you don't have to wait months....literally...months to level up your crafting traits. It's spoon feeding those players who in fact will pay to win. We might as well be able to pay to get lvl 50, and while we're at it you can buy cp points from crown store 1$ a point. Hell let's not stop there, you can buy vma and master weapons for 50$ a piece. Who need to run trials, you can now purchase gear in the crown store.
Considering the best gear in the game is dropped, not crafted, in no way is this pay to win, get over it. Yes, it took me over a year to become a master crafter...if someone wants to pay ridiculous amounts of money just to catch up...well, that is there decision, but the benefits are only saved time2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I can buy a full set of end game crafted gear with the traits i want and make it gold for 250k gold or less. In fact i just bought a full set of purple hunding's with divines and then upgraded it( and i bought the upgrade mats) for less than i paid for my medium home. It took me about 10 days of thieving to acquire it. Since this route is a completely viable( and also the cheaper) option, its not pay to win. In fact its far less of a pain even if you had research scrolls to just buy the gear unless you already have a master crafter.
Its simple logic:
* It takes X amount of time to acquire enough gold to buy gear and mats for improvement.
* It takes Y amount of time to level the required craft. If you dont buy mats to level the craft, it takes B amount of time to acquire the mats. If you buy the mats it takes C amount of gold to acquire the mats to level the craft which you have to take away from X above.
In no way, even if you have a thousand 15 day scrolls, is the second scenario easier, more efficient, or in any way better than the first .No matter how you spin it, its easier to buy the gear and improve it. So the entire argument that research scrolls somehow give you an end game advantage by allowing you to craft beginner end game gear is idiotic.
Edited by Anotherone773 on March 5, 2018 7:10PM2 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Although I could care less about whether or not they can be crafted, OP makes a good point, and it would be just another thing people can make gold by selling, so I agree. I don't agree that the current situation is p2w.0 -
Nihility42✭✭✭✭Where's the biased poll? I can't take a QQ post seriously without a biased poll to make fun of.
0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Is it a powerful new weapon in the store?
No? Ok.
Is it powerful new armour that’s better than any in game?
No? Oh. Ok then.
I didn’t realise you could “win” the game with crafting. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!3 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WakeYourGhost wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
You win being a 9-trait crafter faster?
But 9 trait sets are horrible. Actually, so are 7 and 8 trait sets for most content. This system seems to follow the "pay to lose" model. It's the new version of the broom and bucket
0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So I bought one of these research scrolls...
How exactly do I win with it now?
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
You win because you don't have to wait months....literally...months to level up your crafting traits. It's spoon feeding those players who in fact will pay to win. We might as well be able to pay to get lvl 50, and while we're at it you can buy cp points from crown store 1$ a point. Hell let's not stop there, you can buy vma and master weapons for 50$ a piece. Who need to run trials, you can now purchase gear in the crown store.
Which crafted set is actually bis for endgame Trials/Pvp? Are there any crafted sets that get used for endgame type play?
You can't buy the bis gear, armor or weapons. From what I've seen you also don't craft it, no matter how many traits you have researched. The bis gear is dropped or rewards from vma.
For the IMUSTDOEVERYTHINGMYSELF player, yes, you have to do the research. Otherwise ask a guildie crafter, or ask in zone for someone to make your gear. No research involved, although you'll probably have to get the mats and pay a tip/fee for it.
I craft for my guilds and make sets for people who don't have maxed crafters. Depending on whether I feel like doing quests or not I'll craft for randoms in starting zones. If they actually know they want a specific set I'll make that for them, if not I'll go to the "defaults" like Hundings and Julianos, or suggest Shacklebreaker or even Morkuldin's. Am I giving away "pay to win" gear because I'm making for players who haven't gotten the research done yet? :gasp: I'll even make sets from dlc for players who don't have the dlc.....
Julianos, Nightmother's Gaze, and Hunding's Rage? Torug's Pact for tanks? IDK about those being BIS, but I see them used in endgame type play, at least as a "This is the gear you wear to get your trial-dropped gear" type of gear.
"This is the gear you wear to get your dropped gear", yes. "Best" for whatever the fotm is at the moment, probably not. And the sets you noted aren't 9 traits, so less time invested than for the 9 trait sets, that still aren't the bis for "endgame" stuff. For the people who do the min/max gottogetthatlast .0001% damage, it matters. [I do pve stuff; my dk werewolf is perfectly fine wearing a mix of Hundings and Morkuldins. Kind of neat when she's transformed and the ghost sword shows up. I'm sure my setup would never work for pvp or trials.]0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »[snip]
back in a days we raise a huge cry when they added Grand Crown exp scrolls in game
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/292748/it-will-always-be-items-worse-than-what-you-can-craft-topic/p1
as a result of 15 page thread, less than in a month ZOS added Aetherial Ambrosia with recipes
right now similar situation took place, but i think people just forgot, become lazy and too forgiving?
@ZOS_GinaBruno i must to ask you now, and it will be a huge voice from all community
WHERE is ingame version of this scrolls? I hope you not forgot to add them to Rollis Hlaalu?
Any plans to add them to the game later?
[snip]
[Edited to remove problematic content]
Pretty sure your we can get something similar in game from the master writ merchant.
Also, your quoting about crafting an item that is like what can be bought for crowns. Basically something that the crown store doesn’t give a competitive advantage compared to what can already be obtained in game yet what your complaining about isn’t relative.Edited by idk on March 5, 2018 8:39PM0 -
Ronzar✭I've been playing this game off and on since the beta. I still don't have a full 9 trait crafter (call me lazy) and I'm doing just fine. I am in no way missing any part of the game by not having these high priced items. Doesn't seem very P2W to me. If they were trying to go for a P2W item they did a terrible job at it .
This is a company that needs to make money to keep the game running. If they can earn a little extra cash by an impatient player wanting to research faster, then by all means let them offer the item. And frankly I personally think they have done a good job keeping the game NOT P2W.2
