Suspensions for Update 17 XP Exploit

Emma_Overload

lordrichter wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

It's amazing how little information there is about this supposed exploit and how and when one could have triggered it.

When EXACTLY was the period this was supposedly happening? How exactly was it triggered? Just by killing mobs?

Killing mobs in Imperial City from about 11:30am ET to 3:20pm ET on Monday, February 12.

That's a tiny window of time for someone like me who plays in the IC regularly every week! Why didn't they just shut down the City and roll back XP gained during that time?

@ZOS_GinaBruno , do you know if they will take into account the fact that a player spends a lot of time in the Imperial City killing mobs (and players)?

Elsonso

Emma_Overload wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

It's amazing how little information there is about this supposed exploit and how and when one could have triggered it.

When EXACTLY was the period this was supposedly happening? How exactly was it triggered? Just by killing mobs?

Killing mobs in Imperial City from about 11:30am ET to 3:20pm ET on Monday, February 12.

That's a tiny window of time for someone like me who plays in the IC regularly every week! Why didn't they just shut down the City and roll back XP gained during that time?

@ZOS_GinaBruno , do you know if they will take into account the fact that a player spends a lot of time in the Imperial City killing mobs (and players)?

And, wanted to be clear. I forgot that PC EU went into overtime. 11:30 is when PC EU came up. PC NA was earlier than that by a couple hours. (maybe 9am ET?)

KingYogi415

So a brand new player could have grinded up 8 characters to max, and now gets to keep them?

Fischblut

frankly, seeing people with 1200 + CP is a little head scratchingly suspect

No need to exploit or grind zombies to get many CPs Took this today (for other reason though, but it also shows where one can earn nice exp without stupid grind):



I don't understand people who feel like they must grind for CPs - these things simply add up over long time. Like when someone not over CP cap says "omg you have 1000 cp; how do I get CP fast?" No idea about "fast", because mine took 2 years to accumulate.

VaranisArano

KingYogi415 wrote: »

So a brand new player could have grinded up 8 characters to max, and now gets to keep them?

From the dev post: "we will be removing all excess Champion Points from the account and resetting all skills."

So, unless you want to claim that someone leveling up 8 new characters wouldn't have gotten caught by ZOS and thus didn't get banned, no, that's not what's happening.

JJBoomer

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Ehh, idk about this one. Had it been 5m gold instead of xp, absolutely. But leveling characters affects no one but those doing so. In my opinion, this was a "ahh damn, fix the bug and move on" case. Sometimes things like this happen and when no achievements or collectibles/consumables are involved, I think it's best to just fix it and not let it happen again. It's nice to see Zos taking action, but I disagree with something that does not affect other players being a bannable offense.

That being said, if so many people are willing to exploit experience, maybe Zos should take a look at adding a character level token to the crown store.

I'm replying, not to be inflammatory, but to clarify.

The point is not that it affect other players or not. The point is that it violates the TOS (terms of service). A digital contract we all electronically sign before playing the game and using the product. And that's why this is punishable. Exploiting a bug for personal gain/advantage, regardless of effect on others, is a violation of that digital contract. Literally ALL online products have these contracts. The problem is, almost no one reads them lol.

Rickter

lordrichter wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

WTF, there's two of these guys?

Not the same people. I was here first!

Accounts were created the same time.

Elsonso

Rickter wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

WTF, there's two of these guys?

Not the same people. I was here first!

Accounts were created the same time.

Usurper! Mine was created the day before yours!

Juju_beans

Asgari wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Asgari wrote: »

So what happens to the few who went down there to kill players and got xp from others in their faction? Are they being punished for 2 weeks as well

I think the matter is clear. If you were there enough time as to CLEARLY see you were earning unusual and excesive amounts of XP... and you remained there, I think it doesn't matter if that XP came from your blade or the killings of your group.
 

What if you were there’s for 15 minutes? It was 1 million a mob? Doesn’t take long and if you are killing you won’t see it right away.

Go back and read the first post. Not everyone got suspended. Zos audited and banned those that took advantage.

Cpt_Teemo

KingYogi415 wrote: »

So a brand new player could have grinded up 8 characters to max, and now gets to keep them?

Doubt they would fit the time in to swap between them before they shut down the server

LordSemaj

Good.

fadingidealsb14_ESO

Can't argue with the decision to punish those who exploited with a temporary ban. Kinda feeling like two weeks is excessive, though.

I went to IC after hearing about the bug thinking it had to be an exaggeration, then stayed a bit because I was amused. Started recording a short clip to upload to Youtube. Made about 20-30 CP in the process (not the hundreds of CP some are assuming were needed to get banned), but given you were seeing 3-5 CP per minute? That's not exactly much time.

A few minutes of play, at that rate, was sufficient to garner two weeks of ban with the threat (for some) of permaban.

Again: punishment seems merited, but when you're banning players that have supported the game since beta for 15 or 30 minutes in a zone that was bugged? Seems excessive.

Still - even getting hit with the temp-ban myself, I'm glad you're making it clear that abuse won't be tolerated.

VaranisArano

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

So a brand new player could have grinded up 8 characters to max, and now gets to keep them?

Doubt they would fit the time in to swap between them before they shut down the server

Plus each character would have to quickly grind up to level 10 in order to travel to the Imperial City in the first place.

Emma_Overload

fadingidealsb14_ESO wrote: »

Can't argue with the decision to punish those who exploited with a temporary ban. Kinda feeling like two weeks is excessive, though.

I went to IC after hearing about the bug thinking it had to be an exaggeration, then stayed a bit because I was amused. Started recording a short clip to upload to Youtube. Made about 20-30 CP in the process (not the hundreds of CP some are assuming were needed to get banned), but given you were seeing 3-5 CP per minute? That's not exactly much time.

A few minutes of play, at that rate, was sufficient to garner two weeks of ban with the threat (for some) of permaban.

Again: punishment seems merited, but when you're banning players that have supported the game since beta for 15 or 30 minutes in a zone that was bugged? Seems excessive.

Still - even getting hit with the temp-ban myself, I'm glad you're making it clear that abuse won't be tolerated.

I was probably there for a few hours right after the patch went live. I was excited to see how the new interrupt changes worked, and IC is where I spend the vast majority of my time.

I really hope that people who read this thread, including ZOS employees like @ZOS_GinaBruno , realize that not everyone prefers Cyrodiil or PVE dungeons... there really are players who LOVE playing in the Imperial City. It's a shame that some of us are being punished for simply doing what we love.

Also I don't understand at all why people in this thread assume that all players are constantly monitoring their XP gain. Why would anyone beyond CP cap with all skills leveled care about XP?

Baconlad

I exploited in a different way. XD.
I knew there were going to be tons of players in IC sewers. I was already farming up top in the city for TV, I went down there and low and behold, there were tons of players.

Made my way to the center after gaining maybe 3 unintentional CP. And i had one of the best meV 3 I think I've ever had. I love small scale PVP, too bad it took an exploit to get players into IC sewers agian...

fadingidealsb14_ESO

Emma_Overload wrote: »

fadingidealsb14_ESO wrote: »

Can't argue with the decision to punish those who exploited with a temporary ban. Kinda feeling like two weeks is excessive, though.

I went to IC after hearing about the bug thinking it had to be an exaggeration, then stayed a bit because I was amused. Started recording a short clip to upload to Youtube. Made about 20-30 CP in the process (not the hundreds of CP some are assuming were needed to get banned), but given you were seeing 3-5 CP per minute? That's not exactly much time.

A few minutes of play, at that rate, was sufficient to garner two weeks of ban with the threat (for some) of permaban.

Again: punishment seems merited, but when you're banning players that have supported the game since beta for 15 or 30 minutes in a zone that was bugged? Seems excessive.

Still - even getting hit with the temp-ban myself, I'm glad you're making it clear that abuse won't be tolerated.

I was probably there for a few hours right after the patch went live. I was excited to see how the new interrupt changes worked, and IC is where I spend the vast majority of my time.

I really hope that people who read this thread, including ZOS employees like @ZOS_GinaBruno , realize that not everyone prefers Cyrodiil or PVE dungeons... there really are players who LOVE playing in the Imperial City. It's a shame that some of us are being punished for simply doing what we love.

Also I don't understand at all why people in this thread assume that all players are constantly monitoring their XP gain. Why would anyone beyond CP cap with all skills leveled care about XP?

Eh, I saw the experience boost - not going to pretend I didn't. But seeing a broken mechanic I assumed was getting rolled back? I thought it was amusing and recorded a 1 minute clip, joked around a bit, and that was it. All the posts saying 'hey, you exploited, you got what you deserved' - I half agree with. Those who gained 100+ CP? That's not just playing with a broken mechanic, that's farming a bug.

But those that spent under an hour in the zone with far less CP to show for it? Doesn't seem like the same standard, and a one-size-fits-all response doesn't seem the logical course of action. Doubt voicing that opinion makes much difference, but figure it merits saying.

KingYogi415

VaranisArano wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

So a brand new player could have grinded up 8 characters to max, and now gets to keep them?

From the dev post: "we will be removing all excess Champion Points from the account and resetting all skills."

So, unless you want to claim that someone leveling up 8 new characters wouldn't have gotten caught by ZOS and thus didn't get banned, no, that's not what's happening.

What part of removing champions points and resetting skills means they are deleting characters?

LordSemaj

Emma_Overload wrote: »

fadingidealsb14_ESO wrote: »

Can't argue with the decision to punish those who exploited with a temporary ban. Kinda feeling like two weeks is excessive, though.

I went to IC after hearing about the bug thinking it had to be an exaggeration, then stayed a bit because I was amused. Started recording a short clip to upload to Youtube. Made about 20-30 CP in the process (not the hundreds of CP some are assuming were needed to get banned), but given you were seeing 3-5 CP per minute? That's not exactly much time.

A few minutes of play, at that rate, was sufficient to garner two weeks of ban with the threat (for some) of permaban.

Again: punishment seems merited, but when you're banning players that have supported the game since beta for 15 or 30 minutes in a zone that was bugged? Seems excessive.

Still - even getting hit with the temp-ban myself, I'm glad you're making it clear that abuse won't be tolerated.

I was probably there for a few hours right after the patch went live. I was excited to see how the new interrupt changes worked, and IC is where I spend the vast majority of my time.

I really hope that people who read this thread, including ZOS employees like @ZOS_GinaBruno , realize that not everyone prefers Cyrodiil or PVE dungeons... there really are players who LOVE playing in the Imperial City. It's a shame that some of us are being punished for simply doing what we love.

Also I don't understand at all why people in this thread assume that all players are constantly monitoring their XP gain. Why would anyone beyond CP cap with all skills leveled care about XP?

No one is assuming people are monitoring their XP gains. The XP gains were high enough that you would have gained a CP point every kill. People are assuming you were noticing the spam on the front of your screen. It doesn't matter if you care about the XP or not, you illegally gained it by abusing a bug instead of walking away from IC and saying "This doesn't seem right". As only 276 accounts were suspended, it didn't happen to everyone in IC. Only people who were clearly and obviously exploiting the situation. There were even people in IC advertising groups during the bug and using XP scrolls.

Whether you enjoy playing or not, you don't continue playing when you're getting ten thousand times the reward. Player accountability is a personal matter and you are responsible for your own choices. If you don't understand why it's wrong then just take it at face value that it's wrong and learn to never do it again. Any time you spot a bug that is giving you more than it should, immediately report it and stay away from doing it. This is not the first time ESO has had a bug of this nature. Infinite XP from repeatable quest turn-ins and infinite skill points from killing the same bugged public dungeon boss have existed with account action levied against those individuals as well.

If you were oblivious to why this matters then fear not and take the punishment and learn from it. This isn't something players are permitted to do regardless of whether they care about the gains or not.

Cpt_Teemo

KingYogi415 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

So a brand new player could have grinded up 8 characters to max, and now gets to keep them?

From the dev post: "we will be removing all excess Champion Points from the account and resetting all skills."

So, unless you want to claim that someone leveling up 8 new characters wouldn't have gotten caught by ZOS and thus didn't get banned, no, that's not what's happening.

What part of removing champions points and resetting skills means they are deleting characters?

They'll probably revert them back to level 1 tbh

VaranisArano

KingYogi415 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

So a brand new player could have grinded up 8 characters to max, and now gets to keep them?

From the dev post: "we will be removing all excess Champion Points from the account and resetting all skills."

So, unless you want to claim that someone leveling up 8 new characters wouldn't have gotten caught by ZOS and thus didn't get banned, no, that's not what's happening.

What part of removing champions points and resetting skills means they are deleting characters?

There's nothing wrong with creating new characters. If they did that, they've got 8 brand new characters with roll-back exp and skills. I hope they like them.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

Turelus

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Also I don't understand at all why people in this thread assume that all players are constantly monitoring their XP gain. Why would anyone beyond CP cap with all skills leveled care about XP?

Unless someone plays with UI disabled it's going to pretty obvious that something is happening when they're getting one or more CP with every group of mobs killed. If someone wasn't able to notice that something seemed off after 10 mins they must be pretty oblivious.

As for your own situation if you want to contest it you're best doing it via a ticket and direct to ZOS via private channels. They won't speak openly with people on the forums about it due to their policies.

eirinnpryderi

Well......kinda fair of a punishment, its not a account termination....and it shouldn't be anyways, despite the player attitude, the main error here was from Zenimax, Dragon Bones came with a lot of errors...so the fault should be shared equally

LordSemaj

eirinnpryderi wrote: »

Well......kinda fair of a punishment, its not a account termination....and it shouldn't be anyways, despite the player attitude, the main error here was from Zenimax, Dragon Bones came with a lot of errors...so the fault should be shared equally

True enough. It's not the players' fault the bug existed. It's the players' fault for not stopping after the bug was discovered.

Cpt_Teemo

eirinnpryderi wrote: »

Well......kinda fair of a punishment, its not a account termination....and it shouldn't be anyways, despite the player attitude, the main error here was from Zenimax, Dragon Bones came with a lot of errors...so the fault should be shared equally

We already know that nothing is perfect, so therefore we have the obligation of upholding the ToS and not to disobey it cause then otherwise why would we call these MMO games an online game anymore, they would just become another single player game but with other people in it.

eirinnpryderi

LordSemaj wrote: »

eirinnpryderi wrote: »

Well......kinda fair of a punishment, its not a account termination....and it shouldn't be anyways, despite the player attitude, the main error here was from Zenimax, Dragon Bones came with a lot of errors...so the fault should be shared equally

True enough. It's not the players' fault the bug existed. It's the players' fault for not stopping after the bug was discovered.

Being constructive, ZOS should made a more smart move like they did in EU, not lifting the patch until 12 hours later, also what doesn't keep players in check its the lack of GMs...in my 7k hours of ESO never saw one...if they were around and were saw often, players would find both secure and intimidated by their prescence in game, and that should minimize the amount of exploits by a good margin

usmcjdking

Appropriate punishment.

Turelus

eirinnpryderi wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

eirinnpryderi wrote: »

Well......kinda fair of a punishment, its not a account termination....and it shouldn't be anyways, despite the player attitude, the main error here was from Zenimax, Dragon Bones came with a lot of errors...so the fault should be shared equally

True enough. It's not the players' fault the bug existed. It's the players' fault for not stopping after the bug was discovered.

Being constructive, ZOS should made a more smart move like they did in EU, not lifting the patch until 12 hours later, also what doesn't keep players in check its the lack of GMs...in my 7k hours of ESO never saw one...if they were around and were saw often, players would find both secure and intimidated by their prescence in game, and that should minimize the amount of exploits by a good margin

You don't need GM's to keep players in check. There are logs which show which players are bad and a ToS to tell you not to abuse bugs you find.

The fact ZOS suspended 276 accounts one week later shows how the current system works fine. People abused something, they got punished.

The only thing I feel ZOS could do better is to push in game notifications out or update forums/launcher where possible to give more warnings. Something like "We're aware of a current XP exploit, anyone abusing it will be punished accordingly" sent across the server.

Cpt_Teemo

Turelus wrote: »

eirinnpryderi wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

eirinnpryderi wrote: »

Well......kinda fair of a punishment, its not a account termination....and it shouldn't be anyways, despite the player attitude, the main error here was from Zenimax, Dragon Bones came with a lot of errors...so the fault should be shared equally

True enough. It's not the players' fault the bug existed. It's the players' fault for not stopping after the bug was discovered.

Being constructive, ZOS should made a more smart move like they did in EU, not lifting the patch until 12 hours later, also what doesn't keep players in check its the lack of GMs...in my 7k hours of ESO never saw one...if they were around and were saw often, players would find both secure and intimidated by their prescence in game, and that should minimize the amount of exploits by a good margin

You don't need GM's to keep players in check. There are logs which show which players are bad and a ToS to tell you not to abuse bugs you find.

The fact ZOS suspended 276 accounts one week later shows how the current system works fine. People abused something, they got punished.

The only thing I feel ZOS could do better is to push in game notifications out or update forums/launcher where possible to give more warnings. Something like "We're aware of a current XP exploit, anyone abusing it will be punished accordingly" sent across the server.

Problem with that is they don't want people to know about current exploits as well cause you know people will just go straight ahead and do them anyway

LordSemaj

eirinnpryderi wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

eirinnpryderi wrote: »

Well......kinda fair of a punishment, its not a account termination....and it shouldn't be anyways, despite the player attitude, the main error here was from Zenimax, Dragon Bones came with a lot of errors...so the fault should be shared equally

True enough. It's not the players' fault the bug existed. It's the players' fault for not stopping after the bug was discovered.

Being constructive, ZOS should made a more smart move like they did in EU, not lifting the patch until 12 hours later, also what doesn't keep players in check its the lack of GMs...in my 7k hours of ESO never saw one...if they were around and were saw often, players would find both secure and intimidated by their prescence in game, and that should minimize the amount of exploits by a good margin

The GMs are there, they just rarely chat. I've seen one in Craglorn last month.

Turelus wrote: »

The only thing I feel ZOS could do better is to push in game notifications out or update forums/launcher where possible to give more warnings. Something like "We're aware of a current XP exploit, anyone abusing it will be punished accordingly" sent across the server.

They did one better. They shutdown the servers for emergency maintenance once the bug was confirmed. Once it was reported they looked into it and when they verified it was a widely reproducible bug, they went offline.

Turelus

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

eirinnpryderi wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

eirinnpryderi wrote: »

Well......kinda fair of a punishment, its not a account termination....and it shouldn't be anyways, despite the player attitude, the main error here was from Zenimax, Dragon Bones came with a lot of errors...so the fault should be shared equally

True enough. It's not the players' fault the bug existed. It's the players' fault for not stopping after the bug was discovered.

Being constructive, ZOS should made a more smart move like they did in EU, not lifting the patch until 12 hours later, also what doesn't keep players in check its the lack of GMs...in my 7k hours of ESO never saw one...if they were around and were saw often, players would find both secure and intimidated by their prescence in game, and that should minimize the amount of exploits by a good margin

You don't need GM's to keep players in check. There are logs which show which players are bad and a ToS to tell you not to abuse bugs you find.

The fact ZOS suspended 276 accounts one week later shows how the current system works fine. People abused something, they got punished.

The only thing I feel ZOS could do better is to push in game notifications out or update forums/launcher where possible to give more warnings. Something like "We're aware of a current XP exploit, anyone abusing it will be punished accordingly" sent across the server.

Problem with that is they don't want people to know about current exploits as well cause you know people will just go straight ahead and do them anyway

You don't say how or where and you back up the threats. It works fine for other MMO companies, if people know you'll take action they're less likely to go jump on the band wagon. ZOS is getting a good reputation for actions now.

For anyone stupid enough to actually find out and go do it, they would enjoy their ban as well.