Was it OK for ZoS to remove abilities purchased with collector's editions?

Aliyavana

this is a non issue, you couldn't convert 95 percent of the items that players actually use anyways and with the outfit system atleast you can wear the motif all the time

xeNNNNN

smacky wrote: »

I think you guys are missing the point.

While the OP's poll was a joke of epic proportions, I think it reflects the change of a PAID function.

We PAID for Imperial edition. Anybody can buy the Motif or find it, and therefore craft it at a station.
So what the hell did wee pay for?

I am seriously considering requesting a refund for the Imperial Upgrade and taking is to Consumer Affairs if they deny it, since all I really got extra now was a horse, andd since eveyone gets a free horse at Level 10 now, I have lost something I Paid REAL MONEY for.

This is the OP's point. We paid for something, and they have taken it away. If you bought a new car took it for a service and got it back with no air-con you would be angry. How is this any different?

In the marketing part of ZoS's mind, you actually made a choice too purchase the imperial edition and got what you wanted. What came after was merely cause and effect and you still got what you payed for.

They dont care if the marketing was essentially "yes you will get all of these exclusively but by the way we will make some of it available for all later on because we cant commit to anything because money".

In other words. People complained, those who brought got somewhat screwed and those who complained got what they wanted mostly. They caved basically.

Ultravylence

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

aliyavana wrote: »

this is a non issue, you couldn't convert 95 percent of the items that players actually use anyways and with the outfit system atleast you can wear the motif all the time

...even players who do their theory-crafting on You-tube are using crafted gear liberally in their builds these days. No worries, it seems ZOS will soon be coming after all crafted styles, in an effort to herd folks to Outfits and Crown Store sales of additional slots and change tokens.

Jhalin

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Here's an actual working example: I have an Imperial Warden tank. He uses fancy Imperial gear. For trials, he uses S+B frontbar and backbar. Because I'm using Green Pact and Plague Doctor, that means I'm using the Outfit system to make it all look like fancy Imperial gear. However, depending on the circumstances, I sometimes switch to a Fortitude 2H greatsword or resto staff.

Under the old system, no problem: I just convert them to Imperial style, and I'm good to go. Under the new system, if I want to use these items somewhere that isn't near an Outfitting station, I'm stuck using whatever style they originally dropped in, because only my S+B/S+B can be changed to a different style in a single Outfit slot (I would need to buy another 1500 Crown Outfit slot if I wanted apply that style to more than two weapon sets, and I'd similarly need to pay to dye all the armor pieces the same color, etc.).

So, yes. This change actually does matter.

@OrdoHermetica You actually can create displays for every weapon type on a single Outfit. I got curious and messed around with the items, and you can have saved styled for weapons that are not currently equipped, so they'll display as you want them when you switch things up. Dyes might be saved per-weapon type, but I'm not 100% sure.

You have to go through every weapon type (1H main, 1H off, 2H, Bow, Resto, Destro, and Shield) assign it's style while it's equipped. S+B and Dual Wielding both use the same 1H style, haven't been able to change that.

Each of those can have a style assigned to it in the same outfit slot.

Doesn't help with the Converters being part of an unnecessary gold sink, but I was pleasantly surprised to find out I could do this with the Outfit System.

edit: Did some more testing. For every bar, styles AND colors are saved across weapon types individually. So you could unequip a dagger that displayed gold dyes and Breton style, and equip a shield that will display red dyes and Morag Tong style. Front bar will have its own saved variables, so you can assign different colors to backbar weapons that will apply different colors and styles than that item would display if it was on the front bar.

Coatmagic

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

Okay, so it's been nearly a week, and still not one word from ZoS.

No response to emails, messages, or multiple bug / feedback reports.

On top of that, I see this thread slowly turning into 'how great the new outfit system is' when that has nothing to do with what ZoS removed from the game.

All I can say at this point is that I sincerely wish and hope that every single one of you who find this amusing LOSE something that you PAID for.

NewBlacksmurf

Coatmagic wrote: »

Okay, so it's been nearly a week, and still not one word from ZoS.

No response to emails, messages, or multiple bug / feedback reports.

On top of that, I see this thread slowly turning into 'how great the new outfit system is' when that has nothing to do with what ZoS removed from the game.

All I can say at this point is that I sincerely wish and hope that every single one of you who find this amusing LOSE something that you PAID for.

@Coatmagic
Possibly many people didn’t/couldn’t use the feature beforehand so to some, they think it’s great because now they are using it.

One of the big issues prior was you couldn’t change set world drops so for that group, they like the change.

Not sure why one group had to loose a feature while a new system was created for another feature. Seems odd but I’d be curious if @ZOS_GinaBruno would pose the question and get a response.

“Why did the developer team choose to remove the original feature, instead of leaving it as it was? Couldn’t they have also added the new feature and kept the functionality of the old?”

See I’m more curious what actually changed because once we get the update on console, I’m thinking more will come out. So far it’s a bar swap and lag issue. I’m fairly certain artwork layers were removed in 2014 for lag, so I’d be interested to see if this new feature added back a once removed performance update.

peacenote

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

Can anyone confirm or deny if the converting option worked for master writs before the update?

Got a nice, high number writ for the Morag Tong style. Was psyched to possibly make an item and convert it to meet the requirement of the writ. Made item, tried to convert, was told I have to use the outfit system now. But I don't want the piece to look like Morag Tong, I want it to be Morag Tong!

Sure seems like a loss of functionality to me, but I'll admit I never tried fulfilling a writ before the patch, since I never got a Morag Tong or Imperial style writ to drop before this weekend.

Also seems to me that there was no need to remove the converter functionality to implement the Outfit system. Both could have co-existed without issue from what I can tell.

I'm not thrown into a fit of rage by the idea that I have to go get the actual motifs now, but it sure does seem like there would be room for both an outfit system and a real transmorg system in this game. That, plus the ability to hide certain slots in the outfit system altogether, would be really nice.

Lazrael

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

I like most of what the outfit system does, though I think gold for dying items is utterly absurd.
I had to earn the dyes, and pay gold to convert the style of the item, why do I have to pay gold to now dye the item?

That said, I do think some form of reimbursement, maybe even just a crown buyback to the folks who purchased the collector's editions would be appropriate and respectful.

In the end, I'm stuck in the same place I usually am with ESO, I love the game, but I'm not sure it loves me back.
I'm the battered lover who JUST CAN'T QUIT YOU!!!!

But in all seriousness, ESO is a solid game with a lot of heart in the design but bad business practices, nothing new.

qbkitsune

peacenote wrote: »

Can anyone confirm or deny if the converting option worked for master writs before the update?

The converters bound the converted item to your account, so I don’t think you could turn those in for writs. I could be wrong though since my crafter has the motifs so I never tried it.

Ultravylence

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

Well, I melted my Gold Hunding Bow made in random cheap style this week. I had intended to CONVERT to Morag Tong before finding out how our Converters where taken away.

Instead, I had to spend many thousands of gold on a Morag Tong Bow Motif. Re-crafted the Bow of Hunding Rage as Morag Tong. Golded out AGAIN. Enchanted AGAIN. NOW in fact I have the equivalent item to one that had been CONVERTED prior to this change.

My bow now shares the Morag Tong icon set in my inventory and reads "Morag-Tong Style" when you review the item. What an absolute waste of my time and in game resources to simply replace a function I had already paid USD for.

Coatmagic

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

Sorry, but since I've still not heard from anyone at ZoS, would like to keep this poll at the top of the list.

Heck, maybe one of the 'watchers of the boards' will chastise me...

at least then it would feel like someone at ZoS was at least noticing o.O

Aliyavana

Ultravylence wrote: »

Well, I melted my Gold Hunding Bow made in random cheap style this week. I had intended to CONVERT to Morag Tong before finding out how our Converters where taken away.

Instead, I had to spend many thousands of gold on a Morag Tong Bow Motif. Re-crafted the Bow of Hunding Rage as Morag Tong. Golded out AGAIN. Enchanted AGAIN. NOW in fact I have the equivalent item to one that had been CONVERTED prior to this change.

My bow now shares the Morag Tong icon set in my inventory and reads "Morag-Tong Style" when you review the item. What an absolute waste of my time and in game resources to simply replace a function I had already paid USD for.

Or if you bothered to read the patch notes you'd know that if you owned the converter you can use the outfit appearance of Morag tong for free. This isn't too big of a deal guys and it's free to use Morag tong appearances if you own collectors.

You couldn't convert 95 percent of items in this game so this change is an improvement

VaranisArano

aliyavana wrote: »

Ultravylence wrote: »

Well, I melted my Gold Hunding Bow made in random cheap style this week. I had intended to CONVERT to Morag Tong before finding out how our Converters where taken away.

Instead, I had to spend many thousands of gold on a Morag Tong Bow Motif. Re-crafted the Bow of Hunding Rage as Morag Tong. Golded out AGAIN. Enchanted AGAIN. NOW in fact I have the equivalent item to one that had been CONVERTED prior to this change.

My bow now shares the Morag Tong icon set in my inventory and reads "Morag-Tong Style" when you review the item. What an absolute waste of my time and in game resources to simply replace a function I had already paid USD for.

Or if you bothered to read the patch notes you'd know that if you owned the converter you can use the outfit appearance of Morag tong for free. This isn't too big of a deal guys and it's free to use Morag tong appearances if you own collectors.

You couldn't convert 95 percent of items in this game so this change is an improvement

Well, except for people who used and converted crafted gear (that's more than 5% of the gear in the game, thanks) or people who deconstructed converted gear for the style mat. They are SOL.

Ultravylence

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

aliyavana wrote: »

Or if you bothered to read the patch notes you'd know that if you owned the converter you can use the outfit appearance of Morag tong for free. This isn't too big of a deal guys and it's free to use Morag tong appearances if you own collectors.

You couldn't convert 95 percent of items in this game so this change is an improvement

From PC/Mac Patch Notes v3.3.5

"Converting

-"Convert to Imperial" and "Convert to Morag Tong" are no longer used from the inventory on specific items, and are instead incorporated into the Outfit System.

-If you possess these collectibles, the Imperial and Morag Tong Outfit Styles are automatically available, and do not cost gold to apply to your Outfits. This means anyone with these account upgrades can choose to make any Outfit slot on any character appear in the Morag Tong or Imperial style free of cost, without actually modifying the item itself."

The patch notes themselves never state that the function of the Converters was even changed. They DO state the function has moved from Inventory to the Outfit system. They also state one "can choose" to make an Outfit slot appear as these styles free of cost. No where do they state the entire function has been removed from the game; "incorporated into the outfit system" would not imply the function has changed. The language "can choose to make any outfit slot..." would also imply this to be an additional function of the converters.

No place in the patch notes does ZOS state the product customers purchased was changed in any way other than incorporated into the outfit system (ie. menu has moved).

Bottom line, customers paid real currency for a feature addition to their accounts. This feature has been taken away from those of us who cared to leverage what we bought.

MrsPink

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

It's not being able to convert as before that is the issue here.

WE NOW HAVE TO PAY GOLD TO DYE SOMETHING WE COULD HAVE DYED FOR FREE IF THEY HADN'T CHANGED IT.

Valen_Byte

You can still do it. You just have to go to the station. It costs nothing to change to Imperial or Morag Tong if you had those perks to begin with. Also, its even better now because you can change the sets that you could not before.

MrsPink

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

Valen_Byte wrote: »

You can still do it. You just have to go to the station. It costs nothing to change to Imperial or Morag Tong if you had those perks to begin with. Also, its even better now because you can change the sets that you could not before.

Yes, It doesn't cost to convert, but it now costs to dye.

Valen_Byte

MrsPink wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

You can still do it. You just have to go to the station. It costs nothing to change to Imperial or Morag Tong if you had those perks to begin with. Also, its even better now because you can change the sets that you could not before.

Yes, It doesn't cost to convert, but it now costs to dye.

True but not much.

Ultravylence

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

Valen_Byte wrote: »

You can still do it. You just have to go to the station. It costs nothing to change to Imperial or Morag Tong if you had those perks to begin with. Also, its even better now because you can change the sets that you could not before.

This is not at all what folks are upset about. To be clear, the argument being made has nothing to do with what we CAN do now with the Outfit system. It is focused on what the CE Converter's purchased can no longer do in game. No argument that the converter's where limited in function prior to the Outfit change.

BUT the function they did perform was very specific and most likely why folks purchased Collector's Editions if this was appealing.

Aspects of Converted Gear vs. Outfit Station Overlay:

Functions Lost:
-Icon of the item is changed in inventory to match icon style of the set.
-Flavor text of the items is changed to denote the style of the item.
-With NO outfit equipped, you can see the style of a converted item.
-A converted item has ZERO gold cost to dye.
-A converted item will allow extraction of the appropriate style material.
-Being able to change gear and see the change appear in game. Now one must equip a pre-defined Outfit overlay each time gear is changed to get the visual change in game.

Functions Gained:
+Can now change the in game look of ALL gear with the Outfit overlay to the CE Converter styles.

This would not make myself or others nearly as upset if real currency was not paid for this specific feature.

MrsPink

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

Valen_Byte wrote: »

MrsPink wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

You can still do it. You just have to go to the station. It costs nothing to change to Imperial or Morag Tong if you had those perks to begin with. Also, its even better now because you can change the sets that you could not before.

Yes, It doesn't cost to convert, but it now costs to dye.

True but not much.

I agree, but it still is now a situation where players need to pay, for a perk they have already bought with RL money. That isn't ok. However insignificant the amount is. And who gets their colors right on the first try when they use the dye station? How many doesn't run back into light to check what it looks like?

Eddyble

Ultravylence wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Or if you bothered to read the patch notes you'd know that if you owned the converter you can use the outfit appearance of Morag tong for free. This isn't too big of a deal guys and it's free to use Morag tong appearances if you own collectors.

You couldn't convert 95 percent of items in this game so this change is an improvement

From PC/Mac Patch Notes v3.3.5

"Converting

-"Convert to Imperial" and "Convert to Morag Tong" are no longer used from the inventory on specific items, and are instead incorporated into the Outfit System.

-If you possess these collectibles, the Imperial and Morag Tong Outfit Styles are automatically available, and do not cost gold to apply to your Outfits. This means anyone with these account upgrades can choose to make any Outfit slot on any character appear in the Morag Tong or Imperial style free of cost, without actually modifying the item itself."

The patch notes themselves never state that the function of the Converters was even changed. They DO state the function has moved from Inventory to the Outfit system. They also state one "can choose" to make an Outfit slot appear as these styles free of cost. No where do they state the entire function has been removed from the game; "incorporated into the outfit system" would not imply the function has changed. The language "can choose to make any outfit slot..." would also imply this to be an additional function of the converters.

No place in the patch notes does ZOS state the product customers purchased was changed in any way other than incorporated into the outfit system (ie. menu has moved).

Bottom line, customers paid real currency for a feature addition to their accounts. This feature has been taken away from those of us who cared to leverage what we bought.

But you didn't highlight the part that is the issue at hand...

-If you possess these collectibles, the Imperial and Morag Tong Outfit Styles are automatically available, and do not cost gold to apply to your Outfits. This means anyone with these account upgrades can choose to make any Outfit slot on any character appear in the Morag Tong or Imperial style free of cost, without actually modifying the item itself"

SO, yes we can make them look like those style and for most its a plus but it still has to be acknowledged that they're not the same and dependent on view, it may not be better. As well as, like the OP was about, a function that was part of a paid product has been removed.

Valen_Byte

MrsPink wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

MrsPink wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

You can still do it. You just have to go to the station. It costs nothing to change to Imperial or Morag Tong if you had those perks to begin with. Also, its even better now because you can change the sets that you could not before.

Yes, It doesn't cost to convert, but it now costs to dye.

True but not much.

I agree, but it still is now a situation where players need to pay, for a perk they have already bought with RL money. That isn't ok. However insignificant the amount is. And who gets their colors right on the first try when they use the dye station? How many doesn't run back into light to check what it looks like?

After 4 years and 1000+ hrs, I find I have to pick my battles with Zo$. If I get 'passionate' about every issue, Ill hate this game. I find it helps when dealing with Zo$'s bs to have a slightly broken give a ***.

That being said, I get where you are coming from. Its just one more thing that gets changed. Not unlike a class or skill nerf. This is a Pve nerf. I never cared much about the converters to begin with. Lets be honest, we bought the statue and the book. The other crap is just filler for the price tag. If people where abusing the system by converting things just to sell the style mat, then that may have played a part in this change by Zo$. Just a thought.

Coatmagic

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

Since most of what ZoS does doesn't interfere with my enjoyment of the game, I've taken all the changes with a grain of salt.

This change does interfere... and every time I'm out in the field on my low level characters and pick up some ugly new thing, I am reminded.

Also, posts being ignored and emails and reports from in game... yeah, just keeping me annoyed. Be nice if someone from the company would have the balls to at least tell me to *** off.

dsalter

Not my circus; not my monkeys...

if i recall, it lets us transform them via outfitter for free.

Slick_007

Coatmagic wrote: »

This is all I could find. The Imperial Edition info has been *tidied up* for lack of a better word.
No where does it state that 'by the way, we will be forcing you to use a station & charging you dye these items in the future'... How anyone in this community can support ZoS in this stupidity is beyond me.

this is exactly what is written on the CE box, and tis still true in full.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Back in launch that feature was kind of cool because we didn't have costumes and crafted gear was very useful back then. It just wasn't a huge selling point for me with Morrowind because the predominant sets and abundance of costumes. This feature's utility has been diminishing over time IMO.

DeadlyRecluse

Not my circus; not my monkeys...

I don't fully understand this poll option, but I chose it.

Sinolai

Not my circus; not my monkeys...

This poll is stupid. where is the "I am okay with this"?
Got both imperial edition and morrrowind pre-order. Dont miss the convert to x style that couldnt be used on 99% of items and made it possible to accidently convert your favourite item into mismatch disaster (did it once). I am happy with free good looking imperial pieces on my outfits

Ultravylence

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

Ok ZOS, I think I see the problem and how to get some attention on this matter. Levying praise upon recent changes and efforts seems to attract moderator attention best. So here it goes....

I personally wanted to thank ZOS for the recent changes to the Collector's Edition Converter's in addition to the introduction of the Outfit system. With the changes detailed throughout this forum post, I was given a new found opportunity to spend an additional $30 on two costume slots (for my main character only). Now that the problem of finding something to throw money at is settled, I was able to create 2 new additional Outfit's using the Collectors Edition Morag Tong and Imperial converters. I have been waiting for a very long time to burn that $30 USD on something I thought I had already purchased, again thank you for this solution!

*Bonus happiness was also discovered by spending in game gold to now dye both my Morag Tong and Imperial Outfits. I was actually just thinking the ESO+ perk to dye gear for free was getting boring.

SkyIsTheLimit1206

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!

smacky wrote: »

I think you guys are missing the point.

While the OP's poll was a joke of epic proportions, I think it reflects the change of a PAID function.

We PAID for Imperial edition. Anybody can buy the Motif or find it, and therefore craft it at a station.
So what the hell did wee pay for?

I am seriously considering requesting a refund for the Imperial Upgrade and taking is to Consumer Affairs if they deny it, since all I really got extra now was a horse, andd since eveyone gets a free horse at Level 10 now, I have lost something I Paid REAL MONEY for.

This is the OP's point. We paid for something, and they have taken it away. If you bought a new car took it for a service and got it back with no air-con you would be angry. How is this any different?

... you got the Imperial Race man. Isn't that like the main point of the Imperial Edition?!