Was it OK for ZoS to remove abilities purchased with collector's editions?
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OrdoHermetica✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!Here's an actual working example: I have an Imperial Warden tank. He uses fancy Imperial gear. For trials, he uses S+B frontbar and backbar. Because I'm using Green Pact and Plague Doctor, that means I'm using the Outfit system to make it all look like fancy Imperial gear. However, depending on the circumstances, I sometimes switch to a Fortitude 2H greatsword or resto staff.
Under the old system, no problem: I just convert them to Imperial style, and I'm good to go. Under the new system, if I want to use these items somewhere that isn't near an Outfitting station, I'm stuck using whatever style they originally dropped in, because only my S+B/S+B can be changed to a different style in a single Outfit slot (I would need to buy another 1500 Crown Outfit slot if I wanted apply that style to more than two weapon sets, and I'd similarly need to pay to dye all the armor pieces the same color, etc.).
So, yes. This change actually does matter.2 -
jaye63✭✭✭✭OrdoHermetica wrote: »
Then you're not looking... Outfit 1, hats... all the way to the right and 5th row down... Imperial hat 1 imperial hat 2 imperial hat 3.
Dunno where you'r elooking but it aint there. And the "application cost" is ZERO. You need to dive in a actually look. If you need help... ask. But dont spread false information.
No, I'm looking. I know what you're saying. You're just not reading what I'M saying.
An Outfit slot is not the same thing as converting an item. In the old system, if you converted an item, you ACTUALLY converted it. It became the new style. Permanently. In the new system, it just LOOKS like the new style - but that takes up an Outfit slot and is on a character-by-character basis. If you put your Breton bow that you set up to look like an Imperial bow into the bank and another character grabs it, it's back to being a Breton bow.
Again, these are fundamentally different things.
That's actually more understandable. I get it. Isnt this a bonus tho? Not only do you get to skin it but you get to keep the original as well. Meh... tastes great vs less filling. The one thing I will join in on tho is that you could color the item for free before but now it costs. That's just not kewl.0 -
SilverIce58✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrdoHermetica wrote: »Here's an actual working example: I have an Imperial Warden tank. He uses fancy Imperial gear. For trials, he uses S+B frontbar and backbar. Because I'm using Green Pact and Plague Doctor, that means I'm using the Outfit system to make it all look like fancy Imperial gear. However, depending on the circumstances, I sometimes switch to a Fortitude 2H greatsword or resto staff.
Under the old system, no problem: I just convert them to Imperial style, and I'm good to go. Under the new system, if I want to use these items somewhere that isn't near an Outfitting station, I'm stuck using whatever style they originally dropped in, because only my S+B/S+B can be changed to a different style in a single Outfit slot (I would need to buy another 1500 Crown Outfit slot if I wanted apply that style to more than two weapon sets, and I'd similarly need to pay to dye all the armor pieces the same color, etc.).
So, yes. This change actually does matter.
Then the solution should be to have a "outfit" potion for on the go. In cases like yours, people would use the potion (or scroll) and their item could change (one item per pot/scroll ofc).
EDIT: The solution that ZOS will give us will be this ^.Edited by SilverIce58 on February 15, 2018 4:17AMPC - NACP 1125
Veric Blackwood - Breton Magsorc DC
Xhiak-Qua'cthurus - Argonian Frost Warden EP
Kujata-qa - Khajiit Magplar AD
Suunleth-dar - Khajiit Stamblade AD
Teldryn Antharys - Dunmer Flame DK EP
Strikes-With-Venom - Argonian Poison DK EP
Rur'san-ra - Khajiit WW Stamsorc AD
Ilianos Solinar - Altmer Stamplar AD
Iscah Silver-Heart - Reachman Magden DC0 -
opaj✭✭✭✭✭No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!
@OrdoHermetica -- Your outfit should remember any weapon types that you change, even if you switch them out later. So if you go to an outfit station, equip your 2H greatswords and resto staffs, and change them to Imperial, then those changes should be remembered later when you're swapping between sword-and-board and greatsword/staff so long as you're wearing the outfit.OrdoHermetica wrote: »Here's an actual working example: I have an Imperial Warden tank. He uses fancy Imperial gear. For trials, he uses S+B frontbar and backbar. Because I'm using Green Pact and Plague Doctor, that means I'm using the Outfit system to make it all look like fancy Imperial gear. However, depending on the circumstances, I sometimes switch to a Fortitude 2H greatsword or resto staff.
Under the old system, no problem: I just convert them to Imperial style, and I'm good to go. Under the new system, if I want to use these items somewhere that isn't near an Outfitting station, I'm stuck using whatever style they originally dropped in, because only my S+B/S+B can be changed to a different style in a single Outfit slot (I would need to buy another 1500 Crown Outfit slot if I wanted apply that style to more than two weapon sets, and I'd similarly need to pay to dye all the armor pieces the same color, etc.).
So, yes. This change actually does matter.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your example. Apologies if that's the case.0 -
Ultravylence✭✭✭No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!Two plausible solutions that I hope ZOS looks into.
1. Revert the change to remove the Convert to Morag Tong/Imperial from the game. The right click menu even still exists; this system can easily live side by side with the Outfit system.
2. Include an account wide Outfit slot with each Collectors Edition to allow buyers to use the feature.
Arguing that one can simply use the Outfit system to replace this function would be like stating a crafter should no longer be able to use Motif's to style items they create, instead they can simply use the Outfit system with Motifs they have collected.Edited by Ultravylence on February 15, 2018 5:20AM3 -
Slick_007✭✭✭✭✭
✭
please show us the full text of what it actually says in the release details about what the collectors edition contains. please note, i have the collectors edition and am not upset with this change
2) it does not 'still work' in the way that we paid for ~ i enjoy running around on new chars and when i picked
up a piece of ugly crap gear in the field to put on i had the ability to change it to something less ugly and i
PAID for that ability
Edited by Slick_007 on February 15, 2018 6:42AM1 -
smacky✭✭✭So... you lose a exploity way to get style mats, which was not the intent of the feature.
And you gain the flexibility of being able to finally use the feature with any item (not just items whose style was unlocked) and mixing weights. I.e., the intended use of the feature actually works now.
I don't see the problem here.
The problem here is that EVERYONE has the abilities you are describing. All they have to do is spend 50k gold to buy the motif.
We PAID MONEY for what we had, and therefore we have been ripped off. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
The converter only let's you convert crafted armor pretty much. Anyone could buy a motif and just craft the armor in the style.
It's no different now.
I am presuming you did not pay for the Imperial Edition, or you would know you could also convert Weapons with it.0 -
smacky✭✭✭I no longer have what I paid for, and believe I am entitled to a refund if the feature is not reinstated.
You have to look at their wording, though. The converter was not removed. The interface was moved (see screenshot below).
You would have to argue that core functionality was removed that makes it significantly different and inferior to the original version, based on the marketing text.
But the marketing text doesn't give you much to work with. For Imperial, the core feature was that you can, "Transform any gear you own into Imperial styled gear." For Morag Tong, it was "Flaunt your commitment to the assassins by customizing your gear with the distinct style of the Morag Tong."
While some functionality was altered, the core functionality was not; the feature as marketed was improved upon by moving it to the Outfit system. Now you can transform any gear you own into Imperial. Now you can fully customize Morag Tong.
Any perceived value in deconstructing converted gear was never advertised and is thus not a consistent feature of the converter.
You don't have to like the change, but I would side with them in that the converter move into the Outfit system did not interfere with statutory obligations.
If you are offering to represent ZoS against the ACCC, then let them know, not me!0 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭oh who am i kidding combat on the forums is the only endgame left...Edited by Acrolas on February 16, 2018 11:04PMsigning off0 -
Coatmagic✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!Well, it's nice to see that I'm not the only person who 'gets' that this was a wrong thing for ZoS to do.
Sadly, since I've gotten NOT ONE reply from anyone at ZoS there's little to be done...
If I were still living in the states in UNY... but I'm not.
Guess there's still snail mail!
Also:
please show us the full text of what it actually says in the release details about what the collectors edition contains. please note, i have the collectors edition and am not upset with this change
This is all I could find. The Imperial Edition info has been *tidied up* for lack of a better word.
No where does it state that 'by the way, we will be forcing you to use a station & charging you dye these items in the future'... How anyone in this community can support ZoS in this stupidity is beyond me.
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Carbonised✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!So... you lose a exploity way to get style mats, which was not the intent of the feature.
And you gain the flexibility of being able to finally use the feature with any item (not just items whose style was unlocked) and mixing weights. I.e., the intended use of the feature actually works now.
I don't see the problem here.
The problem is that anyone with an Imperial motif and Morag Tong motif can do exactly the same. The only literal difference between having the motif and having the CE function is that with the CE you don't have to pay the gold cost. The gold cost for those motifs isn't one of the largest ones. Plus you still have to pay to dye it either way.
So, what the OP is trying to say is that some people were fooled into preordering and paying high premium prices for a supposedly unique feature, that has now been rendered completely redundant and superfluous by the outfitting system.
Had we known this at the time of purchase, I'm sure many of us would certainly not have bothered with the CE edition, and just bought the regular one, even maybe have waited for a sale.
In my case, the only single thing that was appealing with the CE was the Morag Tong converter. With the outfit system, I could have saved a pretty penny by having bought the regular edition instead, and since I got the full Morag Tong motif, the only change would have been a gold cost that I currently don't have. I don't think that small gold cost reduction is worth the price of the CE.
And, going forward, I certainly will not bother buying any CE Chapters in the future, if the only appealing feature is the motif changing function, which now is not appealing to me in the slightest.2 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭Not my circus; not my monkeys...The current system is not transmog. Transmog literally changes the appearance of the gear (like in Diablo III). What we have now is an outfit creator that lets you design your own costume and wear it. (Not transformation. Not transmogrification. Outfit creation.)
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Ultravylence✭✭✭No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!ZOS? Anything? It is understandable this change only impacts a sub-segment of players, but the amount of faith restored in ZOS with an official comment here could go a long way.
Customers paid real currency for the Convert to Morag Tong/Imperial features and where sold these features as is. With the recent Outfit change it feels like customers are being herded towards the Crown Store to buy additional Outfit slots. How long until crafters can no longer craft with Motif styles and are told to use the Outfit system to set the style of gear?
Thanks in advance to ZOS for any feedback or attention you can afford to give this problem.0 -
Coatmagic✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!BTW, to those of you who are saying that the charge to dye what we used to be able to for free is minimal..
1,500 gold per slot FOR WHAT WE ALREADY PAID REAL CURRENCY TO DO FOR FREE is not miminal.
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essi2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not my circus; not my monkeys...ZOS did not remove your CE bonuses for converting styles, they changed it to make those styles free to use in the new Outfitting system, a change that is in my opinion well within reason.Edited by essi2 on February 16, 2018 9:30AM"The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar
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MrsPink✭✭✭No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!I don't rally care, never liked the styles, but imo its a matter of principle. They have taken away a perk people have payed for. Its like making you pay again for something you already own. Saying its still free to change is BS.
You bought a "service" and now they aren't delivering it anymore. Basic.Edited by MrsPink on February 16, 2018 9:34AMGM of Dark Royalty
PS4 EU
Karma's just sharpening her nails and finishing her drink. She says she'll be with you shortly.0 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭you were literally give a system for free that allows you to modify your entire character and those styles for free, and any other styles anytime you wish for ingame currency which is extremely cheap unless you use the rarest styles and somehow found a way to whine about it.
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Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yesterday i could still press right mouse on a crafted armor piece and choose convert imperial and morag tong.
Anyone else can confirm? I could do it on pieces in my bank but not in inventory.٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."0 -
LadyAstrum✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!ZoS doesn't care as long as they have our money.~ "You think me brutish? How do you imagine I view you?" - Molag Bal #misunderstood ~0 -
Kalitas✭✭✭I'm fine with the new changes as far as being able to use that style as an outift for free. They could have just left it as is and made us find the motifs to be able to use them for outfitting. People would have complained about that even more. I know between the two options, I'm happier with the current implementation. I just think we should be able to dye them for free.@Kevin-G | Ajani | Wü-Tang Clan1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This would maybe be an issue if the converters were working on dropped sets too. They did not. I never used them for that reason, and if you don't have the motifs, you at least can use imperial and morag tong in the outfit system without obtaining the motifs first.Edited by Feanor on February 16, 2018 1:18PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
SGT_Wolfe101st✭✭✭✭✭I have had both since their respective collectors editions but never used them because they didn't work with 90% of the gear in the game.
ZOS adapted it in a way which I can now use it more and still doesn't cost me money. Converting and breaking items for trait stones (did that even work?) was a niche feature and not the main purpose of it.
I have no issues with this change.
I find it odd that you never have an issue with anything? Is that what happens when you get that ambassador badge?PS4 -NA ADWood Elf - StamNB - DPSNord - MagDK - TankHigh Elf - MagSorc - DPSDark Elf - Mag Warden- Healer0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CountEdmondDantes wrote: »its still free to convert at the costume station.
It really is. I just made an Imperial costume at the die station and only cost me 300 for the dye. Choosing the Imperial armor cost me nothing - and I was wondering why. Now I know.
So full set of Imperial costume for my tank ... for the cost of dyeing it.
@CountEdmondDantes
That’s not free and that’s the point people are complaining about. It’s a feature we paid real money for and the change will cost us in-game gold AND real money if we want an additional outfit.
You can’t change the actual gear anymore, so that’s an issue.
I understand things change but there is absolutely no reason the ability to change real gear was removed. The outfit system option is O K to exist in addition to the feature we paid for.
Make sense?-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!With the addition of the new outfit system, the collector's editions abilities to transform items in the field that resulted in an item being changed to a different style, and said item being deconstructable resulting in the possible acquisition of style stones from said item. has been removed FOR NO REASON.
Hello,
My problem is different to the one that you describe. This is the marketing description of the Imperial Edition Upgrade:
"The Imperial Edition of ESO is a collector's edition of the game. The retail edition comes with a 12" Molag Bal statue, a map of Tamriel, and the Emperor's Guide to Tamriel. Both the retail and digital Imperial Editions unlock exclusive digital content:- The ability to play as an Imperial in any alliance, with unique bonuses.
- The ability to transform generic gear into the Imperial style.
- A Nibenay Mudcrab vanity pet.
- The ability to summon a white Imperial Horse mount.
- A Pledge of Mara.
In order to sell the "Upgrade", Zenimax offered content described as "Exclusive". This means that Zenimax made a contract that these items would ONLY be available from this 'exclusive' 'upgrade'.
So, by removing the second item in the list of exclusive items (The ability to transform generic gear into the Imperial style), Zenimax have decided that they can just advertise content as being "exclusive" at one point in time and then revoke that exclusivity at a later point in time.
I see this as false advertising. On that basis, I won't trust any future marketing that describes any content as "exclusive".
That means that I won't buy it.
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Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I haven't tried this yet but if it means I have to buy an outfit slot, then no its not right.
If it's still free then it's fine.Beta tester November 20130 -
Ultravylence✭✭✭No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!All the folks defending ZOS's removal of CE Converters, question directed to the crafters among you:
Would you as well support ZOS removing styles from all gear you craft? You can simply use your single free Outfit slot to change them anytime with the same motifs, should be no problem right?
The functions that have removed from the CE Converters specifically are not related to what an Outfit can provide; an Outfit is ONLY an in-game overlay for the style of your gear on your character. Crafting gear in a specific style, or using the CE Converter to change the same gear ALSO has the following characteristics which the Outfit overlay does not:
-Converted items in your inventory will display a specific/unique icon related to the items style.
-Items converted will display the "style" text on the item when viewed - ie. Morag Tong Style.
-A conversion to Morag Tong/Imperial can be repeated on as many items as allowed. This allows the player to equip and use NO COSTUME to display the gear change in game for as many items as desired. No trip to a Outfit station to create a new overlay then having to pay gold to dye the gear when changed.
I won't argue that the Outfit system isn't a great addition to the game, but it in no way is equivalent to crafting or converting an item to a specific style. ZOS either needs to re-instate the function of CE Converters or at least include ONE ACCOUNT WIDE costume slot for each CE Converter owned, as well as one with future Collectors Editions which include Converters.
I imagine this will hurt sales of future CE's as many of us realized the Converter's are the sole benefit of the CE which you cannot obtain otherwise in game.
Edited by Ultravylence on February 16, 2018 3:51PM2 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ultravylence wrote: »All the folks defending ZOS's removal of CE Converters, question directed to the crafters among you:
Would you as well support ZOS removing styles from all gear you craft? You can simply use your single free Outfit slot to change them anytime with the same motifs, should be no problem right?
The functions that have removed from the CE Converters specifically are not related to what an Outfit can provide; an Outfit is ONLY an in-game overlay for the style of your gear on your character. Crafting gear in a specific style, or using the CE Converter to change the same gear ALSO has the following characteristics which the Outfit overlay does not:
-Converted items in your inventory will display a specific/unique icon related to the items style.
-Items converted will display the "style" text on the item when viewed - ie. Morag Tong Style.
-A conversion to Morag Tong/Imperial can be repeated on as many items as allowed. This allows the player to equip and use NO COSTUME to display the gear change in game for as many items as desired. No trip to a Outfit station to create a new overlay then having to pay gold to dye the gear when changed.
I won't argue that the Outfit system is a great addition to the game, but it in no way is equivalent to crafting or converting an item to a specific style. ZOS either needs to re-instate the function of CE Converters or at least include ONE ACCOUNT WIDE costume slot for each CE Converter owned, as well as one with future Collectors Editions which include Converters.
I imagine this will hurt sales of future CE's as many of us realized the Converter's are the sole benefit of the CE which you cannot obtain otherwise in game.
Im not defending it but as a crafter...
Heck no and that’s how I see this change because it actually removes gear that is 1, crafted and then changed or 2, not craft-able but then changed.
It’s a big deal.....I think those who are defending it ....some of them don’t actually understand what was changed and it’s actual impact.
They think people just are confused on how to use the new stuff. The issue is a feature was completely removed that we paid for. And then the fact that you’re charged gold to dye and even worse charged real money if you want that as a full outfit in addition to the dye charges per slot. Cause who wouldn’t also want to use the new system AND keep their feature they paid for.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on February 16, 2018 3:50PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5012 -
Eddyble✭✭✭✭More and more functions from the game get taken away, limited or changed. I agree with OP, even though I only have the imperial edition (morrowind CE wasn't appealing enough) they removed a proper feature.
To go even further, instead of making a costume creator, what could be asked is why didn't they improve and expand on an already functioning transmog system the convertor presented? allow all gear to be able to be affected, unlock a "convert to x style" when you know the full motif. done.
I'll still play this game but I've cancelled my sub, probably wont be using the outfit system at all, and will not purchase CE dlcs any longer. they threw me a nugget when they figured out how to keep polymorph hide helmet working, but that's not enough.Edited by Eddyble on February 16, 2018 4:09PMEddyb1e - Xbox One - NA
Eddyble - PC - NA1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This would maybe be an issue if the converters were working on dropped sets too. They did not. I never used them for that reason, and if you don't have the motifs, you at least can use imperial and morag tong in the outfit system without obtaining the motifs first.
Actually, it did work on a few dropped sets that have variable appearances. If the dropped set could drop in multiple styles, like Armor of the Trainee, you could convert it.
I'm not saying that like the converters were actually useful, but just to clarify your point. In terms of giving us the appearance of the motif while wearing whatever gear we want, the outfit system is far superior.
But in terms of converting actual gear to imperial/morag tong that can be equipped and dyed freely, the outfit system no longer supports that.1
