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Was it OK for ZoS to remove abilities purchased with collector's editions?

Coatmagic
Coatmagic
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With the addition of the new outfit system, the collector's editions abilities to transform items in the field that resulted in an item being changed to a different style, and said item being deconstructable resulting in the possible acquisition of style stones from said item. has been removed FOR NO REASON.
Edited by Coatmagic on February 14, 2018 5:49AM

Was it OK for ZoS to remove abilities purchased with collector's editions? 250 votes

No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!
64%
Anthony_Arndtfastolfv_ESOGilvothMojmircalitrumanb14_ESOAgrivarDysturbedJimmyMeinChurroopajMalnutritionSkuaxaraanAKSb16_ESO2TaonnorninibiniAzuryaBaron_AtjasLadyAstrumCoatmagic 162 votes
Not my circus; not my monkeys...
35%
SynfidieDeathStalkerDeadlyRecluseaarolmstedb14_ESOArobainSteveCampsOutKhajiitHasSkoomaPlagueSDIruil_ESOGythralRebU_D_D_I_N_RkwisatzPrizaxMitrengacwells74ub17_ESOsdtlcAzraelKriegPhyllyaanotherme 88 votes
  • DoctorESO
    DoctorESO
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    You have the outfit system available now.
  • monktoasty
    monktoasty
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    I have no idea what you just said
  • kyle.wilson
    kyle.wilson
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    Its annoying, but at this point its not important to me. I really want ZOS to actually QA their game before dropping patches. I feel like I'm playing an extended Beta some days. Considering the bugs that made it out of PTS, I don't even think ZOS cares anymore.
    @ZOS_GinaBruno
  • Cpt_Teemo
    Cpt_Teemo
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    monktoasty wrote: »
    I have no idea what you just said

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3EzRAgjo_s
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
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    That existing transformation system was proof that true Transmorgrification, the thing we have been requesting for FOUR years, and what is baked into other MMOs from day 1 was possible. So better from ZOS's perspective to murder it quietly in the night so we don't weep for what could have been. No better time than now when we are distracted by ZOS's pay to outfit system that isn't true transmorg.
    Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on February 14, 2018 10:09AM
  • opaj
    opaj
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    No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!
    Moving the ability to change items to Morag Tong or Imperial style into the outfit system makes it harder to mix-and-match looks without engaging further with said system (and thus potentially getting dinged with gold or crown costs for editing your outfit or purchasing extra slots). I imagine this is the first step towards removing these two abilities from the menu entirely, but I wish they would keep the old system alongside the new.
  • Dromede
    Dromede
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    I thought you could do it for free through the station - correct me if i wrong, didn't actually test it, just remember from PTS patch notes that Imperial outfit pieces will cost not gold with Imperial edition. Not sure about dying them.
    Skye Cloude - Sorc DPS, Master Crafter. Main, the bestest
    Lae Lenne - Templar Healer Trial grade.
    Dromede - Stamina Nightblade, she's a newb and doesn't know what she's doing
    V'oghatta - Stamplar pretending to be a tank
    Ulville Thonvella - aspiring Fire Mage, be careful around her fire sticks!
    Dromedaris - lost and not found. Named after a shoe, what else can you expect from her? A proper tank in her wildest dreams
    Swims-Naked - too pretty to grind, too silly to quest.
    Sun Flair - Dunmer Templar that can't spell for life. To bad she's too broke to afford a name change... Well, at least she's pretty...
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
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    No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!
    Wait a minute. So the ability for me to change an item to Imperial from Argonian style is removed with the newest update? Are you serious...?
  • smacky
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    I agree with the OP. I paid for the Imperial Edition, and that included the ability to Change almost any item to Imperial Style. It bound that item to my account if I did so, but this was part of what we paid for.

    There was no mention in the patch notes of such a change, and quite frankly it is an insult to those of us who have invested in the Imperial (or Morrowind Pre-Order - Convert to Morag Tong) editions of the game.

    I think it is wrong that when you get a toon to level 10 you get a free horse, do the rest of use who bought that horse get 10k gold instead as a refund when we hit level 10 on a new toon?

    Not to mention those who spent crowns on a starter pack to get a mount.
  • TheValar85
    TheValar85
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    No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!
    monktoasty wrote: »
    I have no idea what you just said

    yeah nor do i
    GM Of The Lusty Argonian ERP
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  • AlienatedGoat
    AlienatedGoat
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    No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!
    As an owner of both CE's, I wasn't happy with the change - especially that I still have to pay gold to dye the items.

    Let's be real though: At least we got something.
    PC-NA Goat
  • smacky
    smacky
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    Phage wrote: »
    As an owner of both CE's, I wasn't happy with the change - especially that I still have to pay gold to dye the items.

    Let's be real though: At least we got something.

    You don't have to pay gold to dye the items if you do not dye them as part of an outfit.
    They really need to clarify this, as I have seen so many complaints about the same thin in game.
  • smacky
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    Also .. what did we get, I uise costumes not outfits, so I gain nothing and lose something I PAID for.
  • sdtlc
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    Not my circus; not my monkeys...
    First things first, OP is blaming ZoS for removing a variant of gaining ingame stylestones, by a biased poll, good job Sir.

    You we're able to transform any most item to Morag Tong or Imperial style. When you would deconstruct this item, you had a chance to gain a stylematerial of either Morag Tong or Imperial.

    The removal of this procedure, OP blaims.

    For the common player there is no change, you have can use the Morag Tong or the Imperial style at the outfit station for free.

    Edited by sdtlc on February 14, 2018 8:06AM
    Die Qualität verhält sich nicht zwingend proportional zur Masse...

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  • zaria
    zaria
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    That existing transformation system was proof that true Transmorgrification, the thing we have been for FOUR years, and what is baked into other MMOs from day 1 was possible. So better from ZOS's perspective to murder it quietly in the night so we don't weep for what could have been. No better time than now when we are distracted by ZOS's pay to outfit system that isn't true transmorg.
    it could only transfer non set items and crafted sets. That made it less useful than an spell power cure bow.
    You could already craft set in any style and nobody used non set items.

    I assume this is because the style settings for sets are stored in the set data not in items for non crafted sets.
    Transmogrification would be just as easy to monetize and might been easier to implement unless its fundamental database issues. I personally would prefer transmogrification too but imperial transform was not transmogrification




    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Aesthier
    Aesthier
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    No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!
    I understand what you are saying and back you 100%. I for one am really not impressed with their outfitter system. They didn't come up with the idea and only implemented it due to the sheer volume of requests for it over the years. They did so reluctantly I believe and therefore it comes with typical microtransaction costs.

    Understand I am not dissing the programmers who had to code this in, I am however pointing directly at the design team that thought a half-baked system with a full baked price would please everybody.

    So much more could have been achieved with this for the price they are asking.
  • smacky
    smacky
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    I think you guys are missing the point.

    While the OP's poll was a joke of epic proportions, I think it reflects the change of a PAID function.

    We PAID for Imperial edition. Anybody can buy the Motif or find it, and therefore craft it at a station.
    So what the hell did wee pay for?

    I am seriously considering requesting a refund for the Imperial Upgrade and taking is to Consumer Affairs if they deny it, since all I really got extra now was a horse, andd since eveyone gets a free horse at Level 10 now, I have lost something I Paid REAL MONEY for.

    This is the OP's point. We paid for something, and they have taken it away. If you bought a new car took it for a service and got it back with no air-con you would be angry. How is this any different?
  • Iccotak
    Iccotak
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    That ability is still available.
  • aeowulf
    aeowulf
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    Can you not convert anymore?? I would of thought it would of been left in, just superceeded by the style system

    no, not OK, people lost something they paid for, no matter how big or small it is. Morrowind is still being advertised as having the 'Morag Tong Armor Converter'. This should for sure be removed, and by doing so you can see it's had an impact on the total package.

    It is very very minor in the big scheme of things, but it's the principle of it. These converters should probably be replaced with +1 style slot or similar if people are not given the choice to retain something they paid for.
  • code65536
    code65536
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    So... you lose a exploity way to get style mats, which was not the intent of the feature.

    And you gain the flexibility of being able to finally use the feature with any item (not just items whose style was unlocked) and mixing weights. I.e., the intended use of the feature actually works now.

    I don't see the problem here.
    Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU

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  • Acrolas
    Acrolas
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    ZOS can change any asset they own whenever they want to and without notice to you.

    As far as deconstructing, nickel is 15 gold at a vendor and looking at my MM data, boiled carapace is holding around 90 gold. I never thought of either as money makers relative to other options.
    signing off
  • smacky
    smacky
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    code65536 wrote: »
    So... you lose a exploity way to get style mats, which was not the intent of the feature.

    And you gain the flexibility of being able to finally use the feature with any item (not just items whose style was unlocked) and mixing weights. I.e., the intended use of the feature actually works now.

    I don't see the problem here.

    The problem here is that EVERYONE has the abilities you are describing. All they have to do is spend 50k gold to buy the motif.

    We PAID MONEY for what we had, and therefore we have been ripped off. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
  • smacky
    smacky
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    Acrolas wrote: »
    ZOS can change any asset they own whenever they want to and without notice to you.

    As far as deconstructing, nickel is 15 gold at a vendor and looking at my MM data, boiled carapace is holding around 90 gold. I never thought of either as money makers relative to other options.

    Check Australian Consumer Law. You are wrong.

    Law supercedes any contract or EULA. The package for Imperial was advertised with a feature, it influenced our decision to purchase that item, and as such ZoS does not have any right to remove that feature.

    I no longer have what I paid for, and believe I am entitled to a refund if the feature is not reinstated.
  • Slick_007
    Slick_007
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Wait a minute. So the ability for me to change an item to Imperial from Argonian style is removed with the newest update? Are you serious...?

    no, they are not even correct.
  • code65536
    code65536
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    smacky wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    So... you lose a exploity way to get style mats, which was not the intent of the feature.

    And you gain the flexibility of being able to finally use the feature with any item (not just items whose style was unlocked) and mixing weights. I.e., the intended use of the feature actually works now.

    I don't see the problem here.

    The problem here is that EVERYONE has the abilities you are describing. All they have to do is spend 50k gold to buy the motif.

    We PAID MONEY for what we had, and therefore we have been ripped off. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
    • If you have the converter, you can use those styles without any gold cost. If you don't, you have to spend gold to apply the style in addition to the acquisition cost of the motif.
    • The old converter was nigh useless. It worked for crafted items, trash items, and a small subset of dropped sets. The new system works for everything.
    • You paid for a half-assed feature that didn't work for most items in the game. They fixed the feature so that it's more flexible and works for everything. The one and only situation in which the old broken way was better was if you wanted to use it for the unintended and unadvertised purpose of farming style mats. You didn't lose anything; you instead gained functionality.
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  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    I have had both since their respective collectors editions but never used them because they didn't work with 90% of the gear in the game.

    ZOS adapted it in a way which I can now use it more and still doesn't cost me money. Converting and breaking items for trait stones (did that even work?) was a niche feature and not the main purpose of it.

    I have no issues with this change.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Coatmagic
    Coatmagic
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    No, this is no OK, I paid for this ability and want it restored!
    Thanks everyone who has 'gotten the point' of this.

    To those of you who are going on about 'style material exploits' and that 'it still works'...

    1) style material not really the point was just using it to make my point

    2) it does not 'still work' in the way that we paid for ~ i enjoy running around on new chars and when i picked
    up a piece of ugly crap gear in the field to put on i had the ability to change it to something less ugly and i
    PAID for that ability

    3) now not only can we no longer do 1 & 2 that we PAID for they want to charge us to DYE the items we
    change (for free lol yeah thanks ZoS)

    4) there was NO REASON to change this process for those that bought these collector's editions and they
    need to put it back
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
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    smacky wrote: »
    I think you guys are missing the point.

    While the OP's poll was a joke of epic proportions, I think it reflects the change of a PAID function.

    We PAID for Imperial edition. Anybody can buy the Motif or find it, and therefore craft it at a station.
    So what the hell did wee pay for?

    I am seriously considering requesting a refund for the Imperial Upgrade and taking is to Consumer Affairs if they deny it, since all I really got extra now was a horse, andd since eveyone gets a free horse at Level 10 now, I have lost something I Paid REAL MONEY for.

    This is the OP's point. We paid for something, and they have taken it away. If you bought a new car took it for a service and got it back with no air-con you would be angry. How is this any different?

    And you can play as an imperial..... Probably a better bonus than a motof.

    I'm not sure what the complaint is. Previously, you could only change crafted armor. Which anyone could get the motif and make armor in that style originally anyway. Now you can overwrite any item piece with an Imperial looking one. People who don't have the motif or imperial edition can't...

    Genuinely scratching my head why people don't like this change. Is it because you could cheese a style material? Neither style is in that great of a demand that it's style material ia worth anything.
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
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    smacky wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    So... you lose a exploity way to get style mats, which was not the intent of the feature.

    And you gain the flexibility of being able to finally use the feature with any item (not just items whose style was unlocked) and mixing weights. I.e., the intended use of the feature actually works now.

    I don't see the problem here.

    The problem here is that EVERYONE has the abilities you are describing. All they have to do is spend 50k gold to buy the motif.

    We PAID MONEY for what we had, and therefore we have been ripped off. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

    The converter only let's you convert crafted armor pretty much. Anyone could buy a motif and just craft the armor in the style.

    It's no different now.
  • Acrolas
    Acrolas
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    smacky wrote: »
    I no longer have what I paid for, and believe I am entitled to a refund if the feature is not reinstated.


    You have to look at their wording, though. The converter was not removed. The interface was moved (see screenshot below).
    You would have to argue that core functionality was removed that makes it significantly different and inferior to the original version, based on the marketing text.

    But the marketing text doesn't give you much to work with. For Imperial, the core feature was that you can, "Transform any gear you own into Imperial styled gear." For Morag Tong, it was "Flaunt your commitment to the assassins by customizing your gear with the distinct style of the Morag Tong."

    While some functionality was altered, the core functionality was not; the feature as marketed was improved upon by moving it to the Outfit system. Now you can transform any gear you own into Imperial. Now you can fully customize Morag Tong.

    Any perceived value in deconstructing converted gear was never advertised and is thus not a consistent feature of the converter.

    You don't have to like the change, but I would side with them in that the converter move into the Outfit system did not interfere with statutory obligations.


    iHqxB3Z.jpg
    signing off
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