...and why Necromancers?

SilverIce58

While I am on the side of those who want Necromancy as just a skill line (so we don't have to make ANOTHER new character), I'd just like to point out that necromancy, according to lore, is only illegal if you're part of the Mage's Guild. Vans Galerion hates anything to do with necromancy (including soul trap), and the Mage's Guild has outlawed it. BUT, in every other province, it's either totally legal, or just looked down upon. In morrowind (the place not the game), it's heavily frowned upon to raise fellow dunmer, but other races (especially the more beastly races) are fair game. In Cyrodiil it's perfectly legal. Black Marsh could never foster necromancer due to the swamp breaking down dead bodies asap. Hammerfell, on the other hand, is a perfect place to raise bodies as the sands keep bodies for, well, ever, altho the redguard people would never deal with anyone who raises the dead.

All in all, it'd just be better for us to have a skill line for it. 5 skills, 3-4 passives, and an ultimate.

Glurin

I'd prefer a skill line to a new class. Actually it makes sense when you think about it. The main quest line is all about fighting a cult of necromancers. You don't fight that many necromancers for that long without picking up a few things. The ability to raise a skeleton to fight for you at the least.

xbobx

pet jobs are not a good thing in a mmo. They are the hardest to balance and end up being overpowered or weak in many instances.

QuebraRegra

Iccotak wrote: »

I used to not think that classes were not restricting THEN I thought about why my Templar, a class based on Aedric abilities, would be using Necromancy?
Why are elements of destruction magic split between these classes??
I am genuinely curious why we have this class system instead of classic Elder Scroll Magic schools?

Go to about 52:00 for spellcrafting
Go to about 1:00:00 for Classic Magic schools
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LkeMacg-b0

Even with the current class system, why not allow for some "cross classing" when a certain (elite) milestone is reached? ie. Allow a class to select a skill line from another class, and they spec into that skill line as well... creating a sorta hybrid class (ex. a sorc to select from a the NB siphon line)?

Remember all the mixed skill classes from Oblivion?
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Oblivion:_Classes

Agreed on Necromancer over all tho... some skill line added to rise dead, drain life, debuff, etc.

TheShadowScout

SilverIce58 wrote: »

...altho the redguard people would never deal with anyone who raises the dead.

You sure about that?
I'd say they would 'deal' with them alright... curved sword-edge wise!

ForsakenSin

srnekro wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

sometimes, to do some good, we gotta be the bad guy

Ohh man nice quote !!!!!!!!

Iccotak

srnekro wrote: »

I see a great waste of this beautiful profession goes to just one skill line. That would be the same to take out Daedric Summoning from Sorcerer and the animal companions from Warden and put on a skill line for all the other classes. They would lose their essence, what makes them unique, the same thing goes for Necromancers.

Necromancer has a great potential to be a class instead of a skill line. I can see the branches already. One for Restoration/Alteration to inflict diseases and boons. Other for Necromancy(Conjuration) To summon the risen dead. And finally one with Illusion/Mysticism to inflict the curses, cc and debuff. I can't see how all of this can fit in just one skill line.

Stop separating the Schools of magic.
I want more of a return to Elder Scrolls classic schools of magic and skill lines.
Why are the elements separated between three classes?
People all across Tamriel have access to fire magic but you have to play Dragon Knight for more fire magic?
Why do I have to play a daedra summoner to have access to lightning powers?
You have to play Warden for more Ice powers?
They try to make justifications; that the Dragon Knight is an Akiviri art, that the Wardens magic comes from Valenwood, etc.

BUT
The Wardens powers largely show creatures from Vvardenfel except for the Bear. Does that mean that everyone using ice powers had Warden training?
Why would High Elves be using fighting skills of the Akiviri?
Why would Argonians be using Aedric magic when they worship Sithis?
Why would Dunmer be using Aedric spears and such when they worship the Tribunal or Daedra?

NOTE: I am not saying restrict player based on race. I am saying that their justification for where Classes comes from makes no sense.

This effort to make each of these unique classes can lead to a restricting system. Because then you are trying to fill niches and unique flavors, rather than simply letting the player make what they want.
ESO is open right now because there are Not alot of classes and each class has more than just the class skill lines. In fact the system is so open at this point that I have to ask what the point of this class system is in the first place.

If you can wear and use whatever gear you want no matter your class then WHY are schools of magic restricted to you?
Even if you want to be a pure Barbarian warrior you have to level up Casting skill lines.

Conjuration should have its own skill line
Destruction should have its own skill line
Restoration should have its own skill line
Alteration should have its own skill line
Illusion should have its own skill line

ZOS has already said that they are working/thinking about giving each class a DPS skill line, a Tanks skill line, and a Healing skill line. Essentially making classes purely flavor which is limiting for players seeking an RPG route. Any class can be a tank, rogue, ranger, fighter, etc. So what is the point of the class system then?
All classes have done is separate the classic magic schools of ES games.
Now you could make the argument that no restriction means that everyone would play the same thing, but ESO pretty open system has already disproved that. Players have access to all skill lines except for the three specific to other classes and we can see here that they pick and choose depending on the character they want.

I don't want more classes because I don't want further separation and restrictive access to powers and abilities for the sake of uniqueness and flavor. I can make those things on my own with how I build my character

srnekro

TheShadowScout wrote: »

srnekro wrote: »

I see a great waste of this beautiful profession goes to just one skill line...

I see a great waste in beautiful characters being denied new stuff because people want whole new classes.
Which necromancers are not, not in the elder scrolls lore anyhow. Not a "profession" either, more like... a crime.

In the elder scrolls lore, they are truly all about animating dead bodies and summoning the spirits of the dead.
As well as a mere subset to conjuration magic.
And generally about as welcome then any assassin... (not that this ever stopped us from joining the dark brotherhood. Or creating a flesh atronarch during the mainquest!)

Which IS why I keep suggesting them as mere "prestige class" style option for sorcerors to specialize in for my "Class Morph" idea... not in the least because that way, -everyone- can refit them to their sorcerors if they so choose, and people like me who already have fourteen characters don't get vexed by having to make yet another. And people who played since launch and think such a spezialization would just be perfect for their main could also do it, instead of having to start anew.

At this point, I just feel sad for you. You are just a hater lol. Everything I say, you either don't even bother to read or understand. I'm not going to repeat the same thing over and over again to you. If you don't like the idea, you don't. Move on, you are a waste here.

srnekro

srnekro

boobafinno wrote: »

To avoid classess pve/pvp balancing issues, it might be like additional skill line for sorcs only. It might be even like replacing skill line for people who decided to turn their sorcs into necromancers. For example necro skill line would replace Storm Calling skill line, but Daedric Summoning and Dark Magic would stay on their place in sorcerers skills. And if players want, they can turn their necromancers back into usual sorcs, like ppl who can turn their vampires/werewolfs into usual "humans" by special npc cure option.

Of course necromancers shouldn't be like another petsorc or warden's pet class. May be make it able to make zombies from another players corpses in pvp, and theese zombies will attack with abilities from dead player's hotbar on the moment of player's death. Just imagine how fun it would be! And how many variations of this little zombie group possible to build.

You are getting the idea, but yet, you are far to see the true potential of it. 1st, there's no need to have necromancy and daedric summoning in the same character, would be a waste. I mean, you can only pick 5 abilities, besides the ult. Most of that abilities would be minions, and what would your character do?

Necromancers can inflict diseases, debuffs and decays, while have a great CC. It would be just an awesome class.

Now, saying that it should be a skill line just because some people have already 14 characters, that's just dumb. Like any mmorpg would anwser to that. Let's just throw away the concept of mmorpg already. bhaa...

terrordactyl1971

What happens to the frame rate when everyone is standing at the bank with 4 summoned skeletons each ?

dday3six

I’m not the biggest lore nerd, but it needs to matter at some point.

Spoilers: Meridia is a large part of the main story, and she loathes the Undead, Vampires, and Nercomancers. It’s bad enough that by some miracle she’ll ignore the present of Vampirism in the MC. Lore bills Meridia’s mythos in a very particular light. That has to account for something.

Iccotak

srnekro wrote: »

boobafinno wrote: »

To avoid classess pve/pvp balancing issues, it might be like additional skill line for sorcs only. It might be even like replacing skill line for people who decided to turn their sorcs into necromancers. For example necro skill line would replace Storm Calling skill line, but Daedric Summoning and Dark Magic would stay on their place in sorcerers skills. And if players want, they can turn their necromancers back into usual sorcs, like ppl who can turn their vampires/werewolfs into usual "humans" by special npc cure option.

Of course necromancers shouldn't be like another petsorc or warden's pet class. May be make it able to make zombies from another players corpses in pvp, and theese zombies will attack with abilities from dead player's hotbar on the moment of player's death. Just imagine how fun it would be! And how many variations of this little zombie group possible to build.

You are getting the idea, but yet, you are far to see the true potential of it. 1st, there's no need to have necromancy and daedric summoning in the same character, would be a waste. I mean, you can only pick 5 abilities, besides the ult. Most of that abilities would be minions, and what would your character do?

Necromancers can inflict diseases, debuffs and decays, while have a great CC. It would be just an awesome class.

Now, saying that it should be a skill line just because some people have already 14 characters, that's just dumb. Like any mmorpg would anwser to that. Let's just throw away the concept of mmorpg already. bhaa...

So first off. Conjurations should be its own skill line that has both daedric summoning and undead. ES games gave you both and having both did not make either one pointless.
If anything making daedric summoning and necromancy divided between two classes would make No Sense. As a summoner, Why wouldn't I want to know how to do both?

ZOS has already said that they are working/thinking about giving each class a DPS skill line, a Tanks skill line, and a Healing skill line. Essentially making classes purely flavor which is limiting for players seeking an RPG route. Any class can be a tank, rogue, ranger, fighter, etc. So what is the point of the class system then?
All classes have done is separate the classic magic schools of ES games.
Now you could make the argument that no restriction means that everyone would play the same thing, but ESO pretty open system has already disproved that. Players have access to all skill lines except for the three specific to other classes and we can see here that they pick and choose depending on the character they want.

dday3six wrote: »

I’m not the biggest lore nerd, but it needs to matter at some point.

Spoilers: Meridia is a large part of the main story, and she loathes the Undead, Vampires, and Nercomancers. It’s bad enough that by some miracle she’ll ignore the present of Vampirism in the MC. Lore bills Meridia’s mythos in a very particular light. That has to account for something.

Secondly, ZOS is hyping up Necromancers with the new Necromancer personality they are adding in the Dragon Bones DLC.
In nearly every ES game even if you were the hero of the main story you could do some pretty heinous stuff every where else. I was the Dragonborn but I could use Necromancy.
Secondly, You can join the Dark Brotherhood. A league of assassins that has undead Guardians. ESO is giving you options to be a bad guy.

Mettaricana

May as well give us a necro zos has given us dang near everything necromancer related an armor set NECROpotence that basically says summon zombies.. dragon bones gives us a necromancer personality and tattoos and their armor style. Data mined skins give us a zombie look. We have a necromancer zombie horse a manimarco costume. Its like opening all your christmas presents and getting like 5 ps4 games a controll and hdmi cord a ps plus year subscription but not getting a ps4 for christmas...

dday3six

Iccotak wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

I’m not the biggest lore nerd, but it needs to matter at some point.

Spoilers: Meridia is a large part of the main story, and she loathes the Undead, Vampires, and Nercomancers. It’s bad enough that by some miracle she’ll ignore the present of Vampirism in the MC. Lore bills Meridia’s mythos in a very particular light. That has to account for something.

Secondly, ZOS is hyping up Necromancers with the new Necromancer personality they are adding in the Dragon Bones DLC.
Secondly, In nearly every ES game even if you were the hero of the main story you could do some pretty heinous stuff every where else. I was the Dragonborn but I could use Necromancy.
Secondly, You can join the Dark Brotherhood. A league of assassins that has undead Guardians. ESO is giving you options to be a bad guy.

It’s not about the moral ambiguity of player choice. It’s about a narrative conflict. Being able to be a ‘bad guy’ for the sake of player role play doesn’t wash away the canonical motivations a character. Meridia, who’s sole purpose is to eradicate Undead and Necromancy, wouldn’t overlook her champion being a Nercomancer. I can barely stomach that she overlooks Vampirism in the player character, and that direct exposure to her light doesn’t dust them outright.

I’m a purist for consistency in fictional works, and plot holes like ignoring character motivation is a sign of poor writing, imo.

Integral1900

Yay... because there aren’t enough stupid, bumbling pets cluttering up the game

Skullstachio

For one, I agree that they need to put in a necromancer, but make it unique with a type of play style, you have a night blade designed for damage, assassinations and stealth, dragonknights to Tank and be a means of frontline defense and offense, sorcerers to be the main kind of offense from a variety of distances, Templars that not only tank but also double as the best healers and you also have the warden who gives a type of all round play style.

but... why not add a necromancer who's playstyle involves indirect damage through the use of undead minions as well as a means of debuffing enemies and players alike or even siphoning their buffs to add to their own while giving Debuffs to enemies? with each class comes a different play style that appeals to each and every player differently.

TheShadowScout

srnekro wrote: »

At this point, I just feel sad for you. You are just a hater lol.

You -do- realize I have been suggesting a necromancy option for years, right? Counting how many times I posted my class morph idea before I made the first thread for it, possibly longer then you have been on the forums... and I had necromancy in it from the start!

The only thing I hate is the idea of adding -new classes-... I just want things to be available for old hands as well as new players, for ALL characters to have an option to specialize, as a way to breathe new life into the somewhat restrictive class system, and further character diversification.

Thus my focus on skill lines, one way or another.

srnekro wrote: »

Everything I say, you either don't even bother to read or understand.

I read and understand it all right.
I just don't agree.
Difference!

You keep trying to build a case for necromancers as entire class - and the skillset is just too thin for that in ESO lore. Oh, sure, it could well be done... fleshing it out with non-necromantic skills and such... but I really see no need to do it, when other ways would be useful for more people.
Simply by making a necomancy guild skill line, Or adding them as "prestige class" to sorcerors, who already cover the "conjuration" skill like with their daedric summoning.

Not that this matters much, since ESO is sort of set before the time where the mages guild picked up the reorganization of magic into the schools we know from all the other TES games...

srnekro wrote: »

Necromancers can inflict diseases, debuffs and decays...

Not in ESO they can't.
Different magics.
Oh, sure, they would fit well together... but then, the same can be said for a lot of other stuff. Diseases and decay magicks are still not necromantic, but more the domain of some daedric princes (Peryite and Namira ring any bells?) And many a caster can debuff in various ways.

I mean, we get it. You love necromancers, and want to import your favorite character daydreams about that you think necromancers ought to be based on how they are depicted in other universes into ESO.
And try to build a case for arguing that. And some of us have different ideas, see the whole necromancy thing as only one "play with dead things" skill line like me, or completely unviable for lore reasons like some others (who are still wrong about this, its no more or less unviable then assassins - especially if done refit-able post-mainstory!).

If you just wanted to have people praise your thoughts, you should have kept it a private conversation with necromancer fans.
Here on the forums, you will find people argoing different viewpoints as well.
And you are free to keep arguing yours, or not if you have said all you wanted.
Sometimes such arguments bring new ideas to refine the ones you had. Sometimes they just bring vexation. But if you tell others they are "a waste" just because they happen to disagree with you, you are demeaning yourself and your position!

Iccotak

dday3six wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

I’m not the biggest lore nerd, but it needs to matter at some point.

Spoilers: Meridia is a large part of the main story, and she loathes the Undead, Vampires, and Nercomancers. It’s bad enough that by some miracle she’ll ignore the present of Vampirism in the MC. Lore bills Meridia’s mythos in a very particular light. That has to account for something.

Secondly, ZOS is hyping up Necromancers with the new Necromancer personality they are adding in the Dragon Bones DLC.
Secondly, In nearly every ES game even if you were the hero of the main story you could do some pretty heinous stuff every where else. I was the Dragonborn but I could use Necromancy.
Secondly, You can join the Dark Brotherhood. A league of assassins that has undead Guardians. ESO is giving you options to be a bad guy.

It’s not about the moral ambiguity of player choice. It’s about a narrative conflict. Being able to be a ‘bad guy’ for the sake of player role play doesn’t wash away the canonical motivations a character. Meridia, who’s sole purpose is to eradicate Undead and Necromancy, wouldn’t overlook her champion being a Nercomancer. I can barely stomach that she overlooks Vampirism in the player character, and that direct exposure to her light doesn’t dust them outright.

I’m a purist for consistency in fictional works, and plot holes like ignoring character motivation is a sign of poor writing, imo.

IN this game series player choice often over rides overall narrative

Iccotak

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

For one, I agree that they need to put in a necromancer, but make it unique with a type of play style, you have a night blade designed for damage, assassinations and stealth, dragonknights to Tank and be a means of frontline defense and offense, sorcerers to be the main kind of offense from a variety of distances, Templars that not only tank but also double as the best healers and you also have the warden who gives a type of all round play style.

but... why not add a necromancer who's playstyle involves indirect damage through the use of undead minions as well as a means of debuffing enemies and players alike or even siphoning their buffs to add to their own while giving Debuffs to enemies? with each class comes a different play style that appeals to each and every player differently.

I have no problems with necromancers. I also want to see the option for Necromancy.

@Alpha-Lupi
The class system doesn't work because it will lead to an increase in limitations and restrictions.

ESO boasts on how no matter what class you pick you can play how you want. BUT certain classes are clearly geared more towards certain roles than other classes.

Nightblades have more abilities and therefore advantages in playing sneaking characters.
Dragon Knights have more powers that are specifically geared for tanking than the Sorcerer is.
Templars are more geared towards being healers. Which is why people are upset about Wardens because now we have two classes with healing skill lines.

SO class undeniably plays an important part in play style.

ZOS has already said that they are working/thinking about giving each class a DPS skill line, a Tanks skill line, and a Healing skill line. Essentially making classes purely flavor which is limiting for players seeking an RPG route. Any class can be a tank, rogue, ranger, fighter, etc. So what is the point of the class system then?

Now you could make the argument that no restriction means that everyone would play the same thing, but ESO pretty open system has already disproved that. Players have access to all skill lines except for the three specific to other classes and we can see here that they pick and choose depending on the character they want.

All classes have done is separate the classic magic schools of ES games.
If you can wear and use whatever gear you want no matter your class then WHY are schools of magic restricted and divided between the classes?
Conjuration should have its own skill line
Destruction should have its own skill line
Restoration should have its own skill line
Alteration should have its own skill line
Illusion should have its own skill line

Instead we see lots of abilities akin to many of the magic schools divided among the classes.

Conjuration should be its own skill line that has both daedric summoning and undead. Normally ES games gave you both in one skill line and having both did not make either one pointless.
If anything making daedric summoning and necromancy divided between two classes would make No Sense. As a summoner in the dark arts, Why wouldn't I want to know how to do both?

ESO is in the cross roads between a standard MMO class system and an open & creative system more akin to Skyrim. From what I have been seeing the overwhelming response is that people don't want more classes. We want ESO to take more after ES games.
ES games allow us to make our own flavor and uniqueness. We should not have a class system that determines that for us.
Especially now that Necromancer (or Worm Wizard) is going to be a personality in the game that you can use no matter what class you are.

Iccotak

I mean, we get it. You love necromancers, and want to import your favorite character daydreams about that you think necromancers ought to be based on how they are depicted in other universes into ESO.

THIS.
Stop trying to base a necromancers class off of other interpretations. Actually take a look at how Elder Scrolls treats Necromancy. They don't treat it like we see in Diablo.



If that is what you want to model your build off of good for you.
BUT The point of magic in Elder Scrolls is that anyone can do it. Its like science, if you know what you are doing, then you can do it.

This is why I am not a fan of the class system right now. Because it designates play styles when that is something the player should determine.
no matter who you are, you should be able to do it if you properly invest and practice it. Nothing should be made unavailable to you. The only form of restriction that should exist is how you build your character due to the limited skill points available in the game.

I mean come on, why would a Sorcerer not try to learn Necromancy?

dday3six

Iccotak wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

I’m not the biggest lore nerd, but it needs to matter at some point.

Spoilers: Meridia is a large part of the main story, and she loathes the Undead, Vampires, and Nercomancers. It’s bad enough that by some miracle she’ll ignore the present of Vampirism in the MC. Lore bills Meridia’s mythos in a very particular light. That has to account for something.

Secondly, ZOS is hyping up Necromancers with the new Necromancer personality they are adding in the Dragon Bones DLC.
Secondly, In nearly every ES game even if you were the hero of the main story you could do some pretty heinous stuff every where else. I was the Dragonborn but I could use Necromancy.
Secondly, You can join the Dark Brotherhood. A league of assassins that has undead Guardians. ESO is giving you options to be a bad guy.

It’s not about the moral ambiguity of player choice. It’s about a narrative conflict. Being able to be a ‘bad guy’ for the sake of player role play doesn’t wash away the canonical motivations a character. Meridia, who’s sole purpose is to eradicate Undead and Necromancy, wouldn’t overlook her champion being a Nercomancer. I can barely stomach that she overlooks Vampirism in the player character, and that direct exposure to her light doesn’t dust them outright.

I’m a purist for consistency in fictional works, and plot holes like ignoring character motivation is a sign of poor writing, imo.

IN this game series player choice often over rides overall narrative

It doesn’t change the motivations of ‘gods’. It’s a favor of one or the other, that is crafted into the narrative, that not obstructing or overriding it. That’s following it via branching paths.

Iccotak

Integral1900 wrote: »

Yay... because there aren’t enough stupid, bumbling pets cluttering up the game

Pets have always been a thing in Elder Scrolls and they will continue to be.
Instead of wishing they did not exist, offer advice to make them better.

Yamenstein

So many necromancer threads
Don't think we need another class just yet. But would be awesome to see a new world skill line for necromancers instead

SilverIce58

TheShadowScout wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

...altho the redguard people would never deal with anyone who raises the dead.

You sure about that?
I'd say they would 'deal' with them alright... curved sword-edge wise!

First off, I love the meme. Second, the Redguard do have designated people to deal with the undead (which if you did the Alik'r Desert Storyline you'd know of them [idk if you have or not]), but the regular redguard people don't talk to them for whatever reasons (religious maybe)

Yamenstein

boobafinno wrote: »

To avoid classess pve/pvp balancing issues, it might be like additional skill line for sorcs only. It might be even like replacing skill line for people who decided to turn their sorcs into necromancers. For example necro skill line would replace Storm Calling skill line, but Daedric Summoning and Dark Magic would stay on their place in sorcerers skills. And if players want, they can turn their necromancers back into usual sorcs, like ppl who can turn their vampires/werewolfs into usual "humans" by special npc cure option.

Of course necromancers shouldn't be like another petsorc or warden's pet class. May be make it able to make zombies from another players corpses in pvp, and theese zombies will attack with abilities from dead player's hotbar on the moment of player's death. Just imagine how fun it would be! And how many variations of this little zombie group possible to build.

No reason to just lock it in for only sorceres. Doesn't make any sense from a balancing or gameplay point of view. Nor lore wise as in elder scrolls you don't need to be a "sorcerer" to perform magic.

Iccotak

Yamenstein wrote: »

boobafinno wrote: »

To avoid classess pve/pvp balancing issues, it might be like additional skill line for sorcs only. It might be even like replacing skill line for people who decided to turn their sorcs into necromancers. For example necro skill line would replace Storm Calling skill line, but Daedric Summoning and Dark Magic would stay on their place in sorcerers skills. And if players want, they can turn their necromancers back into usual sorcs, like ppl who can turn their vampires/werewolfs into usual "humans" by special npc cure option.

Of course necromancers shouldn't be like another petsorc or warden's pet class. May be make it able to make zombies from another players corpses in pvp, and theese zombies will attack with abilities from dead player's hotbar on the moment of player's death. Just imagine how fun it would be! And how many variations of this little zombie group possible to build.

No reason to just lock it in for only sorceres. Doesn't make any sense from a balancing or gameplay point of view. Nor lore wise as in elder scrolls you don't need to be a "sorcerer" to perform magic.

THIS.
the point of magic in Elder Scrolls is that anyone can do it. Its like science, if you know what you are doing, then you can do it.

Creating classes for the sake of flavor does not fit in Elder Scrolls

srnekro

Iccotak wrote: »

srnekro wrote: »

I see a great waste of this beautiful profession goes to just one skill line. That would be the same to take out Daedric Summoning from Sorcerer and the animal companions from Warden and put on a skill line for all the other classes. They would lose their essence, what makes them unique, the same thing goes for Necromancers.

Necromancer has a great potential to be a class instead of a skill line. I can see the branches already. One for Restoration/Alteration to inflict diseases and boons. Other for Necromancy(Conjuration) To summon the risen dead. And finally one with Illusion/Mysticism to inflict the curses, cc and debuff. I can't see how all of this can fit in just one skill line.

Stop separating the Schools of magic.
I want more of a return to Elder Scrolls classic schools of magic and skill lines.
Why are the elements separated between three classes?
People all across Tamriel have access to fire magic but you have to play Dragon Knight for more fire magic?
Why do I have to play a daedra summoner to have access to lightning powers?
You have to play Warden for more Ice powers?
They try to make justifications; that the Dragon Knight is an Akiviri art, that the Wardens magic comes from Valenwood, etc.

BUT
The Wardens powers largely show creatures from Vvardenfel except for the Bear. Does that mean that everyone using ice powers had Warden training?
Why would High Elves be using fighting skills of the Akiviri?
Why would Argonians be using Aedric magic when they worship Sithis?
Why would Dunmer be using Aedric spears and such when they worship the Tribunal or Daedra?

NOTE: I am not saying restrict player based on race. I am saying that their justification for where Classes comes from makes no sense.

This effort to make each of these unique classes can lead to a restricting system. Because then you are trying to fill niches and unique flavors, rather than simply letting the player make what they want.
ESO is open right now because there are Not alot of classes and each class has more than just the class skill lines. In fact the system is so open at this point that I have to ask what the point of this class system is in the first place.

If you can wear and use whatever gear you want no matter your class then WHY are schools of magic restricted to you?
Even if you want to be a pure Barbarian warrior you have to level up Casting skill lines.

Conjuration should have its own skill line
Destruction should have its own skill line
Restoration should have its own skill line
Alteration should have its own skill line
Illusion should have its own skill line

ZOS has already said that they are working/thinking about giving each class a DPS skill line, a Tanks skill line, and a Healing skill line. Essentially making classes purely flavor which is limiting for players seeking an RPG route. Any class can be a tank, rogue, ranger, fighter, etc. So what is the point of the class system then?
All classes have done is separate the classic magic schools of ES games.
Now you could make the argument that no restriction means that everyone would play the same thing, but ESO pretty open system has already disproved that. Players have access to all skill lines except for the three specific to other classes and we can see here that they pick and choose depending on the character they want.

I don't want more classes because I don't want further separation and restrictive access to powers and abilities for the sake of uniqueness and flavor. I can make those things on my own with how I build my character

Thank you for being so much clear. I understand so much more now.

You have a point. This game, ESO, is running away from everything that the Elder Scrolls previous game stands for. Liberty. Freedom. The choice to do what ever you want, when you want.

By having classes, even if it is just a few, we don't have that right anymore...

Well, in order to respond to your argument, is simply remove any class that we have on ESO and put it all as a skill line. Making caracter criation original and "free" (with out restrintion). And, isntead of class, would be "build" ideas, like a guide-line to new players or veterans, to base apon when evolving a new character. More Oblivion (the game).

Or, accept that this is not like others Elder Scrolls game, and accept it is different. And accepet that New Classes would be a thing, since THIS IS NOT SKYRIM. Although, I don't see making classes and skill lines. I mean, why should a skill should be more privileged than other to make as a whole new class, and others just a mere skill line? Where's the line? What makes them "different"?
What's the point?...

AnviOfVai

I love Necromancers. I also love playing characters that are evil. I also love playing Stories that make you play the bad guy!
If they did bring out a new class it would be EPIC if they bought out a small necromancer side quest, or heck a huge story based around them, I love to play a bad guy in eso let me do it, I would leave pvp for a while!!

Aeorath

Gothren wrote: »

do we really need another topic on this. lord almighty.

And I think the OP is the same person from previous posts too...