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...and why Necromancers?
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Integral1900✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yay.... more thick as a brick pets with their god aweful ai cluttering up the place
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TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Read the whole thing before engaging your typefingers...Breaking news, you do not need to create a new character if you don't want to level it. You are not forced to do anything. You have free will.
Yes, you don't need to make a new character if you don't want to level it. Duh. Even a zombie could grasp that.TheShadowScout wrote: »...as it still would require people to start a new character to enjoy the new classyness, and vex people who would have wanted that cvlass for an character they played for a long time and spent much effort on.
But you -would- need to make a new character to enjoy a new class...
...and thus any idea making necromancer a new class would require people to make a new character to necromance, since class change is not really a thing here.
Aaaannd that is why I keep arguing against necromancy as new class, and for some way that makes it refitable to ANY character. I know some consider this heresy and necromancer-hating, but I will keep saying it, I can do no other!
And that is something we can at least agree on.
(even if we likely will keep clashing skulls about the "how" ) 0 -
srnekro✭✭✭Integral1900 wrote: »Yay.... more thick as a brick pets with their god aweful ai cluttering up the place
Pet is love. Pet is life mate
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srnekro✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »Aaaannd that is why I keep arguing against necromancy as new class, and for some way that makes it refitable to ANY character. I know some consider this heresy and necromancer-hating, but I will keep saying it, I can do no other!
The thing you need to grasp is that this is a mmorpg. It need classes. It is going to happen. New classes plus others world skill lines will be added to the game. That's the way of any other MMORPG, it need to have new classes to keep the freshness up.
Necromancers will do just fine becasue they have potential to be whole new class. They can grab on so many aspects and can shape them on so many beutifull creations.
And that is something we can at least agree on.TheShadowScout wrote: »Aye mate. We HIGHLY need.
(even if we likely will keep clashing skulls about the "how" )[/quote]
Aye mate
Cheers to the undead 0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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That is not correct.TheShadowScout wrote: »Aaaannd that is why I keep arguing against necromancy as new class, and for some way that makes it refitable to ANY character. I know some consider this heresy and necromancer-hating, but I will keep saying it, I can do no other!
The thing you need to grasp is that this is a mmorpg. It need classes. It is going to happen. New classes plus others world skill lines will be added to the game. That's the way of any other MMORPG, it need to have new classes to keep the freshness up.
It is true that a MMORPG needs -freshness-, needs something new to keep players interested, but new classes are only one way to go about that.
Some MMOs use that shtick (Like WoW, which is not a good reference in my consideration, just because it is the biggest because it was first does not make it good), others do not, and use a different mechanic.
I do like the specializations in star trek online for example, where you can add to the basic three "classes" or tactical, science and engineering officers by learning pilot, command or intelligence skills... (and they keep adding more so people can learn more, though they are limited in what they can use) or add reputation system perks (same thing, they keep adding those, but you have to choose what perks to use - pretty much like skills in ESO...) to your character... because all of that allows you to refit the freshness to old and well developed characters, instead of having to start a new character from scratch for it.
And I am all about refitting freshness to existing characters, if that was not completely obvious by now...
So, I want new stuff as much as anyone, but I want it in ways that allows people to enjoy it with each and every character, no matter if newly created or played since launch!
In that spirit, I am much happier with the Psijic order from Sumerset then the Warden from Morrowind... since everyone can pick up a new guild line if they so choose (or change their race if they were to ever aff some new ones there, which I sincerely hope, but that is a different discussion), but since we have no class change in ESO, new classes require making a new character.
Necromancy as depicted in the elder scrolls universe is a skill line. Unlike some other universes, which are not the elder scrolls universe, and thus irrelevant!Necromancers will do just fine becasue they have potential to be whole new class. They can grab on so many aspects and can shape them on so many beutifull creations.
It -could- be part of a new class, there are several other skill lines that might mesh well with it... but by itself, it is nothing but a subset of conjuration skills (which we already have in some ways through sorceror).
Even the most necromantic necromancer in the history of Tamriel, Mannimarco himself, supports the notion that it should not be a class. Remember his background story? Started out as mage, joining the psijic order, and -then- secretly turned to necromancy resulting in his expulsion from their ranks. If he had been a "necromancer" from the start, they would never have let him join, now would they?
Or that direnni girl you meet in the direnny acropolis on sumerset (well, her ghost anyhow)? Also started as normal mage and -then- turned to necromancy while her sister was away when she met a new boyfriend with "Dark Wisdom"... (that quest is also a good indication of how people in tamriel would react to necromancy)
All that supports my idea that "necromancer" is not something you start out as, but something you learn later on... which would make -perfect- sense with a "specialization system" or as a guild skill line, yes? 0 -
srnekro✭✭✭You can start as a Necromancer. Necromancy can be in a large variety of classes, not just Necros.
Zos can even put like some sort of BlackMage/DarkWizzard or even call it a Witch (don't make gender specific, please) that have skill lines like "Oblivion based/damage or some sort", Diseases/toxic based AND Necromancy. Just a thought tho.
If they make necromANCY a skill line, like guild/world skill line. They better focus solely on minions. Bring them back from the dead, and summoning forth them (soul cairn maybe).
And focus on a class for the rest Necromancer's thing, like diseases, dots, oblivion damage, bone magic (if we can call it that) and more blood magic.0 -
RobDaCool✭✭✭I wouldn't mind seeing a new class, Necromancer or Battle Mage, I've always played a Battle Mage in Elder Scrolls games.
I just don't want another class I've never heard of before... *cough* Warden *cough*
PS4 NA -RobdacoolV21 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd like more options for stamsorc so battle mage becomes something with some variety.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Ehhh... it would make several storylines rather iffy. Both during mainstory, and all the summerset psijic stuff att he very least...You can start as a Necromancer.
Lorewise it would make a -lot- more sense to add this as a latter option if at all. Like I keep saying...
...and that still seems the best way to go about this for ESO.TheShadowScout wrote: »the most reasonable way would be a DLC centered about "infiltrating the remains of the worm cult" to stop their next desperate scheme now that their planemeld plans are all dashed and such (maybe with an -option- to learn necromancy yourself, or to choose not to go there and just pose as "minion" instead, so the story remains viable for both those who like to play eeeebbbbil necromancers and goody-two-greaves? ), possibly in some of the leftover imperial lands (colovian highlands? Nibenay? Blackwood?). Another possibility might be using a similar plot in a desert region abour hammerfell, but... well, we already had our "stop the necromancers from raising the honored dead" story in the DC Alik'r story, so that might be a bit... "been there, done that"... the imperial connection and worm cult infiltration seems the more likely story.
And make necromancy a guild-sized skill line, like the Psijic order thing. Not a class. So that -every- character can choose to specialize in that sort of thing, no matter of newly made or played since launch. Or not, if their stomachs are not up to all the playing with corpses.
So we finally are agreed that necromancers are not a "class" of their own, but a skill line that "a large variety of classes" could take? Yay! Progress!Necromancy can be in a large variety of classes, not just Necros.
Sorceror has the "oblivion connection" in their class skills, tho the powers that be are a bit hesitant to use it as damage much, and have them on magic damage instead.Zos can even put like some sort of BlackMage/DarkWizzard or even call it a Witch (don't make gender specific, please) that have skill lines like "Oblivion based/damage or some sort", Diseases/toxic based AND Necromancy.
Stamina DK has the toxic damage these days (as have archers, but that's a weapon and as such doesn't count)
So that sort of combo kinda would be redundant and it would make -way- more sense to add such as -specializations-. Hmmm... maybe I should think up more options for my class morph idea someday...
As a skill line, the best comparison would be the "Daedric Summoning" skill line of sorcerors. Which isn't all summons by far, but also includes a damaging-curse, a damage-shield and a buff ability... so its reasonable to assume a necromancy skill line would have not only summons.If they make necromANCY a skill line, like guild/world skill line. They better focus solely on minions. Bring them back from the dead, and summoning forth them (soul cairn maybe).
Which brings me back to my idea for that in the aforementioned specializations concept - two summons, one for weak undead (one skeleton, morp choices between one zombie and three weak skeletons), one for strong undead (draugr, morph choices between bone colossus or flesh atronatrch), and then grabbing all the other stuff NPC necromancers or liches throw at us - the "grund snare" spell options, mannimarcos beam of death, mannimarcos necromancy bomb, and the liches soul cage. Bam, there we have a beautiful skill line. And if we had that... together with Soul Magic and a few undaunted abilities (Bone Cage and Necrotic Orb) you could make a -perfectr- necromantic character!
Diseases are not a necromancer thing in the elder scrolls universe, but a Pyrite-cultist thing, a Sload thing or a Black Marsh thing.And focus on a class for the rest Necromancer's thing, like diseases, dots, oblivion damage, bone magic (if we can call it that) and more blood magic.
DOTs are not a necromancer thing in the elder scrolls universe, but a thing for many damage effects - pyromancers fire, assassisn poisons, daedric curses, etc.
Oblivion damage is not a necromancer thing in the elder scrolls universe, but a daedric thing. But an iffy one, that the powers that be might not want to give out too easily due to its non-resistable nature...
Bone magic... well... okay, that one might be necromantic. But, they already gave it out to Undaunted... and in any case, it is not too common, so there just isn't as much to go around...
Blood Magic is not a necromancer thing in the elder scrolls universe, but a Vampire thing, or a siphoning-Nightblade thing.
Really, Necromancers in the elder scrolls universe -are- only about the death magic, and nothing else. And that makes them more suitable as a guild skill line or a sub-class specialization...
...and sadly, you cannot easily do that right now thanks to the current system not being favorable to hybrid characters like the battlemage would be (As I recall, that one was a combi of heavy armor, axe and magic spells...)...I've always played a Battle Mage in Elder Scrolls games...
So, to do a "battlemage" in this game you could go with a heavy armor sorceror I suppose, possibly a hybrid build that mixes destro staff and stamina melee... but it won't be very effective I fear compared to the overspecialized builds dominating the game at the moment...
(and don't I wish it was different and they might bring back softcaps, so hybrid builds would again be within shouting distance of the "all into the damage stat" designs)
Weeeelllll... it should be crystal clear that -I- don't want any new class at all. For reasons stated (the "refitting to old characters" thing).I just don't want another class I've never heard of before...
For that reason I really hope that maybe they will never ever add more classes, and do everything as skill lines like the Psijic... and if they were to add some -choices-, like "Either join the Psijic, or join the Cultists, but not both" or "Either join the Thieves, or join the Guards, bot not both" I would be even happier! (and they could then sell "expulsion scrolls" in the crown store for those who feel the need to "reset" a guild choice to go a different path...)
The classes you have never heard of... well, that has been with this game from the start, so there is that. Wish it had been done differently, but... ship, sailed, sunk, long time ago.1 -
RamiroCruzo✭✭✭neck-romancer? RP bois, invade this topic u_uHaving a light side... And a Dark side... Is what makes life interesting...
High as Nord and Proud as Dark ElfBlood for the Pact0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually I can see it all right, I just also see it would not fit all that well into ESO.No, Necromancer CAN be a class. You just don't see it.
...for one, for the storyline iffyness where our player characters are kinda supposed to be the great enemy of necromancers and their master; where it would make little sense for them to be necromancers from the start, since there might be trust issues for all the questgiver NPCs if the vestige was a Molags Bal-licking necromancer - doubly so when we get to Summerset, where we are working with the definitely-necromancy-hating Psijic Order! Who only recently in elven memory had a very bad experience with necromancers and thus would be double keen on not letting anyone necromance in their vincinity! Thus a way to "refit" necromancy later on would make a lot more sense in this regard...
...and for another, there is the fact that necromancy as depicted in the elder scrolls universe lore -really- only is a skill line dealing with death magic (though granted, it could be done as one skill line of a, say, "Cultist" class, but... it still would make -far- more sense in regard to the TES lore to treat it -just- like the Psijic order, as a guild skill line at best) - after all, this IS the elder scrolls universe we are talking about here. Not "Diablo", not "World of Warcraft", not "Age of Conan", not any other universe, but the elder scrolls universe.
...AND also for the fact that it would be Very annoying to half the playerbase who spent a lot of time already on this game to build up their beloved characters get new classes this late when they would have to do it all over again to enjoy the new classyness, or worse, whine about not having the option back when they made their main and stuffs...
So, all I am saying if that while I want Necromancy for player characters as much as anyone, adding it to ESO as -class- would be a very suboptimal way to go about it in my opinion. Thus I keep trying to think of better ways! And yes, I know some people disagree. But hey, then we will just have to remain in disagreement about the how, and agree only in that getting necromancy for player characters in a general sense would make a interesting option to add, yes? 0 -
Wildberryjack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Add Necromancy as a class and add a new race also, one that is demon or dragon based in appearance. No more human variants please, so boring. I'd roll one in a heartbeat. Really, few things renew interest in a game more than a new class or new race to play around with.Edited by Wildberryjack on December 26, 2018 2:50PMThe purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls. ~Pablo Picasso1 -
BoneShatterer✭✭✭necromancy would be a great asset to the game. but hey that woudl cause such a drama overload over who can be the top evil dps in the game xD0 -
srnekro✭✭✭Wildberryjack wrote: »Add Necromancy as a class and add a new race also, one that is demon or dragon based in appearance. No more human variants please, so boring. I'd roll one in a heartbeat. Really, few things renew interest in a game more than a new class or new race to play around with.
Yup, the dream is to roll an undead necromancer one day. You can't actually find that in any mmorpg nowadays. Such a shame really.0 -
srnekro✭✭✭BoneShatterer wrote: »necromancy would be a great asset to the game. but hey that woudl cause such a drama overload over who can be the top evil dps in the game xD
You are talking about thieves and assassins right?
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BoneShatterer✭✭✭BoneShatterer wrote: »necromancy would be a great asset to the game. but hey that woudl cause such a drama overload over who can be the top evil dps in the game xD
You are talking about thieves and assassins right?
no im talking about the elitists in the game who will do everything to create builds and claim that they are op1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Necromancers can add a ton of variety in the mechanics, while shedding some light in to the lore.
Since the Necromancers are a higlhy difficult matter to discust, I divided the concept in to two parts.
- The Lore's point of view;
- The gameplay/mechanics point of view.
Feel free to check them out, but I warn you they are pretty big, specially the lore's version.
But in short here it goes, The Necromancer is unique, because there isn't a single class in the game that can re-animate the fallen and debuff the enemy. Turning the buffs in to the debuffs and debuffs in to the buffs.
Necromancer focus on CC and buffs/debuffs rather direct damage, which they leave to their pets. They are more a support role rather damage unlike Sorcerer.
Add melee weapons to a Sorcerer and you'll have a Battle Mage. Add dual wielding and a two-handed weapon to a Dragon Knight and you'll have yoursleves a Berserker. But you can't add Necromancy to anything and spect to be a Necromancer.
A Necromancer uses Necromancy/Conjuration to summon undead minions and uses Alteration, restoration, illusion and mysticism to buff allies and CC and debuffing enemies.
ESO has too many buffs and very little debuffs, is up to zos to even the balance. Its a matter of time that they come up with something, or already came up and are just working on it. I can only hope that that something will be Necromancers.
I like the idea of adding a Necromancer class.
Unfortunately your vision of the class as a CC buffs/debuffs support role won't fit into this game, because there is no support role. They will be expected to pump out nearly as much damage as other Damage-Dealing classes otherwise the mob will say they suck (and you can bank on that).
This is just one of many reasons I believe it was a tragic blunder for the MMORPG genre to set aside the support class role to begin with. It severely limits both the variety of classes and the strategic depth of the combat itself. Sadly this newer generation of MMO players care little for anything else besides pumping out massive DPS numbers and killing as quickly as possible.Edited by Jeremy on December 26, 2018 4:12PM0 -
xxthir13enxx✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think they should lock out all dye options at Outfitter stations for Necromancers except Black...other Black and Shiny Black1 -
GBK528Soul ShrivenHi, I know the thread is long dead.. But I have a query and I’m realtively new to ESO so was wondering if anyone could clear it.
If the necromancer class becomes available will I have to delete my existing character to create a new necromancer character.?
Or will ZOS provide a certain number of ‘Class Change Token’s’ to change the class of our existing characters.?
Or will the total number of characters that can be created be increased 2 or 3 slots up.?
I have already created maximum number of characters available and have invested a lot of gold and time in each of these toons and I’m feeling pretty bad to delete some of them to make room for the new class..0 -
Michaelkeir✭✭✭✭✭Yes they will increase the max by 3 slots. We get 1 free and have to buy the last 2 with crowns I believe.0 -
Wildberryjack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi, I know the thread is long dead.. But I have a query and I’m realtively new to ESO so was wondering if anyone could clear it.
If the necromancer class becomes available will I have to delete my existing character to create a new necromancer character.?
Or will ZOS provide a certain number of ‘Class Change Token’s’ to change the class of our existing characters.?
Or will the total number of characters that can be created be increased 2 or 3 slots up.?
I have already created maximum number of characters available and have invested a lot of gold and time in each of these toons and I’m feeling pretty bad to delete some of them to make room for the new class..
We are getting some more slots but I don't know if the number has been said yet, but no you won't have to delete an existing character to make a Necromancer because we'll get at least one (possibly more). They do not have class change ability at all and said they don't plan to do that anytime soon if ever.The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls. ~Pablo Picasso1 -
david_m_18b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
But in short here it goes, The Necromancer is unique, because there isn't a single class in the game that can re-animate the fallen and debuff the enemy. Turning the buffs in to the debuffs and debuffs in to the buffs.
Necromancer focus on CC and buffs/debuffs rather direct damage, which they leave to their pets. They are more a support role rather damage unlike sorcerer.
1) where do you get the idea they will focus on CC and debuff rather then damage dealing ?
2) Necro wont reanimate corps. They wont have pets.
Wich is kinda stupid since its the signature ability of Necro in the elder scroll universe.
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GBK528Soul ShrivenWildberryjack wrote: »Hi, I know the thread is long dead.. But I have a query and I’m realtively new to ESO so was wondering if anyone could clear it.
If the necromancer class becomes available will I have to delete my existing character to create a new necromancer character.?
Or will ZOS provide a certain number of ‘Class Change Token’s’ to change the class of our existing characters.?
Or will the total number of characters that can be created be increased 2 or 3 slots up.?
I have already created maximum number of characters available and have invested a lot of gold and time in each of these toons and I’m feeling pretty bad to delete some of them to make room for the new class..
We are getting some more slots but I don't know if the number has been said yet, but no you won't have to delete an existing character to make a Necromancer because we'll get at least one (possibly more). They do not have class change ability at all and said they don't plan to do that anytime soon if ever.
Thanks for clearing that up.! Hopefully we get more free slots.!
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