Remember when quests were hard?

zaria

Magdalina wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

I mean don't get me wrong vanilla ESO was an absolute mess but I do miss questing being challenging. Like there were fights I legit got caught on my first time leveling. I miss it, the lack of anything resembling a challenge is just what ruins questing for me on this game, I can't take any of it seriously when nothing is dangerous.

Aside from the first Boss for the Fighters Guild. I do not recall the game being all that difficult. I did feel as if Sinmur was a bit of a snorefest with how long it took to kill him. But at no point did I feel "challenged". Rather I was either underpowered and still learning what did and did not work or my failures were tied in some way to glitchy or bugged content that would artificially block me from advancing. The Ash Mountain Questline where you couldnt imprison Balreth was a real pain in the ^%$.

This is just a nostalgia goggles nonsense where you mistake your lack of understanding game mechanics and having characters with a lack of skill points/abilities for having a challenge. And misrepresent the fact that you now should have a better understanding of how to create a build, how to make a functioning skill bar layout and that you are significantly more powerful at CP 6000000000 than you were at level 5.

Old vet zones though. Back when you weighted picking up a node against having to kill 3 trash mobs next to it...and figured it's not worth it.

Also Craglorn at its launch and up til they nerfed it.

Funny enough I don't actually remember Doshia being hard though I did do her a few days after launch(or still during early access even?). I do remember some Mannimarco fights though and...yeah. Vet zones op. Never thought I'd miss them.

Dorsia was hard as none knew how to interrupt or use AoE to kill the balls. Add few skills and junk gear.
Zones was pretty easy as I tended to out level everything.
VR zones was harder, some of the boss fights was hard but it got easier.

RaddlemanNumber7

Start a new character, don't give them any CP, only equip them with the gear they pick up, and the quests are still quite hard.

If you go straight out of the Morrowind tutorial and do Vvardefell like that some of the delve bosses are really tough solo fights.

Junipus

VaranisArano

You mean back when fights were hard...before I learned how to do a proper combat rotation, before I learned to DPS with weapons other than a sword and shield, before I got any Champion Points to use on other characters... (Oh, don't forget that if you leveled up a couple times you could come back and those fights would become trivial.)

Thing is, I can't remove my experience with the game. After the first time through, nothing was every as hard as it was the first time because I knew how to play the game.

Oh, and if you want a challenge, try leveling a new character with no CP. You'll still have your experience, the ability to get good food/drink for the character and your knowledge of a proper combat rotation, but in my experience leveling a warden with no CP, it was not as easy as I thought it would be. Most miniboss fights took me two tries in order to learn the mechanic and then execute my skills properly with way less sustain than I would have if I had CP.

altemriel

ParaNostram wrote: »

I mean don't get me wrong vanilla ESO was an absolute mess but I do miss questing being challenging. Like there were fights I legit got caught on my first time leveling. I miss it, the lack of anything resembling a challenge is just what ruins questing for me on this game, I can't take any of it seriously when nothing is dangerous.

no I dont remember that, all the quests that I did so far were pretty easy, or so moderate, not too hard, not too easy

kylewwefan

When quests were hard, I waited till I was over leveled for them, so I could go back in and spin to win a few times and clear a room.

Questing is still quite fun and challenging on low level toons with bad gear, or toons set up for PvP. but is not quick.

cant complain about quest being too easy when your on an end game leveled fully legendary geared out toon. Could you imagine questing if everything was like trial level mobs and bosses. It would be terrible. And even worse for not max level players.

Questing is about as good it can get now IMO.

Doctordarkspawn

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Member Doshia?

Yeah.

She was ***.

Doctordarkspawn

ParaNostram wrote: »

I mean don't get me wrong vanilla ESO was an absolute mess but I do miss questing being challenging. Like there were fights I legit got caught on my first time leveling. I miss it, the lack of anything resembling a challenge is just what ruins questing for me on this game, I can't take any of it seriously when nothing is dangerous.

If all you can obsess over is challenge, the problem lies with you.

I, personally, dont miss the bad balance, horrible scaling, and slog through combat with that difficulty with enemies populating most of the map. Methinks rose tinted glasses are involved.

ValkynSketha

I want old eso back, atleast without sustain changes, heavy attacking is NOT FUN .

tinythinker

This issue comes up a lot, so I repost this a lot: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349826/fixing-too-easy-and-no-incentive-to-replay

It doesn't hurt new players or those who just want to experience the story, and coding wise shouldn't be that hard. Basically voluntary debuffs tied into a new reward/progression system that has its own story.

goldenarcher1

I suppose questing could be a bit more challenging.

zaria

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Start a new character, don't give them any CP, only equip them with the gear they pick up, and the quests are still quite hard.

If you go straight out of the Morrowind tutorial and do Vvardefell like that some of the delve bosses are really tough solo fights.

Not exactly hard but far harder, created an stamina warden on PTS, no cp, only found gear and food, was some quest bosses like the warclaws I died multiple times on, yes it was an bow build with DW it would probably been far easier.

Kiralyn2000

Remember when you were a new player, and didn't understand every game mechanic inside & out?

(which no CP & bad gear won't change. Which is why you'll always have l33t d00ds saying that they can still do everything with their hands tied behind their back. Just like good Dark Souls players who, once they've grokked all the enemy patterns, say it's 'easy' with just a rusty knife.)

dennissomb16_ESO

If you want some difficulty in questing simply remove all your champ points, take off armor except weapon, no food, pots etc. and simply make yourself vulnerable.

Cadbury

Difficulty toggle

D0PAMINE

In 2014 I had trouble with Faolchu and had my toon turned into a Werewolf to beat him.

Apherius

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

If you want some difficulty in questing simply remove all your champ points, take off armor except weapon, no food, pots etc. and simply make yourself vulnerable.

You probably not understand the difference between those you want to increase artificially the difficulty( = create their own challenge) and those who want the game to give them a challenge

what next ? " if you want some difficulty play with equilibrium and nord " ?

I'm one of those who want the game to give them a challenge without having to play naked or without cp, why ? Because i want this try hard to feel like a push through the limit using everysingle toll i have to do it ( stuff, cp ect... ).
And not play naked while knowing that i could easily nuke the donjon if i was wearing my equipement ... even if i complete it naked I won't get the same feeling as everysingle person get once they did Vma for the first time ... I would just be sad to see that the game is easier than I thought.

Pretty hard to explain.

Darethran

It was never hard. You just had a worse damage formula.

Hard would be NPCs that respond to your play style, attack more than once every three seconds, and actually attempt strategy. For example, the AI in Age of Empires 2 HD is difficult, as it uses actual tactics without being given boosts the player cannot access. Another example would be the AI in For Honor; not fantastically smart, but at least the AI actually performs.

In MMOs, PvE difficulty is just giving a worthless dummy a much higher damage formula. That's not difficulty, that's ***.

VaranisArano

Apherius wrote: »

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

If you want some difficulty in questing simply remove all your champ points, take off armor except weapon, no food, pots etc. and simply make yourself vulnerable.

You probably not understand the difference between those you want to increase artificially the difficulty( = create their own challenge) and those who want the game to give them a challenge

what next ? " if you want some difficulty play with equilibrium and nord " ?

I'm one of those who want the game to give them a challenge without having to play naked or without cp, why ? Because i want this try hard to feel like a push through the limit using everysingle toll i have to do it ( stuff, cp ect... ).
And not play naked while knowing that i could easily nuke the donjon if i was wearing my equipement ... even if i complete it naked I won't get the same feeling as everysingle person get once they did Vma for the first time ... I would just be sad to see that the game is easier than I thought.

Pretty hard to explain.

You'll never recapture that feeling of completing VMA for the first time. You'll never recapture the feeling of those first fights that kicked your butt.

Some of that is nerfs. Some of that is power creep. Most of it is simple experience with the game.

There's no way for ZOS to push you, an experienced player, to your limits without also making overland content too hard for new players who don't have that experience. And if you think the game is too easy for new inexperienced players, I'd like to direct you to the "Players helping Players" forums and the numerous complaints about noobs not knowing what to do in dungeons.

Wreuntzylla

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I remember a quest that was in Glenumbra that had a bunch of ghost that ports you to the past. It was the first time I came up to mobs that spawn in packs of 3 or 4. I died over and over again but it was in that quest I learned to use AoEs and talons. I had to really work for it back when I was lvl 8ish.

Another time was when I first hit VR1 I went to the AD zones and could not kill anything. Anything that had 3 mobs was so hard to kill. I would get one down then the other two would do me in, respawn then kill the other 2. I had to look up build videos and that’s when I learned about sets and crafting and skill combos and self heals. After I got some gold got some gear I went back in and even though it was hard I still cleared everything in silver and gold.

My point the game being hard showed me my short comings and made me ask zone chat for help and looks things up more to be better. I became much more social bc I needed the community and I became a much better player at the same time.

The version of the game we have now does nothing to push the player to be better and learn there class. This is why we have so many horrible low cp players nothing pushes them to be better and learn at early lvls.

Finally, someone that isn't new here.

There was a time you needed a raid to kill 3 skeevers. So many people left the game over crazy hard champion leveling and won't come back.

They finally fixed it but too late. This game would be overpopulated if they had't done that.

KRBMMO

ParaNostram wrote: »

I mean don't get me wrong vanilla ESO was an absolute mess but I do miss questing being challenging. Like there were fights I legit got caught on my first time leveling. I miss it, the lack of anything resembling a challenge is just what ruins questing for me on this game, I can't take any of it seriously when nothing is dangerous.

Some Quests can still be Challenging if you:
1 - Disable CP
2 - Only use items that character finds (no crafted items like crafted sets,, food, improved items, etc.) No hand me downs from other toons, etc.
3 - Play at a time when there are few other players around.
4 - Play in the Zones that used to be Higher Level Zones before 1T. Even with level scaling it can be more challenging to fight multiple opponents if you don't have any AOE's

If all that fails, go to Wrothgar and do the daily Zone Boss quests solo.

GrigorijMalahevich

I remember “Hi I am prophet” and when level scalling was not a thing and I came to The Rift to fight those 40lvl skeletons and that was challenging as hell!!

VaranisArano

I remember the progressive miss chance that came with fighting things more than 5 levels above my current level. No thanks.

KRBMMO

Or just start brand new on a new server. If you're NA go EU and vice versa. Then you don't even have any guildies or friends.

Apherius

VaranisArano wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

If you want some difficulty in questing simply remove all your champ points, take off armor except weapon, no food, pots etc. and simply make yourself vulnerable.

You probably not understand the difference between those you want to increase artificially the difficulty( = create their own challenge) and those who want the game to give them a challenge

what next ? " if you want some difficulty play with equilibrium and nord " ?

I'm one of those who want the game to give them a challenge without having to play naked or without cp, why ? Because i want this try hard to feel like a push through the limit using everysingle toll i have to do it ( stuff, cp ect... ).
And not play naked while knowing that i could easily nuke the donjon if i was wearing my equipement ... even if i complete it naked I won't get the same feeling as everysingle person get once they did Vma for the first time ... I would just be sad to see that the game is easier than I thought.

Pretty hard to explain.

You'll never recapture that feeling of completing VMA for the first time. You'll never recapture the feeling of those first fights that kicked your butt.

Some of that is nerfs. Some of that is power creep. Most of it is simple experience with the game.

There's no way for ZOS to push you, an experienced player, to your limits without also making overland content too hard for new players who don't have that experience. And if you think the game is too easy for new inexperienced players, I'd like to direct you to the "Players helping Players" forums and the numerous complaints about noobs not knowing what to do in dungeons.

They can add Tier in dungeon, don't even need gold jewerly, just some achievement over here and a lot of Try-hard needed.

In overland i agree that the system would be very complex to add ...

MasterSpatula

*Snore* This again?

Everything in this game takes too long as it is. Epic fights for every quest miniboss would mean every quest was a big PITA. It would mean none of them would stand out. Yeah, some of the quests could use a buff in their end boss, but certainly not all of them. Make the hard fights more meaningful, not less so. Make getting stuff done take a reasonable amount of time, not a slog through one time-consuming struggle after another.

NyassaV

I run quests in speed/pvp gear

So prisoners with rapids, cloak, and concealed weapon. I still hit hard

TheShadowScout

Ah, yes... I do remember the days before the coming of the big nerf... when some fights, you had to...


Buuut, in times of battle levelling (and thus, all the stuff balanced to be equal for -everyone- since you cannot just come back later for an easier time at it) and champion point power boost all the way, don't bother looking to basic quests for tough fights.
...if you want a challenge, go soloing public dungeons. More of a challenge? There is craglorn dwelves, and the maelstrom arena. And if that is not enough... you can always try your mettle against the normal world bosses or full out dungeons all on your own. I tip my hat to those who do this, since its well beyond my merely adequate gaming capabilities, but I keep hearing rumors some manage it, so...

duendology

Feels like I am listening to grandparents talking about their youth and good old times..

Runs

ParaNostram wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Member Doshia?

Yeah I member!

Member Molag Bal being hard?

I just did the final Molag Bal quest on my wardens last week... You know you can't take damage now... ***, I mean I remember it being super easy cause of the power but pretty sure I actually had to make sure I didn't die.