Remember when quests were hard?

ParaNostram

I mean don't get me wrong vanilla ESO was an absolute mess but I do miss questing being challenging. Like there were fights I legit got caught on my first time leveling. I miss it, the lack of anything resembling a challenge is just what ruins questing for me on this game, I can't take any of it seriously when nothing is dangerous.

MLGProPlayer

This is especially a problem once you hit endgame. What's the point of the new DLC and expansions if nothing can kill you?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Member Doshia?

ParaNostram

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Member Doshia?

Yeah I member!

Member Molag Bal being hard?

JamieAubrey

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Member Doshia?

#NeverForget

Whatzituyah

I think the reason they are easier now is for their potential customers. I mean think about it would you really want to discourage someone from playing the game if it was too hard?

Narvuntien

I remember that I went to craglorn far too early, as soon as I got to the capital.. and got my face beat in by gargoyls all over the place.

But I only started playing just over a year ago.

Neoauspex

Nope.

Runefang

Every MMO goes through this issue, what's hard at the beginning of the MMO life cycle gradually gets easier and by the time the MMO is mature it's too easy for anybody with experience.

Korah_Eaglecry

ParaNostram wrote: »

I mean don't get me wrong vanilla ESO was an absolute mess but I do miss questing being challenging. Like there were fights I legit got caught on my first time leveling. I miss it, the lack of anything resembling a challenge is just what ruins questing for me on this game, I can't take any of it seriously when nothing is dangerous.

Aside from the first Boss for the Fighters Guild. I do not recall the game being all that difficult. I did feel as if Sinmur was a bit of a snorefest with how long it took to kill him. But at no point did I feel "challenged". Rather I was either underpowered and still learning what did and did not work or my failures were tied in some way to glitchy or bugged content that would artificially block me from advancing. The Ash Mountain Questline where you couldnt imprison Balreth was a real pain in the ^%$.

This is just a nostalgia goggles nonsense where you mistake your lack of understanding game mechanics and having characters with a lack of skill points/abilities for having a challenge. And misrepresent the fact that you now should have a better understanding of how to create a build, how to make a functioning skill bar layout and that you are significantly more powerful at CP 6000000000 than you were at level 5.

Betsararie

Nope

idk

I remember the first couple months of the game. Yes.

I also remember life before CP. Lets not forget we did not have all the set bonus gear we have now. Yes, we could craft a few sets that early on, but not as much as we can now, let alone the drop sets we did not have yet when we just started out. Of of course we are much more familiar with the game mechanics now.

All of that plays a huge role. Yes, I know content has been nerfed, but that is only part of it.

MLGProPlayer

Runefang wrote: »

Every MMO goes through this issue, what's hard at the beginning of the MMO life cycle gradually gets easier and by the time the MMO is mature it's too easy for anybody with experience.

It's not even an experience thing. It's just power creep.

I'll do a video (I said I would a while ago but been busy) where I stand with light crafted armour in Clockwork City with no food or buffs and wait 1+ minute to get killed by a mob. Then I will fight the same mob using only my spammable skill (no glyphs, no buffs, no weaving, nothing) and obliterate it. Your stats just become way too strong for the overworld once you hit endgame CP.

Craglorn is the only zone done right. There is a mix of easy and challenging content.

Meld777

I would expect that at least end bosses are somewhat challenging. Like the end boss of the Morrowind questline (Barbas). He just instantly lost all his HP to basic attacks, ported around a bit, and died. Or King Kurog in Orsinium. For how many mechanics are intended there, the difficulty level is a pure joke.

I understand that solo instances shouldn't be made too hard, but this is an MMO. As long as you're able to bring a 4-man (or even 36-man) party - crank up the difficulty! End bosses shouldn't be beaten with mechanic skips by 1 naked person without food or CP, standing in one place, spamming 1 button.

Yes, there are the 1%. People solo'd most Vet HM DLC dungeons, did vMA with no CP, armor, weapons and food... that's not the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people that cannot complete DLC dungeons or do any vet content. Even they get absolutely zero challenge out there. There is nothing that could move their health bars. All mechanics are pure lighting effects with zero danger.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Member Doshia?

I member.

Draxys

Been here since day one and the only quest I remember being hard was that giant at the end of the EP storyline (I was AD.)

Mayrael

I remember my first days back in 2014, when I was happy as f when I have unlocked new skills that allowed me to kill 3 mobs at a time. I remember my first enter into vet zone and got killed by 3 mobs. It was... Fantastic! I had to think about my build and improve it, I was so proud when I got back and could kill 6 mobs at a time.

I really would like to have an option to choose between normal and veteran zones for each existing zone. Vet zones could be a lot harder but have more nodes, more chances to drop overland sets from "normal" mobs and all mission bosses would drop set parts like world bosses, while world bosses and anchors would be even harder but would drop always two purple quality set parts. This would allow new players to finish quests easly and when they feel that they are ready they could enter into vet zones for some chalange, better rewards and to test their strength. Ahhh dreaming...

Ragnork

I recently started a new character on the na server - normally play on eu - without cp and a source of good weapons and armour it is tough.. or at least tougher (I certainly die more often)

Chilly-McFreeze

Mayrael wrote: »

I remember my first days back in 2014, when I was happy as f when I have unlocked new skills that allowed me to kill 3 mobs at a time. I remember my first enter into vet zone and got killed by 3 mobs. It was... Fantastic! I had to think about my build and improve it, I was so proud when I got back and could kill 6 mobs at a time.

I really would like to have an option to choose between normal and veteran zones for each existing zone. Vet zones could be a lot harder but have more nodes, more chances to drop overland sets from "normal" mobs and all mission bosses would drop set parts like world bosses, while world bosses and anchors would be even harder but would drop always two purple quality set parts. This would allow new players to finish quests easly and when they feel that they are ready they could enter into vet zones for some chalange, better rewards and to test their strength. Ahhh dreaming...

Totally agree, but honestly, I also would be happy about vet zones even when the rewards would be the same. I understand, incentives to lure players there, but be prepared for some people lecturing you that you really just want more rewards. I've seen it in other threads about this topic.

FloppyTouch

I remember a quest that was in Glenumbra that had a bunch of ghost that ports you to the past. It was the first time I came up to mobs that spawn in packs of 3 or 4. I died over and over again but it was in that quest I learned to use AoEs and talons. I had to really work for it back when I was lvl 8ish.

Another time was when I first hit VR1 I went to the AD zones and could not kill anything. Anything that had 3 mobs was so hard to kill. I would get one down then the other two would do me in, respawn then kill the other 2. I had to look up build videos and that’s when I learned about sets and crafting and skill combos and self heals. After I got some gold got some gear I went back in and even though it was hard I still cleared everything in silver and gold.

My point the game being hard showed me my short comings and made me ask zone chat for help and looks things up more to be better. I became much more social bc I needed the community and I became a much better player at the same time.

The version of the game we have now does nothing to push the player to be better and learn there class. This is why we have so many horrible low cp players nothing pushes them to be better and learn at early lvls.

Jade1986

I just wish it were skyrim adept difficulty level at least. I mean the big baddies in this game are incredibly anticlimactic because they are so easy. .....

nnargun

Nope. But I would really appreciate quests with (much) higher difficulty. Really a shame...all the content but no motivation to play. So far I visited CWC and Vvardenfell only for skyshards and the transmutation station and I don't intend to do much more than that.

Jade1986

Ragnork wrote: »

I recently started a new character on the na server - normally play on eu - without cp and a source of good weapons and armour it is tough.. or at least tougher (I certainly die more often)

Even without good armor, without weapons and without cp I haven't died since doshia in 2014. .

Bobby_V_Rockit

Oh I ‘member! That was fanteeeestic!

nnargun

Ragnork wrote: »

I recently started a new character on the na server - normally play on eu - without cp and a source of good weapons and armour it is tough.. or at least tougher (I certainly die more often)

Yeah no it's really not. Started fresh on PC EU too and was bored with questing right from the beginng. It's only hard when you step foot in the game for the first time and you absolutely have no clue what you are doing.
As soon as you start using buff food (normal bread for max health already op for questing) and some kind of rudimentary rotation overland is absolute cake.

edit:
If there were five difficulty levels to choose from this current one would certainly be the "Very Easy/Absolute Beginner" option. I see why it is how it is but it's definetly demotivating and actually quite a pain for any mildly experienced player.

Hallothiel

Hmm. In two minds about this.

Whilst I do remember pre - cp days and the fear when entering a new zone with higher level enemies that you were about to get totally annihilated - which was fun! - I must admit that even now, what with all my fabulous max cp points & experience in dungeons and trials, I do find bosses I can't solo first try. Have to actually work out what to do.

Mainly world bosses or ones in punlic dungeons. Or even some dolmens - have been too cocky about resource management and died which always makes me laugh.

But then I am not exactly a pro player, so it's to be expected.

Also agree with post above - started new char on NA server and boy was it different without all the cp........

Jade1986

Hallothiel wrote: »

Hmm. In two minds about this.

Whilst I do remember pre - cp days and the fear when entering a new zone with higher level enemies that you were about to get totally annihilated - which was fun! - I must admit that even now, what with all my fabulous max cp points & experience in dungeons and trials, I do find bosses I can't solo first try. Have to actually work out what to do.

Mainly world bosses or ones in punlic dungeons. Or even some dolmens - have been too cocky about resource management and died which always makes me laugh.

But then I am not exactly a pro player, so it's to be expected.

Also agree with post above - started new char on NA server and boy was it different without all the cp........

The thing is world bosses should not BE soloable , same with dolmens, and group dungeons. The fact that they are speaks volumes about the easiness.

Magdalina

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

I mean don't get me wrong vanilla ESO was an absolute mess but I do miss questing being challenging. Like there were fights I legit got caught on my first time leveling. I miss it, the lack of anything resembling a challenge is just what ruins questing for me on this game, I can't take any of it seriously when nothing is dangerous.

Aside from the first Boss for the Fighters Guild. I do not recall the game being all that difficult. I did feel as if Sinmur was a bit of a snorefest with how long it took to kill him. But at no point did I feel "challenged". Rather I was either underpowered and still learning what did and did not work or my failures were tied in some way to glitchy or bugged content that would artificially block me from advancing. The Ash Mountain Questline where you couldnt imprison Balreth was a real pain in the ^%$.

This is just a nostalgia goggles nonsense where you mistake your lack of understanding game mechanics and having characters with a lack of skill points/abilities for having a challenge. And misrepresent the fact that you now should have a better understanding of how to create a build, how to make a functioning skill bar layout and that you are significantly more powerful at CP 6000000000 than you were at level 5.

Old vet zones though. Back when you weighted picking up a node against having to kill 3 trash mobs next to it...and figured it's not worth it.

Also Craglorn at its launch and up til they nerfed it.

Funny enough I don't actually remember Doshia being hard though I did do her a few days after launch(or still during early access even?). I do remember some Mannimarco fights though and...yeah. Vet zones op. Never thought I'd miss them.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Hallothiel wrote: »

Hmm. In two minds about this.

Whilst I do remember pre - cp days and the fear when entering a new zone with higher level enemies that you were about to get totally annihilated - which was fun! - I must admit that even now, what with all my fabulous max cp points & experience in dungeons and trials, I do find bosses I can't solo first try. Have to actually work out what to do.

Mainly world bosses or ones in punlic dungeons. Or even some dolmens - have been too cocky about resource management and died which always makes me laugh.

But then I am not exactly a pro player, so it's to be expected.

Also agree with post above - started new char on NA server and boy was it different without all the cp........

We nicknamed Greenshade “Pandora” cos if anything looked at you, you died, at the level we were at, back in 2016.

Dawnblade

CWC was really a let down, many of the mobs have a lot of flash (and lots of annoying CC and things like knock downs, knock backs, roots, stuns), but considering you can ignore them all and just run through zones to the objectives and kill anything that doesn't leash, then kill the boss while standing in bad spamming whatever random ability is bound the 1, it doesn't really feel engaging.

Lark82

I remember hitting VR1 and suddenly any more than 2 mobs was a real challenge.

I also remember all the threads on the forums crying about it and calling for it to be nerfed!

Robo_Hobo

I remember a lot of fights where I died many times back then. I do miss it, but it's hard for me to tell if the difficulty came more from the stats of the enemies or my lack of knowledge of the game at the time.

I mean my first main quester was a Breton Dragonknight in heavy armor and a 2h (all non-set, quest reward stuff with whatever default enchantment, default trait, and default quality it had), who used magicka and stamina abilities pretty evenly split, with no food buffs because I didn't know they existed somehow. I also didn't have any real means of self healing besides potions until by the time I was almost to Coldharbour. Or any effective aoe abilities (or so I thought).

I also always seemed to be a few levels behind the recommended for the quest, but I didn't want to stop to train up because I liked the quests so much I wanted to keep going.

I enjoyed the difficulty, but I would be lying if I said most of it didn't come from unintentional self-imposed ignorance of over half of the utilities you get in combat :P