How do we encourage tanking?

Runefang · December 2017

Tonturri wrote: »

I feel that - how to say, 'normal'? - tanking is far too passive. It's taunt this (and don't need to use taunt for another 14 sec), block that or hold block, face boss this way, keep up this and that buff. The most fun I have in the role is when I put a DPS setup in heavy armor and try to do everything at once.

[snip]

Very good points made here. Too passive indeed.

Healing is as passive as you want to make it really. From spamming mutagen/BoL/Ward at one end and throwing down all manner of buffs/debuffs/dps abilities as well as healing at the other. So it tends not to be boring unless you're a lazy healer.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Well, tanking could be encouraged if it didn't become severely nerfed every patch while fixes for particular aspects of tanking were taking years to change.

This.

For the longest time tanking has been nerfed time and again. Needs to stop.

I'd also like to signal boost the idea that tanking is TOO PASSIVE. This at it's core is why I've allways hated how tanking is done in this game. I like an active rotation, I like something to do while I've got aggro. it's why I've allways loved healtanks, and why my I've liked the idea that the Templar would eventually become a healtank, or the Nightblade which practically is allready.

I'd love for ZOS to stop fighting me on that. Let Sorc and DK be passive, blocktanks, and let Templar and Nightblade be much more active, roation focused healtanks.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

ThinkerOfThings wrote: »

Role Specific Buffs for Dungeons

As an idea to improve this situation from a development standpoint, ZoS might want to provide each player a buff based on the role they select while in a normal or veteran dungeon. An example of this would be:

Tank: Once every X number of seconds, a light or heavy attack will taunt your target ( This would improve the situation for people who have to play with Tanks that do not taunt ex: Running around with a staff as a Tank Role)

Healer: Once every X number of seconds, your healing abilities will grant the "Healer" buff, when you reach X amount of stacks of "Healer" your next Healing ability costs no resource

DPS: Heavy attacks provide the player with the "Burn them" buff, when you reach X number of stacks, your next ability will be a critical hit

These are just some idea's on buffs that could improve this situation. Overall, a buff that supports a player in a given role, might be a good development solution to some of the issues we have seen with players queuing for a role they are not suited for. This would encourage players to perform ( and excel ) in the role they queued for instead of punishing players, who may not know what they are doing or ultimately don't care at the expense of the other members of the group.

Thoughts?

I'd also like to take -this- to it's logical conclusion.

Each class chooses one roll. Get a buff based on the class and the roll it's in.

For templar, give them a shield that scales with health every time they heal themselves. Something like that, if ZOS wants to reduce our bloody healing capability.

The possibilities to encourage active tanking are endless.

THWIP71 · December 2017

In the NBA, they allow multiple superstars to teamup, and rig the draft lottery. Seems to work for them.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

Gonna give this a bump and say this also:

Even if you make content that needs the trunity, if one part of the trinity is treated like utter garbage like tanking has, with no options, no style variation and no support, people wont pick it up. S'just what it is.

And we all know Mr I hate Tanks Wrobel's stance on it, and how it's been since he took over.

Wifeaggro13 · December 2017

Ajaxduo wrote: »

You make mechanics which only tanks are capable of dealing with, but Zo$ is still better off removing role requirements from normals and giving extra bolster buffs. Why? Because most people will always player DPS no matter what.

thats not true people were screaming for bards and some sort of enchanter cc class. people play dps here because the game was designed around it

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Ajaxduo wrote: »

You make mechanics which only tanks are capable of dealing with, but Zo$ is still better off removing role requirements from normals and giving extra bolster buffs. Why? Because most people will always player DPS no matter what.

thats not true people were screaming for bards and some sort of enchanter cc class. people play dps here because the game was designed around it

Of all the things I despute, I have never desputed this, the game is absolutely designed to cater to DPS.

Most mechanics can be burned through and they've taken serious steps to hamper this equasion wise, some mechanically, but never on a -design- level. They dont encourage anything else. They penalize DPS, they penalize people who try to burn, but they dont give tanks and healers and CC guys support.

gr4yrang3r87 · December 2017

Tanking is encouraged when it doesn't intimidate the &@$% out of people. Trust me, if any of you guys played any other mmo's out there besides eso with half the toxicity, then you know what I'm talking about. I've only encountered one thing while tanking in this game and it was only someone telling me to position somewhere during a boss fight (which I ignored) but.. thanks anyway! Lol.

That's really the key for all new tank players is just to ignore the toxicity. If people are screaming down your throats via mics, just block em, laugh your @%& off at em, or leave the channel and keep going, that's really the trick right there. Same for healers as well. Never give up.

Runefang · December 2017

gr4yrang3r87 wrote: »

Tanking is encouraged when it doesn't intimidate the &@$% out of people. Trust me, if any of you guys played any other mmo's out there besides eso with half the toxicity, then you know what I'm talking about. I've only encountered one thing while tanking in this game and it was only someone telling me to position somewhere during a boss fight (which I ignored) but.. thanks anyway! Lol.

That's really the key for all new tank players is just to ignore the toxicity. If people are screaming down your throats via mics, just block em, laugh your @%& off at em, or leave he channel and keep going, that's really the trick right there. Never give up.

Tanks have it easy in this game, because it's easy. It is far more intense in other games.

paulsimonps · December 2017

Tonturri wrote: »

I feel that - how to say, 'normal'? - tanking is far too passive. It's taunt this (and don't need to use taunt for another 14 sec), block that or hold block, face boss this way, keep up this and that buff. The most fun I have in the role is when I put a DPS setup in heavy armor and try to do everything at once.

When that happens, I'm alive when the rest of my group is dead NOT because I had my block button taped down or because I have so much health I can't possibly die unless I have a screw up of monstrous proportions, but because I managed blocking, healing, dodging, and mitigation buffs well enough that I came out ahead, even in a DLC dungeon while running 23k health - I can even contribute meaningful DPS.

I played tanks for years before I DPS'ed, and I enjoyed DPSing so much more because it felt extremely active. If I sat there and did nothing, or merely pressed a button every so often at a lazy pace, I got trash results. When I did my best to be quick at my rotation, refresh everything at the right time while keeping up everything else, etc, it was fun and I felt like I was actually doing something.

Tanking is easy. It's always been having to deal with not only being expected to lead the group, but being expected to be bored for x length of time depending on how competent/incompetent they were, or having to deal with the bad attitude of another group member because for whatever reason I can't carry them - dude, I'm sorry, the way numbers in this game work mean I can't carry you. It just doesn't work. <---That is what has driven me away from tanking at times. The weird and (to me) seemingly nonsensical expectations of my group combined with how passive my role is. I wouldn't mind taking an extra 5-10min to kill a boss if my own role wasn't so boring.

A while ago - maybe this is still the case, I haven't kept terribly up to date - it was expected that tanks wear the Ebon armor set that gives health to your group. Just...a flat health bonus. That requires no effort on your part. That's godawful boring.

Meanwhile, healers get Spellpower Cure, which requires at least some action on their part to give/get the benefit of the 5 piece. I feel this serves as a good example.

If you want a more active set to run you can run Torug's and Alkosh. Try getting really really high up time on those 2 at the same time, not the easiest thing in the world and trust me you got to be active then. Tanking is as passive as you make it, I don't think its passive at all, but that is cause I don't make it passive, I do everything that I can do while I tank. That always gives me something to do, same thing goes for healers, something people have already said is as passive as you want to make it, I claim the same thing for tanks.

paulsimonps · December 2017

Runefang wrote: »

gr4yrang3r87 wrote: »

Tanking is encouraged when it doesn't intimidate the &@$% out of people. Trust me, if any of you guys played any other mmo's out there besides eso with half the toxicity, then you know what I'm talking about. I've only encountered one thing while tanking in this game and it was only someone telling me to position somewhere during a boss fight (which I ignored) but.. thanks anyway! Lol.

That's really the key for all new tank players is just to ignore the toxicity. If people are screaming down your throats via mics, just block em, laugh your @%& off at em, or leave he channel and keep going, that's really the trick right there. Never give up.

Tanks have it easy in this game, because it's easy. It is far more intense in other games.

Yet apparently finding people that knows how to tank is monstrously hard. And while dungeons often are really easy like you say, Trials are not and is where Tanking truly shines. Most of these comments seem to be aimed at dungeons from what I can tell but its very much so a different story in Trials.

gr4yrang3r87 · December 2017

Runefang wrote: »

Tanks have it easy in this game, because it's easy. It is far more intense in other games.

Says who? You speak for all tanks in the universe? Please.. it might be more intense in other games but it's the same job. Troll elsewhere.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

I feel that - how to say, 'normal'? - tanking is far too passive. It's taunt this (and don't need to use taunt for another 14 sec), block that or hold block, face boss this way, keep up this and that buff. The most fun I have in the role is when I put a DPS setup in heavy armor and try to do everything at once.

When that happens, I'm alive when the rest of my group is dead NOT because I had my block button taped down or because I have so much health I can't possibly die unless I have a screw up of monstrous proportions, but because I managed blocking, healing, dodging, and mitigation buffs well enough that I came out ahead, even in a DLC dungeon while running 23k health - I can even contribute meaningful DPS.

I played tanks for years before I DPS'ed, and I enjoyed DPSing so much more because it felt extremely active. If I sat there and did nothing, or merely pressed a button every so often at a lazy pace, I got trash results. When I did my best to be quick at my rotation, refresh everything at the right time while keeping up everything else, etc, it was fun and I felt like I was actually doing something.

Tanking is easy. It's always been having to deal with not only being expected to lead the group, but being expected to be bored for x length of time depending on how competent/incompetent they were, or having to deal with the bad attitude of another group member because for whatever reason I can't carry them - dude, I'm sorry, the way numbers in this game work mean I can't carry you. It just doesn't work. <---That is what has driven me away from tanking at times. The weird and (to me) seemingly nonsensical expectations of my group combined with how passive my role is. I wouldn't mind taking an extra 5-10min to kill a boss if my own role wasn't so boring.

A while ago - maybe this is still the case, I haven't kept terribly up to date - it was expected that tanks wear the Ebon armor set that gives health to your group. Just...a flat health bonus. That requires no effort on your part. That's godawful boring.

Meanwhile, healers get Spellpower Cure, which requires at least some action on their part to give/get the benefit of the 5 piece. I feel this serves as a good example.

If you want a more active set to run you can run Torug's and Alkosh. Try getting really really high up time on those 2 at the same time, not the easiest thing in the world and trust me you got to be active then. Tanking is as passive as you make it, I don't think its passive at all, but that is cause I don't make it passive, I do everything that I can do while I tank. That always gives me something to do, same thing goes for healers, something people have already said is as passive as you want to make it, I claim the same thing for tanks.

"Tanking is as passive as you make it?" No it isn't. It's designed around blocking, sitting there, and managing resources and buffs, all while holding left click.

I want to actually have something to do. I want Blood Death Knight from WoW. I wanted something like that, I dont want to be falling asleep, and that's all current tanking is.

Just because you've found a way to make the system bearable does not mean the system isn't itself passive. Sorry.

Edit: Also. Alkosh is a *** trial set for one of the hardest raids around. You'd have to run it a hell of alot to get it, even with transmutation. Not exactly accessable for those who want to get into tanking.

Joy_Division · December 2017

How to encourage tanking?

Stop nerfing the crap out of it would be a good place to start.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

How to encourage tanking?

Stop nerfing the crap out of it would be a good place to start.

True. But I doubt Wrobels hatred of tanks will subside enough for that to happen.

Tonturri · December 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

I feel that - how to say, 'normal'? - tanking is far too passive. It's taunt this (and don't need to use taunt for another 14 sec), block that or hold block, face boss this way, keep up this and that buff. The most fun I have in the role is when I put a DPS setup in heavy armor and try to do everything at once.

When that happens, I'm alive when the rest of my group is dead NOT because I had my block button taped down or because I have so much health I can't possibly die unless I have a screw up of monstrous proportions, but because I managed blocking, healing, dodging, and mitigation buffs well enough that I came out ahead, even in a DLC dungeon while running 23k health - I can even contribute meaningful DPS.

I played tanks for years before I DPS'ed, and I enjoyed DPSing so much more because it felt extremely active. If I sat there and did nothing, or merely pressed a button every so often at a lazy pace, I got trash results. When I did my best to be quick at my rotation, refresh everything at the right time while keeping up everything else, etc, it was fun and I felt like I was actually doing something.

Tanking is easy. It's always been having to deal with not only being expected to lead the group, but being expected to be bored for x length of time depending on how competent/incompetent they were, or having to deal with the bad attitude of another group member because for whatever reason I can't carry them - dude, I'm sorry, the way numbers in this game work mean I can't carry you. It just doesn't work. <---That is what has driven me away from tanking at times. The weird and (to me) seemingly nonsensical expectations of my group combined with how passive my role is. I wouldn't mind taking an extra 5-10min to kill a boss if my own role wasn't so boring.

A while ago - maybe this is still the case, I haven't kept terribly up to date - it was expected that tanks wear the Ebon armor set that gives health to your group. Just...a flat health bonus. That requires no effort on your part. That's godawful boring.

Meanwhile, healers get Spellpower Cure, which requires at least some action on their part to give/get the benefit of the 5 piece. I feel this serves as a good example.

If you want a more active set to run you can run Torug's and Alkosh. Try getting really really high up time on those 2 at the same time, not the easiest thing in the world and trust me you got to be active then. Tanking is as passive as you make it, I don't think its passive at all, but that is cause I don't make it passive, I do everything that I can do while I tank. That always gives me something to do, same thing goes for healers, something people have already said is as passive as you want to make it, I claim the same thing for tanks.

You might have missed the part where I mentioned I ran a 23k health tank and stuff like that. Second paragraph down.

ALL classes are 'as passive as you make them', and it's true that you can adjust that as like like - however, tanks are more limited in that regard than all the other roles. THAT is the issue. It's not that I 'just haven't done enough' to try and make tanking more active for me. I've done nearly everything I can but equip SPC (don't have it, probably never will. Pain in the butt to acquire).

You also seem to have missed the part where I compared how passive/active a tank is to the other role(s) - third paragraph from the top.

paulsimonps wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

gr4yrang3r87 wrote: »

Tanking is encouraged when it doesn't intimidate the &@$% out of people. Trust me, if any of you guys played any other mmo's out there besides eso with half the toxicity, then you know what I'm talking about. I've only encountered one thing while tanking in this game and it was only someone telling me to position somewhere during a boss fight (which I ignored) but.. thanks anyway! Lol.

That's really the key for all new tank players is just to ignore the toxicity. If people are screaming down your throats via mics, just block em, laugh your @%& off at em, or leave he channel and keep going, that's really the trick right there. Never give up.

Tanks have it easy in this game, because it's easy. It is far more intense in other games.

Yet apparently finding people that knows how to tank is monstrously hard. And while dungeons often are really easy like you say, Trials are not and is where Tanking truly shines. Most of these comments seem to be aimed at dungeons from what I can tell but its very much so a different story in Trials.

Tbh I'm not sure how to change tanking without majorly screwing up how vet trials people do things. I'm aware of how...well, how meta-y the meta is.

Also keep in mind that it is not the level of difficulty I am complaining about. Trials are definitely more difficult than vet dungeons, etc, but this is not about difficulty.

Something can be easy and fun or hard and fun...but also easy and boring, or hard and boring.

I want to make the above point clear before moving on to suggesting ways to change this, as it's - imo - a very important distinction to be made.

Runefang · December 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

gr4yrang3r87 wrote: »

Tanking is encouraged when it doesn't intimidate the &@$% out of people. Trust me, if any of you guys played any other mmo's out there besides eso with half the toxicity, then you know what I'm talking about. I've only encountered one thing while tanking in this game and it was only someone telling me to position somewhere during a boss fight (which I ignored) but.. thanks anyway! Lol.

That's really the key for all new tank players is just to ignore the toxicity. If people are screaming down your throats via mics, just block em, laugh your @%& off at em, or leave he channel and keep going, that's really the trick right there. Never give up.

Tanks have it easy in this game, because it's easy. It is far more intense in other games.

Yet apparently finding people that knows how to tank is monstrously hard. And while dungeons often are really easy like you say, Trials are not and is where Tanking truly shines. Most of these comments seem to be aimed at dungeons from what I can tell but its very much so a different story in Trials.

That's a massive flaw, content difficulty and design should train up players to progress. I agree trial tanking is very different, much harder. But why tank when you're only needed for a small amount of content?

gr4yrang3r87 wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Tanks have it easy in this game, because it's easy. It is far more intense in other games.

Says who? You speak for all tanks in the universe? Please.. it might be more intense in other games but it's the same job. Troll elsewhere.

Sorry to have triggered you so badly. But dpsing is the hardest job in this game, then tanking and then healing is easiest.

Perhaps you should stop trolling yourself.

gr4yrang3r87 · December 2017

Runefang wrote: »

Sorry to have triggered you so badly. But dpsing is the hardest job in this game, then tanking and then healing is easiest.

Perhaps you should stop trolling yourself.

Haha, you sir are a grade A troll. Keep the popcorn coming, I'm amused. By the way, are you 12?

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

Runefang wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

gr4yrang3r87 wrote: »

Tanking is encouraged when it doesn't intimidate the &@$% out of people. Trust me, if any of you guys played any other mmo's out there besides eso with half the toxicity, then you know what I'm talking about. I've only encountered one thing while tanking in this game and it was only someone telling me to position somewhere during a boss fight (which I ignored) but.. thanks anyway! Lol.

That's really the key for all new tank players is just to ignore the toxicity. If people are screaming down your throats via mics, just block em, laugh your @%& off at em, or leave he channel and keep going, that's really the trick right there. Never give up.

Tanks have it easy in this game, because it's easy. It is far more intense in other games.

Yet apparently finding people that knows how to tank is monstrously hard. And while dungeons often are really easy like you say, Trials are not and is where Tanking truly shines. Most of these comments seem to be aimed at dungeons from what I can tell but its very much so a different story in Trials.

That's a massive flaw, content difficulty and design should train up players to progress. I agree trial tanking is very different, much harder. But why tank when you're only needed for a small amount of content?

gr4yrang3r87 wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Tanks have it easy in this game, because it's easy. It is far more intense in other games.

Says who? You speak for all tanks in the universe? Please.. it might be more intense in other games but it's the same job. Troll elsewhere.

Sorry to have triggered you so badly. But dpsing is the hardest job in this game, then tanking and then healing is easiest.

Perhaps you should stop trolling yourself.

YES. THIS.

I have been saying for ages that this game does not teach you how to play, and the army of defenders say 'should it?' it should. Thank god someone else see's/

Also: DPS is by far the hardest job. Because of how successfull DPS builds function. People who refuse this obviously dont play at a high level or play around people who do. I'll never understand why people say it isn't.

gr4yrang3r87 · December 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

YES. THIS.

I have been saying for ages that this game does not teach you how to play, and the army of defenders say 'should it?' it should. Thank god someone else see's/

Also: DPS is by far the hardest job. Because of how successfull DPS builds function. People who refuse this obviously dont play at a high level or play around people who do. I'll never understand why people say it isn't.

LMAO, this has to be the same guy with two accounts. Man, this just gets better and better..

Maura_Neysa · December 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

The main problem is that just questing as a tank is basically impossible chore. So people make dps quest and skyshard hunt and then turn a character into a tank when they need them. So for the most part everyone has a DPS until they reach full build.

I main a Warden tank, to quest I just wear Necro and War Maiden. Gets me to 30k magic and 18k heath and like 2k spell damage. Switch to Ebon and Alkosh and I have 35k health (37k with warden minor toughness) and 12k magic. I always leave my CP set to tank. Useful since I tend to block rather than try to avoid attacks.

To aswner the OP
Maybe I'm not the best voice, but please for the love of... don't encourge more bad tanks. I think the problem is just that it takes a different kind of person. I mean I've sat around trying to solo Yokeda Kai after a failed HRC run, for no other reason than I was having fun. Two DPS dead just shooting the breeze while I tanked away.

Maura_Neysa · December 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Simplest way to encourage Tanking would be a reliable, effective AOE Aggro-grabber.

That tanking in this game relies on a single target, short duration, low aggro attack shows that the DEVs have no real understanding of how an MMORPG is supposed to work.

Zenimax have long clung to the mantra of doing things differently just for the sake of being different, problem is "being different" is only ever successful if "being different" works at least as well as that which you are trying to be different from.

Zenimax's problem is that in a lot of cases "being different" in ESO simply doesn't work as well established alternatives.

Zenimax's saving grace is that when they do get "being different" right it is usually a stellar success.

All The Best

For the love of.... No No AOE aggro Tanking in this game is better than any other mmo I've played. AOE agro is for lazy, no talent tanking.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

gr4yrang3r87 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

YES. THIS.

I have been saying for ages that this game does not teach you how to play, and the army of defenders say 'should it?' it should. Thank god someone else see's/

Also: DPS is by far the hardest job. Because of how successfull DPS builds function. People who refuse this obviously dont play at a high level or play around people who do. I'll never understand why people say it isn't.

LMAO, this has to be the same guy with two accounts. Man, this just gets better and better..

...because this is the conclusion logical people come to.

I've been here far before that guy. But no, it's not possible two people entirely seperate from each other came to a conclusion, no, that's impossible. Paranoid nutter.

Maura_Neysa · December 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

no, we really could use AoE taunts. I'm getting really really tired of the whole "stop being lazy" crap that's being thrown around. this is a game. game should be fun. and the truth is - tanking in this game is rarely fun. you are either desperately trying to gather the mobs into a tight group for dps to AoE, which they rarely actualy let you do. or you are tanking the boss on almost auto pilot, because unless someone taunts off you, you are pretty much never losing aggro. so.. you might block every once in a while, or interrupt, but mostly you just stand there... refreshing taunt and shields.

not much that i can think of that would fix the boss thing, but just removing a lot of the frustration that comes from trying to control adds against impatient dps IMO would do wonders.

well that and soloing as a tank is just... painful. sure you don't die. but everything else takes forever to die. level as a dps, you say. yeah, sure. that means i now have to gather twice as many skill points (or respec, which is expensive) and i can still forget about actualy playing dps unless I'm also willing to shell out for cp respecs. you can also just go for hybrid cp distribution, but then it becomes a neither fish, nor fowl situation. and at least on pc, I have addons to help me quickly swap gear and skill sets. consoles? have to do it manualy. which is tedious. tedious generally = no fun.

You have a rather large knowledge gap in what tanking is about. The only "boss" thats the way you describe are World Boss and a select few low level dungeons. Even CoH isn't that plain.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · December 2017

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

For the love of.... No No AOE aggro Tanking in this game is better than any other mmo I've played. AOE agro is for lazy, no talent tanking.

An AoE Aggro-Grab or DoT (akin to Consecrate)would also make Solo Tank Leveling more enjoyable, leading to more tanks at end-game.

An AoE DoT/Aggro skill for an initial aggro-grab, and to herd trash packs makes perfect sense in a game with the combat style of ESO. Given how many DPS skills have targeted effect zones, had the skills in the game evolved organically Tanks would already have an AoE aggro skill.

All The Best

Maura_Neysa · December 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Its not just different for the sake of being different, its a unique style of tanking that many of the people playing tanks actually prefer, its far more engaging. As well, like code said, the reason you don't see a lot of tanks in PuGs is not cause there is a lack of tanks, there is a lack of tanks willing to subject themselves to the very real possibility of bad DPS pugs that they can't carry.

Clearly not enough people enjoy this type of tanking, otherwise there wouldn't be constant complaints about too few tanks, and ideas on how to fix that.

And as always, when tanking fails, blame the DPS eh?

How original.

All The Best

"When tanking fails"........ There are dungeons with DPS limits, aka, have this much DPS or you will fail, so blaming DPS is a very real thing when it comes to Pick up groups, I never PuG veteran dungeons unless its a really easy dungeon and its off hours. I know very few tanks that would ever subject themselves to the chance of getting bad DPS's. Imagine not being able to defeat last boss of Direfrost Keep cause Damage is so low it can't out DPS her heals? I've been in those scenarios, and I end up leaving cause even if I tell them to break free faster nothing I can do then and there will fix their horrible Damage numbers.

So it has nothing to do with too few people enjoying this style of tanking and all to do with the fact that those that tank rarely pug. There will always be more Damage dealers than Tanks and Healers, cause people like to show of their big D Deeps and high numbers but its also the fact that PvE content require more of them, and Tanks are almost by default expected to know everything and never fail mechanics. Everyone expects the tank to be the best tank there is, that pressure turns many people off tanking and healing. Dying or having low DPS in a group of 4 or 12 is not looked down upon as much as being a crappy healer or a tank that needs a lot of support while first starting out.

Do you really think that a AoE Taunt would fix that? Cause I really don't think so, as well that topic has been discussed to death already and not what this thread is about. Giving more incentives for Tanks is a tricky businesses, what can you give them that they would want? Titles? Dyes? Cause loot we already got, same with EXP and Gold.

There are achievements currently relating to Blocking Damage, Taking Damage and Healing Damage in Dungeons and Trials. Expanding on such things could very well give more people and incentive do perform more roles they don't normally do, like Tanking or Healing. Achievements, Titles and Dyes are things that incentivizes A LOT of people, that and motifs and costumes.

Ooo... a tank only skin? I'd love that, but then I'm a ready a tank.
I do enjoy PuG ing. Dragging the Pee wee League through a dungeon is about the only thing that makes the easy dungeons worth doing.

Maura_Neysa · December 2017

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

I think it goes more to personality and playstyle than anything else. The most fun I've had in eso is tanking. It is more fun with friends than random people but it is still fun to me when group finder works. Sometimes those random people become friends.

I'll admit I'm not the best tank but I'm learning. A need for an aoe taunt probably depends on your build. I don't have enough stamina to use inner beast on a room full of trash mobs, and if I tried, I would not have stamina for interrupts, break free or even much blocking. If I try to use pierce armor on everything, I am running all over the place to keep aggro on ranged mobs. Neither situation is good for the group.

When it comes to pugs there are two things that drive me crazy as a tank. Pet sorc clanfears often re aggro the enemy I'm tanking and eventually the target will be immune to taunting. High CP, high damage deeps often run ahead without giving time for resource regen which can make tanking bosses difficult.

Still, there are only four dungeons I have been in as a tank that I did not complete. RoM, I got knocked through a wall. Wgt, was a bad group with no communication. WS was due to eternal load screen when relogging after loading into a different instance from my group (wtf). And EH1 was a completely empty dungeon for the whole group but we all still had to wait 10 minutes to queue again.

Agro immunity only happens when TWO different people taunt 3 times in 15 seconds. Clanfears don't have a taunt and you alone eait cause immunity, no matter how many times you taunt.

Elusiin · December 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Simplest way to encourage Tanking would be a reliable, effective AOE Aggro-grabber.

That tanking in this game relies on a single target, short duration, low aggro attack shows that the DEVs have no real understanding of how an MMORPG is supposed to work.

Zenimax have long clung to the mantra of doing things differently just for the sake of being different, problem is "being different" is only ever successful if "being different" works at least as well as that which you are trying to be different from.

Zenimax's problem is that in a lot of cases "being different" in ESO simply doesn't work as well established alternatives.

Zenimax's saving grace is that when they do get "being different" right it is usually a stellar success.

All The Best

No sir, you have no understanding how tanking in this game works. Stop asking for AoE taunts, its not needed, its lazy tanking and thank god the devs agree. Its not just different for the sake of being different, its a unique style of tanking that many of the people playing tanks actually prefer, its far more engaging. As well, like code said, the reason you don't see a lot of tanks in PuGs is not cause there is a lack of tanks, there is a lack of tanks willing to subject themselves to the very real possibility of bad DPS pugs that they can't carry.

HAVE YOU TRIED TANKING FOR VET BLOODROOT FORGE? Alright, then you don't understand the trouble of being a tank in new dungeons. Seriously, it's not being lazy, it's out of necessity. Having to plug volcano holes, micromanage mobs with single target taunt, WHILE A BOSS IS BLOCKING VIEW, seeing through all the bright colors flying across the map, and remembering to run off to the side during the boss explosion so you're not 1 short, in addition to managing resources... Seriously tanks need quality of life improvements, only the most skilled players can successfully tank in newer/more updated vet dungeons. Look at dungeon queues, always in need of a tank because they're not easy to play both in leveling and in dungeons. Really tired of this argument.

Maura_Neysa · December 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

For the love of.... No No AOE aggro Tanking in this game is better than any other mmo I've played. AOE agro is for lazy, no talent tanking.

An AoE Aggro-Grab or DoT (akin to Consecrate)would also make Solo Tank Leveling more enjoyable, leading to more tanks at end-game.

An AoE DoT/Aggro skill for an initial aggro-grab, and to herd trash packs makes perfect sense in a game with the combat style of ESO. Given how many DPS skills have targeted effect zones, had the skills in the game evolved organically Tanks would already have an AoE aggro skill.

All The Best

Solo Tank leveling- change gear, thats it. Necro and War Maiden for me.
Initial aggro-grab- already here. I use Blockade of Frost, Templars-Ritual of Retrabution, NB-Sap Essence, DK- Volatile Armor. (or chains and talons)

If someone can't find a way to hold aggro without taunting, they're never going to wrap their mind around the Boss mechanics

VaranisArano · December 2017

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

For the love of.... No No AOE aggro Tanking in this game is better than any other mmo I've played. AOE agro is for lazy, no talent tanking.

An AoE Aggro-Grab or DoT (akin to Consecrate)would also make Solo Tank Leveling more enjoyable, leading to more tanks at end-game.

An AoE DoT/Aggro skill for an initial aggro-grab, and to herd trash packs makes perfect sense in a game with the combat style of ESO. Given how many DPS skills have targeted effect zones, had the skills in the game evolved organically Tanks would already have an AoE aggro skill.

All The Best

Solo Tank leveling- change gear, thats it. Necro and War Maiden for me.
Initial aggro-grab- already here. I use Blockade of Frost, Templars-Ritual of Retrabution, NB-Sap Essence, DK- Volatile Armor. (or chains and talons)

If someone can't find a way to hold aggro without taunting, they're never going to wrap their mind around the Boss mechanics

To be entirely fair, the usual tanking technique of grabbing aggro on a trash mob by throwing an AoE on them only works if your healer and DPS don't decide that they need to be the first ones to hit every mob in the dungeon.

When a group is patient enough to let the tank pull and do crowd control, it works great. When group isn't patient, the tank is just mopping up the trash mob like everyone else and the group has no idea that they're actually making it harder on themselves.