Legend Tournament Series - Tournament tonight - Low CP Tournament tomorrow - Scarr streaming

NightbladeMechanics

Change of plans! We will host a small stamina-only tournament for fun late tomorrow evening. Tune in to Blobs' stream at twitch.tv/blobeso at 8pm EST to catch it!

Pm @Vovik in game for details or entry. He is organizing it in my absence.

Everyone, travel safely this holiday season, and I sincerely hope you all enjoy lots of quality time with friends and family. you all.

Speed_Kills

@NightbladeMechanics no troll king pretty please?

VirtualElizabeth

Remind me why Troll King is hated now? LOL

Speed_Kills

@VirtualElizabeth its a carry set, turns 30s fights into 10 minute borefests

NightbladeMechanics

Tournament tomorrow! Check the OP for details!

HowlKimchi

Oohh it seems like a lot more stamina classes won this time around. How were the experimental rules this week?

NightbladeMechanics

Man, sorc is hardcore struggling in duels...and those mDK matchups were pretty annoying to watch. Stalemates went in favor of the players who came best prepared for their matchups and played the fights better in the clutch moments. The finer mechanical details will be rewarded.

We counted over 1000 spectators this weekend between those present on location and @Velukodi , @Scarr , and @Blobsky 's streams. I was blown away. Thanks to everyone who tuned in to support us!

HaruyukiHana wrote: »

Oohh it seems like a lot more stamina classes won this time around. How were the experimental rules this week?

We're liking them. None of our stalemates involved Troll King, which is the only rule we're still unsure about.

However, I don't think anyone was using TK this weekend... That rule will remain under scrutiny going forward.

Subversus

Great duels from what I've seen on blobs' YouTube channel! I absolutely loved how there were seemingly no cheese duel builds, which was nice.

Only thing I really didn't like is how you favored the lvl 40 magdk in his duel against that sorc, despite him crutching on wings the entire fight. It's not really "great gameplay", as it's been pointed out, to spam wings in a 1v1 scenario. The sorc literally had no chance in ever winning that fight imo, unless a true 1 shot happened. The moment the DK would break free of the stun from reach, wings would pop. The magDK obviously had no problem sustaining the wings either.

Publius_Scipio

Kodi’s Warden. I am lol’ing.

Happy new year Kenapkk

NightbladeMechanics

Subversus wrote: »

Great duels from what I've seen on blobs' YouTube channel! I absolutely loved how there were seemingly no cheese duel builds, which was nice.

Only thing I really didn't like is how you favored the lvl 40 magdk in his duel against that sorc, despite him crutching on wings the entire fight. It's not really "great gameplay", as it's been pointed out, to spam wings in a 1v1 scenario. The sorc literally had no chance in ever winning that fight imo, unless a true 1 shot happened. The moment the DK would break free of the stun from reach, wings would pop. The magDK obviously had no problem sustaining the wings either.

Yes, that was an unfortunately disadvantageous matchup for the sorc. However, I’m judging based on gameplay and decisions made, not just the list of skills on their bars.

The DK was not keeping wings up all the time. For the most part, he was reacting to Pelican casting Flame Reach or frag and caught some really clutch combos with them. The DK did not use snb ult or lightning blockade, as some people have complained. Neither player used defensive ults. He was using leap and doing a somewhat decent job of timing combos even though he didn’t kill Peli in that match. He was in control.

Meanwhile Peli entered a melee matchup without mines, a reflect matchup with a reflectable cc, a block matchup without rune prison, a higher health matchup without his execute, and complained afterward that ele drain is op. He threw many frags into wings and cced himself with Flame Reach constantly, and simply couldn’t pressure the fight. He didnt come prepared for the matchup, which was a big fault in my eyes.

Some players have complained that the sorc should have won because he used fewer “cheese” skills, but I consider that perspective short sighted. I have communicated numerous times to the guild that if they think a skill is cheesy or op, we need to discuss adding it to the rules ahead of time. Once the tournament starts, everything is fair game, and combatants are expected to use the tools available to their classes to kill their opponents.

TLDR I would fault a sorc for standing behind mines playing defensively all match and not pressuring his opponent, but not for using the skill as a defensive position when aggressed upon by a high damage melee class. Likewise, I’m not faulting an aggressive mDK for using wings so that he can pressure a projectile class more effectively, but I would surely fault a lower damage, less aggressive player. It’s the gameplay I’m watching, not some subjective judgment of cheese.

Oh, also note that I ruled in the other sorc’s favor when he stalemated against the other mDK, and then when Tuppy and Pelican rematched in their fight for 3rd and 4th places, Tuppy killed him pretty quickly. He had slotted Flames of Oblivion instead of Igneous to get a bit more burst. I think the results were pretty fair.

NightbladeMechanics

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Kodi’s Warden. I am lol’ing.

Happy new year Kenapkk

He deserves it.

Happy New Year, Pubs. ^_^

Subversus

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Great duels from what I've seen on blobs' YouTube channel! I absolutely loved how there were seemingly no cheese duel builds, which was nice.

Only thing I really didn't like is how you favored the lvl 40 magdk in his duel against that sorc, despite him crutching on wings the entire fight. It's not really "great gameplay", as it's been pointed out, to spam wings in a 1v1 scenario. The sorc literally had no chance in ever winning that fight imo, unless a true 1 shot happened. The moment the DK would break free of the stun from reach, wings would pop. The magDK obviously had no problem sustaining the wings either.

Oh, also note that I ruled in the other sorc’s favor when he stalemated against the other mDK, and then when Tuppy and Pelican rematched in their fight for 3rd and 4th places, Tuppy killed him pretty quickly. He had slotted Flames of Oblivion instead of Igneous to get a bit more burst. I think the results were pretty fair.

Yeah, I didn't watch the rest of the fights involving Tuppy and ranged builds; knowing my hatred towards wings (and magDKs dueling in general) I would just mess up my mood listening to praises on how good a gameplay wings spamming is.

I don't have anything against the final placements, Tuppy looks like a very strong player. It's just that one thing that triggered me, but it might've been personal bias more than anything else hahaha!

I was indeed surprised the sorc did not change his skills at all when fighting a melee build, especially since it was allowed.

Rainraven

Maybe matches in which no one is ever going to get a kill could be ended a bit sooner, and then immediately rematched with a Sudden Death ruleset? This is from a purely spectator viewpoint, and pretty selfish I know, but I felt like everybody involved needed to be put out of our misery during the second half of a couple of the fights this week.

NightbladeMechanics

Rainraven wrote: »

Maybe matches in which no one is ever going to get a kill could be ended a bit sooner, and then immediately rematched with a Sudden Death ruleset? This is from a purely spectator viewpoint, and pretty selfish I know, but I felt like everybody involved needed to be put out of our misery during the second half of a couple of the fights this week.

Yea those were obnoxious.. "Everyone, REMOVE THY ARMORS!"

Speed_Kills

^ this needs to happen and battle level needs to be banned.

Cinbri

Can anyone enlighten me why stamplar used bugged Empowering Sweep and didn't used Backlash?

NightbladeMechanics

Details are posted for this weekend's tournament!

Grimlok_S

Cinbri wrote: »

Can anyone enlighten me why stamplar used bugged Empowering Sweep and didn't used Backlash?

Not finding anything online.. how is Empowering Sweep bugged?

Firstmep

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Can anyone enlighten me why stamplar used bugged Empowering Sweep and didn't used Backlash?

Not finding anything online.. how is Empowering Sweep bugged?

He was using crescent Sweep which can hit pretty hard if you can land it.
Emphasis on the if.
It has a super short range, and can bug out on for example uneven terrain. Animation cancelling it can cause to outright not fire.
Ive tried a similar build in the past with moderate sucess, i was able to hit 10-12 sweeps on heavy armor targets,and went as high as 18k on really paper targets.
On the templar in question he had repentance on his backbar in duels. No potl no trap no execute. He was trying to use reverb bash to lock down his opponents and land CS. As hard as the skill can hit with no follow up damage from for example potl, he cant really kill any stam build running troll king or a stamden.
I still like the concept and i hope he shows up for later tourneys with a more fleshed out version of his build.
Anything to help shake up the boring dw bleed meta most stamplars play.

GrigorijMalahevich

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Great duels from what I've seen on blobs' YouTube channel! I absolutely loved how there were seemingly no cheese duel builds, which was nice.

Only thing I really didn't like is how you favored the lvl 40 magdk in his duel against that sorc, despite him crutching on wings the entire fight. It's not really "great gameplay", as it's been pointed out, to spam wings in a 1v1 scenario. The sorc literally had no chance in ever winning that fight imo, unless a true 1 shot happened. The moment the DK would break free of the stun from reach, wings would pop. The magDK obviously had no problem sustaining the wings either.

Yes, that was an unfortunately disadvantageous matchup for the sorc. However, I’m judging based on gameplay and decisions made, not just the list of skills on their bars.

The DK was not keeping wings up all the time. For the most part, he was reacting to Pelican casting Flame Reach or frag and caught some really clutch combos with them. The DK did not use snb ult or lightning blockade, as some people have complained. Neither player used defensive ults. He was using leap and doing a somewhat decent job of timing combos even though he didn’t kill Peli in that match. He was in control.

Meanwhile Peli entered a melee matchup without mines, a reflect matchup with a reflectable cc, a block matchup without rune prison, a higher health matchup without his execute, and complained afterward that ele drain is op. He threw many frags into wings and cced himself with Flame Reach constantly, and simply couldn’t pressure the fight. He didnt come prepared for the matchup, which was a big fault in my eyes.

Some players have complained that the sorc should have won because he used fewer “cheese” skills, but I consider that perspective short sighted. I have communicated numerous times to the guild that if they think a skill is cheesy or op, we need to discuss adding it to the rules ahead of time. Once the tournament starts, everything is fair game, and combatants are expected to use the tools available to their classes to kill their opponents.

TLDR I would fault a sorc for standing behind mines playing defensively all match and not pressuring his opponent, but not for using the skill as a defensive position when aggressed upon by a high damage melee class. Likewise, I’m not faulting an aggressive mDK for using wings so that he can pressure a projectile class more effectively, but I would surely fault a lower damage, less aggressive player. It’s the gameplay I’m watching, not some subjective judgment of cheese.

Oh, also note that I ruled in the other sorc’s favor when he stalemated against the other mDK, and then when Tuppy and Pelican rematched in their fight for 3rd and 4th places, Tuppy killed him pretty quickly. He had slotted Flames of Oblivion instead of Igneous to get a bit more burst. I think the results were pretty fair.

Big news... I totally disagree on that Peli decision. On PC EU wings are considered bad manner in duels, same as mines... Saying that mDK used wings to keep pressure as an offensive - lol...
Let me check the huge list of what projectile sorc can do against wings...
pets? They are banned.
Duroks? - it is banned.
Rune prison? - nobody with Master staff is going to slot it...
Defensive rune? - not a lot of people slot it, but probably the only “allowed” counter

NightbladeMechanics

Valera Progib wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Great duels from what I've seen on blobs' YouTube channel! I absolutely loved how there were seemingly no cheese duel builds, which was nice.

Only thing I really didn't like is how you favored the lvl 40 magdk in his duel against that sorc, despite him crutching on wings the entire fight. It's not really "great gameplay", as it's been pointed out, to spam wings in a 1v1 scenario. The sorc literally had no chance in ever winning that fight imo, unless a true 1 shot happened. The moment the DK would break free of the stun from reach, wings would pop. The magDK obviously had no problem sustaining the wings either.

Yes, that was an unfortunately disadvantageous matchup for the sorc. However, I’m judging based on gameplay and decisions made, not just the list of skills on their bars.

The DK was not keeping wings up all the time. For the most part, he was reacting to Pelican casting Flame Reach or frag and caught some really clutch combos with them. The DK did not use snb ult or lightning blockade, as some people have complained. Neither player used defensive ults. He was using leap and doing a somewhat decent job of timing combos even though he didn’t kill Peli in that match. He was in control.

Meanwhile Peli entered a melee matchup without mines, a reflect matchup with a reflectable cc, a block matchup without rune prison, a higher health matchup without his execute, and complained afterward that ele drain is op. He threw many frags into wings and cced himself with Flame Reach constantly, and simply couldn’t pressure the fight. He didnt come prepared for the matchup, which was a big fault in my eyes.

Some players have complained that the sorc should have won because he used fewer “cheese” skills, but I consider that perspective short sighted. I have communicated numerous times to the guild that if they think a skill is cheesy or op, we need to discuss adding it to the rules ahead of time. Once the tournament starts, everything is fair game, and combatants are expected to use the tools available to their classes to kill their opponents.

TLDR I would fault a sorc for standing behind mines playing defensively all match and not pressuring his opponent, but not for using the skill as a defensive position when aggressed upon by a high damage melee class. Likewise, I’m not faulting an aggressive mDK for using wings so that he can pressure a projectile class more effectively, but I would surely fault a lower damage, less aggressive player. It’s the gameplay I’m watching, not some subjective judgment of cheese.

Oh, also note that I ruled in the other sorc’s favor when he stalemated against the other mDK, and then when Tuppy and Pelican rematched in their fight for 3rd and 4th places, Tuppy killed him pretty quickly. He had slotted Flames of Oblivion instead of Igneous to get a bit more burst. I think the results were pretty fair.

Big news... I totally disagree on that Peli decision. On PC EU wings are considered bad manner in duels, same as mines... Saying that mDK used wings to keep pressure as an offensive - lol...
Let me check the huge list of what projectile sorc can do against wings...
pets? They are banned.
Duroks? - it is banned.
Rune prison? - nobody with Master staff is going to slot it...
Defensive rune? - not a lot of people slot it, but probably the only “allowed” counter

This kind of rigid yet unwritten dueling etiquette is part of why your server’s dueling community is suffering right now. We decide as a guild on written and enforced rules before our tournaments every single week. It would have been unprofessional for me to have ruled outside of those rules based on some subjective judgment of cheese. We are over 400 active members now. If my members think ele drain, wings, mines, mark, etc are worth banning, they’ll raise it for discussion and take a vote. So far, they haven’t even tried.

Running a master staff is a build decision. You’ll gain advantages into many matchups with it, but holding stubbornly to flame clench for your staff when confronted with a reflect matchup is foolish. Sorc is a poor dueling class and certainly struggles into mDK, but adaptation is a required skill in large, competitive tournaments. Be prepared for every eventuality, or lose. Pelican entered that match already accepting his loss and didn't even give winning his best shot.

I don’t see why you consider defensive rune a possibility but rule out rune prison outright, seeing as they are the same ability.

Wings can definitely be used to cover your defense while you go offensive. It's like a sorc shielding before performing a combo or a stamina class casting vigor. Projectile flame clench builds are just hard countered by them.

And lastly, are you seriously implying that pets and Durok’s on a sorc are less cheese than mines and wings? See, this is that subjective etiquette again. It has no place in competitive environments. Discuss and agree on a set of rules ahead of time, and then when the big day comes, use all the tools left available outside of the rules to win your matches. That’s it.

~~~

Regardless of how we all feel about the rules and the decision and what's "cheese," Tuppy maintained control the entire fight, landed more near-kills, the tournaments are double elimination to allow for second chances, and Tuppy killed Pelican rather quickly in their later rematch.

olsborg

Dueling is its own separate pvp. I dare say itemization takes a bigger precedence in dueling then it does in open world, depends tho I guess. But the day pvp became more about itemz and gear then skill and hand-to-button timing...was sad.

These days you get killed by gear moreso then you do skills.

NightbladeMechanics

olsborg wrote: »

Dueling is its own separate pvp. I dare say itemization takes a bigger precedence in dueling then it does in open world, depends tho I guess. But the day pvp became more about itemz and gear then skill and hand-to-button timing...was sad.

These days you get killed by gear moreso then you do skills.

This was more true between Dark Brotherhood (the patch of proc set and heavy armor buffs in spring 2016) and Morrowind (the big sustain, heavy armor, and proc nerfs in spring 2017). PvP balance went way downhill during that period, but in our opinion, it has been improving substantially patch to patch this past year.

We're really enjoying the game right now, with just a few exceptions ending up in our rules.

Autumnhart

Good fights this week, too bad about the disconnects. The Animosity group event stole the show.

Asmael

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Dueling is its own separate pvp. I dare say itemization takes a bigger precedence in dueling then it does in open world, depends tho I guess. But the day pvp became more about itemz and gear then skill and hand-to-button timing...was sad.

These days you get killed by gear moreso then you do skills.

This was more true between Dark Brotherhood (the patch of proc set and heavy armor buffs in spring 2016) and Morrowind (the big sustain, heavy armor, and proc nerfs in spring 2017). PvP balance went way downhill during that period, but in our opinion, it has been improving substantially patch to patch this past year.

We're really enjoying the game right now, with just a few exceptions ending up in our rules.

No worries, seems Dragon Bones is bringing proc sets in full force

Lexxypwns

Good call on the lingering pots, they’re ridiculously OP and imo stronger than immovable pots in most situations(fights with meteor-unblockable CC being the exception)

Takes-No-Prisoner

Autumnhart wrote: »

Good fights this week, too bad about the disconnects. The Animosity group event stole the show.

It's disheartening to see fighters get stuck in lag spikes. Watched a duel at Chalman mine on PS4 NA, and they both backed out when the stamWarden saw his melee MagNB opponent was having some serious lag spikes.

Their fight was pretty awesome to see none the less.

NightbladeMechanics

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Good call on the lingering pots, they’re ridiculously OP and imo stronger than immovable pots in most situations(fights with meteor-unblockable CC being the exception)

I honestly haven't used them since the nerf in Homestead patch... Are they really that strong? I only used them when tanking, and then after that nerf, I shelved tanking and have been using spell powers ever since. I don't think I've even consumed a potion on my mageblade besides trash magicka pots and spell powers since then... hmmm

NightbladeMechanics

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Autumnhart wrote: »

Good fights this week, too bad about the disconnects. The Animosity group event stole the show.

It's disheartening to see fighters get stuck in lag spikes. Watched a duel at Chalman mine on PS4 NA, and they both backed out when the stamWarden saw his melee MagNB opponent was having some serious lag spikes.

Their fight was pretty awesome to see none the less.

I love that matchup. Sounds like they were good guys too, to back out when lag kicks in.

Lexxypwns

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Good call on the lingering pots, they’re ridiculously OP and imo stronger than immovable pots in most situations(fights with meteor-unblockable CC being the exception)

I honestly haven't used them since the nerf in Homestead patch... Are they really that strong? I only used them when tanking, and then after that nerf, I shelved tanking and have been using spell powers ever since. I don't think I've even consumed a potion on my mageblade besides trash magicka pots and spell powers since then... hmmm

It’s twice as much healing as Forward momentum. It’s twice as strong as the base troll king tooltip. I try to build most setups around being able to run lingering pots(either speed or vitality) because they’re useful on builds that shieldstack(counter for shieldbreaker) and have big burst heals(keeps offensive windows open longer) but on builds stacking HoTs it’s a 100% uptime and another layered HoT that’s really impactful.

The vitality pots in particular give HoT builds a 15 second window where they’re virtually impossible to kill.