Legend Tournament Series - Tournament tonight - Low CP Tournament tomorrow - Scarr streaming

Cinbri

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

This tournament looked so fun that it made me want to participate in it.
Can compare it to last eu tournament with 90% tanks and trolls searching for attention..
Btw, why no start with zero ult?
P.S.: no-CP duels ftw.

CP has been more balanced than non-CP since Morrowind. No reason to cling to non-CP anymore. Time to move on.

We just aren't bothered by ults as much, I guess. It's come up a couple times in rules discussions, but the guild just kind of shrugs and doesn't care. If someone dies to a meteor combo 10 seconds in with full resources, then they're bad. lol

The person who drops a meteor 10 seconds in is also bad.

Legend is developing a unique culture. We don't care who wins fights. Our egos aren't tied to wins and losses and tournaments. Our duel gatherings are full of RP and trolling and laughs, some people come in troll builds, and everyone's just hanging out and chilling. It's pretty amazing to watch. I think this results in more people coming to duels and tournaments in open world builds instead of tryhard ***.

Yes, my Durok's build was originally an open world build, and I've played it in open world plenty.

Or maybe the NA dueling scene is just in a new infancy after being largely dead from Dark Brotherhood through now, and people just haven't put their tryhard cheese pants on yet. I'll do my best to see that it doesn't come to that, though.

Maybe NA just have much less egomaniacs. Reminds me that mass exploiting of AP flipping was only on eu.

Disagree on CP - with Morrowind it became even more unbalanced, just by 2 examples:
1. new Warlord - make magicka build forget about stamina sustain especially in 1v1, and for that reason such sets as Way of the Arena completely extinct from build, despite it was one of the most popular set before CP. Adding sustain sets in addition to CP, like Amberplasm, making your stamina management fine even with 9k stamina while simultaneously allow going more offensive coz mana regen.
2. Heals and debuffs - heals without CP are balanced (even healbots in reactive armor can be killed 1v1), heals buffed by CP overpowered; major defile without CP is doing its job, major defile with Befoul is overpowered and counter even cp heals (but in combination with ShadowGuard or against shieldstackers with Bastion still allow to survive). As you said, it like:

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

It's like a tilted game of rock paper scissors where rock doesn't beat scissors.

On no-CP those unbalanced don't exist in first place.

Derra

Cinbri wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

It's like a tilted game of rock paper scissors where rock doesn't beat scissors.

On no-CP those unbalanced don't exist in first place.

Which is controversial and highly subjective based on the classes you play and what your opponent plays. Atleast when an opponent outcheeses you in CP you can mostly force a draw - whether you consider that cheesy on it´s own is again subjective.

Never had the thought that noCP was more balanced. It just has different issues that affect other classes more.

Cinbri

Derra wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

It's like a tilted game of rock paper scissors where rock doesn't beat scissors.

On no-CP those unbalanced don't exist in first place.

Never had the thought that noCP was more balanced. It just has different issues that affect other classes more.

It how it was since vanilla eso. But does adding on top of existed problems a system with tons of modifiers majority of which differently affect each class and then rebalance classes judging on how they perform with new system, which byitself not even stale but getting rebalances itself will make situation better? Doubtful.
But apparently no cp duels on na as unpopular as on eu.

Derra

Cinbri wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

It's like a tilted game of rock paper scissors where rock doesn't beat scissors.

On no-CP those unbalanced don't exist in first place.

Never had the thought that noCP was more balanced. It just has different issues that affect other classes more.

It how it was since vanilla eso. But does adding on top of existed problems a system with tons of modifiers majority of which differently affect each class will make situation better? Doubtful.

We can only argue about the status quo though - not about a hypothetical what if they never added cp. The games been developed and balanced for CP for almost three years now.
Did CP make the game stricly worse? Doubtful aswell.

Also i personally think CP made the game better and more interesting compared to 1.5.
That´s why i say calling x or y more unbalanced is highly subjective. I personally 100% oppose your opinion on the nonCP/CP situation.

ManDraKE

Saw the stream of the tournament the other day, it was really good. I was expecting a lot of never-ending fights and absurd tanks setups but with the exception of one fight, the rest went really well. One thing i would like to see change is the poison rule, i understand the need of nerfing some poisons, like the resource cost and the inmovable posions, but nerfing all of them kills a lot of build variety, i for example use the double dot poisons to proc skoria on builds/classes that don't have many dots.

Kena your build is scary af, really strong, gj.

p.d: nerf minor maim lol

NightbladeMechanics

Cinbri wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

This tournament looked so fun that it made me want to participate in it.
Can compare it to last eu tournament with 90% tanks and trolls searching for attention..
Btw, why no start with zero ult?
P.S.: no-CP duels ftw.

CP has been more balanced than non-CP since Morrowind. No reason to cling to non-CP anymore. Time to move on.

We just aren't bothered by ults as much, I guess. It's come up a couple times in rules discussions, but the guild just kind of shrugs and doesn't care. If someone dies to a meteor combo 10 seconds in with full resources, then they're bad. lol

The person who drops a meteor 10 seconds in is also bad.

Legend is developing a unique culture. We don't care who wins fights. Our egos aren't tied to wins and losses and tournaments. Our duel gatherings are full of RP and trolling and laughs, some people come in troll builds, and everyone's just hanging out and chilling. It's pretty amazing to watch. I think this results in more people coming to duels and tournaments in open world builds instead of tryhard ***.

Yes, my Durok's build was originally an open world build, and I've played it in open world plenty.

Or maybe the NA dueling scene is just in a new infancy after being largely dead from Dark Brotherhood through now, and people just haven't put their tryhard cheese pants on yet. I'll do my best to see that it doesn't come to that, though.

Maybe NA just have much less egomaniacs. Reminds me that mass exploiting of AP flipping was only on eu.

Disagree on CP - with Morrowind it became even more unbalanced, just by 2 examples:
1. new Warlord - make magicka build forget about stamina sustain especially in 1v1, and for that reason such sets as Way of the Arena completely extinct from build, despite it was one of the most popular set before CP. Adding sustain sets in addition to CP, like Amberplasm, making your stamina management fine even with 9k stamina while simultaneously allow going more offensive coz mana regen.
2. Heals and debuffs - heals without CP are balanced (even healbots in reactive armor can be killed 1v1), heals buffed by CP overpowered; major defile without CP is doing its job, major defile with Befoul is overpowered and counter even cp heals (but in combination with ShadowGuard or against shieldstackers with Bastion still allow to survive). As you said, it like:

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

It's like a tilted game of rock paper scissors where rock doesn't beat scissors.

On no-CP those unbalanced don't exist in first place.

Investing in Warlord is difficult to do without giving up more valuable stars such as Befoul and Shadow Ward. I question any CP setup using too many points in Warlord to begin with. I don’t even notice a difference when playing without it...

Way of the Arena is a great stam sustain set. I have a buddy using it on a magplar healer right now, and he won’t take it off. Just don’t use Warlord with it. The two don’t stack due to a bug.

Your problem with Amber is an item set issue, not a CP issue. Amber is just as good in non CP as it is in CP.

I haven’t seen a permablock or healing build which I couldn’t kill 1v1 since before Morrowind...but I’m a Nightblade with fear. While block builds are definitely stronger in CP, Befoul does let us wreck their healing. They are not as strong as people complain they are.

The healing CP, Blessed and Quick Recovery, are inefficient stars worthy of zero points.

Blocking and heal debuffs are op in CP. Poisons, one shot stam builds, and siege are op, and magicka builds struggle disproportionately with stam sustain in non CP. Build diversity is also more restricted in non CP. Both have their issues. CP has fewer in my opinion.

Jaybe_Mawfaka

That moment when you've won your own tournament lmao

Cinbri

Since it thread not about cp vs no-cp I will stop derailing it.

Does anyone will stream next event and will it be another arena?

olsborg

In a 1v1 setting most if not all magicka versions of any class will have an advantage over stamina.

Its easier to heal or shield instantly on magicka, even if you are defiled. Most if not all (stamden is exception) stamina heals are HoT based and you need to be preemptive on healing/defence whereas magicka can be reactively healing/defending. This does not break the balance between magicka and stamina, it just means its easier.

WillhelmBlack

I play both CP and non CP. I'm with Cinbri. Non CP is way better balanced and way more fun.

Damage is the same because offensive CP's cancel out defensive CP's but what you don't get is the extreme healing, blocking, sustain, infinite shield stacking, free crit and passives. It opens up more options for build craft and makes you think about combat mechanics more.

I wouldn't take duelling in a CP environment seriously, at all. But I guess it's what people are used to and if they want boring long fights and prefer broken mechanics and recoveries over skill then yeah.

NightbladeMechanics

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I play both CP and non CP. I'm with Cinbri. Non CP is way better balanced and way more fun.

Damage is the same because offensive CP's cancel out defensive CP's but what you don't get is the extreme healing, blocking, sustain, infinite shield stacking, free crit and passives. It opens up more options for build craft and makes you think about combat mechanics more.

I wouldn't take duelling in a CP environment seriously, at all. But I guess it's what people are used to and if they want boring long fights and prefer broken mechanics and recoveries over skill then yeah.

We only had a couple boring long fights, but they involved magplars and mag sorcs.. I don’t see the “insane healing, blocking, sustain, or infinite shield stacking” that you mention happening in my day to day pvp, and build diversity is definitely greater in CP. I played both CP and non CP a ton until I quit playing in HotR. Non CP was way better pre-Morrowind, but then my opinion flipped after they nerfed CP and heavy armor in that patch.

Joy_Division

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I play both CP and non CP. I'm with Cinbri. Non CP is way better balanced and way more fun.

Damage is the same because offensive CP's cancel out defensive CP's but what you don't get is the extreme healing, blocking, sustain, infinite shield stacking, free crit and passives. It opens up more options for build craft and makes you think about combat mechanics more.

I wouldn't take duelling in a CP environment seriously, at all. But I guess it's what people are used to and if they want boring long fights and prefer broken mechanics and recoveries over skill then yeah.

Why can't people just accept that their preferences are just that, preferences, and not objective based fact.

Legend had a compelling tournament, the people who participated had fun, the people who watched were interested and had a good time, I don't see the why people who play on another server have to come into the thread, and lecture the organizers and participants that they are doing it wrong.

Lexxypwns

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

This tournament looked so fun that it made me want to participate in it.
Can compare it to last eu tournament with 90% tanks and trolls searching for attention..
Btw, why no start with zero ult?
P.S.: no-CP duels ftw.

CP has been more balanced than non-CP since Morrowind. No reason to cling to non-CP anymore. Time to move on.

We just aren't bothered by ults as much, I guess. It's come up a couple times in rules discussions, but the guild just kind of shrugs and doesn't care. If someone dies to a meteor combo 10 seconds in with full resources, then they're bad. lol

The person who drops a meteor 10 seconds in is also bad.

Legend is developing a unique culture. We don't care who wins fights. Our egos aren't tied to wins and losses and tournaments. Our duel gatherings are full of RP and trolling and laughs, some people come in troll builds, and everyone's just hanging out and chilling. It's pretty amazing to watch. I think this results in more people coming to duels and tournaments in open world builds instead of tryhard ***.

Yes, my Durok's build was originally an open world build, and I've played it in open world plenty.

Or maybe the NA dueling scene is just in a new infancy after being largely dead from Dark Brotherhood through now, and people just haven't put their tryhard cheese pants on yet. I'll do my best to see that it doesn't come to that, though.

Literally that’s the only appeal of a dueling guild. It’s easy to get duels, but getting people to understand it’s a game and a social gathering rather than some “get piped scrub” salt fest is important

VirtualElizabeth

I was in Legend last year when ICY was running it and had a blast. Need to make guild space though to join. @NightbladeMechanics Help me Sensei with my cute little Breton MagBlade...I want to love her, I really do! LOL

Adenoma

I think I'll be joining in. I need to farm up some gear, but it'll be fun to experiment with MagWarden in duels.

NightbladeMechanics

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I was in Legend last year when ICY was running it and had a blast. Need to make guild space though to join. @NightbladeMechanics Help me Sensei with my cute little Breton MagBlade...I want to love her, I really do! LOL

We'll be glad to have you back!

Adenoma wrote: »

I think I'll be joining in. I need to farm up some gear, but it'll be fun to experiment with MagWarden in duels.

You should! All are welcome.

Synozeer

ManDraKE wrote: »

Saw the stream of the tournament the other day, it was really good. I was expecting a lot of never-ending fights and absurd tanks setups but with the exception of one fight, the rest went really well. One thing i would like to see change is the poison rule, i understand the need of nerfing some poisons, like the resource cost and the inmovable posions, but nerfing all of them kills a lot of build variety, i for example use the double dot poisons to proc skoria on builds/classes that don't have many dots.

Kena your build is scary af, really strong, gj.

p.d: nerf minor maim lol

I tested previously and weapon poisons do not proc Skoria. But I always suggest testing on your own to confirm since nothing on the forums can be taken for gospel

ManDraKE

Synozeer wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Saw the stream of the tournament the other day, it was really good. I was expecting a lot of never-ending fights and absurd tanks setups but with the exception of one fight, the rest went really well. One thing i would like to see change is the poison rule, i understand the need of nerfing some poisons, like the resource cost and the inmovable posions, but nerfing all of them kills a lot of build variety, i for example use the double dot poisons to proc skoria on builds/classes that don't have many dots.

Kena your build is scary af, really strong, gj.

p.d: nerf minor maim lol

I tested previously and weapon poisons do not proc Skoria. But I always suggest testing on your own to confirm since nothing on the forums can be taken for gospel

just to be sure, went back and tested it agaisnt some NPCs, it does. It procs not only from the posion dots, but also from the posioned status that can be proc by any poison dmg

Alfie2072

banning befouled enchant would be a mistake
i mean i have no problem with it, but are you going to pay for a new glyph for me? then pay for another glyph to put befouled after the tournament? most people wont waste their gold doing that aka probably not compete

montiferus

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I wouldn't take duelling in a CP environment seriously, at all.

I dont take you seriously at all.

Lexxypwns

montiferus wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I wouldn't take duelling in a CP environment seriously, at all.

I dont take you seriously at all.

I think not taking eso too seriously is pretty important, it’s not a competitive environment in the traditional sense. CP just changes up the dueling metas.

Blobsky

Unfortunately EU is 90% custom duel builds so this would be insanely boring for us... Rule of thumb: if they are comfortably over 30k health or with multiple ground aoes, expect atleast a 60% heal debuff. Minor defile poison major defile skills (or durok) and CP stacked in defile = rip non shield stackers.

Back pre 1.5 it was very much.a test of player skill... I cant think of any custom builds but maybe im wrong. These days people literally sustain through ele drain or only heavy weave as stam, in a build vs build fight. Of course skill somewhat matters but build is just so different to the open worpd builds many of us play.

Gl in future tournaments, hopefully the custom meta wont hit na too hard

OdinForge

Blobsky wrote: »

Unfortunately EU is 90% custom duel builds so this would be insanely boring for us... Rule of thumb: if they are comfortably over 30k health or with multiple ground aoes, expect atleast a 60% heal debuff. Minor defile poison major defile skills (or durok) and CP stacked in defile = rip non shield stackers.

Back pre 1.5 it was very much.a test of player skill... I cant think of any custom builds but maybe im wrong. These days people literally sustain through ele drain or only heavy weave as stam, in a build vs build fight. Of course skill somewhat matters but build is just so different to the open worpd builds many of us play.

Gl in future tournaments, hopefully the custom meta wont hit na too hard

1.5 was boring in the sense that it didn't really feel like there was a lot of build variety, but the dueling and combat in general felt great at that time.

Unrelated to the above.

I was confused why troll king was banned in this tournament, but defile is very powerful now. Troll king was strong when it launched, but I feel as if it has been grounded a lot since that time and given counter-play. I still see it as a useful set to help my medium armor catblade, but I doubt it could stand against a defile setup.

Synozeer

ManDraKE wrote: »

Synozeer wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Saw the stream of the tournament the other day, it was really good. I was expecting a lot of never-ending fights and absurd tanks setups but with the exception of one fight, the rest went really well. One thing i would like to see change is the poison rule, i understand the need of nerfing some poisons, like the resource cost and the inmovable posions, but nerfing all of them kills a lot of build variety, i for example use the double dot poisons to proc skoria on builds/classes that don't have many dots.

Kena your build is scary af, really strong, gj.

p.d: nerf minor maim lol

I tested previously and weapon poisons do not proc Skoria. But I always suggest testing on your own to confirm since nothing on the forums can be taken for gospel

just to be sure, went back and tested it agaisnt some NPCs, it does. It procs not only from the posion dots, but also from the posioned status that can be proc by any poison dmg

Well fiddle me sticks, it is procing Skoria! Several months ago I spent a while on a dummy trying to proc it with damage poisons and it wasn't working. I have no idea if I was just unlucky at the time or something changed since then, but thanks for retesting it. I just tried it again and had no issues procing it with the poisons.

NightbladeMechanics

OdinForge wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Unfortunately EU is 90% custom duel builds so this would be insanely boring for us... Rule of thumb: if they are comfortably over 30k health or with multiple ground aoes, expect atleast a 60% heal debuff. Minor defile poison major defile skills (or durok) and CP stacked in defile = rip non shield stackers.

Back pre 1.5 it was very much.a test of player skill... I cant think of any custom builds but maybe im wrong. These days people literally sustain through ele drain or only heavy weave as stam, in a build vs build fight. Of course skill somewhat matters but build is just so different to the open worpd builds many of us play.

Gl in future tournaments, hopefully the custom meta wont hit na too hard

1.5 was boring in the sense that it didn't really feel like there was a lot of build variety, but the dueling and combat in general felt great at that time.

Unrelated to the above.

I was confused why troll king was banned in this tournament, but defile is very powerful now. Troll king was strong when it launched, but I feel as if it has been grounded a lot since that time and given counter-play. I still see it as a useful set to help my medium armor catblade, but I doubt it could stand against a defile setup.

We had a lot of backlash against the set in guild while discussing rules, and its health regen bonus is currently not being reduced by defiles.

From HotR patch notes:

We've decided to allow the set into this weekend's tournament, and we'll see what happens. In general we're more worried about heavy armor builds than medium armor stamblades wearing the set.

VirtualElizabeth

@NightbladeMechanics Will there be a tournament this Saturday? I will probably never enter though because I am way too shy, lol. But I see it as a good way to meet people and discuss builds.

Thanks!

OdinForge

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Unfortunately EU is 90% custom duel builds so this would be insanely boring for us... Rule of thumb: if they are comfortably over 30k health or with multiple ground aoes, expect atleast a 60% heal debuff. Minor defile poison major defile skills (or durok) and CP stacked in defile = rip non shield stackers.

Back pre 1.5 it was very much.a test of player skill... I cant think of any custom builds but maybe im wrong. These days people literally sustain through ele drain or only heavy weave as stam, in a build vs build fight. Of course skill somewhat matters but build is just so different to the open worpd builds many of us play.

Gl in future tournaments, hopefully the custom meta wont hit na too hard

1.5 was boring in the sense that it didn't really feel like there was a lot of build variety, but the dueling and combat in general felt great at that time.

Unrelated to the above.

I was confused why troll king was banned in this tournament, but defile is very powerful now. Troll king was strong when it launched, but I feel as if it has been grounded a lot since that time and given counter-play. I still see it as a useful set to help my medium armor catblade, but I doubt it could stand against a defile setup.

We had a lot of backlash against the set in guild while discussing rules, and its health regen bonus is currently not being reduced by defiles.

From HotR patch notes:

We've decided to allow the set into this weekend's tournament, and we'll see what happens. In general we're more worried about heavy armor builds than medium armor stamblades wearing the set.

I saw how you guys judge the use of defensive ultimates or overly defensive builds, and I see troll king in the same light. Troll king should be used to aid an offensive medium armor build, if someone is clearly relying on stacking hp regen in heavy armor + other misc sources of regen, and not doing enough damage to win a fight, they shouldn't advance.

You should be able to build enough damage to be a threat and manage risk while going on the offensive. Those heavy armor troll king builds I view the same as pet sorcs using resto ult on cool-down.

NightbladeMechanics

OdinForge wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Unfortunately EU is 90% custom duel builds so this would be insanely boring for us... Rule of thumb: if they are comfortably over 30k health or with multiple ground aoes, expect atleast a 60% heal debuff. Minor defile poison major defile skills (or durok) and CP stacked in defile = rip non shield stackers.

Back pre 1.5 it was very much.a test of player skill... I cant think of any custom builds but maybe im wrong. These days people literally sustain through ele drain or only heavy weave as stam, in a build vs build fight. Of course skill somewhat matters but build is just so different to the open worpd builds many of us play.

Gl in future tournaments, hopefully the custom meta wont hit na too hard

1.5 was boring in the sense that it didn't really feel like there was a lot of build variety, but the dueling and combat in general felt great at that time.

Unrelated to the above.

I was confused why troll king was banned in this tournament, but defile is very powerful now. Troll king was strong when it launched, but I feel as if it has been grounded a lot since that time and given counter-play. I still see it as a useful set to help my medium armor catblade, but I doubt it could stand against a defile setup.

We had a lot of backlash against the set in guild while discussing rules, and its health regen bonus is currently not being reduced by defiles.

From HotR patch notes:

We've decided to allow the set into this weekend's tournament, and we'll see what happens. In general we're more worried about heavy armor builds than medium armor stamblades wearing the set.

I saw how you guys judge the use of defensive ultimates or overly defensive builds, and I see troll king in the same light. Troll king should be used to aid an offensive medium armor build, if someone is clearly relying on stacking hp regen in heavy armor + other misc sources of regen, and not doing enough damage to win a fight, they shouldn't advance.

You should be able to build enough damage to be a threat and manage risk while going on the offensive. Those heavy armor troll king builds I view the same as pet sorcs using resto ult on cool-down.

Yea, I agree. That's why we're letting it through this week. If someone comes in a stupidly defensive build, we'll just disqualify them.

BroanBeast1215

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

Bring on the defile. You're gonna see a medium Stam sorc performance this week. I've been perfecting the steel-nado spam, I am eso's ballerina. Pink tutu and a beard.... I'll win the Legend beauty contest as well.

strangely enough, this is a pretty accurate description to what Speed kills looks like right now. lawl

NightbladeMechanics

Updated the OP with information for this weekend's competition!