Please ruin Skoria set the way you ruined all the other proc sets

usmcjdking

Skoria's proc chance should return back to 5%. It's simply too easy to pile on dots while having Skoria act as your spammable due to it's low cooldown and fairly high proc chance.

Chilly-McFreeze

usmcjdking wrote: »

Skoria's proc chance should return back to 5%. It's simply too easy to pile on dots while having Skoria act as your spammable due to it's low cooldown and fairly high proc chance.

Why? It already doesn't really proc on cooldown. @Qbiken put it to the test a while ago. Plus, pushing for DoTs means not pushing for burst.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4388529/#Comment_4388529

Qbiken wrote: »

Did some dps test with Skoria to see if it procs so often as you claim @GeorgeBlack
Now keep in mind that this is a PvE setup and it´s much easier to maintain a high uptime on your DoTs (also easier to maintain more DoTs) than it is in a PvP scenario, that fact is un-deniable.
Disclaimer: If some calculation is wrong/incorrect, feel free to point them out.

For these tests we will have a few common DoTs: (A total of 7 DoTs)
- Engulfing Flames
- Burning Embers
- Blockade of Fire
- Standard of Might
- Burning status effect
- Eruption
- Rearming Trap

My setup:


1st DPS-test: Even though this dps parse is the one that took the most time the uptime on my DoTs are high in this dps parse. Still I messed up this one so not to take this one as very accurate. But we have 9 Skoria-procs during 135 second --> Which gives us a proc-rate of 1 Skoria every 15 seconds (roughly)


2nd DPS-test:
Fight duration: Roughly 84 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 12 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 7th second


3rd DPS-test:
Fight duration: Roughly 87 seconds. Amount of Skoria Procs = 11 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 8 second.


4th DPS-test:
Fight duration: Roughly 80 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 9 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 9th second


5th DPS-test:
Fight duration: Roughly 82 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 9 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 9th second.



DPS-test #6 and #7 are a little different than the previous ones. On these last 2 I only caused damage by using DoTs. These were: Blockade of Fire, Burning Embers, Engulfing Flames and Eruption (Standard of Might is there as well but during a very short amount of time during each parse)

6th DPS-test:
Fight duration: 185 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 23 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 8th second.


7th DPS-test:
Fight duration: 184 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 18 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 10th second.



Now, these test doesn´t prove that Skoria can´t proc off-cooldown. To prove that I would probably have to run another 100 dps test exactly like the previous ones to come to any conclusion. I would assume that @GeorgeBlack have done hundreds of these dps-tests as he/she can say with such confidence that Skoria procs off-cooldown (kappa)

Now this was single target. Against more enemies we would most likely have more Skoria procs since the DoTs would affect more enemies. As I said earlier it´s easier to maintain more DoTs and have a higher uptime on these in a PvE scenario than in a PvP scenario. In PvP however you might face multiple enemies to apply your DoTs on, but this goes even more in favour for PvE (aside from single target fights).

So even if we run a PvE magicka DK setup, which is one of the classes that uses the most DoTs in the game, we´re still not close to proc it every 5 seconds.

bubbygink

As a magblade I feel like every time I'm thinking of a new build it always starts out as "ok, what I am going to run with 2 piece skoria?" Skoria so clearly outperforms everything else (from an offensive standpoint I should clarify) that I can't imagine not running it. People saying it is hard to proc must not be doing something right because it procs so frequently for me and it does a ton of damage. I don't want it to be nerfed into the ground but some changes should be made in my opinion - and this is coming from somebody who, as I mentioned, uses it every day. It is just simply superior to any other offensive monster set.

Waffennacht

I stopped reading but I will go back and do so, wanted to say, on console our controllers rumble when skoria proc starts (indicator)

GrigorijMalahevich

Skoria is ok, but guys, don’t forget why we are all here ——->#nerfsorc<——-

ToRelax

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Reason not to nerf skoria:
- slimecraw would dominate and everyone would call to nerf that set.
- nerfing skoria would be a Nerf to mdks
- because you can't control the proc and it's an aoe DMG, it must remain undodgeable. Also making it dodgable would mean the set is intended for direct Attack abilities, and there would be no difference between skoria or nerienith.

It should receive a telegraph. But really that's it.

Why the hell would slimecraw be OP? Like really? It is just an 8% increase in damage which is for example also provided in the nb class. And no, skoria isn't an AoE. It is a single target proc, which does splash damage to surrounding enemies. Similar to reverse slice, which also is and should be dodgeable. It is not like real AoE's that are rightfully undodgeable, like caltrops, hail, hurricane, destro ult, wall of elements, etc. It would actually make sense to be able to dodge skoria. Right now it acts as a homing missile which is just silly imo.

1pc crit chance and 8% DMG let's you roll trip stat food and Regen mundas. Stat redistribution is already better than waiting for skoria to proc on the wrong target lol.

Skoria is undodgeable because you can't select the time it procs. Other abilities you can press the button and it will fire, hence why those abilities can be justifiably dodgeable.

If you want skoria dodgable, it would probably need a proc increase. Much better to make it telegraphed.

Just because something is a random proc that costs no resources or CGDs doesn't mean it should have less counterplay. >_>

One could argue that the build up to make it proc requires more gcds and resources than other proc sets and therefor has the undodgeable benefit.

No one uses a DoT just to proc Skoria. And considering DoTs are usually cheap skills dealing a lot of total damage, no, one can not argue that it requires more GCDs or resources to proc than other sets.

Chilly-McFreeze

ToRelax wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Reason not to nerf skoria:
- slimecraw would dominate and everyone would call to nerf that set.
- nerfing skoria would be a Nerf to mdks
- because you can't control the proc and it's an aoe DMG, it must remain undodgeable. Also making it dodgable would mean the set is intended for direct Attack abilities, and there would be no difference between skoria or nerienith.

It should receive a telegraph. But really that's it.

Why the hell would slimecraw be OP? Like really? It is just an 8% increase in damage which is for example also provided in the nb class. And no, skoria isn't an AoE. It is a single target proc, which does splash damage to surrounding enemies. Similar to reverse slice, which also is and should be dodgeable. It is not like real AoE's that are rightfully undodgeable, like caltrops, hail, hurricane, destro ult, wall of elements, etc. It would actually make sense to be able to dodge skoria. Right now it acts as a homing missile which is just silly imo.

1pc crit chance and 8% DMG let's you roll trip stat food and Regen mundas. Stat redistribution is already better than waiting for skoria to proc on the wrong target lol.

Skoria is undodgeable because you can't select the time it procs. Other abilities you can press the button and it will fire, hence why those abilities can be justifiably dodgeable.

If you want skoria dodgable, it would probably need a proc increase. Much better to make it telegraphed.

Just because something is a random proc that costs no resources or CGDs doesn't mean it should have less counterplay. >_>

One could argue that the build up to make it proc requires more gcds and resources than other proc sets and therefor has the undodgeable benefit.

No one uses a DoT just to proc Skoria. And considering DoTs are usually cheap skills dealing a lot of total damage, no, one can not argue that it requires more GCDs or resources to proc than other sets.

Sure, but 1-2 dots won't make skoria proc often enough. You have to build for it. And by building for a dot build you will not have a burst build. I always found burst superior to damage over time in pvp. Especially against anyone with a purge, good heals, cloak...

WuffyCerulei

Caza99 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Don't go asking for nerfs if it's gonna ruin a good amount of pve builds.

Giving it a visual indicator is really all it needs imo and that wont affect PvE at all thankfully

That's really not a bad idea. Like what they did with Selene's. It now has this big ole telegraph and a slightly longer delay to you can react better.

Valor

I main a dotblade and have since skoria came out. I do agree that from a pvp standpoint, having an indicator for people (maybe kind of like the one for big meteor) would be helpful in allowing others to prepare for the proc. As for PvE, please don't nerf my skoria damage, its the one thing keeping my build semi-viable.

Also @xylena hi. Why u wanna nerf my Jacob, we all know he's a scrub.

Rianai

In most cases Skoria will add more burst to a build than you have to give up for some DoTs. High sustained pressure from DoTs and high burst from skoria + whatever else burst skills you want to use. There is no real trade-off for using Skoria.

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

I stopped reading but I will go back and do so, wanted to say, on console our controllers rumble when skoria proc starts (indicator)

for getting sniped aswell?

Chilly-McFreeze

Rianai wrote: »

In most cases Skoria will add more burst to a build than you have to give up for some DoTs. High sustained pressure from DoTs and high burst from skoria + whatever else burst skills you want to use. There is no real trade-off for using Skoria.

High burst...we are talking about 3-4k damage every 6-7 seconds. Cliff racers hit harder than that. Don't get me started on how it procs on dead players or how unreliable (because uncontrollable) it is when you fight more than one opponent.

Rianai

More like 3,5-6k dmg from my experience. It is almost always among the most damaging "skills", when i check combat metrics after a PvP fight. I play sometimes with Skoria and sometimes without on my magblade, and Skoria makes killing players a lot easier. Too easy ...

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

This thread proves once again that the magicka community is a bunch of hypocrites. You cried (in the name of balance) for nerfs to all stamina proc sets, but no, your magicka cheese sets are totally fine. Totally not regretting that I cancelled ESO+ and uninstalled. Enjoy your shieldstack vs shieldstack, shieldstack vs blocktard and blocktard vs blocktard meta, may this game die once BDO releases on console.

If you cancelled your account and uninstalled the game, why are you wasting your time whining on forum of a game you don't play anymore?

bubbygink

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

In most cases Skoria will add more burst to a build than you have to give up for some DoTs. High sustained pressure from DoTs and high burst from skoria + whatever else burst skills you want to use. There is no real trade-off for using Skoria.

High burst...we are talking about 3-4k damage every 6-7 seconds. Cliff racers hit harder than that. Don't get me started on how it procs on dead players or how unreliable (because uncontrollable) it is when you fight more than one opponent.

You aren't looking at the right way though. It isn't "just 4k damage," it is an "extra 4k damage." It is the fact that it adds on to whatever you're already doing. That is why it allows for "high burst." There is no other way to add 4-5k damage onto my burst combo (or even anything close to that) other than to run Skoria. So yes, Skoria allows for high burst. And as long as your keeping your DoTs up properly then its totally free and passive burst.

Chilly-McFreeze

bubbygink wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

In most cases Skoria will add more burst to a build than you have to give up for some DoTs. High sustained pressure from DoTs and high burst from skoria + whatever else burst skills you want to use. There is no real trade-off for using Skoria.

High burst...we are talking about 3-4k damage every 6-7 seconds. Cliff racers hit harder than that. Don't get me started on how it procs on dead players or how unreliable (because uncontrollable) it is when you fight more than one opponent.

You aren't looking at the right way though. It isn't "just 4k damage," it is an "extra 4k damage." It is the fact that it adds on to whatever you're already doing. That is why it allows for "high burst." There is no other way to add 4-5k damage onto my burst combo (or even anything close to that) other than to run Skoria. So yes, Skoria allows for high burst. And as long as your keeping your DoTs up properly then its totally free and passive burst.

Don't know your build but it seems more like a "no other good magicka proc sets" issue - or even an issue with proc sets in general. Is it that what it comes down to?
Selene and Veli hit way harder, but are designed for stam. I could even go on about how bloodspawn lets me throw around ultimates with higher frequency than without, or how I can afford to go less into healing/survivability and more into dmg etc with malu.

Like others said, give it a visual indicator. Especially with the sound issues we have at the moment.

Chilly-McFreeze

Rianai wrote: »

More like 3,5-6k dmg from my experience. It is almost always among the most damaging "skills", when i check combat metrics after a PvP fight. I play sometimes with Skoria and sometimes without on my magblade, and Skoria makes killing players a lot easier. Too easy ...

Sure, depends on CP allocation and resistance in general. But to buff up skoria you need to invest at Master at arms (direct damage) and Elemental Expert and Spell Erosion. Two of them are no-goods on stam builds and the dot builds ususally dont put much into MaA but in thaumaturg instead. Another point worth noting.

BohnT

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

More like 3,5-6k dmg from my experience. It is almost always among the most damaging "skills", when i check combat metrics after a PvP fight. I play sometimes with Skoria and sometimes without on my magblade, and Skoria makes killing players a lot easier. Too easy ...

Sure, depends on CP allocation and resistance in general. But to buff up skoria you need to invest at Master at arms (direct damage) and Elemental Expert and Spell Erosion. Two of them are no-goods on stam builds and the dot builds ususally dont put much into MaA but in thaumaturg instead. Another point worth noting.

Dots aren't as weak as you say they are. If you go full nuts and use dots only then yes your burst will suck but all dot builds have 1 or 2 burst abilities to nuke ppl once their dots ate far enough through your enemies health.

It still hits my target all the time and 9/10 ppl are not blocking it. On my magdk equipping skoria is the only chance i have to kill tankier players because it adds this much burst.
It hits harder than whip and with the current cp Design you do not waste much when using more than one dot.
On magnb it's enough to run cripple to proc skoria, if i use path i have guided meteor that hits most targets for 4.5-6k and they don't even see it coming.
For the argument that you can't chose the enemy you want to hit. That doesn't make the set worse it's free damage and in conjunction with how much damage it deals it often gives me the chance to nuke the person who was hit by skoria.
In PC addons show you that your armor set procced, now you wait who gets hit by it and then unleash your full burst that is often enough to kill most non tanks because your dots already drained their health.

Skoria offers not enough counterplay for it's damage, ease of use and proc rate.

Add a visual indicator and make the single target damage dodgeable or change how the set works. Make the full aoe hit for the single target damage but make it work like infernal guardian where the AoE sticks to the floor and ppl can walk out of it.

Waffennacht

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I stopped reading but I will go back and do so, wanted to say, on console our controllers rumble when skoria proc starts (indicator)

for getting sniped aswell?

@Derra it does not actually

SRASinister

Waffennacht wrote: »

I stopped reading but I will go back and do so, wanted to say, on console our controllers rumble when skoria proc starts (indicator)

I turned my rumble off a long time ago, but now I guess i'll have to turn it back on especially with the disappearance of animations

NightbladeMechanics

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Skoria is currently the only Max Health monster set that a PvE DPS can use effectively. Nerf the damage on it and that won’t be the case anymore.

But nevermind that.... Sypher and every other great player killed you so if you nerf their gear then you won’t die anymore, right?

Idk man - i use it myself and i´m wondering how any decent player can claim it´s not overperforming (ofc only compared to other offensive sets).

It's balanced in every pve but not pvp. That means we need a pvp based counter that won't be a pve nerf

PvEers use it for the line of health in the new trial. It’s not bis dps.

You could nerf Valkyn and buff Nerieneth. I’d recommmend reducing the frequency with which Valkyn procs or slowing its fall speed as opposed to its damage, and Neri’s main problem is its delay.

Or PvEers could relax and move on to another set or adaptation, as they always do. Dps is very high right now.

casparian

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Skoria is currently the only Max Health monster set that a PvE DPS can use effectively. Nerf the damage on it and that won’t be the case anymore.

But nevermind that.... Sypher and every other great player killed you so if you nerf their gear then you won’t die anymore, right?

Idk man - i use it myself and i´m wondering how any decent player can claim it´s not overperforming (ofc only compared to other offensive sets).

It's balanced in every pve but not pvp. That means we need a pvp based counter that won't be a pve nerf

PvEers use it for the line of health in the new trial. It’s not bis dps.

You could nerf Valkyn and buff Nerieneth. I’d recommmend reducing the frequency with which Valkyn procs or slowing its fall speed as opposed to its damage, and Neri’s main problem is its delay.

Or PvEers could relax and move on to another set or adaptation, as they always do. Dps is very high right now.

It is BIS on PVE magblade (unless you're running a Force Pulse build) for ranged fights. Which is a lot of them. But a nerf to its fall speed (especially if accompanied by making it dodgeable) would end the PVP crying without affecting PVE at all.

Joy_Division

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Skoria is currently the only Max Health monster set that a PvE DPS can use effectively. Nerf the damage on it and that won’t be the case anymore.

But nevermind that.... Sypher and every other great player killed you so if you nerf their gear then you won’t die anymore, right?

Idk man - i use it myself and i´m wondering how any decent player can claim it´s not overperforming (ofc only compared to other offensive sets).

That's one way to look at it. Another is that the other offensive sets are garbage and would actually detract from a build.

It is rare that I will side with PvErs against PvPers, but they are right in that PvPers whine and complain way too much and are responsible for sucking the life out of genuinely interesting class abilities and other mechanics that got me addicted to ESO way back when.

Waffennacht

I gotta agree with Joy, we get a lot nerfed... Sadly

Koensol

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Reason not to nerf skoria:
- slimecraw would dominate and everyone would call to nerf that set.
- nerfing skoria would be a Nerf to mdks
- because you can't control the proc and it's an aoe DMG, it must remain undodgeable. Also making it dodgable would mean the set is intended for direct Attack abilities, and there would be no difference between skoria or nerienith.

It should receive a telegraph. But really that's it.

Why the hell would slimecraw be OP? Like really? It is just an 8% increase in damage which is for example also provided in the nb class. And no, skoria isn't an AoE. It is a single target proc, which does splash damage to surrounding enemies. Similar to reverse slice, which also is and should be dodgeable. It is not like real AoE's that are rightfully undodgeable, like caltrops, hail, hurricane, destro ult, wall of elements, etc. It would actually make sense to be able to dodge skoria. Right now it acts as a homing missile which is just silly imo.

Short question: can you dodge that other meteor in this game? You know, shooting star/ ice comet.

That is an ultimate. Not comparable at all.

CatchMeTrolling

Npcs dont have the ability to complain.

ak_pvp

What we need is less TTK, not nerf thing so there is more.

BohnT

ak_pvp wrote: »

What we need is less TTK, not nerf thing so there is more.

TTK is low due to no drawbacks of stacking health and zerging and this is only possible with overperforming skills and sets.
Oblivion damage+ torugs+ infused weapon and knight slayer let you dish out enough damage to kill ppl even when you turtle up.
Shieldbreaker can be combined with 60k health to kill damage focused builds.
Skoria hits for 4k even when used on a tank setup with 20k mag and 1.7k spelldmg.
Wizard riposte makes you tanky as hell.

There are still things which need to go because they are responsible for the high TTK. With the nerfs to resto, trees and 1h&s ult TTK decreased noticeable but it's not finished yet.
As long as you aren't punished for running with +30k health you can bet TTK won't go down.

Chilly-McFreeze

Koensol wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Reason not to nerf skoria:
- slimecraw would dominate and everyone would call to nerf that set.
- nerfing skoria would be a Nerf to mdks
- because you can't control the proc and it's an aoe DMG, it must remain undodgeable. Also making it dodgable would mean the set is intended for direct Attack abilities, and there would be no difference between skoria or nerienith.

It should receive a telegraph. But really that's it.

Why the hell would slimecraw be OP? Like really? It is just an 8% increase in damage which is for example also provided in the nb class. And no, skoria isn't an AoE. It is a single target proc, which does splash damage to surrounding enemies. Similar to reverse slice, which also is and should be dodgeable. It is not like real AoE's that are rightfully undodgeable, like caltrops, hail, hurricane, destro ult, wall of elements, etc. It would actually make sense to be able to dodge skoria. Right now it acts as a homing missile which is just silly imo.

Short question: can you dodge that other meteor in this game? You know, shooting star/ ice comet.

That is an ultimate. Not comparable at all.

I know. But you were the one who compared it to active skills first.

Derra

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Skoria is currently the only Max Health monster set that a PvE DPS can use effectively. Nerf the damage on it and that won’t be the case anymore.

But nevermind that.... Sypher and every other great player killed you so if you nerf their gear then you won’t die anymore, right?

Idk man - i use it myself and i´m wondering how any decent player can claim it´s not overperforming (ofc only compared to other offensive sets).

That's one way to look at it. Another is that the other offensive sets are garbage and would actually detract from a build.

It is rare that I will side with PvErs against PvPers, but they are right in that PvPers whine and complain way too much and are responsible for sucking the life out of genuinely interesting class abilities and other mechanics that got me addicted to ESO way back when.

Idk - will always and have always advocated that armor should not deal damage burstdamage for you. Especially on procc based chances.
I agree that the other offensive monster 2p proccsets are mostly garbage especially for magica and should see some rework to make them desireable if you tailor your build to use them.

As for instant dmg proccs - i think selene and velidreth are in a decent spot atm. Valkyn should atleast have a visual indicator and the singletarget part should be dodgeable (you then take the aoe dmg instead) - maybe the proccrate should be slightly raised along with a second more cd.
Nerieneth should also get it´s delay reduced further ~1.2s to match selene or veli better - or alternatively should match the NPC mechanic of snaring the target on hit.