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increase the cool down on the Valkyn Skoria set

  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
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    Ilambris can just proc by specific weapon attacks , also proc by 2 different nature attacks , its free too , its powerful ms , I have no idea why u asking for nerf a weaker ms VS , funny
  • arkansas_ESO
    arkansas_ESO
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    Ankael07 wrote: »
    SanTii.92 wrote: »
    CavalryPK wrote: »
    Dot builds use Valkyn Skoria because it procs of Dots and gives the user a bit of burst and a chance to lock down their enemy. That's fair.
    However Valkyn Skoria procs all the time. It's essentially giving free damage to the user, while they are not required to put any effort at all to go all out and attack since the set will deal damage in very small intervals of time. It's a matter of time before their enemy dies.
    Valkyn Skoria should not offer free damage. Skoria users should use the moment when the meteor falls and go aggro.
    A meaningful increase in the Cool Down of the effect would not harm the burst phase, but it would make the set more balanced.

    I play a dragon knight and I have lots of Dots that I can apply. However I find that Skoria is overperforming and it needs to be looked after. ESO is taking a very good path with HOTR. Lets make this the best update yet.
    @Zos_GinaBruno

    I would also support to remove all proc (any types) out of the game.

    I also support this.
    Why? Procs are fun to use and not inherently overtuned. I don't understand this sentiment at all

    It's free damage, and not a subtle amount either. They should never have been introduced to begin with. I PvP to fight players not armor.

    This game has become quite talentless.

    If you think about it spell/weapon damage is ''free'' as well.Take Clever Alchemist for example. Its 650 s/w damage and when you combine that with ultis like soul assault, incap,leap or destro ulti it increases burst damage by a fair amount. Add the fact that the damage can crit and increases your healing as well. So a delayed 3-4k damage with sound indicator from Skoria doesnt seem so bad

    Clever Alchemist:
    • requires you to run a 5pc for it
    • can only be procced every 45 seconds with a 15 second uptime
    • requires you to use your potion for burst instead of resource management
    • requires an active input from the user (using a potion) whereas Valkyn is completely RNG based

    Valkyn:
    • is only a 2pc
    • can be procced every 5 seconds
    • requires you to run DOTs, which is a big issue for some builds (ex. magic sorc has no good PVP DOTs) but other builds are already 100% DOT based (ex. everything a magic Templar has is a channel and considered a DOT) and can proc the set on cooldown without doing anything other than just slotting Valkyn
    • doesn't require active input from the user (it's not like Clever Alchemist which requires to use a potion, or Molag Kena which requires you to do two light attacks)

    I run both of these sets on magblade, and they're not comparable. Clever Alchemist isn't a proc set, and Valkyn needs a damage nerf.
    Edited by arkansas_ESO on August 1, 2017 12:07AM


    Grand Overlord 25/8/17
  • Banana
    Banana
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    No
  • gepe87
    gepe87
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    Due to CoA2 is one of the most difficult dung, it would not be good to nerf it. Maybe thats why the monster sets from DLC also dont get nerf (and they revert kena in some previous patch)
    Gepe, General MagSorc | Ghepe, First Sergeant MagDK | Gepe Direnni, Colonel Magplar | Gepi, Sergeant Magblade | Gepe Greenheart, Mystic Stamden CP1000+
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  • Toast_STS
    Toast_STS
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    I'm going 5 sheer venom 5 viper 2 skoria on my dk next patch. Yay dot builds! Going to have to farm viper now though =(. At least I won't need sharpened weapons.
    VR14 DK Leaps-in-keeps
  • GeorgeBlack
    GeorgeBlack
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    Ankael07 wrote: »
    SanTii.92 wrote: »
    CavalryPK wrote: »
    Dot builds use Valkyn Skoria because it procs of Dots and gives the user a bit of burst and a chance to lock down their enemy. That's fair.
    However Valkyn Skoria procs all the time. It's essentially giving free damage to the user, while they are not required to put any effort at all to go all out and attack since the set will deal damage in very small intervals of time. It's a matter of time before their enemy dies.
    Valkyn Skoria should not offer free damage. Skoria users should use the moment when the meteor falls and go aggro.
    A meaningful increase in the Cool Down of the effect would not harm the burst phase, but it would make the set more balanced.

    I play a dragon knight and I have lots of Dots that I can apply. However I find that Skoria is overperforming and it needs to be looked after. ESO is taking a very good path with HOTR. Lets make this the best update yet.
    @Zos_GinaBruno

    I would also support to remove all proc (any types) out of the game.

    I also support this.
    Why? Procs are fun to use and not inherently overtuned. I don't understand this sentiment at all

    It's free damage, and not a subtle amount either. They should never have been introduced to begin with. I PvP to fight players not armor.

    This game has become quite talentless.

    If you think about it spell/weapon damage is ''free'' as well.Take Clever Alchemist for example. Its 650 s/w damage and when you combine that with ultis like soul assault, incap,leap or destro ulti it increases burst damage by a fair amount. Add the fact that the damage can crit and increases your healing as well. So a delayed 3-4k damage with sound indicator from Skoria doesnt seem so bad


    Clever alchemists effect is based on potions CD which is a lot
    Clever alchemists effect lasts for 15s
    Clever alchemist requires YOU, the armor user, to time the effect just before you are about to die (risk) in order to turn the tables and win.
    If you use Clever alchemist as a gang set, it means that you WASTE a potion before the battle has started (risk). The target can totally go in defense mode, survive, attack. And you don't have a potion
    Clever alchemist is a 5p set that doesn't offer instant damage.
    It's a pretty good idea for the game. Nothing like proc sets.

  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    I´m not supporting a nerf to Valkyn since I don´t think it´s OP. And there´re some pros and cons with Skoria:
    Skoria
    +
    1. Deals good damage and some AoE damage
    2. Can not be dodged or avoided only mitigated
    3. Perfectly synergises with magdk and magplar and adds strong burst to the dot pressure
    4. Can be procced from distance
    5. Has multiple sources which can proc it
    6. No visual clue that it targets you
    7. Independence of the damage from the build
    8. Grants some survivability on top of the damage
    9. Low cooldown

    -
    1. Low proc chance
    2. Pure luck to hit the desired target in AoE fights
    3. Audio clue for the proc
    4. Requires dots to work (1 dot will rarely make Skoria proc constantly)
    5. Opportunity cost of 2 pieces
    6. No damage increase with the 1pc
    7. Has sort of a delay when the meteor comes from the sky

    A change I could get behind would be to add some sort of visual sign that you´re going to get hit by Skoria. It will make the opportunity for counterplay better but also help DK´s know who to focus in a fight (since they will also know who the Skoria meteor will hit and therefore time there burst against that particular target).
    It´s funny how people cried about Skoria was too weak a few patches ago and wanted a buff to the set. Then people where overwhelmed with that buff (perhaps 1,5-2 years ago). It wasn´t until Homestead I started see players on the forums complaining about "Skoria being OP".

    And George, if you´re going to make claims that Skoria procs "constantly". At least bring some evidence to it, or else it´s just loose talk.
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  • GeorgeBlack
    GeorgeBlack
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    I´m not supporting a nerf to Valkyn since I don´t think it´s OP. And there´re some pros and cons with Skoria:
    Skoria
    +
    1. Deals good damage and some AoE damage
    2. Can not be dodged or avoided only mitigated
    3. Perfectly synergises with magdk and magplar and adds strong burst to the dot pressure
    4. Can be procced from distance
    5. Has multiple sources which can proc it
    6. No visual clue that it targets you
    7. Independence of the damage from the build
    8. Grants some survivability on top of the damage
    9. Low cooldown

    -
    1. Low proc chance
    2. Pure luck to hit the desired target in AoE fights
    3. Audio clue for the proc
    4. Requires dots to work (1 dot will rarely make Skoria proc constantly)
    5. Opportunity cost of 2 pieces
    6. No damage increase with the 1pc
    7. Has sort of a delay when the meteor comes from the sky

    A change I could get behind would be to add some sort of visual sign that you´re going to get hit by Skoria. It will make the opportunity for counterplay better but also help DK´s know who to focus in a fight (since they will also know who the Skoria meteor will hit and therefore time there burst against that particular target).
    It´s funny how people cried about Skoria was too weak a few patches ago and wanted a buff to the set. Then people where overwhelmed with that buff (perhaps 1,5-2 years ago). It wasn´t until Homestead I started see players on the forums complaining about "Skoria being OP".

    And George, if you´re going to make claims that Skoria procs "constantly". At least bring some evidence to it, or else it´s just loose talk.


    You claim that Skoria doesn't proc frequently? You are a straight faced lier.

    You want to help people defend against Skoria? Make them work for their survival? That's not a change.
    I want Skoria users to have to work to kill their targets, when the proc happens.

    Increasing the CD is a meaningful change.
    You don't offer meaningful change. You don't see the reason for it. You want things to remain as they are.
    Nice post. Too long. Just say "no need to nerf, it works fine". Which is a lie.
  • GeorgeBlack
    GeorgeBlack
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    I run a dot build in pvp an here's what I experience.

    1) You have to apply several dots, if you just run one or two DoTs it will definitively NOT proc on cooldown

    2) Having to apply several DoTs means you have to go through many gcd until you have a relativ constant proc chance

    3) Everyone with a purge or a Templar nearby can clean DoTs off, means it's far more difficult to proc Skoria than any set that just demands melee / weapon damage done or simply to take damage

    4) It has a sound indicator and a short delay afterwards

    5) Except for 1v1 You usually go against several opponents, means you have neither control about when it procs and on who.

    One cleanse can completely shut down your DoTs and therefor your proc chance + the inability to select WHO and when I want it to hit are the biggest issues on this. Therefore it would be a bad idea to make it reflectable. An additional visual indicator would go a long way for both ends of this set.
    One cleance costs 8k magika.
    How many classes have access to status effect removal abilities?

  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    I run a dot build in pvp an here's what I experience.

    1) You have to apply several dots, if you just run one or two DoTs it will definitively NOT proc on cooldown

    2) Having to apply several DoTs means you have to go through many gcd until you have a relativ constant proc chance

    3) Everyone with a purge or a Templar nearby can clean DoTs off, means it's far more difficult to proc Skoria than any set that just demands melee / weapon damage done or simply to take damage

    4) It has a sound indicator and a short delay afterwards

    5) Except for 1v1 You usually go against several opponents, means you have neither control about when it procs and on who.

    One cleanse can completely shut down your DoTs and therefor your proc chance + the inability to select WHO and when I want it to hit are the biggest issues on this. Therefore it would be a bad idea to make it reflectable. An additional visual indicator would go a long way for both ends of this set.
    One cleance costs 8k magika.
    How many classes have access to status effect removal abilities?

    All the groups in PVP. And its more like 8000/x cost of magicka (where x is number of people in your group up to some set maximum targets cleanse affects)
    PC | EU | AD
  • Fvh09NL
    Fvh09NL
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    Imo it is absolutely fine, it doesn't proc that much if you aren't running a dot build and if you do run such a build you won't have much room for burst abilities. It's a fair trade-off I think.

    I also think that monster sets in general are fun and in no way overpowered, but they should never have added direct damage 5 piece sets since this allowed proc set stacking, and that is a problem. They went the right direction with HotR and especially viper.
  • GeorgeBlack
    GeorgeBlack
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    Sounds like OP got recently killed by a random Skoria proc effect because he failed to block or ward up against the meteor as it rumbled and created a noise as it began its delayed, telegraphed 2-sec impact.

    This is clearly a L2P issue. Skoria is not overpowered - the apparent lack of skill among these players is.

    You know you gonna read something stupid when a persons in forums starts by "Sounds like OP..."

  • Weps
    Weps
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    Not a single problem with this set, to me it's in the league of the powerful but unreliable ( despite what everyone is saying ).
    On magplar it usually procs at the beginning of the fight, first two jabs, then it doesn't proc for ages and then usually it does on the people I don't want it to proc.
    Let me not even begin on MagDK. I dropped it in favor of Grothdarr because I lost the count of how many times it proc'd on a player I've already killed or did the same after I was killed.

    Tune down the damage if you will, add a telegraph should fix almost every issue but I see nothing wrong with it.
    It's not that easy to get, you have a veeeery low proc chance, you need to have a ton of laughable dots for it to proc consistently and when it does, you have a 2 seconds delay, you have all the signals in the world and you can block it.
    You know, there are tons of different mechanics in this game and blocking is one of those. Learn to block. Otherwise if someone drops a meteor on you what are you going to do? Dodge it?
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  • SanTii.92
    SanTii.92
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    Thing about skoria is that it needs specific builds to make it work, not like selene's. So a skoria nerf would actually be a mtemplar and dk one, and i don't feel like those classes are overperforming. So no, don't think it's needed.
    When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
    the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.

    Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.
  • BNOC
    BNOC
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    Skoria is only good in 1v1 situations.
    Cyrodil is not a 1v1 environment.
    Bgs are not a 1v1 environment.

    The main issue I have with Skoria is that it's uncontrollable as to when you drop it - There's literally 0 gain from it dropping when I'm rebuffing and my opponent is at full health and it happens all the time.
    • If you want to make it dodgeable, give the user more control over when it drops so you can time your burst in the small windows that appear. Don't make it dodgeable and then keep it randomly proccing pointlessly, nobody would use it over Grothdarr.

    If I could drop that as and when I wanted 100% of the time, it would be too powerful, the fact is, I can't.

    Any player who wears this over Grothdarr in AoE situations (90% of your time in PvP) is a fool.


    Edited by BNOC on August 1, 2017 4:32PM
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  • GeorgeBlack
    GeorgeBlack
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    BNOC wrote: »
    Skoria is only good in 1v1 situations.
    Cyrodil is not a 1v1 environment.
    Bgs are not a 1v1 environment.

    The main issue I have with Skoria is that it's uncontrollable as to when you drop it - There's literally 0 gain from it dropping when I'm rebuffing and my opponent is at full health and it happens all the time.

    If I could drop that as and when I wanted 100% of the time, it would be too powerful, the fact is, I can't.

    Any player who wears this over Grothdarr in AoE situations (90% of your time in PvP) is a fool.


    Rest assured that once this transmogrification hits you will see many people going for Grothdarr.
    In fact you will see the game becoming full of cheese builds and then you'll change your mind on armors giving damage.

  • Sordidfairytale
    Sordidfairytale
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    Absolutely no need to adjust Skoria. It's been balanced for some time.
    The Vegemite Knight

    "if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

    The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

    Alchemy leveling
  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
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    BNOC wrote: »
    Skoria is only good in 1v1 situations.
    Cyrodil is not a 1v1 environment.
    Bgs are not a 1v1 environment.

    The main issue I have with Skoria is that it's uncontrollable as to when you drop it - There's literally 0 gain from it dropping when I'm rebuffing and my opponent is at full health and it happens all the time.

    If I could drop that as and when I wanted 100% of the time, it would be too powerful, the fact is, I can't.

    Any player who wears this over Grothdarr in AoE situations (90% of your time in PvP) is a fool.


    Rest assured that once this transmogrification hits you will see many people going for Grothdarr.
    This is probably true. That's one ugly set.
    Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub
  • TequilaFire
    TequilaFire
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    Everyone is wrong that doesn't agree with OP, he says so.
    My Imgakin beta monkey got lost in a load screen.
    Lupis Mortis EP Magplar
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    PC: @Tequilafire


  • GeorgeBlack
    GeorgeBlack
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    SanTii.92 wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Did some dps test with Skoria to see if it procs so often as you claim @GeorgeBlack
    Now keep in mind that this is a PvE setup and it´s much easier to maintain a high uptime on your DoTs (also easier to maintain more DoTs) than it is in a PvP scenario, that fact is un-deniable.
    Disclaimer: If some calculation is wrong/incorrect, feel free to point them out.

    Now, these test doesn´t prove that Skoria can´t proc off-cooldown. To prove that I would probably have to run another 100 dps test exactly like the previous ones to come to any conclusion. I would assume that @GeorgeBlack have done hundreds of these dps-tests as he/she can say with such confidence that Skoria procs off-cooldown (kappa)

    So even if we run a PvE magicka DK setup, which is one of the classes that uses the most DoTs in the game, we´re still not close to proc it every 5 seconds.
    Damn, Op got schooled so hard.

    I just got back from the movies. Despicable Me 3 was ok. Had a good time.
    Nerf Skoria, Nerf Torugs Pact, proc damage sets. Eso is going in a good direction



  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    valkyn needs a nerf, it proccs all the livelong day in combat and deals way too much dmg (aoe)
    Altmer Sorceror, magicka
    Bosmer Nightblade, stamina.
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  • idk
    idk
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Did some dps test with Skoria to see if it procs so often as you claim @GeorgeBlack
    Now keep in mind that this is a PvE setup and it´s much easier to maintain a high uptime on your DoTs (also easier to maintain more DoTs) than it is in a PvP scenario, that fact is un-deniable.
    Disclaimer: If some calculation is wrong/incorrect, feel free to point them out.

    For these tests we will have a few common DoTs: (A total of 7 DoTs)
    - Engulfing Flames
    - Burning Embers
    - Blockade of Fire
    - Standard of Might
    - Burning status effect
    - Eruption
    - Rearming Trap

    My setup:
    3nbn6fmo8f41.png

    1st DPS-test: Even though this dps parse is the one that took the most time the uptime on my DoTs are high in this dps parse. Still I messed up this one so not to take this one as very accurate. But we have 9 Skoria-procs during 135 second --> Which gives us a proc-rate of 1 Skoria every 15 seconds (roughly)
    fh3yhbklz3ry.png

    2nd DPS-test:
    Fight duration: Roughly 84 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 12 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 7th second
    xlracljhzas5.png

    3rd DPS-test:
    Fight duration: Roughly 87 seconds. Amount of Skoria Procs = 11 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 8 second.
    0dmbjejin42b.png

    4th DPS-test:
    Fight duration: Roughly 80 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 9 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 9th second
    1s2ovcnx8e6d.png

    5th DPS-test:
    Fight duration: Roughly 82 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 9 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 9th second.
    2xnr0mmm6xbe.png


    DPS-test #6 and #7 are a little different than the previous ones. On these last 2 I only caused damage by using DoTs. These were: Blockade of Fire, Burning Embers, Engulfing Flames and Eruption (Standard of Might is there as well but during a very short amount of time during each parse)

    6th DPS-test:
    Fight duration: 185 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 23 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 8th second.
    qrryzdlnmeis.png

    7th DPS-test:
    Fight duration: 184 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 18 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 10th second.
    wiyex0m40yfy.png


    Now, these test doesn´t prove that Skoria can´t proc off-cooldown. To prove that I would probably have to run another 100 dps test exactly like the previous ones to come to any conclusion. I would assume that @GeorgeBlack have done hundreds of these dps-tests as he/she can say with such confidence that Skoria procs off-cooldown (kappa)

    Now this was single target. Against more enemies we would most likely have more Skoria procs since the DoTs would affect more enemies. As I said earlier it´s easier to maintain more DoTs and have a higher uptime on these in a PvE scenario than in a PvP scenario. In PvP however you might face multiple enemies to apply your DoTs on, but this goes even more in favour for PvE (aside from single target fights).

    So even if we run a PvE magicka DK setup, which is one of the classes that uses the most DoTs in the game, we´re still not close to proc it every 5 seconds.

    Your running a lot of dots in those tests. Probably much more than a magicka dk would run in PvP. Good work. Best to look at the entire picture rather than just call for a nerf because one doesn't like it.

    Heck, that mDK trying to apply all those dots wouldn't get many dots applied before the sDK stood over their corpse. sDK
    Really, idk
  • Sordidfairytale
    Sordidfairytale
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Did some dps test with Skoria to see if it procs so often as you claim @GeorgeBlack
    Now keep in mind that this is a PvE setup and it´s much easier to maintain a high uptime on your DoTs (also easier to maintain more DoTs) than it is in a PvP scenario, that fact is un-deniable.
    Disclaimer: If some calculation is wrong/incorrect, feel free to point them out.

    For these tests we will have a few common DoTs: (A total of 7 DoTs)
    - Engulfing Flames
    - Burning Embers
    - Blockade of Fire
    - Standard of Might
    - Burning status effect
    - Eruption
    - Rearming Trap

    My setup:
    3nbn6fmo8f41.png

    1st DPS-test: Even though this dps parse is the one that took the most time the uptime on my DoTs are high in this dps parse. Still I messed up this one so not to take this one as very accurate. But we have 9 Skoria-procs during 135 second --> Which gives us a proc-rate of 1 Skoria every 15 seconds (roughly)
    fh3yhbklz3ry.png

    2nd DPS-test:
    Fight duration: Roughly 84 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 12 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 7th second
    xlracljhzas5.png

    3rd DPS-test:
    Fight duration: Roughly 87 seconds. Amount of Skoria Procs = 11 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 8 second.
    0dmbjejin42b.png

    4th DPS-test:
    Fight duration: Roughly 80 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 9 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 9th second
    1s2ovcnx8e6d.png

    5th DPS-test:
    Fight duration: Roughly 82 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 9 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 9th second.
    2xnr0mmm6xbe.png


    DPS-test #6 and #7 are a little different than the previous ones. On these last 2 I only caused damage by using DoTs. These were: Blockade of Fire, Burning Embers, Engulfing Flames and Eruption (Standard of Might is there as well but during a very short amount of time during each parse)

    6th DPS-test:
    Fight duration: 185 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 23 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 8th second.
    qrryzdlnmeis.png

    7th DPS-test:
    Fight duration: 184 seconds. Amount of Skoria procs = 18 --> Which gives us a procrate of 1 Skoria every 10th second.
    wiyex0m40yfy.png


    Now, these test doesn´t prove that Skoria can´t proc off-cooldown. To prove that I would probably have to run another 100 dps test exactly like the previous ones to come to any conclusion. I would assume that @GeorgeBlack have done hundreds of these dps-tests as he/she can say with such confidence that Skoria procs off-cooldown (kappa)

    Now this was single target. Against more enemies we would most likely have more Skoria procs since the DoTs would affect more enemies. As I said earlier it´s easier to maintain more DoTs and have a higher uptime on these in a PvE scenario than in a PvP scenario. In PvP however you might face multiple enemies to apply your DoTs on, but this goes even more in favour for PvE (aside from single target fights).

    So even if we run a PvE magicka DK setup, which is one of the classes that uses the most DoTs in the game, we´re still not close to proc it every 5 seconds.

    Your science dot just proc'd my valkyn skoria.
    The Vegemite Knight

    "if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

    The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

    Alchemy leveling
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