The exploit ban is too harsh.

TheValar85

Slick_007 wrote: »

people complain ZOS stance not hard enough on cheaters. suggest cheaters should be banned.
ZOS ban people for cheating
people complain ZOS stance too hard on cheaters

yeah even those people dosent know what they want in real life too. we can see that very well here.

Concret

I agree
Do not perma ban these players.

Give them an unique non modifiable title "exploiter" !

Thalmor-Nordmaster

14 months of BS. Exploits have ruined and wiped many boards (ZOS Reset)

The T.O.S is fairly bulletproof here is the section those players should have paid attention to.

"You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;"

Report means. Discover,Verify,Report and then remove yourself from the situation. It also means treat it like an NDA. Those of us who have signed NDA's with ZOS are smart enough and disciplined enough to leave to the Company what is the company's.

IE you keep silent about it and let zen do their job. Don't try to jump in and test and do things to make the situation worse. Do not try to benefit from the broken section of the game. Having knowledge of an exploit and then using such said exploit is far worse than accidentally finding one.

These players did not operate in a vacuum this wasn't an accident, or, a coincidence this was planned and coordinated and monetized.

So now they can suck it up get a new account and play fair for a change. Honest people were affected buy this glitched run. Any one that has ever run Vet dungeons or Trials knows the amount of work,potions,gear,repair kits,rotations,strat,teamwork and Broken Mice/KB that goes into getting the job done . This cheapened the efforts of the honest and attempted to make a mockery of their accomplishments.

34 people is not a coincidence it is an organized event which would lead one to question who in their group found out about this in the PTS and kept silent.

Mureel

starkerealm wrote: »

They deliberately camped outside the boss room, and ground down the boss without taking damage. This could well have taken them over 10 minutes, depending on their damage output.

They didn't do this accidentally.

They did this intentionally, to get a server first hardmode clear.

After they were banned they came crawling back saying, "no, we weren't going to use it for the bragging rights."

Right.

No sympathy here.

And even WORSE they charged people for clears for the skin like wtf. Aw hell naw. Good Riddance.

Arthg

Looking at the past, and ZOS's chronic passivity, leniency and indifference regarding exploits and cheats, then yes, this decision clearly is unfair.

If on the other hand this decision marks the dawn of a new era to clean the game, where cheats and exploits will diligently and severely be punished, then so be it, and go for it, ZOS.

Only time will tell - but for some reason, I'm not getting my hopes up

Mureel

Mureel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

They deliberately camped outside the boss room, and ground down the boss without taking damage. This could well have taken them over 10 minutes, depending on their damage output.

They didn't do this accidentally.

They did this intentionally, to get a server first hardmode clear.

After they were banned they came crawling back saying, "no, we weren't going to use it for the bragging rights."

Right.

No sympathy here.

And even WORSE they charged people for clears for the skin like wtf. Aw hell naw. Good Riddance.

I actually hope they track any gold from those accounts and recall it from wherever anyone sent it as well!

Turelus

raj72616a wrote: »

bots did not get banned.
pvp AP exploit cheater only got temp ban..

Bot do get bans, they just come back.

Whilst I dislike the AP farm in fairness to ZOS "working with enemies in Cyrodiil" was not against the ToS until that choice. Perma-bans for it would be been unfair in that instance.

thedude33

Vapirko

Well, as long as ZOS is consistent from here on out and continues to permaban cheaters, then I see no issue with it. But then they really need to crack down on bots as well, and those people as you mention who take harrasment to ridiculous levels.

Dubhliam

Honestly, if ZOS was this determined over a year ago when the CE fiasco was rampant, then we wouldn't have had trial cheeses for over a year.

Thank Talos they finally came to their senses!

No sympathy for the cheaters.

Doctordarkspawn

So one of the brag thread posters who decided to exploit got permabanned?

Good. I see only good things from this.

Doctordarkspawn

templesus wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Now you know how we black folk feel. Meek Mill gets 2 years in prison for going on tour and breaking his parole from something that happened 6 years ago. 2 whole years in prison. The system is harsh and cruel. I personally have no sympathy for people who cheat then brag about it. Good riddance.

Bruh... WTF does being Black have to do with anything? Let alone Meek Mill? I’m Black as well (technically biracial/multiracial, but I identify as Black), and I have no idea what either of the 2 things you mentioned has to do with the topic on hand. Lol.

However, I do agree with having no sympathy for those who cheat, and boast about it. I too say, “Deuces.” to the clowns who get caught-up with that banhammer for said idiotic actions. Let them catch all types of L’s, and from multiple angles.

Black people have historically received harsh and cruel punishment for things not equating the crime. The OP feels this way about the exploit perma-ban so he can now see how we feel.

Inserting politics because some people want attention is idiotic.

Starve these idiots of oxygen.

Tandor

Chronicburn wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

To bad they werent streamers driving more players to the game. They would be allowed to blatantly break the TOS, admit it on their streams and then be invited to the test the next "chapter" before anyone else.

Some of you seem to think there is a universal code or some gauge by which your banned or your not. Im guessing those people havent been here for a while, ZOS has allowed exploits and exploiters for YEARS.

Thats a fact, and most of you know it.

Stop *** footing around, this is on ZOS 100%. You break the TOS you get banned, period.

Not here, not now, not then, not ever.

The punishment was arbitrary and vengeful. No customer deserves to be treated like that on a first offense with no warning.

ZOS clearly needs to examine carefully what a customer-business relationship is supposed to look like.

It appears they have power-mad megalomaniacs in their midst.

Except that more than a few of the users perma-banned WERE NOT FIRST TIME OFFENDERS. If anyone gets a temporary suspension, no one but ZOS and the user knows why and for how long. How many people got suspensions and claimed "I was super busy with work." "I had a lot of family stuff going on" or any other excuse.

Hopefully ZOS forwards this to MS or Sony and they can block their consoles from accessing ESO in perpetuity.

I agree that if they had been previously warned or suspended for exploiting and informed a ban could follow, then they did it anyway, a ban can be justified.

However like you said we can’t know, can we.

Although the TOS says you can’t do it, it also doesn’t say “we’re gonna kick you out and keep your money the first time you go out with some buddies you think are cool and have some fun messing with one of ZOS’s mistakes”

Oh jeez, so when you agreed to the ToS and agreed to behave regardless of ZOS' failures, you dont think people should suffer the consequences of breaking the ToS.

The punishment in this case does not fit the crime.

ZOS is guilty of abusing their power.

Grossly and intentionally exploiting a Trial to get achievement, skin, bragging rights, weapons and jewelry, and further seeling runs using exploit to gain gold (possibly even real money), iunno, perma-ban seems appropriate.

It’s all pixels. Get a life. Bragging rights? Are you seven?

You make it sound like they killed someone... “omg they got a jewelry and bragging rights omg kill them” lol omfg

By the same token, you are making it sound like they've been put on Death Row. You're right that "it's all pixels", they are simply being kicked out of a game they were caught cheating in.

Tandor

Chronicburn wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

No they are not absuing their power. they dont have to tell you what will you reciev if you break a rule. you accapted their terms.

Do not forget we are NOT owning our accunts nor even the game, we just rent them from the owner, who provide services and accepted teir terms of usage, so they dont even have to warn others to say hey i know you explioted you will reciev prema bann. because they can do that. and saing it hase been writen in the Terms it is not our fault you were lazy to ready the whole thing. And you know what they are Legaly, and complitly right to do so. even in Law terms.

However, we are still the customer.

We should expect to be treated with respect and tolerance as such.

They have very right to not tolerate and respect expliots reguardless of the fact that we are coustumers. If you break their rule and tier terms you face the writen punsihment. tahts all.

And btw it’s just a game. Let the kids sit out a bit and then let them play again. You people are crazy mean

The problem with a short suspension is that it provides no deterrence, people will think the risk worth taking. A permanent ban is much more likely to make people think twice before cheating on their fellow players - and it isn't ZOS they're cheating on, it's those players who deserve their achievements because they worked hard for them rather than exploiting to get them for no effort.

Mureel

Tandor wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

To bad they werent streamers driving more players to the game. They would be allowed to blatantly break the TOS, admit it on their streams and then be invited to the test the next "chapter" before anyone else.

Some of you seem to think there is a universal code or some gauge by which your banned or your not. Im guessing those people havent been here for a while, ZOS has allowed exploits and exploiters for YEARS.

Thats a fact, and most of you know it.

Stop *** footing around, this is on ZOS 100%. You break the TOS you get banned, period.

Not here, not now, not then, not ever.

The punishment was arbitrary and vengeful. No customer deserves to be treated like that on a first offense with no warning.

ZOS clearly needs to examine carefully what a customer-business relationship is supposed to look like.

It appears they have power-mad megalomaniacs in their midst.

Except that more than a few of the users perma-banned WERE NOT FIRST TIME OFFENDERS. If anyone gets a temporary suspension, no one but ZOS and the user knows why and for how long. How many people got suspensions and claimed "I was super busy with work." "I had a lot of family stuff going on" or any other excuse.

Hopefully ZOS forwards this to MS or Sony and they can block their consoles from accessing ESO in perpetuity.

I agree that if they had been previously warned or suspended for exploiting and informed a ban could follow, then they did it anyway, a ban can be justified.

However like you said we can’t know, can we.

Although the TOS says you can’t do it, it also doesn’t say “we’re gonna kick you out and keep your money the first time you go out with some buddies you think are cool and have some fun messing with one of ZOS’s mistakes”

Oh jeez, so when you agreed to the ToS and agreed to behave regardless of ZOS' failures, you dont think people should suffer the consequences of breaking the ToS.

The punishment in this case does not fit the crime.

ZOS is guilty of abusing their power.

Grossly and intentionally exploiting a Trial to get achievement, skin, bragging rights, weapons and jewelry, and further seeling runs using exploit to gain gold (possibly even real money), iunno, perma-ban seems appropriate.

It’s all pixels. Get a life. Bragging rights? Are you seven?

You make it sound like they killed someone... “omg they got a jewelry and bragging rights omg kill them” lol omfg

By the same token, you are making it sound like they've been put on Death Row. You're right that "it's all pixels", they are simply being kicked out of a game they were caught cheating in.

And the community hath spake. The majority do not want them here.

To all who say But CE! Well I say better late than never and also as I have had it explained to me, CE was harder to prove and there were a lot of false positives (for lack of better words) between people who lagged badly/had latency spikes and those who used CE for speed boosting.

The ultimate thing and the adjusting damage thing from using CE are different and I cannot speak to those because we didn’t talk about that side.

DPShiro

No it’s not. It’s exactly the way these things should be handled and I actually have hope again for ZoS handling future exploits.

People knew what they were doing, did it anyway, now it’s time to face the consequences.

Biro123

What surprised me here is these being experienced players around since the start of the game..

I could perhaps excuse a brand new player on their first mmo following the actions of others..

But long-term players?

Its not like there havnt been punishments in the past for this kind of thing, not only in ESO, but in every other mmo I've ever played.

In the words of treebeard, 'A wizard should know better. '

Mureel

Biro123 wrote: »

What surprised me here is these being experienced players around since the start of the game..

I could perhaps excuse a brand new player on their first mmo following the actions of others..

But long-term players?

Its not like there havnt been punishments in the past for this kind of thing, not only in ESO, but in every other mmo I've ever played.

In the words of treebeard, 'A wizard should know better. '

What? No - as I understood it was console players- forget which one or whether it was both but I want to say PS4.

Am I incorrect?

CardboardedBox

Oh, I thought this was about that glitch that let someone kill players in pve. Just killing a boss by standing somewhere they couldn't hit you doesn't sound all that bad. People are always looking for ways like that in every game. I remember a few years back in the one borderlands game, I beat the giant claptrap boss like that lol.

AzraelKrieg

Mureel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

What surprised me here is these being experienced players around since the start of the game..

I could perhaps excuse a brand new player on their first mmo following the actions of others..

But long-term players?

Its not like there havnt been punishments in the past for this kind of thing, not only in ESO, but in every other mmo I've ever played.

In the words of treebeard, 'A wizard should know better. '

What? No - as I understood it was console players- forget which one or whether it was both but I want to say PS4.

Am I incorrect?

It was probably across all three platforms but since the consoles only got the patch this past week, the issue was discussed quite frequently.

Mureel

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

What surprised me here is these being experienced players around since the start of the game..

I could perhaps excuse a brand new player on their first mmo following the actions of others..

But long-term players?

Its not like there havnt been punishments in the past for this kind of thing, not only in ESO, but in every other mmo I've ever played.

In the words of treebeard, 'A wizard should know better. '

What? No - as I understood it was console players- forget which one or whether it was both but I want to say PS4.

Am I incorrect?

It was probably across all three platforms but since the consoles only got the patch this past week, the issue was discussed quite frequently.

I’ve not heard of it from any others, so far. Just console - but I’ll keep my eyes peeled. It’s patched now- but I’m not sure it was ever exploited on PC

Mureel

CardboardedBox wrote: »

Oh, I thought this was about that glitch that let someone kill players in pve. Just killing a boss by standing somewhere they couldn't hit you doesn't sound all that bad. People are always looking for ways like that in every game. I remember a few years back in the one borderlands game, I beat the giant claptrap boss like that lol.

Except in this case: it’s a difficult achievement, and well earned by some - and these guys were not only cheating themselves but selling clears for gold to scrubs who would not have known better due to the fact that they’re not raiders and don’t know the trial full stop. So they jacked everyone they touched with this.

Daedric_NB_187

Good. Got what they deserved. Now can we move on to permanent bans for the sorry *** gap closing into keeps?

Buffler

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

Good. Got what they deserved. Now can we move on to permanent bans for the sorry *** gap closing into keeps?

Thats pvp. Zenimax couldnt care less about cheating in pvp. 3 day bans for using a 3rd party cheat engine, yet perma bans for standing somewhere a boss cant hit you.

RouDeR

My opinion is that permaban for ingame bug exploiting is a bit too harsh ,
However the punishment should be significant for example 60-100 days for that kind of exploiting . I personaly dont do much PVE and i would never risk my account for achievements and skins , however as a PVPer i used to "exploit" the Befault CP to get an edge over the others , so did i deserve ban - maybe yes but for sure not permament .

Daedric_NB_187

Link to the announcement of these permabans?

Slick_007

RouDeR wrote: »

My opinion is that permaban for ingame bug exploiting is a bit too harsh ,
However the punishment should be significant for example 60-100 days for that kind of exploiting . I personaly dont do much PVE and i would never risk my account for achievements and skins , however as a PVPer i used to "exploit" the Befault CP to get an edge over the others , so did i deserve ban - maybe yes but for sure not permament .

60-100 days of gaming for a gamer is virtually the same as permanent. so make it permanent.

"Hey! We don't serve their kind here!"
"What?"
"Your cheaters. They'll have to wait outside. We don't want them here."

AzraelKrieg

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

Link to the announcement of these permabans?

@Daedric_NB_187 here.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380210/response-to-the-veteran-hard-mode-asylum-sanctorium-trial-exploit-nov-10/p1

Mureel wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

What surprised me here is these being experienced players around since the start of the game..

I could perhaps excuse a brand new player on their first mmo following the actions of others..

But long-term players?

Its not like there havnt been punishments in the past for this kind of thing, not only in ESO, but in every other mmo I've ever played.

In the words of treebeard, 'A wizard should know better. '

What? No - as I understood it was console players- forget which one or whether it was both but I want to say PS4.

Am I incorrect?

It was probably across all three platforms but since the consoles only got the patch this past week, the issue was discussed quite frequently.

I’ve not heard of it from any others, so far. Just console - but I’ll keep my eyes peeled. It’s patched now- but I’m not sure it was ever exploited on PC

I think the reason it wasn't noticed on PC is either it didn't occur on there or because Hodor had the world first done in a matter of hours after the patch was live there was no competition to see who could do it first.

Shardan4968

Multiple mundus stones - it's exploit, it was in game, no one got ban
Sharpened Maces - it's exploit, it was in game, no one got ban
Killing boss from safe position - it's exploit, it's in game, permaban no excuses, stfu

ZOS fix your game.

chaz

I too have been here since day zero, spent countless thousands of dollars. But in the end, in digital reallity Zenimax will argue that this is not my game, it's not your game, it's their game. In the real world when we pay money, legal tender for commodities we therein legally own such.

Congress, and GAWD bless them, passed bills that you and average schmoes don't know about, which is, once you sign terms of agreement, regardless if you pay one U.S. dollar or a million dollars, you have no legal right to your game.

All this time when people go to congress to get games banned and removed from the market because of it's content, those are the ill-informed people that really should be fighting corporate in these sneaky ways to have all rights to the game you buy.

So when someone goes ahead , paid a few thousands of dollars of real money comes along and exploits a bug and cheats, get's their account perma banned. Those are the people that didn't read the ToS.

****I just read what I said and I sound pretty mean, and I apologize. Truly.****

Perma ban is pretty harsh, especially for those that really really really didn't know was taking advantage of a bug. I mean, even I could have been the victim running this trial because I think trials are fun. And , and on top of that in some trials there are gear sets that I like to farm and try out. Sometimes it's up to the very end of the trial where you get that set part.

I could have been one of those people running the trial just to get the sets, but if I unwittingly also obtained an item that I was unaware of, and was only to get it once, but actually got it multiple times, what am I supposed to think about that?

If I don't post in the forums, how would I know it was an exploit?

Or, even if I did what's the action I need to take? Post about in a forum? Report myself in game? It just seems like there is no clear way around it. Zenimax makes these decisions internally and once they made up their mind for an action , then it's set.

My only advice, is for those people to make an appeal case by case. I myself as I said paid thousands of dollars and would be very sad if someone took it away. Especially digitally. It's not like you go out and buy a couch and some guy comes to your home and tries to steal it, you can stop them. But a digital item, all it takes is one click of a button. That's it. Just one click.