The exploit ban is too harsh.

waitwhat

GodAizen wrote: »

Most of them arent first time offenders. Theyve been exploiting the maw skin for a while

Yeah this exploit isn't something you just discover or happen upon. It's something you have to had pondered beforehand.

Proof that scrub is a mindset, not a skill level.

starkerealm

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

To bad they werent streamers driving more players to the game. They would be allowed to blatantly break the TOS, admit it on their streams and then be invited to the test the next "chapter" before anyone else.

Some of you seem to think there is a universal code or some gauge by which your banned or your not. Im guessing those people havent been here for a while, ZOS has allowed exploits and exploiters for YEARS.

Thats a fact, and most of you know it.

Stop *** footing around, this is on ZOS 100%. You break the TOS you get banned, period.

Not here, not now, not then, not ever.

The punishment was arbitrary and vengeful. No customer deserves to be treated like that on a first offense with no warning.

ZOS clearly needs to examine carefully what a customer-business relationship is supposed to look like.

It appears they have power-mad megalomaniacs in their midst.

Except that more than a few of the users perma-banned WERE NOT FIRST TIME OFFENDERS. If anyone gets a temporary suspension, no one but ZOS and the user knows why and for how long. How many people got suspensions and claimed "I was super busy with work." "I had a lot of family stuff going on" or any other excuse.

Hopefully ZOS forwards this to MS or Sony and they can block their consoles from accessing ESO in perpetuity.

I agree that if they had been previously warned or suspended for exploiting and informed a ban could follow, then they did it anyway, a ban can be justified.

However like you said we can’t know, can we.

Although the TOS says you can’t do it, it also doesn’t say “we’re gonna kick you out and keep your money the first time you go out with some buddies you think are cool and have some fun messing with one of ZOS’s mistakes”

Oh jeez, so when you agreed to the ToS and agreed to behave regardless of ZOS' failures, you dont think people should suffer the consequences of breaking the ToS.

The punishment in this case does not fit the crime.

ZOS is guilty of abusing their power.

Grossly and intentionally exploiting a Trial to get achievement, skin, bragging rights, weapons and jewelry, and further seeling runs using exploit to gain gold (possibly even real money), iunno, perma-ban seems appropriate.

It’s all pixels. Get a life. Bragging rights? Are you seven?

Im the last person that cares about e-peen measurement. Others do, good for them. If its all pixels, why do you care about what happens to other people's accounts?

Because that’s their rl time and $$ they put into the game.
Plus if it happened to them it could happen to anyone ... wrong place wrong time. I guess maybe you are just the holy saint of eso though ... sorry

Then, maybe, they should have been a bit more circumspect about choosing to violate the terms of service.

I know, some kids did that before, and weren't punished. That doesn't mystically make it okay.

I wonder when the perma-bans for using multi-craft, lazy writ, potion maker, fish filet, etc. will be handed out? They are directly against the TOS you know - as confirmed by ZOS. So no complaints then, right?

? and how exactly are any of the addons you mentioned against ToS? none of them give advantages over other players or are exploits, they are, in essence QoL improvements that should have been in the game from day one, but due to ZoS in its infinite wisdom, they had to be player created.

Because they all have automated functions. Well, okay, I don't think potion maker does, but Multi-craft, lazy writ, and fish filet all have automated functions.

Multi-craft will keep producing multiple items off of one command (so, automated).

Lazy Writ Crafter will automate crafting items at a station for your daily crafting writs (and master writs) with some limitations. (It can't craft alchemy or provisioning items.)

Fish Filet will automatically keep skinning fish once you start it until you run out.

All of these are, technically, in violation of the automation terms of service. Now, the comment on the boards that I remember is that the real threshold the devs care about is if your automation can run while AFK. If you're at the keyboard, it's "fine." But, that said, the way the ToS is actually written, all of these are verboten for the same reason you can't run a bot.

idk

OP, in his/he OP, seems to be forgetting they did not just exploit They were stupid enough to brag about it in social media and some took their exploit a huge step further in exploiting the exploit when they enriched themselves in game by selling clears with their little exploit.

If there was ever means for a perm ban then this is a great example. Those behind it are certainly the type of players that look for exploits. They did not come about this by accident and would very much likely do it again. Some got caught up in it by being friends with the cheats and buying clears, but as they say, C'Est la Vie.

Dysprosium

I don't think the perma ban is too harsh. The exploit was exploited over and over again for benefit knowingly.

Let's say someone bought an expensive item and walked out the store and when they got home found out the anti theft device had been left on the item but it did not trigger the store alarms to go off at the door. That's no issue- but then if you go into the store and start funneling the merchandise out knowing the anti theft devices aren't working you are knowingly violating an exploit and breaking the rules/law.

These people found an exploit and if it helped them clear- fine. But then using that to cheat the system over and over again for their own benefit- that deserves severe punishment. It also let's others know ZOS is serious so less players risk taking a chance by exploiting.

eso_lags

Samadhi wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

... If one of you gets caught in a stupid exploit and gets perma banned you will be crying about it too.
...

Have been caught and banned for exploiting in a previous game
glitching through a wall to farm exp and special gear drops without mobs being able to damage me back

did not cry about it
lost a lot of progress
and learned an important lesson

hopefully the exploiters in this situation do as well
as was my reply to the individual who posted trying to take singular blame for the situation in exchange for the rest being unbanned
"hopefully this is both your first and last time exploiting, rather than just your last time"

Uh huh.... Now in that game you speak of, did the devs set a precedent of banning and un banning actual cheaters using outside programs to cheat at the game? And then later did they ban you on your first offense for that exploit?

Every situation is different.. Just like zos said, they are taking this situation more seriously because of how hard the skin/achievement is to get.. The problem is a lot of us disagree with that. Just because its hard to get doesn't mean you perma ban 1st time offenders and say "we will not be looking at over turning these bans" when in the past you have literally perma banned and then un banned players who literally cheated at the game!! Not to mention the fact there is a dozen other exploits that have been going around over the last year that had people ENDLESSLY doing them with ZERO repercussions!! You can say that these guys exploited and thats it.. Sure, fine.. But a lot of us dont think that randomly picking one exploit and saying "hey this one is worse, so0o this time we are going to do something about it and BAN THEM ALL"..

For example, thousands of players have been exploiting maw, for loot, for a loonngg time.. No bans (or very minimal).. Tons of people are running around with exploited maw skins.. No bans (or minimal).. These exploits went on forever (and i think the maw one still is) and nothing happened.. No fix. No bans. Idk, i just think zos could have used this huge blow up in a better way.. Un ban any 1st time offenders, give them a one month ban and perma ban their character that glitched the boss.. Then moving forward everyone knows (and they do now) that exploits are just as bad as using a cheat program to cheat at the game, at least in zenimaxs eyes. I think its wrong to decide that this is the one, this is the big one, where everyone catches a perma ban..

If i were to ask any of you on this forum what is worse, cheat engine or an exploiter? What is worse for the game? Stupid people using a glitch to get a skin, or people cheating at the game to disrupt the entire economy or pvp zone... I think most of you would say cheat engine/cheaters.. So dont un ban people for that and then give others no appeal.. there is either an appeal process or there isnt, thats how it should be.. Again, this is ultimately zenimaxs decision.. At the end of the day we are at their mercy and all we can do is give our opinions on these issues in as decent of a way as possible.. Personally, i would like to see more constancy, and i mean with bans and appeals..

Also, on a slightly different but related issue.....

And personally, i think it all comes back to alcast reporting it to them.. I have seen zos cater to streamers/youtubers many times.. MANY times. On the forums, blobs posts and gets a DM in minutes when he cant log in, i (and others) post the same thing manny times over 5 days and get silence..

Same thing when certain streamers post about glitches on here, it becomes a big thing while others have no attention.. Not to mention some of the streamers attitudes about how they will not be banned.. Syphers ban and then being unbanned (1st time offender ).. Again i like these streamers/youtubers, im not blaming alcast in any way, and i do actually like the people at zos.. They seem like good people.. I just personally think that they probably took it very serious because he probably sent them a message over it.. I could be wrong, again my opinion... Also I think that they need to stop catering to streamers and doing things like these bans.. If its a cheat, if its an exploit ban people.. If you want to have an appeal process for some bans then dont go and say " we will not over turn these bans".. Just treat everyone the same..

VaranisArano

It has very little to do with streamers or Alcast and very much to do with these people nerfing ZOS's brand new shiny trial as the new DLC dropped.

AbysmalGhul

ookami007 wrote: »

How can one REALLY know what is not intended?

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but playing a trial on the hardest mode and finding a way to finish it without taking any damage is hardly a blurred line of what was intended.

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

[Snip]

Be sure to inform your friends that filing a fraudulent claim will indeed land them in hot water . Could you imagine? A gamer with no survival instincts, street cred, and muscle, sharing life with a cell mate named Bubba? Bubba's hair needs to be braided. Bubba's clothes needs to be folded. Bubba wants your cornbread and your cake 0_o......think about that.....Go ahead, stick it to the man for 3 years of claimed "fraudulent" charges ....I know Bubba doesn't mind

[Edited for quote]

Kozato

Sorry to be the oblivious one in all this but I don't intend on going through 10 pages to find out. Could someone tell me what these players did to get a ban? what is this exploit exactly that they used? I've been out of touch from the game for a while and would like to know. And no I don't want to take advantage of it.

Balamoor

Nope I honestly hope they just didn't deactivate the accounts I truly hope they deleted them and banned the individual Keys

Runs

@Kozato
Response to the Veteran Hard Mode Asylum Sanctorium Trial Exploit - Nov. 10

Cpt_Teemo

lordrichter wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Be sure to inform your friends to file a claim of fraud against zenimax with their bank. (You can go back 3 years worth of ALL transactions.) They will get a full refund. Or they can sue zenimax. And they will win.

85 people sueing a company that has literally over hundreds of thousands of players really?

Millions. It would not stop with ZOS. ZeniMax Media has much deeper pockets than ZOS.

Yeah guess you can't attack the body unless you cut the head off first, doh.

Megabear

Not. At. All.

Ashtaris

smacx250 wrote: »

I wonder when the perma-bans for using multi-craft, lazy writ, potion maker, fish filet, etc. will be handed out? They are directly against the TOS you know - as confirmed by ZOS. So no complaints then, right?

LOL - Please explain to me how Lazy Writ Crafter will give me a combat advantage in PVP, PVE, or any other ESO gameplay? And of course, you do have a link to the confirmation that using it is against the TOS?

Cpt_Teemo

Ashtaris wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

I wonder when the perma-bans for using multi-craft, lazy writ, potion maker, fish filet, etc. will be handed out? They are directly against the TOS you know - as confirmed by ZOS. So no complaints then, right?

LOL - Please explain to me how Lazy Writ Crafter will give me a combat advantage in PVP, PVE, or any other ESO gameplay? And of course, you do have a link to the confirmation that using it is against the TOS?

Even though the ToS does indeed say no automative type of addons / 3rd parties they did claim that it's safe use for just a small bit of time per character, IE: Lazy writ.

It's just a time saver, the people who exploited the fight were not only exploiting the gear it dropped, but also selling it to the public for actual currency using the method they did.

TheBonesXXX

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Normally you wouldn’t hear me say anything like this but personally I think the permanent ban is much too harsh. Especially for the first time offenders. I know some of the people who have done the exploit personally and they are very dedicated players. Some of them have been here since day 1 and spent thousands of dollars on content for this game. And to be banned for using a glitch that exhists in the programming may be wrong but a permanent ban is far too harsh. Now I don’t pve because iv got no interest but now iv seen some longtime players get the boot for something that while morally wrong isn’t nearly as severe as some of the chats going on in game. Iv seen people get harassed to the point where people even make Facebook accounts to harass players but they never got banned. Personally I would give a 1 month ban. Removal of ALL items and the achievement and skin. At least then the punishment is severe as to make a point not to do it again but doesn’t completely destroy someone’s hard work. While it may have taken zos months to make their trial. Some players have well over 2 years invested in a character. I don’t know about you but unless your actually causing someone harm then I think a permanent ban is too harsh and I feel zos should send a warning and let them know that the next offense is the end. But that’s just me.

Zenimax should have taken a hardline stance on exploits a long time ago.

Tandor

itzTJ wrote: »

Every situation is different.. Just like zos said, they are taking this situation more seriously because of how hard the skin/achievement is to get..

They also based it (critically in my view) on the fact that this was not the kind of bug you could accidentally chance upon and not realise you were exploiting until it was too late. Rather, this bug was only triggered by several specific and deliberate actions being performed and then it was only capable of being exploited by calculated means involving the gradual and lengthy process of wearing down a boss mob while knowing full well that you were taking no damage whatsoever.

Sure they wanted to look after those who had worked hard to get the skin/achievement legitimately, but they also wanted to act against those who had knowingly and deliberately with calculated aforethought triggered and then exploited this bug for extensive personal gain.

ZOS_KatP

Hi all,

We've removed a few comments that were off-topic and started to derail the thread. Please be sure all posts align with our forum rules and are constructive to the discussion at hand.

Thanks.

THWIP71

Convicted criminals rarely agree with their punishments....

A_G_G_R_O

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

How can one REALLY know what is not intended?

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but playing a trial on the hardest mode and finding a way to finish it without taking any damage is hardly a blurred line of what was intended.

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

[Snip]

Be sure to inform your friends that filing a fraudulent claim will indeed land them in hot water . Could you imagine? A gamer with no survival instincts, street cred, and muscle, sharing life with a cell mate named Bubba? Bubba's hair needs to be braided. Bubba's clothes needs to be folded. Bubba wants your cornbread and your cake 0_o......think about that.....Go ahead, stick it to the man for 3 years of claimed "fraudulent" charges ....I know Bubba doesn't mind

[Edited for quote]

Sharing Life sentence for a fraudulent charge case. Unlikely. I once refunded my entire wow sub plus original game purchase after I clearly was perma banned and claims against me were dropped. Because it wasn't worth the court $ to make me pay a charge back. Jesus what a zealot tho, I respect your imagination and tenacity.

eso_lags

Tandor wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

Every situation is different.. Just like zos said, they are taking this situation more seriously because of how hard the skin/achievement is to get..

They also based it (critically in my view) on the fact that this was not the kind of bug you could accidentally chance upon and not realise you were exploiting until it was too late. Rather, this bug was only triggered by several specific and deliberate actions being performed and then it was only capable of being exploited by calculated means involving the gradual and lengthy process of wearing down a boss mob while knowing full well that you were taking no damage whatsoever.

Sure they wanted to look after those who had worked hard to get the skin/achievement legitimately, but they also wanted to act against those who had knowingly and deliberately with calculated aforethought triggered and then exploited this bug for extensive personal gain.

Ya @Tandor im not so sure about that.. So they banned like 85 people.. Im guessing a good amount of those people were just along for the ride... We've already heard about one person who came in towards the end and wasnt in chat and didnt really know what was going on.. Someone who a few people said the same thing about. Also, is it possible that the first group who went in there just stumbled onto it? and decided to kill him while he (the boss) was where he was? And then some people from that group showed others?

This is the problem with a blanket ban and not looking at some individual cases, and again saying that you will not look at reverting the bans when in the past you have reverted bans for much much worse.. If i had to guess i would probably say at least a few people caught in the bans were not fully aware of what they were doing.. This is also the other issue about perma banning 1st time offenders because obviously if you play for 2-3 years and dont ever do anything wrong you are probably a decent person/player..

And ya, i dont doubt that most of them deliberately did it to get the skin.. Even still 1st time offenders should not be perma banned, but i think its more worse for the few that didnt really understand what was going on.. Imagine this, you get called into the trial by some friends, you get in by the last minute, you get the skin and everything, and then you get perma banned.. But that aside I really doubt that many of them thought what they were doing was malicious.. (aside from the ones trying to sell it, which is even dumber than doing the exploit in the first place) I mean the boss gets stuck in the wall and you kill him, i doubt a lot of them thought it was a huge deal. Remember some people are not the smartest and do stupid things, thats why i believe in a second chance, but not a third.

kevlarto_ESO

Banning cheaters and exploiters can never be to harsh if it was me they would never play another Elder scrolls game in their life LOL But it is Zos a little slap on the hand and some candy and back to the game, if you tell us your sorry for cheating

JamilaRaj

Well, at least the rich should have option to buy unban for 50,000 crowns. Or permanent unban for 500,000.

Cpt_Teemo

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Well, at least the rich should have option to buy unban for 50,000 crowns. Or permanent unban for 500,000.

That wouldn't work cause they still make more income from the rest of the game, they won't risk hundreds of millions of crowns for a one time purchase of 500,000

MilwaukeeScott

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

phontom78kiss

For every action there is a reaction...everything that is worth it takes time...when you get on the fast lane and it catches up with you, no remorse for your eyes were not closed nor hands tied....

Well all the above are wonderful cliches which says to know the risks and be ready to accept the consequences of your actions. Instead of justifying the rational of participating with a poor choice, those that got banned should accept that they did wrong and pled there case. Zos might forgive and give a lighter sentence but it’s sad that once people start cheating, it’s hard behavior to stop..

Joy_Division

I haven't followed this 10 page thread, mostly because there is nothing in this ten day thread that can somehow convince me that people who knowingly cheated, knowingly bragged about it, knowingly tried to exploit said cheat by selling runs, and knowingly continued to cheat over and over are somehow deserving of sympathy.

They may be nice people out of game, donate to charity, help the elder carrying groceries, etc., but their behavior in game was reprehensible and they sooner they understand that, then the sooner their conduct in the gaming community will approach that conduct away from the game.

starkerealm

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

How can one REALLY know what is not intended?

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but playing a trial on the hardest mode and finding a way to finish it without taking any damage is hardly a blurred line of what was intended.

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

[Snip]

Be sure to inform your friends that filing a fraudulent claim will indeed land them in hot water . Could you imagine? A gamer with no survival instincts, street cred, and muscle, sharing life with a cell mate named Bubba? Bubba's hair needs to be braided. Bubba's clothes needs to be folded. Bubba wants your cornbread and your cake 0_o......think about that.....Go ahead, stick it to the man for 3 years of claimed "fraudulent" charges ....I know Bubba doesn't mind

[Edited for quote]

Sharing Life sentence for a fraudulent charge case. Unlikely. I once refunded my entire wow sub plus original game purchase after I clearly was perma banned and claims against me were dropped. Because it wasn't worth the court $ to make me pay a charge back. Jesus what a zealot tho, I respect your imagination and tenacity.

You got lucky. If Blizzard or your bank (or Credit Card company) had felt inclined to, they could have referred you to the DA's office.

I mean, I can relate, to an extent. I once reversed about six months of AOL charges (because I'd never authorized them in the first place.) But, attempting to reverse charges you legitimately made can open you up to criminal prosecution.

Also, trying this now is a bad idea. If you pulled that back in '06 or '07, cool. But, now there's actually case law saying that if you get banned from an MMO, you're out of luck.

JKorr

itzTJ wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

Every situation is different.. Just like zos said, they are taking this situation more seriously because of how hard the skin/achievement is to get..

They also based it (critically in my view) on the fact that this was not the kind of bug you could accidentally chance upon and not realise you were exploiting until it was too late. Rather, this bug was only triggered by several specific and deliberate actions being performed and then it was only capable of being exploited by calculated means involving the gradual and lengthy process of wearing down a boss mob while knowing full well that you were taking no damage whatsoever.

Sure they wanted to look after those who had worked hard to get the skin/achievement legitimately, but they also wanted to act against those who had knowingly and deliberately with calculated aforethought triggered and then exploited this bug for extensive personal gain.

Ya @Tandor im not so sure about that.. So they banned like 85 people.. Im guessing a good amount of those people were just along for the ride... We've already heard about one person who came in towards the end and wasnt in chat and didnt really know what was going on.. Someone who a few people said the same thing about. Also, is it possible that the first group who went in there just stumbled onto it? and decided to kill him while he (the boss) was where he was? And then some people from that group showed others?

This is the problem with a blanket ban and not looking at some individual cases, and again saying that you will not look at reverting the bans when in the past you have reverted bans for much much worse.. If i had to guess i would probably say at least a few people caught in the bans were not fully aware of what they were doing.. This is also the other issue about perma banning 1st time offenders because obviously if you play for 2-3 years and dont ever do anything wrong you are probably a decent person/player..

And ya, i dont doubt that most of them deliberately did it to get the skin.. Even still 1st time offenders should not be perma banned, but i think its more worse for the few that didnt really understand what was going on.. Imagine this, you get called into the trial by some friends, you get in by the last minute, you get the skin and everything, and then you get perma banned.. But that aside I really doubt that many of them thought what they were doing was malicious.. (aside from the ones trying to sell it, which is even dumber than doing the exploit in the first place) I mean the boss gets stuck in the wall and you kill him, i doubt a lot of them thought it was a huge deal. Remember some people are not the smartest and do stupid things, thats why i believe in a second chance, but not a third.

You really love that line "maybe they just stumbled onto it", don't you. And you also ignore Jessica's posts about it. All the dev/official posts in this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380210/response-to-the-veteran-hard-mode-asylum-sanctorium-trial-exploit-nov-10/p1

Hi everyone,

We checked in with our Support team this morning and got confirmation that we have not overturned any of the bans we issued for this exploit. All of the accounts we banned for exploiting this bug are still banned, and we intend to keep it that way. The individuals who took advantage of this exploit had to do some very specific, deliberate things to make the bug happen, then spend time very slowly working down the boss from where he could not attack them. It was not a situation where someone accidentally stumbled upon a bug and used it without knowing what they were doing.

Also ignoring that after they found how to do the very specific deliberate actions, they not only told others, charged other players millions in gold to carry them through the trial, but posted video where they urged as many people to use the exploit as possible, apparently saying "If everyone does it they can't ban everybody." That does NOT even give the shadow of a hope of a hint that it was "stumbled onto it" accidentally. You might have also missed the reply you received in that other thread:

We hear you, @itzTJ, and we didn't make this decision lightly. This particular exploit and the repercussions were particularly severe (unlocking an extremely difficult-to-get achievement and reward.) We also recognize that we have gone too easy on cheaters/exploiters in the past. (But not bots - bots get nuked on the first offense.) We're taking a stance to crack down harder, especially when the exploit is as deliberate and severe as this one was.

If they are actually going to start cracking down on exploits, cheating, breaking the TOS, then it has to start somewhere. ZOS picked the point they are going to start a more hardline approach from, it seems.

eso_lags

@JKorr What do you mean? Obviously someone stumbled onto it the first time but no after that of course it was deliberate.. If you have seen the video so you have seen how its done.. Also it was one video by one person... Regardless, only one person has to walk in the room and if that person died while the other players were waiting to go in, then it would bug. Then im sure they figured out the skill that would work on the boss who was then stuck, its a common skill on any stam builds bar... But like i said thats just the first group who found it, its possible they stumbled onto it, but of course its deliberate after that.

Look all i was saying about the situation is that i doubt that ALL of the 85 people there thought what they were doing was malicious or game breaking like some past issues... And yes i have seen every post that you're talking about, you must have missed the reply i gave jessica after her post. Ive seen it, I understand where they are coming from.. All I was saying is personally i think its wrong.. You dont set a precedent of having an appeals system, un banning ACTUAL cheaters, un banning exploiters in the past, and then now you say we will not be overturning these bans or giving them an appeal...I know people who still play with multiple strikes on their account for some bad stuff (some for exploits), but nope just blanket ban all these people in this situation because its a hard achievement..

Now riddle me this.. These guys broke the rules, they broke the TOS.. They used an exploit, so what makes them any different form the people who have done stuff like this in the past and done MUCH worse and been un banned? If its like you say, and zos wants to start cracking down, it should have been on repeat offenders and actual cheating software (and bots of course) not 1st time offenders of an exploit... They can say its a hard achievement but i think cheating is more detrimental to the game then a stupid skin glitch.. The point is they have an appeal process to go through.. But when it comes to these guys NOPE no appeal.. If you can see why thats wrong and inconsistent then theres no use in talking about it anymore.. Even for the sake of debate.

JasonSilverSpring

I think many agree ZOS has been too lax in the past. The only way to change that is to start being much more firm, as they are here. They cannot undo the past but they can make an example of these exploiters (which also makes them cheaters) to send a clear message.

These exploiters just got unlucky with their timing, but that is the risk of using exploits.

Hopefully people will think harder in the future about using exploits or cheat engines. And hopefully ZOS will continue this tougher stance and transparency.