Look at how many people hate the appearance of vampirism!!!

mirta000b16_ESO

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

We draw the line at gameplay mechanics being separate from RP ones.

And if anything will create a "homogenised gloop of matter" it will be mandatory visual skins (like vampirism). Everyone and their mother is a vampire because of the benefits it provides. It kills aesthetic diversity.

JackWest92 wrote: »

We draw the line at the combat. What you 'compare it with' affects the combat system and class design. What skin our character has, doesnt.

However mechanics here ARE NOT separate from appearance. You could have drawn that line all you wanted to before vampires released, but they have been released for years now and appearance goes with your so much needed character optimization.
I am NOT a vampire. I'm NOT going to be a vampire on any of my DPS or healer classes. If everyone and their mother is crying over 2% that badly, that is THEIR personal choice and they also have a choice to NOT do this.

And Jack I do think that you should drop this. Insulting your fellow players, writing things like "drugs have softened your brain" or "drinking all that ale in the Inn obviously made you too dumb" will not help your cause in any way.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

We draw the line at gameplay mechanics being separate from RP ones.

And if anything will create a "homogenised gloop of matter" it will be mandatory visual skins (like vampirism). Everyone and their mother is a vampire because of the benefits it provides. It kills aesthetic diversity.

JackWest92 wrote: »

We draw the line at the combat. What you 'compare it with' affects the combat system and class design. What skin our character has, doesnt.

However mechanics here ARE NOT separate from appearance. You could have drawn that line all you wanted to before vampires released, but they have been released for years now and appearance goes with your so much needed character optimization.
I am NOT a vampire. I'm NOT going to be a vampire on any of my DPS or healer classes. If everyone and their mother is crying over 2% that badly, that is THEIR personal choice and they also have a choice to NOT do this.

And Jack I do think that you should drop this. Insulting your fellow players, writing things like "drugs have softened your brain" or "drinking all that ale in the Inn obviously made you too dumb" will not help your cause in any way.

And calling me 'ignorant' and 'entitled' 'kid', which is what i have received here for asking the current system to be improved, will help who exactly?

Also, we know thats how the system work. That vamp is connected. We simply request it to be improved, and explain why and how that could be achieved. All you do is to come here call us bad names aswell and tell us to deal with how the current system is. If thats how everyone was doing, we would still be living in caves, killing each other with sticks over a dead rabbit

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Alexandrious wrote: »

@Gandrhulf_Harbard

Hmm....annoying end line at the end of all his posts....not knowing what it really means.......

I saw something similar somewhere....


wait......

*Looks at ToR forums*

Darthspuds is that you?

@Alexandrious

Yes, that is me.

And I do know EXACTLY what my Sign Off means, I've been using it since I sent my very first e-mail gods know how long ago.

It means I wish you "all the best" in whatever you do, even if we have disagreed over a specific issue.

It would be more than a little naive, and significantly arrogant of me to expect to go through life with everyone sharing my opinions. However, I see no reason that I should wish ill of someone just because we disagree over something.

So the "All The Best" is a sign off, to indicate that even if we have just, possibly vehemently, disagreed over a specific issue I hold no grudges, and think no ill of people because of that.

My concern is that so few people, here or at SWTOR forums, seem capable of understanding that is even possible.

All The Best

JackWest92

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

@Gandrhulf_Harbard

Hmm....annoying end line at the end of all his posts....not knowing what it really means.......

I saw something similar somewhere....


wait......

*Looks at ToR forums*

Darthspuds is that you?

@Alexandrious

Yes, that is me.

And I do know EXACTLY what my Sign Off means, I've been using it since I sent my very first e-mail gods know how long ago.

It means I wish you "all the best" in whatever you do, even if we have disagreed over a specific issue.

It would be more than a little naive, and significantly arrogant of me to expect to go through life with everyone sharing my opinions. However, I see no reason that I should wish ill of someone just because we disagree over something.

So the "All The Best" is a sign off, to indicate that even if we have just, possibly vehemently, disagreed over a specific issue I hold no grudges, and think no ill of people because of that.

My concern is that so few people, here or at SWTOR forums, seem capable of understanding that is even possible.

All The Best

Please excuse any midunderstanding from our side, but there are plenty of trolls on these forums, that intentionally trigger people to provoke negative reactions. In some of the posts you may appear to be similar to thaf. Might not be the case, but there is no way to know for sure, so if thats not what you are doing, again, excuse any hasty conclusions

Feanor

I‘m baffled that this warrants a 9 page thread with over 200 comments. But then I remember I’m in the ESO forum and then I’m not surprised at all any longer.

JackWest92

Feanor wrote: »

I‘m baffled that this warrants a 9 page thread with over 200 comments. But then I remember I’m in the ESO forum and then I’m not surprised at all any longer.

Off topic but related to what you say. I was also baffled once to see 700cp plus mag sorc and stamblade in dungeon(i was healing) doing half the dps that my 300 cp at that time, stam sorc can pull on herself. I was also baffled to see 200 cp stamblades in Cyrodiil playing better than some 1k cp plus ones...but hey. Dont expect much, and you will never be surprised

Baconlad

I used to be angry i had to change my look for mist form...but after 2 years on my main, i have fully embraced the dark side, even come up with a sweet little backstory XD.

It would however be neat if skins reset it. Like ok you dont like the look of vamp...go farm a skin and go ham. Currently some of the skins arent even noticable...which is sad...

Darkstorne

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

Y'all are wild. I can't believe that people who hate being vampires are vampires because, what, it's 2% more efficient than not being one? I'm sure you could be 2% better if you just spent more time practicing instead of fretting 16 paragraphs at a time over stuff you don't like about the choice you made.

My Templar is not a vampire and doesn't have problems with end game content. It's obviously NOT mandatory because I am over here doing the end game content without it. Look at me go.

Min-maxing means optimizing your build to be the best it can possibly be. That's only possible if you're a vampire.

It's not mandatory. It's 100% doable without it. I am literally doing it right now.

Doable =/= optimised

Okay? Then live with being ugly. You're choosing it. Don't make it sound like you don't have a choice. Be ugly, be a few percentage points better. Or don't. You're not missing out on anything in the game, it is doable without it.

You are missing out on being optimised.

And you are missing out on being pretty.

Where do we draw the line on this? I want to be a healer that doesn't have a destro back bar for Elemental Drain, but I have to for "optimisation". Maybe all weapon skills should be used on all weapons now? Maybe all class skills should be used by any class? Maybe all races should meld together into one homogenised gloop of matter that can fart out all skills and spells in a single instant cast cacophony of chaos. That would be optimised imo.

We draw the line at gameplay mechanics being separate from RP ones.

And if anything will create a "homogenised gloop of matter" it will be mandatory visual skins (like vampirism). Everyone and their mother is a vampire because of the benefits it provides. It kills aesthetic diversity.

Everyone and their mother? I'm not a vampire specifically because of the visual trade-off. I know plenty of players who aren't because of how the weaknesses can be exploited in PVP. It has its strengths, and it has its weaknesses. Pretty awesome to see some of those being the visual design, which is a strength OR a weakness depending on your point of view. But arguing for a toggle on the visuals is like asking for a Werewolf ult that doesn't actually turn you into a werewolf because that visual side of the skillset doesn't appeal to you. It's only visual, right? Why should it matter? But it matters because visuals are important to people, and because becoming a vampire or werewolf is as much a visual choice as a skillset choice. You're sacrificing something for that power. That's a big part of the vampire/werewolf fantasy.

Verbal_Earthworm

equal rights for werewolves

let them use all the ww skills without transforming

that would only be fair, right?

JackWest92

Darkstorne wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

Y'all are wild. I can't believe that people who hate being vampires are vampires because, what, it's 2% more efficient than not being one? I'm sure you could be 2% better if you just spent more time practicing instead of fretting 16 paragraphs at a time over stuff you don't like about the choice you made.

My Templar is not a vampire and doesn't have problems with end game content. It's obviously NOT mandatory because I am over here doing the end game content without it. Look at me go.

Min-maxing means optimizing your build to be the best it can possibly be. That's only possible if you're a vampire.

It's not mandatory. It's 100% doable without it. I am literally doing it right now.

Doable =/= optimised

Okay? Then live with being ugly. You're choosing it. Don't make it sound like you don't have a choice. Be ugly, be a few percentage points better. Or don't. You're not missing out on anything in the game, it is doable without it.

You are missing out on being optimised.

And you are missing out on being pretty.

Where do we draw the line on this? I want to be a healer that doesn't have a destro back bar for Elemental Drain, but I have to for "optimisation". Maybe all weapon skills should be used on all weapons now? Maybe all class skills should be used by any class? Maybe all races should meld together into one homogenised gloop of matter that can fart out all skills and spells in a single instant cast cacophony of chaos. That would be optimised imo.

We draw the line at gameplay mechanics being separate from RP ones.

And if anything will create a "homogenised gloop of matter" it will be mandatory visual skins (like vampirism). Everyone and their mother is a vampire because of the benefits it provides. It kills aesthetic diversity.

That's a big part of the vampire/werewolf fantasy.

Exactly. RP. Combat enhancement, which you MUST have if you wanna do vet hm trials as DD, that forces the RP part of the game to you, is not a good game design. Sure, let the RPers have their 'fun' but if i hate it dont force it on me so i can play the highest content of the game. Explain to me why sacrifising character strength for 'cosmetics' is good for ANY MMO? Specially considering how both are the main parts of such games, alongside your precious RP, which you can have in any solo player RPG game, without enforcing your preferences on others

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

Specially considering how both are the main parts of such games, alongside your precious RP, which you can have in any solo player RPG game, without enforcing your preferences on others

Who RPs alone?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

JackWest92 wrote: »

Exactly. RP. Combat enhancement, which you MUST have if you wanna do vet hm trials as DD

I refuse to accept that all DPSers at end game, doing Vet Trials etc are Vampires.

That is simply not the case.

All The Best

Verbal_Earthworm

the simple solution would be to nerf the vampire skill line,

putting it in the same optional place as the werewolf skill line and forcing the devs to rebalance endgame content accordingly.

then the only people who played vampires would be those who really wanted to and didn't feel "forced" into it.

JackWest92

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

Exactly. RP. Combat enhancement, which you MUST have if you wanna do vet hm trials as DD

I refuse to accept that all DPSers at end game, doing Vet Trials etc are Vampires.

That is simply not the case.

All The Best

You know that how? Have you tested sustain with and without vamp? Keep in mind most hm will require every tiny dps you can squeeeze, heavy attacking occcasionally for magicka/stamina, dropping your dps by half is smth you want to avoid

Merlin13KAGL

Minyassa wrote: »

If we actually get to be vampires and look like normal humans, then I am also going to expect to get to be one race and look like another. I hate the way orcs look but they are BiS for speed so I've had to accept that either I can be fast or not look like an orc. But if there's a way for me to not look like an orc (without covering up with a mask or helmet because pssh) and still have an orc's racial passives then I am ALL ABOUT THAT. So yeah, let's do this with vampires and then demand it with player races too!

@Minyassa, except a better analogy would be that you initially made a character of *insert race of your choosing* and by making a choice in game (quest ,RP , or min/max purposes) your character then looked like and Orc, more and more the further your stages progressed.

Simply put they could put a client side only toggle, so all the 'hiding in PvP' arguments, etc wouldn't apply. Player sees the visuals they worked hard on at character creation, no one on the 'outside' is affected in any way. There are other visual effects they could add, auras and whatnot.

That, or they could offer costumes in crown store, or skins, that would offer alternate looks. It's assanine that a 'disguise' you can pick up at level 3 will mask it, but a $50 crown store costume will not. They're losing money by not having it function this way.

For all the astute individuals offering up "Just don't do it," of course that works. But again, if someone's there to min/max, which I'm guessing 90% or better are, they'll give up aesthetics long before giving up the bonuses involved.

A smart marketing group would find a way to capitalize on this.

Arwaut

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

A smart marketing group would find a way to capitalize on this.

Absolutly, but we have to wait for a ZOS solution

JackWest92

Arwaut wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

A smart marketing group would find a way to capitalize on this.

Absolutly, but we have to wait for a ZOS solution

Yes, so i see nothing wrong with people coming here, offering zos solutions about it

SodanTok

If you hate looking bad yet you play as vampire anyway there is different issue. Looks like being human (and looking good) is not good enough so this is pretty much balance problem.

Raudgrani

Have a vampire trial tank (for the self healing ability alone, haven't even tried any other ability). But that's about it. I really don't like those misty things. I've even dedicated my main weapon enchant in Cyrodiil to them, the Prismatic Onslaugh enchant. It works pretty well. I'm sort of a vampire hunter. ;-D

Kanar

Verbal_Earthworm wrote: »

the simple solution would be to nerf the vampire skill line

This. Nerf vampire to shut these whiners up. Anytime you have a thread full of people crying and whining because of a "must-have" skill or skill line, then you know a nerf is in order.

Ozstryker

Choose to be a vampire... you're choosing to embrace all the effects, the good the bad and the ugly!
Can't have any one without the others.. this is the only "fact" here.... the rest is 9 pages of opinion!



Just my 2 cents

All the best...

BrightOblivion

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

We draw the line at gameplay mechanics being separate from RP ones.

And if anything will create a "homogenised gloop of matter" it will be mandatory visual skins (like vampirism). Everyone and their mother is a vampire because of the benefits it provides. It kills aesthetic diversity.

JackWest92 wrote: »

We draw the line at the combat. What you 'compare it with' affects the combat system and class design. What skin our character has, doesnt.

However mechanics here ARE NOT separate from appearance. You could have drawn that line all you wanted to before vampires released, but they have been released for years now and appearance goes with your so much needed character optimization.
I am NOT a vampire. I'm NOT going to be a vampire on any of my DPS or healer classes. If everyone and their mother is crying over 2% that badly, that is THEIR personal choice and they also have a choice to NOT do this.

And Jack I do think that you should drop this. Insulting your fellow players, writing things like "drugs have softened your brain" or "drinking all that ale in the Inn obviously made you too dumb" will not help your cause in any way.

The problem I have with the first statement is that it's not true in this case, and I know it's not. How do I know it's not true? Simple. I downloaded the PTS (not making my live toon a vamp just for this, and I already wanted to do some appearance tweaks and such, so PTS gave me that opportunity without forking over money to fix unintended errors), and I bought the vampire thing (1 crown, woo!). Boom. Instant vamp.

Grab my passives, use mist form repeatedly, and I'm stage 4. Bleach white skin, incredibly veiny, and tattoo and body paint faded. Then, I take a skin - Amberplasm, maybe- and put it on. My appearance changes, but I can still use vampire skills and vampire passives. Appearance change + Gameplay the same = the two are separated in this case. Right?

__________

People are hyperbolically comparing it to argonian tails or werewolf transformation and going "It's exactly the same thing!" Once again, though, this isn't the case. The major difference is that every disguise and every skin hides the appearance of vampirism - they just either add their own effects (skins) or also hide every appearance addition made after character creation (disguises). Unless I'm mistaken, none of these alter the appearance or performance of a transformed werewolf (I don't think Raz's high elf earring or the goblin gem do, but have never tried it), and, with the exception of the ring and the gem, which are really more like polymorphs in that they make everyone look the same regardless of race or gender, none of them get rid of your argonian tail. Even the skeleton polymorphs keep it.

In essence, what those asking for a skin are saying is "Hey, ZOS, take this old skin (Amberplasm), change the color of the splotches (from orange to skin tone) and release it as a new skin," none of which they haven't already done. Yes, it hides vampirism, but so do other skins. This one just wouldn't have additional visual effects of its own.

No new ground is being broken. No mind-boggling precedent is being set.

Now, the toggle and the (amazing) passive idea do change more, and, it might be argued in the case of the toggle, open the door for other things. That said, the passive is still immersive and does involve the trade-off people are calling for (You want to look mortal, give up 4 skillpoints you could use elsewhere). I mean, that's the equivalent of two skills and their morphs put into looking mortal.

Barbaran

i just wish you could still see tatoos and stuff while a vamp.
when you go vamp they fade so much you have to zoom all the way in to see them.
your basically left with using a skin or using a costume that covers anything that would make your toon look unique

Kanar

I feel bad for you guys forced into vampire. I took up your cause and created a thread in support:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380010/zos-a-case-for-reviewing-vampire-skill-line/p1?new=1
You're welcome

MLGProPlayer

Feanor wrote: »

I‘m baffled that this warrants a 9 page thread with over 200 comments. But then I remember I’m in the ESO forum and then I’m not surprised at all any longer.

Why?

This is an MMO. People care about how their characters look.

MLGProPlayer

Ozstryker wrote: »

Choose to be a vampire... you're choosing to embrace all the effects, the good the bad and the ugly!
Can't have any one without the others.. this is the only "fact" here.... the rest is 9 pages of opinion!



Just my 2 cents

All the best...

The current implementation of vampirism isn't logical.

ZOS is combining RP and gameplay elements when they should be kept separate. This is a genre where both gameplay stats and appearance are equally important, not separating appearance from stats in vampirism runs contrary to genre norms. It forces people to sacrifice appearance for being optimal in endgame content. No other MMO does this as they understand that character customisation is a core aspect of the genre (vampirism forces a specific appearance onto the player).

Runschei

Verbal_Earthworm wrote: »

equal rights for werewolves

let them use all the ww skills without transforming

that would only be fair, right?

I don't see how that would be lore appropriate, but I'd allow werewolf fur dye.

Alexandrious

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

@Gandrhulf_Harbard

Hmm....annoying end line at the end of all his posts....not knowing what it really means.......

I saw something similar somewhere....


wait......

*Looks at ToR forums*

Darthspuds is that you?

@Alexandrious

Yes, that is me.

And I do know EXACTLY what my Sign Off means, I've been using it since I sent my very first e-mail gods know how long ago.

It means I wish you "all the best" in whatever you do, even if we have disagreed over a specific issue.

It would be more than a little naive, and significantly arrogant of me to expect to go through life with everyone sharing my opinions. However, I see no reason that I should wish ill of someone just because we disagree over something.

So the "All The Best" is a sign off, to indicate that even if we have just, possibly vehemently, disagreed over a specific issue I hold no grudges, and think no ill of people because of that.

My concern is that so few people, here or at SWTOR forums, seem capable of understanding that is even possible.

All The Best

Ahh ok. Ya use it like I do my....


Kek

Runschei

But for those against an option to hide the vampire skin.
Explain to me why vampires have no bonuses what so ever in stage 1, yet we appear as vampires and still take extra damage from fire dmg and the fighters guild skills. In stage 1 you're well fed and should appear mortal, but we don't look like mortals. If you're so damn negative towards a possible toggle in options, or a skin in crown store, and your only comment is ''you can't have your cake and eat it too '' would you be ok with stage 1 looking like a mortal, still not having any damn bonuses but only the negatives? Would that be acceptable for you?

Hurbster

Erm, because you are still a walking corpse ?