Shor PC/NA "Official" Discussion

Adenoma

I want some of what he's cooking. Sounds fair.

technohic

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

i can respect anyone that kicks a*s without having to proxy > negate > destro > grothdarr > earthgore > exploit

/hat tip

So you mean Forward momentum > Guard > Resto ulti > seventh legion > Troll king > (exploit?) Instead yeh?

Better throw in some lingering health potions as well.

DeadlyRecluse

technohic wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

i can respect anyone that kicks a*s without having to proxy > negate > destro > grothdarr > earthgore > exploit

/hat tip

So you mean Forward momentum > Guard > Resto ulti > seventh legion > Troll king > (exploit?) Instead yeh?

Better throw in some lingering health potions as well.

And a convenient tree.

technohic

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

i can respect anyone that kicks a*s without having to proxy > negate > destro > grothdarr > earthgore > exploit

/hat tip

So you mean Forward momentum > Guard > Resto ulti > seventh legion > Troll king > (exploit?) Instead yeh?

Better throw in some lingering health potions as well.

And a convenient tree.

In Shor; all you need is a good resource tower. Some victims will come from miles and miles to chase one guy around.

DeadlyRecluse

technohic wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

i can respect anyone that kicks a*s without having to proxy > negate > destro > grothdarr > earthgore > exploit

/hat tip

So you mean Forward momentum > Guard > Resto ulti > seventh legion > Troll king > (exploit?) Instead yeh?

Better throw in some lingering health potions as well.

And a convenient tree.

In Shor; all you need is a good resource tower. Some victims will come from miles and miles to chase one guy around.

If I see an enemy player go into a resource tower, I put it in zone chat. Only way to be sure.

W0lf_z13

ended up dueling a seemingly very cool EP a few times last night ... him and another EP were hanging around Chal.... the second time we dueled out of no where 4 ad jumped us ... so we stopped the duel, the 3 of us killed off the ad then we continued the duel... which mid way he stopped the fight, apparently noticing that my drink/food buff was down and whispered me saying so, so i re buffed up and we reset the duel ... unfortunately 3 dc jumped in so i backed off and he ended up dying .... but it was def a funny moment

Rickter

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

i can respect anyone that kicks a*s without having to proxy > negate > destro > grothdarr > earthgore > exploit

/hat tip

So you mean Forward momentum > Guard > Resto ulti > seventh legion > Troll king > (exploit?) Instead yeh?

so Forward Momentum is considered cheese now?

I'll give you Guard and Resto Ult, but 7th and TK are being addressed shortly.

speaking of next patch: Destro trains will be even stronger next patch with the lift of AOE caps even with the reduced radius. Earthgore still retains its massive healing capability. As you know, there is a major magicka build benefiting exploit right now as well.

and destro trains can decide keep takes and defenses against large groups - the tower farming solo aforementioned cheese string player, cannot (9 times out of ten).

So imho, its comparing apples to oranges.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

@Rikter

Perhaps a better explanation would be I'd respect anyone who fights well regardless of the skills or gear they are using provided they are not exploiting.

Just because some groups are less prevalent doesn't mean they are any less viable if put together and lead well.

Vapirko

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@Rikter

Perhaps a better explanation would be I'd respect anyone who fights well regardless of the skills or gear they are using provided they are not exploiting.

Just because some groups are less prevalent doesn't mean they are any less viable if put together and lead well.

I’m having deja vu

PenguinInACan

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@Rikter

Perhaps a better explanation would be I'd respect anyone who fights well regardless of the skills or gear they are using provided they are not exploiting.

Just because some groups are less prevalent doesn't mean they are any less viable if put together and lead well.

This isn't an argument you can win in this thread. I'll give you an idea of how it will probably go:

Shor natives : "Go away meta group, we don't like your kind here"
Meta group : "But we like fighting you guys, and there isn't and lag, and the people are nice, and it-"
Shor natives : "We don't care, we can't beat your playstyle and we are the only ones that are allowed to have fun"
Meta group : "That's not very fair. We thought Shor was supposed to be a place that welcomed people"
Shor natives : "It is, just not you"
Meta group : "That's not very nice"
Shor natives : "You're not very nice. In fact, you're just bad players because you decided to play that way"
Meta group : "You're entitled to your opinion, but we are still going to do what is fun for us"
Shor natives : "But we said go away! Why won't you respect our authority!?"
Meta group : *silence*
Shor natives : "What were we complaining about again? Ball....group....destro....zerg.....No idea, I'm sure we'll remember in a month or so and rehash the whole thing making no progress."

Rickter

Nah, gonna take the high road. No sense in addressing passive aggressiveness.

Rickter

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@Rikter

Perhaps a better explanation would be I'd respect anyone who fights well regardless of the skills or gear they are using provided they are not exploiting.

Just because some groups are less prevalent doesn't mean they are any less viable if put together and lead well.

I agree and disagree. We can have a whole conversation, respectfully, about this but it wouldnt be to change minds, just simple exchange of opinions.

PenguinInACan

Rickter wrote: »

Oh get over yourself, Marek. The only person still stuck on anything is you and the 6 other people from TM that have forum accounts that captain save a hoe’d you, still butthurt over being called out for INTRODUCING (big significance here) a playstyle that can only be described as exploitative.

How exactly do I need to "get over myself?" I've been doing nothing but small scale and solo play in Shor lately and having a great time with people on all factions. I haven't posted in this thread about the whole ball group thing in weeks, but the first time I do and you jump on it with more negativity than ever... I don't think I'm the one butthurt here. I'm just making sure someone else doesn't fall down the rabbit hole of Shor stubbornness.

And if it's exploitative then report people and we'll see if you are right if bans start coming down. If not then don't label it that way.

For someone who made a big deal about how you're done with the whole "sheriff of shor" thing you seem to be very clingy to publicly hating on me for talking about Shor. Maybe its a personal thing, but if that's the case, that is what PM's exist for.

Rickter

Wow you jumped on that pretty quick didnt you?

And i did reach out in pms back in November 2017 when this all started! .... which you ignored. Lul.

You want to argue semantics with the word “exploit” but by definition, thats what your group did the day it was brought up.

Regardless of what youre doing now.

And honestly this is the second time you took a jab, so i felt compelled to respond, but quickly decided against it. Little did i know you were constanly pressing the refresh button. Almost like you knew you were soliciting an emotional response with your last brain dead rhetoric.

So now we have to deal with ALLLLLL your TM boys ganging up on this thread, with their outplayed beetlejuice inside joke all because you couldnt help yourself.

#cantwait

PenguinInACan

Rickter wrote: »

Wow you jumped on that pretty quick didnt you?

And i did reach out in pms.... which you ignored. Lul.

You want to argue semantics with the word “exploit” but by definition, thats what your group did the day it was brought up.

Regardless of what youre doing now.

And honestly this is the second time you took a jab, so i felt compelled to respond, but quickly decided against it. Little did i know you were constanly pressing the refresh button. Almost like you knew you were soliciting an emotional response with your last brain dead rhetoric.

So now we have to deal with ALLLLLL your TM boys ganging up on this thread, with their outplayed beetlejuice inside joke all because you couldnt help yourself.

#cantwait

I'm not doing this juvenile back and forth with you again. You start something in public, you better be prepared to respond in public. You have a problem with me, start the conversation in private and I'll continue it in private. But as soon as it's brought out onto a public forum, that's where it will stay and anything you say in a PM is useless as far as I am concerned.

I had a lot more fun debating with you when you were actually trying to convince me of something about the game.

Rickter

You do realize you kinda of started round two right?

And looks like i did respond in public. Without passive aggressiveness which is more than you can say.

And i did reach out to you in pms back in November of 2017. Ill post the screen shot and expose you right here in public if youd like. I bet you never told anyone that did you? That i wrote to you.

Heh.

Rickter

I editted my message to take the higher ground. But you want te juvenile back and forth.

Adenoma

Having a dedicated group comp for performance's sake within the rules of the game is not exploiting.

Personally, I like the Beetlejuice joke.

Rickter

Adenoma wrote: »

Having a dedicated group comp for performance's sake within the rules of the game is not exploiting.

Personally, I like the Beetlejuice joke.

Of course you would Adenoma. Because youre biased, despite stating the opposite.

And youre arguing semantics. Exploiting game mechanics is different from exploiting te Shor population at the time. The former i never accused anyone of doing.

Maybe if you lifted your biased shades, youd have seen my meaning.

PenguinInACan

Rickter wrote: »

You do realize you kinda of started round two right?

And looks like i did respond in public. Without passive aggressiveness which is more than you can say.

And i did reach out to you in pms back in November of 2017. Ill post the screen shot and expose you right here in public if youd like. I bet you never told anyone that did you? That i wrote to you.

Heh.

Perception is a very fluid sense...I made a joke, you took offense to it, I'm sorry it offended you or came off as "passive aggressive". Regardless I don't think it warranted the aggressive response it got from you.

You sent me a PM after calling out my guild in public and starting the negativity towards us. Again, start the conversation where you want to have it. In this case, it was started publicly. And I don't share private things. That's why they are private.

If you wan't to actually discuss Shor or ESO I'm all for it. But as I said over and over a few months ago, you attack me personally, I will defend myself. I don't remember ever publicly attacking you personally, so I don't understand why you feel it necessary to do the same to me.

AGGROxander_Hamilton

Me and the Bois just potatoing out in Shor:

https://youtu.be/NlFAjKBN0Zo

Kartalin

Fighting against the style of play that both Dracarys and TM use is a different thing than fighting the unorganized masses that we typically see EP sending out. One key to fighting with and fighting against our groups is mobility. We're constantly on the move because if we get locked down in one spot then we can get focused and end up losing through attrition. On the opposite side, if you see us coming with proxys ticking and a destro ult ramping up, it's time to get out of the way and stay mobile. Of course we're trying to lock you down and get a lot of people in the same place so our coordinated burst can work efficiently so this is where a player's awareness of the battlefield is key. Where can you LOS our group, is the group moving in a particular direction that you can get away from, are you near enough to the group that you can move through them to avoid most of the burst? All of these things can be considered. Like anything else in pvp, it's becoming familiar with the playstyle and learning how to avoid the big damage.

Adenoma

If respecting the prerogative of people to play as they want is biased, then I guess I have some bias.

But I really don't think that bias affects my judgement of Beetlejuice jokes. I'm just a regular ol' dude who likes me some Beetlejuice.

What do biased shades look like? I lost my sunglasses fly fishing last week and need some new ones. I sure hope biased shades come polarized by default.

technohic

AGGROxander_Hamilton wrote: »

Me and the Bois just potatoing out in Shor:

https://youtu.be/NlFAjKBN0Zo

LOL New forum user; but some combat I have seen a few times. Good video.

Rickter

Kartalin wrote: »

Snip

Thank you @Kartalin for this response. It was respectful and constructive. I fully understand the counter tactic and this was insightful into the strengths and weaknesses of the playstyle. I have analyzed and spoke with several people across multiple communities on how to handle the style and unfortunately, I still come to the same conclusion: it has very little counter despite what youve detailed. Im going to use TM here, not to poke at but because Ive had the most exposure to this through TM, but what we've seen is that in outposts or really anything short of open field, we just cant compete. You yourself, and Marek particularly run very tanky templar builds, and the lock down from warden permafrost makes spreading out that much more of a chore.

Im not trying to make excuses, but everyone has limitations and for the time being, unless something changes dramatically, this is our limitation as a group.

---

Guys, I really didnt want this entire discussion to occur again. Thats why i edited my original post albeit not fast enough.

So im going to say this one more time using the following quote to elaborate:

Adenoma wrote: »

If respecting the prerogative of people to play as they want is biased, then I guess I have some bias.

Even if respecting someone's prerogative means the disrespect of an entire existing community?

see, this is what I'm trying to get here guys. Analogy: you wear shoes in your own home, thats what you do, its not a problem. You go to a friends house and they ask you to take your shoes off before you walk on the carpet. You respect that request because its their house.

Now please do not go on about how Shor is not MY house. I know its not. But quite frankly, me and a few others pioneered Shor when no one else including most of the people posting in this thread now, couldn't give a rat's a*s. And me and those few others worked hard to shape Shor into a PvP community while others simply treated it as a Vivec overflow, or a time killer to get easy AP. Things like not Tri keep camping, no teabagging, no hate tells, no destro meta, no dirty plays (like running scrolls into the water) - all of those things laid the foundation for Shor. It took investment. I made friends out of enemies and enemies out of friends. We worked hard.

TM was targeted back in Nov because you were the first after 10 months of Shor's existence to run that kind of group. I never said it was OP or that anyone was using exploits, I expressed disappointment because many of the members of TM knew full well the demographic contained on Shor, yet chose to "wreck face" regardless. Hence the accusation that the playstyle "exploited" the Shor community.

since then, LoM, PtS, DR, and some AD guild i dont remember have all utilized that playstyle and Shor is no longer what it was 4 months ago. Which I've accepted.

But just because I've accepted that doesnt mean i still have strong passionate opinions about it.

The fact that so many people are arguing what I would consider basic human decency is astounding. There is no argument here. You had a choice, you made it at the expense of others. Now its the norm. Its done. Case closed. I wouldnt have said anything at all if Marek didnt snark up a couple posts back.

Ya'll gotta stop thinking this is just a game. Open your eyes and look around. This whole thread, and every day is a community. Shor has a subculture specific to Shor. Just like the other campaigns. Ya'll got to stop thinking its your guild against the world. I never formed an opinion about any of you until i saw you.

Case in point: @Joshlenoir and @AGGROxander_Hamilton - these guys were easy to despise. They carried the reputation of killing off an entire server. But after playing against them, I saw something different. They never once played dirty, and despite early teabags, they conducted themselves with general honor and i began to respect them very much without having really any kind of respect for them prior.

Whereas with TM: I had a lot of respect for from Thornblade, but this current TM showed me quite the opposite. I voiced that here because this is the community discussion. and the community should have been involved otherwise, it was just me complaining.

Im a community oriented person. Ive led my guild since June of 2014. Requiem is one of the oldest guilds around and we most certainly pvped at launch and i can name drop like any of you. But because i avoided the forums for 3 years, I look like the new guy with little to no opinion. Well thats simply not true. I have an opinion because I worked with other guilds to fashion a campaign that no one cared about, into a 6v6 small-to-medium-scale dream.

Did i come off hot? sure! and i do apologize for that. I really do. I didnt want this to be a blood feud and voiced that several times. But this is my passion. I am the real deal. I do care about a overall community. Any amount of time around me and you'd see that. Shor is my home campaign. I dont campaign swap or flip. I spent 8 days away from shor the entire time it was live. Its where i pvp every night and poured significant investment.

in any case, all that is moot now. Requiem runs under 10 players and that doesnt fit in too much with the current landscape. Ive resigned myself and accepted this fact. But i still have my opinions about that meta, which i am most certainly entitled to.

W0lf_z13

AGGROxander_Hamilton wrote: »

Me and the Bois just potatoing out in Shor:

https://youtu.be/NlFAjKBN0Zo

what addon is that on the top left man?

Munavar

In a poor Drak impression... "Beetlejuice"

Has Marek even been on his Templar in months?

PenguinInACan

Munavar wrote: »

In a poor Drak impression... "Beetlejuice"

Has Marek even been on his Templar in months?

Not in TM groups. It's not setup for group comp.

Munavar

The time of Templar Nation is near its end. The rise of the Stambros is well on the way as they cast their fell shadows across all of the land.

gabriebe

The rise of the Stambros?

Pretty much that bread has risen, gone stale, rotted and sprouted a bunch of tomatoes in the garden after a trip in the compost bin.

One thing I think that'd be hilarious but would bring a lot of diversity in the gameplay would be to remove Dawnbreaker from the game. The stambro tears would hydrate the Sahara desert...