Shor PC/NA "Official" Discussion

DeadlyRecluse

Glory wrote: »

"Progress"

This conversation will go places, that's for sure.

We played shor briefly last weekend. Wasn't a great environment for a 4man, unless you like surfing--though tagging the DC and EP balls while they fought was kinda fun.

On the other hand, Shor was, briefly, poplocked across the board (and Vivec was too, ofc). That's pretty cool and worth noting for those concerned with the supposed "death of PvP" in this game (both Kyne and Sotha had 2-3 bars across the board too).

Rickter

I find myself in that 4-6 man category these days as well, Deadly. IC and BGs have been our haven but BGs is about the dumbest thing ive ever seen.

"Avoid combat and win" = 98% of BGs

DeadlyRecluse

Rickter wrote: »

I find myself in that 4-6 man category these days as well, Deadly. IC and BGs have been our haven but BGs is about the dumbest thing ive ever seen.

"Avoid combat and win" = 98% of BGs

Even deathmatch, man. My best deathmatch scores come from just staying out of combat and cheesing executes for killsteals, but it's too boring so I don't bother.

IC would be better, but it's so inconsistent--I think the last time we ran into you down there, we got like 2-3 decent fights in, then a full raid of AD showed up...everywhere. The other night, there was a DC raid down there, etc. etc.

Trying to bomb the raid with 4 is fun occasionally, but gets old fast, and the sewers are pretty deserted. Plus it takes like 20 minutes to transition over to another IC instance if there just isn't anything to do.

pzschrek

Vilestride wrote: »

I heard that the large groups there are trying to fight modern military with bows and arrows. Everywhere gets colonized eventually.

@Vilestride, I thought to myself before that it reminds me of that old Imperialist tripe from Hilaire Belloc regarding facing opponents waging honorable, courageous, traditional means of war.

"Whatever happens, we have got the Maxim Gun the destro pain train, and they have not."

Yeah DC be pop-locked zergin' though with Fengrush back and are also out-balling everyone on Shor. EP and AD need moar meta groups to fight em prime time, esp if they're going to continue calling in the 25 man LOM ball to help. The group I've been with in there tends to run this way but only has 10 or so which isn't enough.

Edit: I ought to say I don't celebrate this, as a lot of the people there liked it smaller and it's turned into a mini-Vivec, but the observation is correct.

Kartalin

IC will probably be bad for awhile since people are farming tel var to buy their home storage. Could also explain the population upticks we're seeing.

CyrusArya

Vilestride wrote: »

Great civilizations like Rome are built off the back of smaller, now irrelevant ones. The price of progress is high.

Great civilizations also tend to produce ignorant and entitled bigots who take the collective accomplishments of their people as some kind of credit to the personal ego. Something those same types tend to crutch on as a sad substitute for a lack of personal achievement. Sort of analogous to little zerglings carried by the name of their guilds who think they are somebody.

You seem to be keen on history, so I'm sure I don't need to remind you that complacency fueled by arrogance has led to the fall of many a mighty civilization, Rome being but one stepping stone in this tradition that continues to this day.

DeadlyRecluse

pzschrek wrote: »

Edit: I ought to say I don't celebrate this, as a lot of the people there liked it smaller and it's turned into a mini-Vivec, but the observation is correct.

It is what it is. Nobody is responsible for anyone else's fun, and if one faction has a ball group, the others kinda need them too.

...this thread is getting really bombastic though, which I wholeheartedly support.

technohic

pzschrek wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

I heard that the large groups there are trying to fight modern military with bows and arrows. Everywhere gets colonized eventually.

@Vilestride, I thought to myself before that it reminds me of that old Imperialist tripe from Hilaire Belloc regarding facing opponents waging honorable, courageous, traditional means of war.

"Whatever happens, we have got the Maxim Gun the destro pain train, and they have not."

Yeah DC be pop-locked zergin' though with Fengrush back and are also out-balling everyone on Shor. EP and AD need moar meta groups to fight em prime time, esp if they're going to continue calling in the 25 man LOM ball to help. The group I've been with in there tends to run this way but only has 10 or so which isn't enough.

Edit: I ought to say I don't celebrate this, as a lot of the people there liked it smaller and it's turned into a mini-Vivec, but the observation is correct.

Has there been some DC ball groups? I haven’t been out a lot lately but usually I see DC pugs getting farmer by smaller numbers in resource towers. A lot of disorganized play.

Stridig

Pugs don't get farmed. They get outplayed.

Rickter

I think you all know where i stand on "the meta" I do not want to see *more* of those kinds of groups in Shor. I think 2 weeks of Fengrush celebrity attraction to justify bringing in more groups like that is a bit unfair. The dude always stops playing the game, you know that, and when hes gone, will the meta groups leave too? or utilize other tactics to balance the ph levels of the campaign so to speak? I think not. I think theyll be drunk on the ap gains and stick around to make other players experiences miserable.

That "meta" is not friendly for: newcomers, small scalers, medium scalers, casual pvpers, or progressive oriented guilds. It counters and stifles that list. it benefits and rewards large group, meta composed, competitive oriented players - which is a small margin and why you can count on maximum, two hands how many guilds have perfected that play style across all three campaigns. I wouldnt say its a high level of play either. its simply "competitive" because its a combination of skills and group compositions with little counterplay and against another group utilizing those tactics, its unforgiving - which adds to the competitive nature of the play style.

My guild has never utilized that style of play and yet, Requiem has gained notoriety (for better or for worse) and respect and we've had a lot of fun over this past year. So i'd say we were a living example of cutting the bullsh*t so to speak.

It's also surprising how utterly AVERAGE groups are when not using that playstyle - very telling.

PenguinInACan

CyrusArya wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Great civilizations like Rome are built off the back of smaller, now irrelevant ones. The price of progress is high.

Great civilizations also tend to produce ignorant and entitled bigots who take the collective accomplishments of their people as some kind of credit to the personal ego. Something those same types tend to crutch on as a sad substitute for a lack of personal achievement. Sort of analogous to little zerglings carried by the name of their guilds who think they are somebody.

You seem to be keen on history, so I'm sure I don't need to remind you that complacency fueled by arrogance has led to the fall of many a mighty civilization, Rome being but one stepping stone in this tradition that continues to this day.

Every modern 1st world country has been built off of everything you just described. Every major technological/philosophical/economical/cultural golden age has been fueled by arrogant, but progressively minded people. Progression isn't a straight line though, it's a spectrum of ideals that moves towards perceived improvements.

There are tons of parallels you can draw between historical references and ESO, but there's really no point. Everybody is already convinced their opinions are fact and any debate about it will just devolve into juvenile insults like "you are bad" with nothing backing them up.

CyrusArya

PenguinInACan wrote: »

Every modern 1st world country has been built off of everything you just described. Every major technological/philosophical/economical/cultural golden age has been fueled by arrogant, but progressively minded people. Progression isn't a straight line though, it's a spectrum of ideals that moves towards perceived improvements.

There are tons of parallels you can draw between historical references and ESO, but there's really no point. Everybody is already convinced their opinions are fact and any debate about it will just devolve into juvenile insults like "you are bad" with nothing backing them up.

Yup. I am not disagreeing that most great powers have been built off conquest, exploitation, and a drive for superiority. My issue isn’t with those who contribute to this progress. If you re examine my verbiage, my issue is with those who ride the coat tails and then talk high and mighty.

Rickter

This is a legit depiction of the Shor natives vs vivec meta destro trains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ovhzszEz-w

PenguinInACan

CyrusArya wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

Every modern 1st world country has been built off of everything you just described. Every major technological/philosophical/economical/cultural golden age has been fueled by arrogant, but progressively minded people. Progression isn't a straight line though, it's a spectrum of ideals that moves towards perceived improvements.

There are tons of parallels you can draw between historical references and ESO, but there's really no point. Everybody is already convinced their opinions are fact and any debate about it will just devolve into juvenile insults like "you are bad" with nothing backing them up.

Yup. I am not disagreeing that most great powers have been built off conquest, exploitation, and a drive for superiority. My issue isn’t with those who contribute to this progress. If you re examine my verbiage, my issue is with those who ride the coat tails and then talk high and mighty.

The problem I have with that is it's very difficult in ESO to prove (with actual facts, and not opinions) who is riding coat tails and who is contributing to progress. I'm not talking about individual player aptitude or ability. Every statement about skill made about anyone in open world PvP is 100% opinion based. It's very common in this community to say things like "he/she/they are carried by x" or "he/she/they are just bad players" but then when asked to defend that opinion people just deflect or respond with "because that's OP/broken".

CyrusArya

Rickter wrote: »

This is a legit depiction of the Shor natives vs vivec meta destro trains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ovhzszEz-w

The critical difference is, a pleb musketeer will still murder a katana wielding samurai without an army behind his/her back. A pleb destro zergling will probably not scratch a true small/medium scale pvper.

DeadlyRecluse

Obligatory "reasoning by analogy is inherently fallacious" comment.

Also, obligatory giggle at the word "fallacious."

Adenoma

@DeadlyRecluse , thanks for keeping us grounded.

pzschrek

Kartalin wrote: »

IC will probably be bad for awhile since people are farming tel var to buy their home storage. Could also explain the population upticks we're seeing.

This

Rickter wrote: »

...2 weeks of Fengrush celebrity attraction... The dude always stops playing the game...

This as well.

The low-ish base of Shor pop to begin with makes it very susceptible to rapid swings in campaign status I suppose. Hell, looked like even Dracarys spent time in there after their GVGs. I bet it will look different in a month. What that "different" is is open to interpretation.

anamenobodyelsehas

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Obligatory "reasoning by analogy is inherently fallacious" comment.

Also, obligatory giggle at the word "fallacious."

Vilestride

CyrusArya wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Great civilizations like Rome are built off the back of smaller, now irrelevant ones. The price of progress is high.

Great civilizations also tend to produce ignorant and entitled bigots who take the collective accomplishments of their people as some kind of credit to the personal ego. Something those same types tend to crutch on as a sad substitute for a lack of personal achievement. Sort of analogous to little zerglings carried by the name of their guilds who think they are somebody.

You seem to be keen on history, so I'm sure I don't need to remind you that complacency fueled by arrogance has led to the fall of many a mighty civilization, Rome being but one stepping stone in this tradition that continues to this day.

Define 'somebody' in this context. Are you somebody?

Because here I thought we were all just stardust. Me, you, Roman's, zerglings. All as worthwhile as the dirt we walk on.

Explain to me the objective criteria you are using to define the worth of individual progress and how you think it's more or less relevant than collective progress?

While you're at it tell me how you quantify those achievements. Is building Rome a greater achievement than getting a 1vX in ESO? I'd like to know by what objective law you measured this.

DeadlyRecluse

Hannibal marched elephants across Alessia bridge once. True story.

Vilestride

Elephants in the crown store now?

CyrusArya

Vilestride wrote: »

Define 'somebody' in this context. Are you somebody?

Because here I thought we were all just stardust. Me, you, Roman's, zerglings. All as worthwhile as the dirt we walk on.

Explain to me the objective criteria you are using to define the worth of individual progress and how you think it's more or less relevant than collective progress?

While you're at it tell me how you quantify those achievements. Is building Rome a greater achievement than getting a 1vX in ESO? I'd like to know by what objective law you measured this.

My name is Arya. A boy is no one. How about you explain to me how a conquered civilization is irrelevant when by nature of how Empires work, they are an indivisible, intrinsic part of the conquering civilization. Is there a Persia without Babylon? Is there a Hellenic Greece without Persia? Is there a Rome without Greece/Carthage? Is there a Caliphate without Persia/Rome? Is there a British Empire without India? The answer in all these cases is no. Now, not every conquered state or people is gonna be a British Raj, but no matter how small a conquered nation may seem to an ignorant mind, they are never irrelevant.

Vilestride

CyrusArya wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Define 'somebody' in this context. Are you somebody?

Because here I thought we were all just stardust. Me, you, Roman's, zerglings. All as worthwhile as the dirt we walk on.

Explain to me the objective criteria you are using to define the worth of individual progress and how you think it's more or less relevant than collective progress?

While you're at it tell me how you quantify those achievements. Is building Rome a greater achievement than getting a 1vX in ESO? I'd like to know by what objective law you measured this.

My name is Arya. A boy is no one. How about you explain to me how a conquered civilization is irrelevant when by nature of how Empires work, they are an indivisible, intrinsic part of the conquering civilization. Is there a Persia without Babylon? Is there a Hellenic Greece without Persia? Is there a Rome without Greece/Carthage? Is there a Caliphate without Persia/Rome? Is there a British Empire without India? The answer in all these cases is no. Now, not every conquered state or people is gonna be a British Raj, but no matter how small a conquered nation may seem to an ignorant mind, they are never irrelevant.

Needs more Spartans.

gabriebe

LoM runs raids with more than 10 people in it like once a week, sometimes twice. Just look at the scoring in Shor (and the map in odd hours) and you'll see that EP isn't exactly in the need for new blood at the moment.

Shor cruelly lacks pugs wranglers though. It's a pretty dead zone chat for the most part.

Scrub_Potato

Rickter wrote: »

This is a legit depiction of the Shor natives vs vivec meta destro trains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ovhzszEz-w

I love that movie! Oddly enough... lol

Rickter

Scrub_Potato wrote: »

I love that movie! Oddly enough... lol

nothing odd about it: this movie was dope af.

i would just like to point out that destro negate proxy train meta is the gatling gun. and everyone not using that meta are the samurai getting mowed down.

What's so pathetic about the whole situation, are the people utilizing said meta against people they know cant defend against it, then calling them bad or to quit crying when they say the meta is OP. Which for the record: I never said the meta was OP. I expressed my general disdain for it, and how it stifles virtually every other play style that could be considered in the entire game.

King_Thelon

While THE KING OF THE DOMINION is known for his skills on the battlefield, HE is also known to frequent and feature clips of legendary samurai folklore. Accordingly, THE KING graces this thread with this clip, a gracious blessing bestowed upon the common folk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXMhlK2nyIA

Rickter

i can respect anyone that kicks a*s without having to proxy > negate > destro > grothdarr > earthgore > exploit

/hat tip

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Rickter wrote: »

i can respect anyone that kicks a*s without having to proxy > negate > destro > grothdarr > earthgore > exploit

/hat tip

So you mean Forward momentum > Guard > Resto ulti > seventh legion > Troll king > (exploit?) Instead yeh?