Shor PC/NA "Official" Discussion

Raknosh

Rickter wrote: »

Im startin to think we should have kept Mojican on the throne.... he could have busted up that group many times over....

On the throne or not, these guy would give any zerg a hard time lol

A_G_G_R_O

You know me, just out there shamelessly zerging folks down.

Manlayan

Rickter wrote: »

Shors pop picked up because they closed xarxes, kastav, and almalexia.

We all knew shor would experience some side effects of this. I understand and agree zergs are not fun, but shor needed an increase in pop imo.

Im going to recap last night from Requiems perspective. Please understand i dont know the whole story: this is just what it looked like from where we were standing:

There was confirmed at least 28 <Dreadlords> running the server at one point prior to 9pm est. this was ongoing since about 8pm and dc wasnt organized. Prior to that, We were experiencing smaller skirmishes on the west side of the map to dethrone @manny254 but by 8:30- EP was essentially having their way with shor. i opened my group to zone chat in order to directly combat that group but even then i only was able to muster 19.

Lacking strong group builds, i resort to zerging. Because im not a good pvper and apparently some people thought i was boasting that at one point...

We push them off ales, off bleakers, and try to use the momentum to hit chalman but it just wasnt enough. That group literally out-zerged my 19. There was more EP in chalman than there were DC hands down.

There didnt seem to be communication amoungst the EP however, because @Joshlenoir ‘s group wasnt working with @Dutchessx ‘s group who wasnt working with <Dreadlords> group yet managed to be all at the same place at the same time. I got called a zergling, which i was at that point, but someone got so pissed he gquit a cross faction guild over it despite participating with the EP at chalman.

After that defeat, DC spirits were broken. The pugs started dropping out of group and some guildies were calling it a night. I could tell the EP groups were trying to distance themselves from one another at one point because all three were on bleakers directly after but josh and GoS moved away to leave dreads to die miserably. Ales was hit and sacked, then boom, we got a fight at Warden. I had 11 at this point, still being called a zergling, and defended warden against GoS who reported they only had 8 but it looked like more. I cant confirm so we’ll take their word. That was a really good fight. They came back and low and behold, we got another ep group there as well and two walls of warden were being sieged. But there seemed to be some confusion, because on wall stopped being sieged, and then more DC started to show because i mean, its WARDEN, and then GoS was zerged down and josh was pushed to the mine? Idk i logged out after the walls were repaired.


So let me ask you: what was the focus on DC? All we had was warden, glade, rayles and bleakers yet our gate keep gets attacked on two fronts?

Were there any AD online at this point? (9:30ish pm +)

Greetings All, I am the Leader of Dreadlords, Go back through my history and you will see that i do not talk ***, nor reply to *** talked about us in the past. But i will say this, every time i see that we are a Zerg Group for example on the post mentioned above, we literally had 14 players in our group. so i don't know if you are seeing double but i normally respect what i read when Rickter posts, but not this time. I literally re-activated my damn forum account to reply to this, and all the other BS talked about "Zergs". i don't know what perspective you have, or think you have about the Dreadlords, but we are just people who enjoy playing together. Now whether that is playing together KILLING you, or playing together being KILLED by you, thats all fine with us. if you *** that we have too many, go make some more friends, i could post 100 times how there were 10 dreads against a 15-20 man group and we won, so fricking what.......... find the group you want to play with and do it. i encourage all you Banana types and Blueberries to form all the groups you want and care to, Dreads will be here to Fight you, Kill you, or Die to you. Don't make your lack of forming a bond our problem, please send all hate mail and complaints to me directly @HadesStyxx

xaraan

Actually, watching blue pull a red right now too with their zerg ball and emp and after watching the thing with Brindle the other day, I don't think anyone is interested in a healthy campaign, just getting people to zerg down. As long as ZoS allows the game to be built around zergs and players continue to be not good enough to fight in smaller numbers and need the zerg to live, then that's what will happen, no matter the campaign.

technohic

Rickter

@Manlayan the post of mine that you quoted had very little mention of Dreadlords. There was indeed more than 14 ep in that group and you can see 22 in JulesXII’s stream. So i do want to apologize if your guild gets wrongfully associated with i suppose the pugs that surf your group, but your silence on the matter in this thread caused speculations to go wild. And since Dreads is the only guild that wears guild tags, thats wht that group gets referred to.

@xaraan i explained the *literally* one off brindle incident in a post on the previous page. Im sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way, ill stay away from brindle from now on. But please do not say all the ruckus ive started in this thread and my actions in game was for nothing. At the end of the day, no one from Requiem teabagged, hate whispered, gate camped, destro proxy bombed you. You get a straight up fight with us and thats what ive always promised.

A_G_G_R_O

Next time you see me ima be riding my dreadlords surfboard mowing down AD and DC small groups !!! CHAOS I SAY!

Vapirko

I think we should all take a step back, and avoid trying to name and number groups unless you know for absolute certainty that so and so guild brought this number, and it was a huge issue. Honestly no group, especially those approaching 10 or so, can avoid picking up pugs, sometimes a lot. I think most regular guilds/players refrain from gate camping/pushing tri keeps/night capping and that’s really all we can ask, anything more than that is up to each player/guild. There are a couple random groups that come on off hours and don’t seem to have any qualms but there’s not much can be done about it.

A_G_G_R_O

Vapirko wrote: »

I think we should all take a step back, and avoid trying to name and number groups unless you know for absolute certainty that so and so guild brought this number, and it was a huge issue. Honestly no group, especially those approaching 10 or so, can avoid picking up pugs, sometimes a lot. I think most regular guilds/players refrain from gate camping/pushing tri keeps/night capping and that’s really all we can ask, anything more than that is up to each player/guild. There are a couple random groups that come on off hours and don’t seem to have any qualms but there’s not much can be done about it.

We should sign a treaty and have a role play peace treaty signing.....

*it will inevitably break out into a fight*

And action.....

Chrlynsch

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I think we should all take a step back, and avoid trying to name and number groups unless you know for absolute certainty that so and so guild brought this number, and it was a huge issue. Honestly no group, especially those approaching 10 or so, can avoid picking up pugs, sometimes a lot. I think most regular guilds/players refrain from gate camping/pushing tri keeps/night capping and that’s really all we can ask, anything more than that is up to each player/guild. There are a couple random groups that come on off hours and don’t seem to have any qualms but there’s not much can be done about it.

We should sign a treaty and have a role play peace treaty signing.....

*it will inevitably break out into a fight*

And action.....

Goes to dip quill into ink...

*Werewolf paws are too clumsy to do that action*

xaraan

Rickter wrote: »

@Manlayan the post of mine that you quoted had very little mention of Dreadlords. There was indeed more than 14 ep in that group and you can see 22 in JulesXII’s stream. So i do want to apologize if your guild gets wrongfully associated with i suppose the pugs that surf your group, but your silence on the matter in this thread caused speculations to go wild. And since Dreads is the only guild that wears guild tags, thats wht that group gets referred to.

@xaraan i explained the *literally* one off brindle incident in a post on the previous page. Im sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way, ill stay away from brindle from now on. But please do not say all the ruckus ive started in this thread and my actions in game was for nothing. At the end of the day, no one from Requiem teabagged, hate whispered, gate camped, destro proxy bombed you. You get a straight up fight with us and thats what ive always promised.

I heard about your explanation, but frankly, I found it not a good one, so I moved on, but I can address it.

As I see, most players (probably AD too) can't play without a giant zerg against any reasonably skilled small group of players. That blue zerg I mentioned today, was busy fighting AD, while the red zerg took stuff because the two zergs are afraid to fight equal numbers. I mean, let's be real, the complaints about TM don't work because they do not run more people than we fight on red or blue. I can at least say the blues were on the last emp keep, so don't fault them for piling at that location, but watching reds not hit them (with their main force) and zerg other spots - there were a few reds hitting it at times, but mostly they didn't seem too concerned. Probably because they know they will just zerg roll the campaign tomorrow morning or whatever they do.

I think that's the issue with Shor, when it's good it's good, when it's Vivec bad like today, and the pops aren't balanced like Vivec and the zergs are scared to fight each other, so they just fight little groups. I mean, let's be real - if they took away AoE caps, most of the groups that have fought us would be in trouble. If they added a rez sickness so a zerg can't just keep zombie rezzing, then these groups would never win a fight. So I don't see the desire to fight the way most people seem to, I don't understand how it's fun and they never improve because of it. Which means ZoS won't make drastic changes against zerging because they will scare off the most casual players by making it harder for them to get an easy W.

There is no way in the world I can relate to your decision to get Brindle when AD is outnumbered and fighting a red zerg and you have chances to get blue home keeps back while red is busy with us. Who cares about the quest, you don't even get that much AP for them, I lose more Ap turning stuff in than if we just keep moving. We would have been excited at the chance to push into a fight, take back some home keeps while the reds would have had to split up a bit to fight both. I appreciate that you might not do some of the crazy stuff you mentioned above, but it comes down to more than that IMO. Put your money where your mouth is and make calls based on the health of the campaign when you see something crazy like that going on.

I mean, if you or red literally want to PvDoor stuff with a zerg and flip emp or whatever, then we have no trouble taking a break or jumping on other campaigns. The only thing we are playing for is to get fun fights, not AP, dont' care if we win the campaign for our alliance, etc. - so if we aren't getting that, then you will have less AD to fight, or less AD to push on red when they zerg and you are getting zerged down. And this isn't just on you, it's on any group leader. If your goal is to zerg role a map, then hey, what can I say; but if it's to have fun pvp fights that are challenging, then maybe look and realize when it's 20v5 that you don't need seige in addition to that amount of people, etc. But this advice is only applicable if you (or anyone) are concerned with not driving out enemies and actually want some people to come back and fight you as you play.

In the end you don't control every player, so I'm not putting it on you, but the Brindle thing was your call, so I felt like that was a bad one and I called it as I saw it. Not the end of the world, but I explained my thoughts on it all by now.

As for the rest, it's just player mentality. People get wrecked when it's 10v5, so they come back with 15v5 and lose, then 20v5 with seige, etc until they win. Zos encourages this. They could make some small tweaks that would help a lot IMO - get rid of AoE caps (a large group already has an advantage because they have dedicated roles often, but mainly they have more healers and damage dealers, they don't need more mit). And cap group size at 12. Any group bigger than that it the current PvP climate is unnecessary. Pops are too small now and if people want to zerg past that, make them do the extra work of coordinating separate groups. Past people deciding for themselves to not kill off the fighting in a campaign to keep the fun going, I don't think ZoS is going to do much to help the problem.

A_G_G_R_O

I sure hope not, I haven’t even formed my 40 man deep Zerg , I mean large scale pvp guild.

I need 40 good wardens in reactive earthgore with northern wind slotted. 30K HP minimum..... slow roll the map.

Curragraigue

Population balance is always the hardest part of managing a quiet server. Sometimes setting up scheduled meet and greets with the locals can help with the tension.

People who stay on a quiet server are usually looking for the same thing fun fights without the lag and zergs of the main campaign. So if you get on at least respectful terms with other guild leads and get your groups to meet up or even get in a voice channel together you can build bonds to help you work out problems. Having meet ups where you can duel or gvg and muck around tends to builds bridges and can help with the minor problems.

Team Green to discourage a red zerg could be a thing.

Rickter

@xaraan do you know how many times ive intentionally pushed red because i was the only one on the server with a comparable group size to take them on?

Sure taking brindle for the quest might have been poor timing but youre acting like ignored red the rest of the night.

No sir. I most certainly took my guild with the 9-12 i had and pushed red.

Like i get it, “for the quest” doesnt sound too convincing but im telling you man, we are casual. Alot of our raid actions are based on what quests we have. Were constantly asking what resource or keep quests each other have and sharing them. Idk its just something we do?

In any case i fight where the fighting is. Youre letting one odd off keep take blemish my entire career. Its silly man. I fought red to the bitter end last night and had a really good fight with GoS. I called offensive ults on the front flag, pulled us off to the transit mages, let them push back flag, pushed back on front flag, killed two, when they pushed back, we pulled back, ran across the top stairs, came in behind them and wiped them on back flag with a combination of defensive ults (barrier and a nova) and single target offensive ults (db and leaps).

I watched a stream of your team (im sure you can guess whos) and lemme tell you: i make the same calls your raid lead does. You cant tell me thats your typical zerg. Im not saying “light attack build destros....ok now pop proxy, follow me, 3,2,1 - all ults, go!” Im directing the group til my voice goes dry.

Rickter

That last part had no real relevance. Sorry it was a tangent.

Look we agree: brindle at that particular time was a bad call.

We did engage red the rest of the night however.

And yes Requiem does run anywhere from 6-16. Lately its been 8-12. Lately being this week. But unless were fighting drea- oops, i mean the ep group that is probably a lot of ep combined, i do break off the group to hit multiple targets to keep the group slim.

Joshlenoir

@Rickter The fight at warden was fun, and yeah we didn't coordinate with dutchess' group because it's harder to rely on / coordinate with players that aren't on your groups level of play

on a separate note, @Vapirko how you doing bro

xaraan

Fair enough Ricktor, I'll take you at your word at this point on the Brindle thing, probably just because we've seen stuff like that before from other groups many times in the past it's an eye roller for us. But many of the comments I made aren't all on your shoulders. Anyone reading and playing that actually wants to encourage good fighting in the campaign and not just have it become Vivec pt 2 (which is what its starting to feel like) then they should think about some of the stuff we've talked about.

Chrlynsch

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

I sure hope not, I haven’t even formed my 40 man deep Zerg , I mean large scale pvp guild.

I need 40 good wardens in reactive earthgore with northern wind slotted. 30K HP minimum..... slow roll the map.

Winter is coming...

Adenoma

@A_G_G_R_O , if you're theorycrafting then you've got to at least pick permafrost. The damage increase is negligible when you're going to have low max stats - just go for the amazing CC morph.

technohic

Seems to me that talking on the forums about what happened after the fact is too late. Maybe there should be a cross faction Shor guild and if something is out of line, it can be brought up while happening. I have a feeling tempers will tear it down but it could be interesting

Vapirko

@Joshlenoir pretty good man, especially knowing what lengths you’ll go to to talk to me. What’s the matter, all three of you trying to whisper me today wasn’t enough? Damn! I didn’t know y’all liked me THAT much. So much attention from you and your fan bois.

DeadlyRecluse

technohic wrote: »

Seems to me that talking on the forums about what happened after the fact is too late. Maybe there should be a cross faction Shor guild and if something is out of line, it can be brought up while happening. I have a feeling tempers will tear it down but it could be interesting

I'd give it 3 days, tops, until it became a toxic petri dish.

pzschrek

@DeadlyRecluse you could make a discord for Shor.

@A_G_G_R_O or @jaysins or someone did that for Sotha and it was a great, non-toxic place to casually discuss campaign issues without argument or rancor.

That would probably work out.

DeadlyRecluse

pzschrek wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse you could make a discord for Shor.

A_G_G_R_O or jaysins or someone did that for Sotha and it was a great, non-toxic place to casually discuss campaign issues without argument or rancor.

That would probably work out.

1. I don't use discord and find the company somewhat suspicious. But I'm a paranoid dude who lives on a mountain, so take that with a grain of salt.
2. I disagree that the sotha discord is particularly non-toxic, if it's the one I've heard of. I could be wrong (or you could be joking?)....plus it wasn't exactly effective at patching up Sotha...
3. I think the forum is PERFECT for this kind of discussion. Here, you have to type something up, look at it for a second, and commit. People occasionally have issues with moderation, but having 3rd party moderation is pretty essential, imo.
4. Realtime crossfaction communication, imo, should be reserved exclusively for positive stuff. Exclusively. I've never seen a situation where crossfaction communication as a way to voice a complaint worked out in anyone's favor. Ever. If I my group gets whupped and I go accuse someone of zerging and we spend the next 15 minutes slapping internet wangs, nothing was accomplished, PvP was not had, nobody walked away thinking better of their actions. If we just respawn and get back at it, maybe we'll find a good fight.
5. YMMV, but I've NEVER seen "calling someone out" for behavior in this game or ANY game actually work. Especially not in the heat of the moment.

casparian

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

slapping internet wangs

Thank you for this.

DeadlyRecluse

casparian wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

slapping internet wangs

Thank you for this.

I live to serve.

Rickter

i think pzshrek was being facetious about the sotha discord being a great place lol.

in any case, if Hadesstyxx came out of forum retirement to respond to me here, then this is the defacto Shor discussion platform.

pzschrek

Rickter wrote: »

i think pzshrek was being facetious about the sotha discord being a great place lol

+1

I'd be in it if serjustin runs it. Hell, I'd pay to be in it then.

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

But I'm a paranoid dude who lives on a mountain, so take that with a grain of salt.

So...you're handle is actually reflective of your reality? That's awesome.

Rickter

Oh hey @DeadlyRecluse i find discord suspicious too but im i terested in why you do. Care to elaborate please?

DeadlyRecluse

Rickter wrote: »

Oh hey DeadlyRecluse i find discord suspicious too but im i terested in why you do. Care to elaborate please?

1. Past and current history and privacy and security concerns. A lot of these are beyond me on a technical level, but just a little digging makes me nervous enough to have no desire to switch.
2. Free competitors to existing paid services are getting paid from somewhere. Discord isn't altruistic, and it's unclear (to me) how it's funded. Somebody else may be able to discredit or elaborate on this concern. The cost of a high quality TS3 server is negligible if shared between 3-4 people, and at least I can expect a certain level of customer service and server uptime based on a service that I am paying for.
3. I don't like the browser integration. It's convenient, but I like having an app, connected to a server, etc. etc. that I can at least kind of understand. Maybe that's just old school, idk.
4. When I tried it, I felt the audio quality in Discord was inferior. That has, in all probability, changed since then.
5. Administrative features in teamspeak are hella clunky, but once you sort it out it's very granular. Priority speaking, for example, is amazing (tbh I need to tune that setting a bit more in our TS server, but I like it). A few of those features weren't available in Discord when I tried it. Again, that may have changed.

But like I said, living on a mountain, grain of salt, all that.
Also, I've expended my list-formatted responses for today. Check in tomorrow for more pointless lists nobody really cares about.