Shor PC/NA "Official" Discussion

gameswithaspoon

Rickter wrote: »

Spoon loves you.

technohic

PenguinInACan wrote: »

Joshlenoir wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

So @DeadlyRecluse and @Adenoma you can assure us that <Tertiary Meat> had no hand in killing off Sotha Sil and there is no reason to believe theyd do that to Shor considering what a great place several people worked very hard to create, right?

Because from what ive seen so far from their unapologetic forum presence, and the three nights in a row of trampling on players that cant even defend themselves is telling me and everyone different.

Look I'll be honest. Playing PvP and expecting other guilds to keep your well being or interests in mind is going to set you up for failure. In my experience it's safe to assume the guilds / groups you named will do whatever they want that brings them fun (as they should). For some people it's small scale, and for others it's zerging.
I tried PvPing with 3 people I've never played with before on EP today and 100% of the time I fought AD a group of 8 somewhat organized potatoes would rush us with multiple Destro ultimates and earthgore procs to carry them from any pressure. They even went as far as to stare directly at us and light attack until they got ultimate before they decided to engage us just to hit their ultimates and rush us again despite the fact that they had 2x our numbers. It's just how PvP is now adays, it's a 1 button fire and forget form of gameplay/group comp however if it brings people fun but does nothing to give them a challenge or make them improve as players they'll keep doing it even if it's seen as souring the campaign from other people. It's just how it is.

Then explain to me why the servers reaction to 8-12 people is to run away and avoid them, or talk trash about a playstyle they clearly don't understand. There's no challenge in forum PvP or avoiding a group because they play a way you don't know how to beat. You can't improve as players by resorting to yelling "1 button easymode"( when it is far from that) and avoiding an actual conversation about group effectiveness. I don't know about you, but when I can't figure out how to beat someone, my first reaction isn't to start throwing a tantrum about how its not fair, which seems to be the standard Shor attitude.

After all of the ostracizing and drama over people just existing on a server, my biggest takeaway from Shor so far is that it has a lot of people that would rather complain about something different than ask some very basic questions about mechanics and group playstyles. And its that demographic that gets classes nerfed into the ground.

Yeah people need to jus face them so they can learn how they got outplayed.

Adenoma

@PenguinInACan , it's like you're rational or something. I used to be very active in swimming, up to the Olympic Trials level, and when I lost races to folks or didn't improve my time I didn't throw tantrums and leave. I trained harder, watched films of my strokes, and tried to iron out the errors I was making so that I could improve. Now, I'm not nearly that focused on ESO and don't expect anyone else to do so - but the attitude that you kick and scream when you can't beat something is ridiculous. People aren't even asking questions about group comp, synergy, etc. I'm amazed at how many people just want to bury their head in the sand.

And @Rickter , I've said it before and I'll say it again: TM had no role in the death of Sotha. CN moving to Vivec left a power vacuum. DC no longer camped everyone's gates which let AD pop overwhelm. Because DC had previously held good map position that empowered its pugs to log on and defend in the evenings a little. Once AD regularly began holding the map around 10-11am EST and had emp, there was a 10 day stretch where players sat at DC gate keeps to punish a guild that didn't even play on the server anymore. I can barely recall seeing anyone from TM on that server in the last month that I played in there, let alone a guild group.

technohic

Did at any time while you were swimming; did anyone ever show up in a kayak with a team and tell you how you got outplayed?

DeadlyRecluse

Rickter wrote: »

So DeadlyRecluse and Adenoma you can assure us that <Tertiary Meat> had no hand in killing off Sotha Sil and there is no reason to believe theyd do that to Shor considering what a great place several people worked very hard to create, right?

Because from what ive seen so far from their unapologetic forum presence, and the three nights in a row of trampling on players that cant even defend themselves is telling me and everyone different.

@Rickter,

Yes, I can pretty much guarentee you they had nothign to do with that. The narrative on that is pretty well set: CN zerged it down, they left, AD pugzergs stayed (and Kita was a monster emp at the same time the pugzergs hung around).

TM left very quickly after CN did--I think they were already running in Vivec pretty consistently before CN took off, but I could be wrong.

I really don't have a dog in this fight, I have no particular love for TM, and as far as I know they don't have any for me. I find the destroball playstyle boring, both to play as and to fight against. But I don't really think my opinion matters to anybody, so it's all tears in the rain or whatever.

Rickter

I think the questions you guys are saying we should ask in regards to group comp and how to fight said groups would be rather redundant.

This is a well known plystyle. Its the meta. The counterplay for this playstyle s already known. Adenoma, this isnt about TM being better players - they arent. Ive already seen how they perform “not using the meta”. Its night and day. We had more than a chance and the fights were pretty good. What i had found was The fights werent easy enough for them because theyre all tanks and healers so they switched to easy mode. Im not even making this up. Its exactly what marek said about a page ago. Only he used the phrase “we got bored” lol please.

You said you have no dog in this fight adenoma, but your last 3-4 posts have advocated for TM quite a bit.

In any case im very surpised @NBrookus @Lord_Hev @Montayva @Takuto and @Durham have been entirely absent of this discussion. You guys helped me build Shor, and youve seemed to disappear or turn a blind eye.

Particularly Takuto who felt compelled to speak out against hyper aggressive emp defense yet doesnt seem to have an opinion about this situation.

I totally get, “facing adversity to improve” - lol i feel like weve been doing that this whole time against Qaevir, Animosity, adamant, dreadlord’s numbers etc. Shor has never been an easy server regardless of the absence of an exploitative playstyle. This isnt about that this is about how in order to fight that playstyle, youd have to give up what you love about a server. Which would effectively kill it.

TM are you ready to have that blood on your hands? You ready to be Shor’s CN?

Adenoma

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not advocating for TM. I'm advocating for not just bemoaning the playstyle with a blatant refusal to adapt.

The comparison between TM and CN is incredibly disingenuous.

DeadlyRecluse

Rickter wrote: »

You said you have no dog in this fight adenoma, but your last 3-4 posts have advocated for TM quite a bit.

I thought I used that analogy? If he used it too, I'll amend mine to say "horse in this race." Keeping it fresh.

The problem with the "use it to improve" argument is the AOE stack meta (I'm not even going to call it destrometa, really, because PBAOE in a tight stack on crown has been the dominant meta with different permutations, batnado, impulse train, proxy grab bag, etc etc) has always been the most effecient playstyle. The you can "improve" against it with overwhelming numbers or the same strategy implemented better. That's why it's the meta.

I don't think it's the great satan or anything, but it's not like you can bring out novel strats and hope you suddenly start wiping the floor with AOE ball groups. It's never worked that way (besides a few moments where siege was overtuned enough or when people didn't run as tanky and VD could put some real pressure on the ball group). At most, you can use some novel plays to try and bait out a mistake from the ball group (overextension, leaving a group member behind on a pull, etc.,) but that's putting the onus on them, not you--you aren't really wiping them, they are wiping themselves with mistakes. Again, that's the point of the group comp.

...and as I said earlier, I don't enjoy the playstyle, on either side of it. I l haven't really had fun in Shor for the past 3 nights. But I'd be willing to bet that the forum reaction to TM is fueling their residence more than particularly compelling PvP.

Rickter

Adenoma wrote: »

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not advocating for TM. I'm advocating for not just bemoaning the playstyle with a blatant refusal to adapt.

The comparison between TM and CN is incredibly disingenuous.

I dont know how many times i have to say this: adapting to that particular play style is abandoning what Shor is all about. Its not just about adapting. I run with entry level pvpers. Im not going to force them to go into a magicka meta when they dont want to play like that. Like come on man. Your “learn to deal with it” attitude is te reason vivec is zergballs destroing each other. WE DONT WANT SHOR TO BE VIVEC. Get that through your skull. Right now there s only one group doing that to the server. Is it too much to ask for them to “drop their group builds” and pvp straight up when not on vivec?

Because if they dont, comparing them to CN isnt so disingeneous. Both employed tactics the server cant defend against (CN’s night capping and TM’s destro bombing) and both will drive competition away effectively killing the server.

Same damn thing. SAME.

Adenoma

Shor isn't about anything. It's just PvP.

Rickter

Adenoma wrote: »

Shor isn't about anything. It's just PvP.

Ok adenoma. Sure man. Thanks for your contributions.

Rickter

odd111out wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

Spoon loves you.

Lol whats going on here? I dont know who you are. But ok, i’ll play along:

I wish i could compare my revenge screenshots with you - but i dont think ive ever been killed by you first!

Whoaoohhh! Did i do that right? Im sort of confused.

Vapirko

The big question on my mind is, why does TM have to come to Shor playing like this? Why not stay in/go to Vivec where this kind of thing is a given and used by all sides. The only reason I can think that they’re here is because they’re the only ones doing it so it’s easy AP. If that’s the case then I hate to say it but I have to echo those on here that continuing to voice our opinions on it is only going to encourage them to continue griefing. They’ve already proven that they don’t care if such tactics aren’t wanted in Shor, so all we can do is move on and hope they do as well. I simply refuse to engage them whenever possible, and usually call out in zone for others to ignore them as well unless they want to be farmed, for the sake of any new comers who might get turned off of pvp. That’s all we can really do.

Joshlenoir

PenguinInACan wrote: »

Joshlenoir wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

So @DeadlyRecluse and @Adenoma you can assure us that <Tertiary Meat> had no hand in killing off Sotha Sil and there is no reason to believe theyd do that to Shor considering what a great place several people worked very hard to create, right?

Because from what ive seen so far from their unapologetic forum presence, and the three nights in a row of trampling on players that cant even defend themselves is telling me and everyone different.

Look I'll be honest. Playing PvP and expecting other guilds to keep your well being or interests in mind is going to set you up for failure. In my experience it's safe to assume the guilds / groups you named will do whatever they want that brings them fun (as they should). For some people it's small scale, and for others it's zerging.
I tried PvPing with 3 people I've never played with before on EP today and 100% of the time I fought AD a group of 8 somewhat organized potatoes would rush us with multiple Destro ultimates and earthgore procs to carry them from any pressure. They even went as far as to stare directly at us and light attack until they got ultimate before they decided to engage us just to hit their ultimates and rush us again despite the fact that they had 2x our numbers. It's just how PvP is now adays, it's a 1 button fire and forget form of gameplay/group comp however if it brings people fun but does nothing to give them a challenge or make them improve as players they'll keep doing it even if it's seen as souring the campaign from other people. It's just how it is.

Then explain to me why the servers reaction to 8-12 people is to run away and avoid them, or talk trash about a playstyle they clearly don't understand. There's no challenge in forum PvP or avoiding a group because they play a way you don't know how to beat. You can't improve as players by resorting to yelling "1 button easymode"( when it is far from that) and avoiding an actual conversation about group effectiveness. I don't know about you, but when I can't figure out how to beat someone, my first reaction isn't to start throwing a tantrum about how its not fair, which seems to be the standard Shor attitude.

After all of the ostracizing and drama over people just existing on a server, my biggest takeaway from Shor so far is that it has a lot of people that would rather complain about something different than ask some very basic questions about mechanics and group playstyles. And its that demographic that gets classes nerfed into the ground.

I'm not going to speak for Rickter because I don't know how his group runs or how they operate. As far as things go for me I could care less how you decide to play. I can accept the fact that if I'm going to play with only 4 to 6 people I will instantly be at a disadvantage to large organized groups who rush us in open field, I know how to get better as I've gotten very good at three different classes but there's a point in the game where you have to be realistic about your limitations.
Your group does rely on 1 Button fire and forget mechanics, let's just get that straight. Once again you're free to play however you want but don't try and fool people into thinking otherwise when it's so obvious that the skills, abilities, and gear sets with 0 counterplay are what you primarily use. When people call your group a "Destro ultimate earth Gore train" it is more of a description of your playstyle rather than an insult of it. It seems to work for you so own up to it and accept it. It is not your fault ZoS designed large scale PvP to be so mundane, you're just using the most tactical methods to win against the group's you fight.
Lastly I have no opinion on your presence on shor as I main AD anyways, I was on last night for about two hours on EP the first time in almost two weeks. I've fought against your group many times and I just accept the fact we will usually lose when we are outnumbered 2 to 1 which seems to be usual case. Besides the rare times in cyrodill when you small scale and run less than 7 people.

Joshlenoir

Adenoma wrote: »

And @Rickter , I've said it before and I'll say it again: TM had no role in the death of Sotha. CN moving to Vivec left a power vacuum. DC no longer camped everyone's gates which let AD pop overwhelm. Because DC had previously held good map position that empowered its pugs to log on and defend in the evenings a little. Once AD regularly began holding the map around 10-11am EST and had emp, there was a 10 day stretch where players sat at DC gate keeps to punish a guild that didn't even play on the server anymore. I can barely recall seeing anyone from TM on that server in the last month that I played in there, let alone a guild group.

Aw what about my group and I's "toxicity"? I always loved seeing people beat that dead horse.

Adenoma

I would have mentioned it if it had as significant of an effect.

Joshlenoir

Vapirko wrote: »

The big question on my mind is, why does TM have to come to Shor playing like this? Why not stay in/go to Vivec where this kind of thing is a given and used by all sides. The only reason I can think that they’re here is because they’re the only ones doing it so it’s easy AP. If that’s the case then I hate to say it but I have to echo those on here that continuing to voice our opinions on it is only going to encourage them to continue griefing. They’ve already proven that they don’t care if such tactics aren’t wanted in Shor, so all we can do is move on and hope they do as well. I simply refuse to engage them whenever possible, and usually call out in zone for others to ignore them as well unless they want to be farmed, for the sake of any new comers who might get turned off of pvp. That’s all we can really do.

Let's not turn this forum into a TM bashing party because nobody does that better than me . but in all seriousness nobody gets to decide how TM or any group is allowed to play.
I don't know the group size you run but unless you're getting swarmed by them in cyrodill left right and centre while they have twice your numbers (as is my experience) it's an L2Play issue. People don't want them in cyrodill because they're utilizing easy mechanics better than most large scale guilds and because of this they are beating groups left right and center. The only large scale Guild I've seen that gives them a hard time is Drac, but that's a story for another day. It's not their fault if your group and other pugs engage them, they have to make AP somehow and if you're feeding it to them why should they stop? Complaining about TM being on this server is the easiest way to let people know you aren't in PvP for challenges and to improve, because once you understand how their group runs they aren't difficult to beat in an even numbered scenario. As is the case with most "medium sized" Destro ultimate earth Gore groups.

Valen_Byte

Good read 9/10 need a little more moaning, not enough moaning. That would push it to a 10.


Tip from a vMA stage 4 Pro, Shatter your small group when you see a ball zerg coming at you, make them waste there ults on single target kills.

technohic

Vapirko wrote: »

The big question on my mind is, why does TM have to come to Shor playing like this? Why not stay in/go to Vivec where this kind of thing is a given and used by all sides. The only reason I can think that they’re here is because they’re the only ones doing it so it’s easy AP. If that’s the case then I hate to say it but I have to echo those on here that continuing to voice our opinions on it is only going to encourage them to continue griefing. They’ve already proven that they don’t care if such tactics aren’t wanted in Shor, so all we can do is move on and hope they do as well. I simply refuse to engage them whenever possible, and usually call out in zone for others to ignore them as well unless they want to be farmed, for the sake of any new comers who might get turned off of pvp. That’s all we can really do.

From running into Dracarys on Vivec and now seeing them; I have my guesses. Dracarys seemed to stay tighter where I see this group with a tail. I imagine head to head against other groups hasn’t been fun for them. Maybe it got “boring”

PenguinInACan

technohic wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The big question on my mind is, why does TM have to come to Shor playing like this? Why not stay in/go to Vivec where this kind of thing is a given and used by all sides. The only reason I can think that they’re here is because they’re the only ones doing it so it’s easy AP. If that’s the case then I hate to say it but I have to echo those on here that continuing to voice our opinions on it is only going to encourage them to continue griefing. They’ve already proven that they don’t care if such tactics aren’t wanted in Shor, so all we can do is move on and hope they do as well. I simply refuse to engage them whenever possible, and usually call out in zone for others to ignore them as well unless they want to be farmed, for the sake of any new comers who might get turned off of pvp. That’s all we can really do.

From running into Dracarys on Vivec and now seeing them; I have my guesses. Dracarys seemed to stay tighter where I see this group with a tail. I imagine head to head against other groups hasn’t been fun for them. Maybe it got “boring”

Our organization is still being worked on as we don't really have a core group of consistent members. So often times we'll have 2-3 people who are having to play a different role and character to keep the group synergy going. This ends up with less tight groups and slower movements and reactions.

As for fighting other ball groups on vivec; we started "playing the meta" to specifically fight those ball groups. The only reason we were playing on Shor in the first place is because we normally don't get a good group comp until later in the night. Both in numbers and build diversity. And Shor is a lot of fun for groups in the 8-10 player range during primetimes. Head to Head against any other group is fun, whether we win or lose. There's nothing boring about figuring out your weaknesses by failing.

Valen_Byte

@Joshlenoir

As far as things go for me I could COULDN'T care less how you decide to play. I

This is one of those phrases that almost everyone gets wrong, and it irritates me so do be more careful in the future.

Saying "I could care less" literally means that you COULD care less than you do. Therefore, you care.

The correct way to state this phrase is: "I could NOT care less" meaning you care at the lowest level and could not possibly care any less.

Thank you and do try to get this simple phrase right in the future.

Joshlenoir

Valen_Byte wrote: »

@Joshlenoir

As far as things go for me I could COULDN'T care less how you decide to play. I

This is one of those phrases that almost everyone gets wrong, and it irritates me so do be more careful in the future.

Saying "I could care less" literally means that you COULD care less than you do. Therefore, you care.

The correct way to state this phrase is: "I could NOT care less" meaning you care at the lowest level and could not possibly care any less.

Thank you and do try to get this simple phrase right in the future.

I wrote that from my phone, in my bed, after I woke up, cut me some slack man.

Valen_Byte

L2wakeup before posting. I recommend a cup of coffee first. I usually give myself until the halfway point on my mug before posting. Please do try to be more careful in the future. Remember, I am a vMA stage 4 Pro just doing my part to keep small scale pvforum clean and fun.

technohic

PenguinInACan wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The big question on my mind is, why does TM have to come to Shor playing like this? Why not stay in/go to Vivec where this kind of thing is a given and used by all sides. The only reason I can think that they’re here is because they’re the only ones doing it so it’s easy AP. If that’s the case then I hate to say it but I have to echo those on here that continuing to voice our opinions on it is only going to encourage them to continue griefing. They’ve already proven that they don’t care if such tactics aren’t wanted in Shor, so all we can do is move on and hope they do as well. I simply refuse to engage them whenever possible, and usually call out in zone for others to ignore them as well unless they want to be farmed, for the sake of any new comers who might get turned off of pvp. That’s all we can really do.

From running into Dracarys on Vivec and now seeing them; I have my guesses. Dracarys seemed to stay tighter where I see this group with a tail. I imagine head to head against other groups hasn’t been fun for them. Maybe it got “boring”

Our organization is still being worked on as we don't really have a core group of consistent members. So often times we'll have 2-3 people who are having to play a different role and character to keep the group synergy going. This ends up with less tight groups and slower movements and reactions.

As for fighting other ball groups on vivec; we started "playing the meta" to specifically fight those ball groups. The only reason we were playing on Shor in the first place is because we normally don't get a good group comp until later in the night. Both in numbers and build diversity. And Shor is a lot of fun for groups in the 8-10 player range during primetimes. Head to Head against any other group is fun, whether we win or lose. There's nothing boring about figuring out your weaknesses by failing.

So you come here when you don’t have the necessary comp yet wonder why people suggest the strategy of just not fighting you? Aren’t you doing the same thing?

Rickter

<Tertiary Meat> = <Chuck Norris>

Both utilize tactics the server cant defend against.

Both unapologetically dismiss server health, concerns or respect.

Both are willing and enthusiastic about running down/off competition.

Both have stated that if “you dont like it, git gud”.

The End.

PenguinInACan

technohic wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The big question on my mind is, why does TM have to come to Shor playing like this? Why not stay in/go to Vivec where this kind of thing is a given and used by all sides. The only reason I can think that they’re here is because they’re the only ones doing it so it’s easy AP. If that’s the case then I hate to say it but I have to echo those on here that continuing to voice our opinions on it is only going to encourage them to continue griefing. They’ve already proven that they don’t care if such tactics aren’t wanted in Shor, so all we can do is move on and hope they do as well. I simply refuse to engage them whenever possible, and usually call out in zone for others to ignore them as well unless they want to be farmed, for the sake of any new comers who might get turned off of pvp. That’s all we can really do.

From running into Dracarys on Vivec and now seeing them; I have my guesses. Dracarys seemed to stay tighter where I see this group with a tail. I imagine head to head against other groups hasn’t been fun for them. Maybe it got “boring”

Our organization is still being worked on as we don't really have a core group of consistent members. So often times we'll have 2-3 people who are having to play a different role and character to keep the group synergy going. This ends up with less tight groups and slower movements and reactions.

As for fighting other ball groups on vivec; we started "playing the meta" to specifically fight those ball groups. The only reason we were playing on Shor in the first place is because we normally don't get a good group comp until later in the night. Both in numbers and build diversity. And Shor is a lot of fun for groups in the 8-10 player range during primetimes. Head to Head against any other group is fun, whether we win or lose. There's nothing boring about figuring out your weaknesses by failing.

So you come here when you don’t have the necessary comp yet wonder why people suggest the strategy of just not fighting you? Aren’t you doing the same thing?

Before last week, we had only come to Shor once in the last few months. We started on Vivec regardless of group comp and size. I like to play on Shor solo, and I suggested we play on Shor when the group is forming up because I enjoy playing there. We're going to fight someone regardless of our group comp and size. There are many times when we push into something that we would have a very small chance of winning because of size etc, but we do it anyway because that's how you challenge yourself.

I've said over and over that we have played on Shor recently because there is less lag, its more laid back, there isn't a giant zerg mindlessly running in a line, and the people are generally very nice and fun to fight. Playing on the same server, against the same people, with the same lag and zergs every night is a very good way to get burned out.

Rickter

I bet you are laid back. Hitting R and running through groups that dont defend themselves must be a relaxing change of pace for you.

Munavar

Rickter, there you go with more public innuendos.

Rest assured that TM had little to nothing to do with the demise of Sotha Sil. There are numerous Sotha Sil threads for your historical reading enjoyment.

From an AD perspective, the state of Sotha Sil is largely DC’s doing.

For months on end…
EP did not have a large presence and would do ‘EP things’.
There was DC ‘night capping’ activities and ‘brutal’ farming during the morning hours.
In the afternoon hours, sometimes (and sometimes not) the home keeps would be recaptured.
In the evening, the DC resistance would wilt (they knew that a ‘night cap’ was going to happen in a few hours).

Being on defense nearly every night, DC organically (and at times not so organically) faction stacked. This only led to AD stacking.
The next is only hearsay, there was a political divide with the DC guilds.
The AD masses did not break up and vented the ‘collective’ frustration on the remaining DC.
The DC left. (TM was on DC for a few nights during this time)
The AD started the cycle that DC founded and the server turned into an AD wasteland.

Recently, an EP guild has been getting emperor ‘early’ and defending during their group’s run time.

technohic

PenguinInACan wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The big question on my mind is, why does TM have to come to Shor playing like this? Why not stay in/go to Vivec where this kind of thing is a given and used by all sides. The only reason I can think that they’re here is because they’re the only ones doing it so it’s easy AP. If that’s the case then I hate to say it but I have to echo those on here that continuing to voice our opinions on it is only going to encourage them to continue griefing. They’ve already proven that they don’t care if such tactics aren’t wanted in Shor, so all we can do is move on and hope they do as well. I simply refuse to engage them whenever possible, and usually call out in zone for others to ignore them as well unless they want to be farmed, for the sake of any new comers who might get turned off of pvp. That’s all we can really do.

From running into Dracarys on Vivec and now seeing them; I have my guesses. Dracarys seemed to stay tighter where I see this group with a tail. I imagine head to head against other groups hasn’t been fun for them. Maybe it got “boring”

Our organization is still being worked on as we don't really have a core group of consistent members. So often times we'll have 2-3 people who are having to play a different role and character to keep the group synergy going. This ends up with less tight groups and slower movements and reactions.

As for fighting other ball groups on vivec; we started "playing the meta" to specifically fight those ball groups. The only reason we were playing on Shor in the first place is because we normally don't get a good group comp until later in the night. Both in numbers and build diversity. And Shor is a lot of fun for groups in the 8-10 player range during primetimes. Head to Head against any other group is fun, whether we win or lose. There's nothing boring about figuring out your weaknesses by failing.

So you come here when you don’t have the necessary comp yet wonder why people suggest the strategy of just not fighting you? Aren’t you doing the same thing?

Before last week, we had only come to Shor once in the last few months. We started on Vivec regardless of group comp and size. I like to play on Shor solo, and I suggested we play on Shor when the group is forming up because I enjoy playing there. We're going to fight someone regardless of our group comp and size. There are many times when we push into something that we would have a very small chance of winning because of size etc, but we do it anyway because that's how you challenge yourself.

I've said over and over that we have played on Shor recently because there is less lag, its more laid back, there isn't a giant zerg mindlessly running in a line, and the people are generally very nice and fun to fight. Playing on the same server, against the same people, with the same lag and zergs every night is a very good way to get burned out.

I get the draw. It can be a fun place; but you do realize the reasons you listed for it has happened due to the lack of play style you’re now bringing to it, right? You even are suggesting that people learn to fight against it which means to match it or Zerg and the lag that comes with it.


Do what you want. My guild even had one of its prominent members start a sister guild to gather players for the same thing you guys are doing in Vivec and that’s fine; but don’t blame people who wanted something different and came here much for the same reason you did; if they don’t get on board with feeding the AP and fight elsewhere.

PenguinInACan

technohic wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The big question on my mind is, why does TM have to come to Shor playing like this? Why not stay in/go to Vivec where this kind of thing is a given and used by all sides. The only reason I can think that they’re here is because they’re the only ones doing it so it’s easy AP. If that’s the case then I hate to say it but I have to echo those on here that continuing to voice our opinions on it is only going to encourage them to continue griefing. They’ve already proven that they don’t care if such tactics aren’t wanted in Shor, so all we can do is move on and hope they do as well. I simply refuse to engage them whenever possible, and usually call out in zone for others to ignore them as well unless they want to be farmed, for the sake of any new comers who might get turned off of pvp. That’s all we can really do.

From running into Dracarys on Vivec and now seeing them; I have my guesses. Dracarys seemed to stay tighter where I see this group with a tail. I imagine head to head against other groups hasn’t been fun for them. Maybe it got “boring”

Our organization is still being worked on as we don't really have a core group of consistent members. So often times we'll have 2-3 people who are having to play a different role and character to keep the group synergy going. This ends up with less tight groups and slower movements and reactions.

As for fighting other ball groups on vivec; we started "playing the meta" to specifically fight those ball groups. The only reason we were playing on Shor in the first place is because we normally don't get a good group comp until later in the night. Both in numbers and build diversity. And Shor is a lot of fun for groups in the 8-10 player range during primetimes. Head to Head against any other group is fun, whether we win or lose. There's nothing boring about figuring out your weaknesses by failing.

So you come here when you don’t have the necessary comp yet wonder why people suggest the strategy of just not fighting you? Aren’t you doing the same thing?

Before last week, we had only come to Shor once in the last few months. We started on Vivec regardless of group comp and size. I like to play on Shor solo, and I suggested we play on Shor when the group is forming up because I enjoy playing there. We're going to fight someone regardless of our group comp and size. There are many times when we push into something that we would have a very small chance of winning because of size etc, but we do it anyway because that's how you challenge yourself.

I've said over and over that we have played on Shor recently because there is less lag, its more laid back, there isn't a giant zerg mindlessly running in a line, and the people are generally very nice and fun to fight. Playing on the same server, against the same people, with the same lag and zergs every night is a very good way to get burned out.

I get the draw. It can be a fun place; but you do realize the reasons you listed for it has happened due to the lack of play style you’re now bringing to it, right? You even are suggesting that people learn to fight against it which means to match it or Zerg and the lag that comes with it.


Do what you want. My guild even had one of its prominent members start a sister guild to gather players for the same thing you guys are doing in Vivec and that’s fine; but don’t blame people who wanted something different and came here much for the same reason you did; if they don’t get on board with feeding the AP and fight elsewhere.

I am well aware the current meta is the least fun meta to deal with. I wish it weren't as strong as it is, but it has other counters that don't make it necessary that people run the same way/builds. A few well placed stam bursts of dps are very strong against the playstyle. Baiting the earthgores in order to throw a negate on the healers to open up the bombers to dps is effective. Utilizing snares and cc's and healing debuffs are very useful for splitting the group and causing confusion.

Small things like coordinating ults, calling targets, learning the tells of an incoming bomb and how to avoid it, noticing when the earthgores are on CD, knowing how to read the inc damage potential and when you're being kited so you can shift control of the fight away from the enemy group. All of these things can mean a win against any group, and none of them require running specific group builds to work. With everything there is going to be an ideal way to do it, with specific builds and min-maxed composition. But that doesn't mean the non meta group is completely defenseless and unable to counter.