The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHING***Interview With Miat*** Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A
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Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s technically not cheating; but it should be is basically the sum of miats.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos4 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Like a sad, lonely being that cannot be honest even in a video game, so he cheats.
There are "lonely being that cheats in videogame" accents? That´s new to me
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭it does show info, which should not be visible - it is cheating - as easy as that!8 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Like a sad, lonely being that cannot be honest even in a video game, so he cheats.
There are "lonely being that cheats in videogame" accents? That´s new to me
Are you triggered because you sound similar
8 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Man I'm glad I'm on Xbox and have none of this crap.
Add on = cheating in general IMO, but this one is off the chart its stupid its allowed.
Agree. So much for PC master race! We console plebs have to just, you know, learn to play the damn game......
Edited by Hallothiel on October 16, 2017 6:48PM8 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Shardan4968 wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »I don't like Miat's addon. Not because I think it's cheating but because I believe it gives the player using it an advantage over one that isn't using it. I don't believe 3rd party addons/programs should give players advantages (especially in PvP).
Isn't it definition of cheating? I believe that ZOS misundersdand something.
Can only be cheating if the purveyors (ZOS) of the game say it is. Whether they officially say it in the forums, or in the terms of service. Miat’s addon in particular was apparently reviewed by ZOS sometime last year I think. There is no infraction of the rules by using Miat’s addon as far as I know.
I still believe (not sure how anyone can argue otherwise) that Miat’s addon gives the player using it an advantage over someone not using it. It’s like professional sports. There are a lot of rules in the books regarding PED and steroid use. You use it you are cheating and there are consequences. In ESO you can be on juice and TRT but not be breaking any rules.
ZOS never came out and said if miats add-on was cheating or not. They said they were looking into it, then never mentioned it again. ZOS did change the API that affected the add-on, but never gave it an official pass.
The problem here, is that ZOS is terrible at communicating what is acceptable and what isn't. They really don't want to talk about cheating, especially when there is no easy fix. ZOS could change the API to completely nullify this add-on, but that would affect lots if not most all other add-ons, creating even more disruption.
So it really looks like ZOS is just going to take half steps, and hope for the best. Leaving people with an attitude of "if I can get away with it, then it's not cheating".
You just explained it all. It’s simple to me. If ZOS is allowing it, no matter how they say it, can’t in actuality be called cheating.
Edit: You can’t have disciplinary action levied upon you simply for using Miat’s addon.Edited by Publius_Scipio on October 16, 2017 9:34AM1 -
Egonieser✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cheating? No. It's not. Cheating is using something that is NOT allowed. Addons and UI elements are allowed thus not cheating.
Blame ZoS, and rightfully so, for allowing certain things to be used in addons not the people who utilize the tools GIVEN to them.Sometimes, I dream about...cheese...
Dermont - v16 Pompous Altmer Sorcerer (With a very arrogant face!)
Egonieser - v16 Nord Stamina Dragonborn Wannabe
Endoly - v16 Tiny Redguard Sharpened MaceBlade
Egosalina - v16 Breton Cheesus Beam Specialist
Egowen - v16 Dunmer Whipping Expert (Riding crops eluded her)
(Yes, I had to grind all these to v16)
Akamanakh - lvl 22 Khajiit GankBlade (Inspired by Top Cat)
Targos Icewind - lvl 34 Imperial (Future) Jabplar
(CP 830+)
PC - EU5 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How about honorable face to face fighting?
I don't use stealth at all on my magDK because I like to face my opponents in honorable fights without any stealth shiet. This way I don't care if my opponent uses the addon or not because it gives him no advantage over me at all.
Face your opponents with pride and honor. The addon will not bother you then.
To add, everybody should make their opinion on the addon.
I am magDK with no addon and I fight a player with the addon. He has no advantage over me at all because I don't cowardly start from stealth. So I can't call him cheater for anything because in this case the addon doesn't do anything useful for the user.
So it's not cheating IMO, but that's just my opinion.Edited by Olupajmibanan on October 16, 2017 10:21AM3 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oh would you look at that, majority of people here still see it as cheating. What a surprise.
Hope ZoS still restricts the api to the point where add ons like this can not exist.5 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »If you Have any Question for Miat leave them in the comments of the video.
https://youtu.be/fOVgRcfoes0
Doesn't matter if it is cheating or not. If you play PvP it is absolutely necessary to use macros and addons in order to have an even playing field.
One of my favorites is charge--> light attack --> Upercut ---> (ani cancel) Reverse Slice x 2 (using macro slice) BOOM dead in 3 seconds or less
Its only essential because people use them, if they werent allowed then it would be an even playing field universaly.2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This thread defines the term “first world problems”. I’m sick and tired of these “cheater” posts.
I have been playing this game since the beta. I have logged more online hours than I’m prepared to post (you know..... in case my wife sees it), but I’m pretty clear that I have logged more hours than the vast majority of players. I have completed every single quest several times across about 16 alts and four accounts, spent huge amounts of time in PVP in Cyrodiil and in the Imperial City and Sewers, and I farm mats and resources for some pretty major trade.
I can safely say that not once - not one single time - have I been bothered by a bot, a Zerg, an add on user, a gold seller, or any so-called “cheat”. That’s not to say I haven’t seen all of the above, but as a grown-up I know when to say “it’s a game” and just move on. Experience not ruined.
Perhaps if you all spent more time just playing the game than whining like spoilt schoolgirls on these forums, you’d have a better time in Tamriel.
Pretty sure the people content with cheating are the problem, not the people hoping for a product they pay for to function without being cheated by outside add ons.3 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Miat's addon is NOT cheating. ZOS is the league here, ZOS are the refs, ZOS sets the rules. If Miat's addon is allowed with ZOS's blessing, then it can in no way be cheating. Those that are calling it cheating are misunderstanding.
I don't like Miat's addon. Not because I think it's cheating but because I believe it gives the player using it an advantage over one that isn't using it. I don't believe 3rd party addons/programs should give players advantages (especially in PvP). I just don't see how using it can be considered not being given an advantage. First, all addons are created for some benefit, some advantage to using it. No one uses addons that hinder their play or take away from the game. Miat's (specifically for the purpose of PvP) gives the player a crystal clear cue of an incoming projectile even before the projectile (poison injection, crystal frag, etc) has been fired off. The addon really diminishes the need for awareness in certain (but not few) situations. A player not using the addon must rely on a greater amount of awareness. Also, there was a time when Miat's addon was alerting the player using it of enemies in stealth around him/her, without their knowledge that they were known to be in the area.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is just mine.
Edit: I definitely think ZOS seriously needs to revisit all the API and make some decisions. I always say this when in these threads but I will say it again. Way back when, back when Mr. Paul Sage (Tamriel still remembers you old friend!) called for all API to be closed off to players.... He understood, he knew what would/could happen down the road. I think that says a lot about the whole topic of addons and whatever else may be out there.
Pretty much matches my view entirely.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Miat's addon is NOT cheating. ZOS is the league here, ZOS are the refs, ZOS sets the rules. If Miat's addon is allowed with ZOS's blessing, then it can in no way be cheating. Those that are calling it cheating are misunderstanding.
I don't like Miat's addon. Not because I think it's cheating but because I believe it gives the player using it an advantage over one that isn't using it. I don't believe 3rd party addons/programs should give players advantages (especially in PvP). I just don't see how using it can be considered not being given an advantage. First, all addons are created for some benefit, some advantage to using it. No one uses addons that hinder their play or take away from the game. Miat's (specifically for the purpose of PvP) gives the player a crystal clear cue of an incoming projectile even before the projectile (poison injection, crystal frag, etc) has been fired off. The addon really diminishes the need for awareness in certain (but not few) situations. A player not using the addon must rely on a greater amount of awareness. Also, there was a time when Miat's addon was alerting the player using it of enemies in stealth around him/her, without their knowledge that they were known to be in the area.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is just mine.
Edit: I definitely think ZOS seriously needs to revisit all the API and make some decisions. I always say this when in these threads but I will say it again. Way back when, back when Mr. Paul Sage (Tamriel still remembers you old friend!) called for all API to be closed off to players.... He understood, he knew what would/could happen down the road. I think that says a lot about the whole topic of addons and whatever else may be out there.
Except, it was not allowed with their blessing, so......0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭AzraelKrieg wrote: »
Anyone who´s playstyle aims to kill opponents without chance to fight back is aswell - so what´s the point you´re trying to make?
Oh look, its the guy who doesnt know about the counters to stealth. Fancy that.8 -
eso_nya✭✭✭✭✭
✭From december 2016.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308947/miats-pvp-alerts/p4ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon was brought to our attention earlier in the week, and we’ve been running some internal tests on it to gauge functionality and impact. We are still evaluating this addon, and may make changes to the game’s API as a result. Here’s an explanation of how it works, and what it does and doesn’t do:
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon is built upon actions done by players that the combat log records. This includes sprinting, casting an ability, weapon swapping, drinking a potion, stealthing, etc. If a player executes any of those actions, basic messages are sent to the server and clients. This mod hooks into those notifications and filters them to give information about who is in the area. That info is then turned into either a KOS list determined by the player, a stealthier list, or simply an incremental value of players in the area (all are a rough estimation.)
The KOS list, specifically, is simply another layer on top of the above options, where the addon looks for specific players that you can choose to add to a list. When those players perform an action within your existing area of detection, you will be notified that they are in the area. You are not provided info on exactly where they are. Here are a few specific examples:- If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
- If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
- If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).
Lastly this addon adds a kill spam list which shows you when someone has died in your existing area of detection, and to what ability. When you first get these messages, it simply says “Someone has died to Dark Flare.” When you start to get more information on the players around you, it adds that player name to the Saved Variables file for PVPAlerts.lua, then starts to add that information into your UI while playing.
Note that in all the above examples, you are not notified of exactly where the player is. This addon does not add a little blip to your map or compass, and does not give you an overlay that points out specifically where players are. This addon is not radar, a Doppler, or any other means of giving away another player’s exact position.
We want to thank everyone for sharing your concerns with us about this addon.ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
Are we allowed to use this addon until you decide upon a judgement?
At this time, we will not be taking action on accounts using this addon.2 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not worth watching. I already know the add on IS cheating.
Ridiculous video. Ban the add on pls.11 -
Ulfgarde✭✭✭✭✭Miat's is basically a fault of ESO's API, simple as that. Is it outright cheating? No, the circumstances of cheating don't apply. Cheating implies 3rd party programs, where factors are changed to a person's fitting. The purpose of Miat's - to make CCs and stealth easier to counter - is what makes it so frustrating that it gives such an advantage compared to not having it.
If we were to make generalizations, we could say that most high damage or effective CCs are telegraphed. Sure, many of them aren't, but for sake of argument, they were. When you're fighting in any PvP situation, the thing you want to avoid is high damage followed by CC. Why? A good player will utilize CCs for a setup, often to combo them down with some array of attacks. Now, since most CCs have cooldowns in like every MMO, this means, in ESO, where we have no cooldowns on CC, except for CC immunity, avoiding CC for the sake of defense becomes much more valuable. This is precisely why Miat's is such a problem. Because it gives too much of an advantage for people to roll dodge and block when the addon telling them, rather than using the environment, visual and auditory cues, and, most importantly, timing to determine this. It's taking gamesense - an acquired set of skills you develop from experience that influence factors like positioning, timing, etc. - and safely vending them to new players with little to no acquired experience.
Again, it's not cheating, but it's simply a feature permitted by ZOS, which completely undermines good players from having an implicit advantage over bad players.
A lot of people are attacking Miat simply for developing the addon. The fact that he developed it isn't a problem; the fact that ZOS continues to allow it and not restrict the API from these issues is a problem. He even mentions this in the stream, but I'm quite sure a lot of people find it easier to rush to conclusions than do so.Very athletic eso player
PC EU6 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭From a technical standpoint the addon is not cheating. It is simply showing information to the player that is freely available through the API. ZoS haven't come out and said that it breaks the terms of service, or fixed the API to prevent addons exploiting the way it works.
However, I will say it goes against the spirit of fair play.
Just because something isn't breaking the rules, doesn't mean you should do it. Miat's addon to me is in that vein. It is a crutch for people who can't develop game sense for themselves. It differs from buff tracker addons in the sense that it is effectively playing the game for you.
Miat's in that sense is a bit like writing a macro to run your rotation, or pull of your burst combo.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds3 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭The last topic:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374249/zenimax-restrict-your-api#latest
9,500 views, many posts and ZoS shut it down. Most players under the opinion in there Miatts addon is cheating, ZoS never commented as they are incapable of addressing the API seriously and/or making a level playing field in PvP.
Miatts addon was also functioning with more of an advantage before ZoS restricted the API, which should have been done. Time for it to happen again.4 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
At this time, is what was said, and more recently they have said they are looking into it again, so stop posting out of date information.3 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's pretty short and sweet:- If you can directly, effectively, and reliably reproduce what the addon does for you, but manually (yourself), within the confines of the game engine, I'd say it's fair game.
- If you cannot, then it provides an extreme advantage. I think we all know where this one stands.
Provide a legit video of someone being as effective without the addon as with, without any third party assistance, and I'm pretty sure everyone will ease back some.
If it's in use to counter other in-game issues, then it's the in-game issues that should be fixed.
So, the closest to a neutral answer I can offer for this type of thing is that the need for this type of addon (argue it whichever direction you like) should not exist.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS6 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »How about honorable face to face fighting?
I don't use stealth at all on my magDK because I like to face my opponents in honorable fights without any stealth shiet. This way I don't care if my opponent uses the addon or not because it gives him no advantage over me at all.
Face your opponents with pride and honor. The addon will not bother you then.
So, you would say it is honorable to use cheats and exploits such as this addon so classes that rely on stealth would face you in uneven combat? Yeah.
Each class have its own capabilities.
DKs are tanky and have DoTs, with ultimate as primary way to sustain in battle.
Wardens are tanky and have "pets" for sustain and burst, with self heals from nature.
Templars are tanky and have purges, heals and similar.
Sorcerers have AoE, superior mobility and bunch of other bs.
NBs have stealth as both defensive and offensive tool, and entire class is created to rely on stealth.
And now you say that an addon that exists to remove their main attack/defensive tools is what you define as honorable?
If developers wanted us to have "third eye" or similar bs, this would be integrated into the game. There are skills, potions, sets that provide greater awareness against stealthed enemies, but an addon that inform you about incoming attacks that you would not be aware off? Cheating bs addon, 3rd wheel software, scrub tier bs.5 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Miat's addon is NOT cheating. ZOS is the league here, ZOS are the refs, ZOS sets the rules. If Miat's addon is allowed with ZOS's blessing, then it can in no way be cheating. Those that are calling it cheating are misunderstanding.
I don't like Miat's addon. Not because I think it's cheating but because I believe it gives the player using it an advantage over one that isn't using it. I don't believe 3rd party addons/programs should give players advantages (especially in PvP). I just don't see how using it can be considered not being given an advantage. First, all addons are created for some benefit, some advantage to using it. No one uses addons that hinder their play or take away from the game. Miat's (specifically for the purpose of PvP) gives the player a crystal clear cue of an incoming projectile even before the projectile (poison injection, crystal frag, etc) has been fired off. The addon really diminishes the need for awareness in certain (but not few) situations. A player not using the addon must rely on a greater amount of awareness. Also, there was a time when Miat's addon was alerting the player using it of enemies in stealth around him/her, without their knowledge that they were known to be in the area.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is just mine.
Edit: I definitely think ZOS seriously needs to revisit all the API and make some decisions. I always say this when in these threads but I will say it again. Way back when, back when Mr. Paul Sage (Tamriel still remembers you old friend!) called for all API to be closed off to players.... He understood, he knew what would/could happen down the road. I think that says a lot about the whole topic of addons and whatever else may be out there.
Except, it was not allowed with their blessing, so......
ZOS has publicly allowed Miat's addon as "ok". You cannot have disciplinary action levied upon you for using it. I don't like the addon, I have said that many times. But the truth is for now ZOS has allowed it.0 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
It may be a fact that ZOS's official stance is that it's not cheating, but that does not change the actual reality that it is, in fact cheating.
Just so you know an official stance is actually a meaningless thing and usually has nothing to do with the truth.
The capability of the add on is far beyond what was intended with the game, so claiming it is cheating is entirely appropriate.
Personally, I would like to see it removed from the game altogether.6
This discussion has been closed.